US Soldier Uses the Quran for Target Practice

Originally posted by proteus33
its a flippin book get over it already. its not like its the last copy. if that soldier was trying to make a point by doing this shouldn't his right to express himself be protected under first amendment. i do understand we are over there illegally to limit oil production to keep profits high for oil companies. and no i am not a muslim hater. but its a book last year they wanted to kill a teacher because she picked up a klids backpack that contained supposedly a quran. in my opinion to many people bend over backwards trying to appease muslims. true soldier had poor taste in targets but at least he wasn't using iraqi civilians

If this occurred in the states I would agree about their right to do as they please as an individual who wishes to express themselves.

That being said.. those with your similar view have forgotten one thing. That soldier is not in the US. All US laws and rights end at the border or on US soil. All opinions and views of the US means squat when in another sovereign country.

That soldier violated and insulted the people in that particular country and those who find that book to be of value spiritually. Do not push, throw or force your laws and views in a location that does not have, nor needs to see your laws and rights as theirs.

Stop imposing your views on others who views are different. Just because a hand full of US puppets in another country cried for help does not mean the whole invited you.

When someone fights for a cause.. for what ever cause.. there is always an outcome. Just because one person does not see or understand that cause does not make it any less valuable for another.

Those like you need a face to focus all your energy to justify war just to make yourself comfortable to know you have a place on this world. Its so much easier to destroy then build...

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Folks over there are blowing up their own mosques.

Why should they care that we are shooting a book?

This makes no sense to me. I would not demand vengenance if you shot the bible, but I might take issue with you if you blew up the house of god.

Not to mention burning each other alive.

www.usatoday.com...
www.cbsnews.com...
www.usatoday.com...

In the USA Today story here, six men were in Friday prayer when they were dragged outside, doused with kerosene, and burnt alive at the front door of their very own mosque. Religion of peace my A$$.

This is why religion is evil. Religion will always inevitably result in death.

-ChriS

[edit on 19-5-2008 by BlasteR]

I'm offended when they burn effigies of our leaders as well as call out for the death of all infidels. E.g. Me, if I had a copy I’d be wiping my arse on it right now, Hypocrisy, it seems OK to defile other religions on TV, comics, films, cartoons but woo betide it happen to the Islamics. They should have the same rights and respect as the other religions which now a days appears to be *SNIP*. At least other religions "appear" to respect Islam; the same can not be said in reverse.


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[edit on 19-5-2008 by MemoryShock]

Originally posted by elgoog
No one has mentioned that they quoted the quran when they used the world trade centers for target practice.


Instead of punshing that soldier, the should bootstrap him into a general officers job and let him take over, at least he has the right idea.



~elgoog~

Yeaaaaah..... about that. So it'd be okay if anyone from any country ravaged during the Crusades came and shot at you, a Christian, because the Crusades were launched as Christian military efforts? I think we'd be a little overwhelmed here in the West if everyone thought the way you did.

reply to post by WickedStar


I do understand what you are saying. It is THEIR superstition, and they are fanatic about their superstitions and we should respect THEIR superstitions.

The soldier made a bad choice on what to use as a target, and it obviously doesn't help us with their opinion of us over there when things like this happen. It wasn't a very good P.R. stunt, that's for sure.

But it IS just their superstition.

I was wondering, since you studied religions, if it said anywhere in the Q'ran that people should be punished and/or killed for destroying a copy of the Q'ran?

And if not, how do they rationalize such an outrage if Muhammed doesn't say there should be.

Just wondering!

[edit on 5/19/2008 by Keyhole]

Originally posted by spitefulgod
I'm offended when they burn effigies of our leaders as well as call out for the death of all infidels. E.g. Me, if I had a copy I’d be wiping my arse on it right now, Hypocrisy, it seems OK to defile other religions on TV, comics, films, cartoons but woo betide it happen to the Islamics. They should have the same rights and respect as the other religions which now a days appears to be # all. At least other religions "appear" to respect Islam; the same can not be said in reverse.

Hypocrites, I'll never take Islam seriously, they can piss off and take it out on their wives, if I had any ASCII art skills I'd show a nice depiction of Jesus #ing prophet Mohamed in the ass with the words ***OWNED*** above it.

Thank you very much!! I feel the same way!! They demand respect for their religion yet go around chopping peoples heads off and blowing them up if they don't believe the same as they do. Yeah that'll get my respect everytime.

reply to post by Keyhole


Keyhole,
I was not a scholar of Islam. I studied the similarities/differences of the worlds religions and my focus was in "primitive" early religious economies. While I am familiar with the Qu'ran, I can't speak as to whether or not it speaks directly about how one should be delt with who defiles it. However, if Surah 56 gives you any indication as to how they feel about the Qu'ran being the word of God:

75. Furthermore I call to witness the setting of the Stars -
76. And that is indeed a might adjuration if ye but knew
77. That this is indeed a Qu'ran most honourable,
78. In a Book well-guarded,
79. Which non shall tough but those who are clean:
80. A Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds.

it becomes evident that even the act of touching it is of ritual of high significance. Sorry I couldn't answer your question more throughly.

reply to post by Lone Star Patriot


They expect us to respect their religion when they show no outrage on MUSLIM terrorists and insurgents killing Americans from mosques. Does the Koran mentioned anything about keeping weapons in mosques?

What about the seizure of Mecca back in 1979? Where was the outrage?

Originally posted by '___'eviant

Originally posted by elgoog
No one has mentioned that they quoted the quran when they used the world trade centers for target practice.


Instead of punshing that soldier, the should bootstrap him into a general officers job and let him take over, at least he has the right idea.



~elgoog~

Yeaaaaah..... about that. So it'd be okay if anyone from any country ravaged during the Crusades came and shot at you, a Christian, because the Crusades were launched as Christian military efforts? I think we'd be a little overwhelmed here in the West if everyone thought the way you did.

okay never mind, im sorry to have offended you mr first amendment.
its perfectly ok that the quran quoting asswipes took out 3000 americans, while singing chapters from their 'peaceful holy book' we wouldn't want to offend them would we ?

hold people responsible for their actions.
the muslim extremists wanted a war, and becuase of handholders like you, we can't give them one.

if i was president, on sep 12 2001, half of the arab world would have been a hot nuke zone, and i would have told the other half to knock their $#)$ off or i'd come back and finish the job.

no need for a 10 billion dollar for profit war.


~elgoog~

It is a book.

I went to school with stoners who used to use pages of bibles to roll joints . . .

I agree that we need to stop being so apologetic for everything. The rest of the world needs to grow some thicker skin. Seriously.

Perhaps where and when he did it was an issue.

But if one were to film him in Los Angeles doing the same thing, the outrage would be the same.

GET OVER IT!

Let me help you people here understand something, I'll put it as simply as is humanly possible:

Iraq = Iraqi Laws & Customs

America = American Laws & Customs

American in Iraq? = Iraqi Laws & Customs

Iraqi in America = American Laws & Customs

Say whatever the hell you want about Islam, the Quran, Muhammed, religious freedom, freedom of speech, blah, blah, more Hawkish nonsense, etc...

None of that stands up to scrutiny IN IRAQ. Where this happened. Where the soldier in question discharged his rifle at a Quran, IN IRAQ.

Where he is bound by Iraqi law, but not only that the Iraqi way of life and all that it entails. Where it is most certainly prohibited to harm or damage ANY Quran.

If this happened in New York, I would say well he's got no recourse, American law states freedom of expression, belief and speech are all guaranteed.

BUT THIS IS IRAQ. You respect the lay of the land your in. America is not there to start imposing a new lifestyle onto the Iraqi people and a new set of customs and cultural superstitions to go along with that.

It's primarily a revenue hunt for Bush & the Oil Party, oops I mean "Republican"; thinly disguised as a liberating operation for the Iraqi people to bring them some sorely needed democracy.
As you can all see it's going 100% according to plan and the Iraqis seem to be eating up democracy with a friggin' shovel.

Nevertheless, Iraqi way of life and custom still prevails.
The soldier has no legal recourse or defense for his actions in Iraq.

FACE FACTS. Forget about the politics or the clash of cultures. Put that bs aside.

This is a legal issue pure and simple. In Iraq the Quran is protected because a majority of the population are Muslim, therefore Muslim law and custom overrides all else.
And Muslim law is quite specific about preserving one's Quran.
So when this Foreigner shoots one up, he thus cannot claim he protected by any law, as it does not apply here.

So he's in the wrong pure and simple from a legal perspective. If you think he deserves the right to be able to shoot a Quran freely, GREAT!
Good for you son! Go tell your mother.

But here in the real world, the soldier is at fault because he brakes the laws of the nation he is in.

Case closed....

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Nicely put mate

Not everyone will understand what you're tryna say because they can't differentiate between US and Iraq.

An American base is American soil... American laws, didn't you ever watch that episode of Simpson’s. A Dutch cartoon was released in a Dutch magazine, by your accounts the rest of the Muslim world should shut the # up as it was produced on Dutch soil.. But tell me what did happen?

reply to post by BlasteR


Life will always result in death, why should Science, Religion or Art be any different?

reply to post by spitefulgod


The event happened at an Iraqi police station target range.

Originally posted by deltaboy
reply to post by Lone Star Patriot

 

They expect us to respect their religion when they show no outrage on MUSLIM terrorists and insurgents killing Americans from mosques. Does the Koran mentioned anything about keeping weapons in mosques?

What about the seizure of Mecca back in 1979? Where was the outrage?

Awesome point. It seems the religion has a lot of revivalist movements. If a group doesn't agree with the current ideologies they just create alternative secular and political ideologies. You don't see that in ANY other religions.

As I recall, some of the muslim detainees at Gitmo flushed the Quran down the toilets there. So why the outrage?

reply to post by jsobecky

Hello don't you know, it's ok for them to do it! Sheesh!

Originally posted by WickedStar
I studied the similarities/differences of the worlds religions and my focus was in "primitive"

To me there's nothing different from modern day religion than "primitive" religion. They all end up with people thinking they are right and only they are right.

This example in the OP is why I feel the world would be better off if all organized religions would die and go to hell.

ALL organized religion.

And I'm a very spiritual man. But, spirituality should come from yourself, not your priest/pastor/munk/pope/high priest/priestess etc. etc. (not sure what the other religions call their "holey men", that's why I didn't list them, not because I'm picking on one religion over the other).

[edit on 5/19/2008 by Griff]

reply to post by Lone Star Patriot


Oh, the old "double standard" clause. Sorry, I forgot about that.