US Soldier Uses the Quran for Target Practice

Before a flame war starts....

Jso, do you see how people can so easily discard your opinions of Islam? You've openly admitted that you haven't read the Qu'ran but have a place to judge it's content based on the opinions of others.

For example, would you try to discuss a topic at a book club without reading the assigned book?

Listen, before we start name calling when we're close to a breakthrough, lets just take the idea at hand. How can one judge the content of a book without reading the book itself?

reply to post by jsobecky


I said nothing to you or about you, yet you took it upon yourself to start having a go at me for no reason - if you think a post I made was out of line then alert the mods - other than that, stay out of my face.

Your puerile rants and inanities have become boring.

Originally posted by bodrul
reply to post by elgoog

 

thats just the Muslims your goverment and other goverments trained to do their dirty work decided to bite the hand that helped create them.
how about you do a little search on the terrorist group that attacked your country on 9/11 and thir reasons and how far their roots go in the US and its allies

burn them? is that you adovocating the genocide of 1.3+billion muslims.
looks like your the evil one here

Im not going to disagree with you about who did the act. I will disagree that it isn't what a good large percentage of the 1.3 billion muslims want. if it wasn't UBL would be in custody now, there would be NO insurgency in iraq (their friends and cousins are hiding them right under our noses). There would be no anti western sentiment in all their broadcasting and in their mosques. They want war and I feel that they need to be reminded that the western powers no longer fight from horseback with sabers, we bomb the place to the stone age and let the survivors think about who they want to blow up next time.

i don't casually recommend genocide. it may seem that way becuase of turns of phrase, but there is NO WAY you can deny that the muslims hate us, they support their homegrown terrorists in acts against us (uss cole for example, took a year to find out who did that one) and they make what should have been merely a criminal investigation into a martyrdom for jihad.

they did this, not us, and regaring research, i have here on my desk the book 'the osama bin laden i know' do you onw this book? Do you own secret wars of the cia?

i do.

i KNOW what happened, from soviet-afghanistan all the way to guantanamo bay.



~elgoog~

reply to post by Rasobasi420

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Before a flame war starts....

Jso, do you see how people can so easily discard your opinions of Islam? You've openly admitted that you haven't read the Qu'ran but have a place to judge it's content based on the opinions of others.

Just to keep you honest, Rasobasi420, I never openly admitted I haven't read the Quran. You have a habit of jumping to premature conclusions, so I thought I'd point that out.

And I never said "opinions of others", either. I said "actions".

Very, very few people here have read the entire Quran. Or the Bible. You included.

But it is not necessary to read every single word of a tome to capture it's essence. I do not have to read every single article on a website either, to capture it's nature.

I know what's coming next: "Oh, but you're taking things out of context!" That's a straw man.

People can discard my opinions of Islam; I don't care a whit. But no-one can discard the acts committed in the name of religion.

reply to post by elgoog


this is from a Muslims point of view (me being one of the 1.3 billion muslims)

1. Al-qaiuda werent free in Iraq pre 2003 , since saddam didnt like those groups as it undermined his regieme.

2. lol their friends and cousins are hiding osama under your noises. i woundt be supprised hes seem to have made a large group of followers that would do anything for him. and he has got s*** loads of caves to go through.
(i am not indicating this as a good thing)

3. when people from the middle east, south east and all over the world turn on their TVs and see Muslims being Killed by US forces or equipment given to the people that muslims are killed by, you expect that to fill our hearts with warmth? personaly i dont hate americans and have known alot, friendly people (ones i have met and spoken to ) but your goverment i detest and hate and hope they get whats coming.

(i am not saying muslims dont kill Muslims, as Terrorists have shown they dont care about other Muslims) aka (muslims against terrorists, read sites)


4. you say western powers dont no longer fight from horseback with sabers, we bomb the place to the stone age and let the survivors think about who they want to blow up next time.,

and in this line you just show why most of the world hates the US. and your lack of humanity as you most likely dont take a rats ass about cuvilian deaths.

some stuff i posted on ATS (well over 100 times) guess i should save it to quote again then having to retype.

countless websites muslims against terrorists.

www.google.co.uk...

JIHAD
people.howstuffworks.com...
www.google.co.uk...

rules of war in Islam
www.islamfortoday.com...

in summory Muslims dont hate americans (granted there are those that hate both your goverment and people)

now if you calling for a genocide, that would be a True holy war and something that all Muslims would (those able ) fight in.
and it wouldnt be some looney fatwah by a radical cleric.

and thankfully no ones that stupid to call for genocide or complete war (those in power).

but if you do get your way. see you on the front line



edit:

budski dont feed the trolls



[edit on 4-6-2008 by bodrul]

1. Al-qaiuda werent free in Iraq pre 2003 , since saddam didnt like those groups as it undermined his regieme.

I never said anything about the aq people. i know they weren't allowed to operate under the baath regime.

2. lol their friends and cousins are hiding osama under your noises. i woundt be supprised hes seem to have made a large group of followers that would do anything for him. and he has got s*** loads of caves to go through.
(i am not indicating this as a good thing)

a) you snicker about it, it's serious business. if the 1.3 billion muslims in the world want to show the world at large that they are seriously a peaceful religion, they should stop hiding him and turn him over to face justice for his crimes or try him themselves and execute him, as with saddam. NO ONE , muslim or otherwise, can deny that UBL is in pakistan and the muslim culture there will not try him for his crime, therefore, every citizen there is guilty of the charge of providing material support to terrorism, and that is something i cannot tolerate. if your're dedicated to peace, oust these radical leaders. we oust our leaders when they piss us off, why can't you???

3. when people from the middle east, south east and all over the world turn on their TVs and see Muslims being Killed by US forces or equipment given to the people that muslims are killed by, you expect that to fill our hearts with warmth?

of course not. what did your people do when they were shown videos of 3000 americans dying in a fiery crashing inferno??
YOU CELEBRATED. maybe not all 1.3 billion did, but a good large percentage did, please don't sugarcoat on this, how many people do YOU know that didnt celebrate or make some sarcastic comment?

4. you say western powers dont no longer fight from horseback with sabers, we bomb the place to the stone age and let the survivors think about who they want to blow up next time.,
and in this line you just show why most of the world hates the US. and your lack of humanity as you most likely dont take a rats ass about cuvilian deaths.

see my answer to the question above, you muslims don't give a rats ass about civilian deaths either, as more iraqis were killed by iraqis than americans. (and there weren't any military targets in the twin towers either)

You make eloquent well thought out statements, but you only represent youself. your muslim brethren are not saying the same things as you.
influence them, make them think differently, then maybe people on both sides will lighten up. i am doing my part by getting bush out of the white house, what are you doing to improve things? are you talking to your muslim leaders, and their leaders??

but if you do get your way. see you on the front line

im a veteran of gulf war I. I volunteered to go to the front line and kill the enemy soldiers. i'd be careful pointing your opinions at people like me.
;-)




~elgoog~


edit: fixed the quote markers

[edit on 5-6-2008 by elgoog]

reply to post by elgoog


No offence you talk too much BS man, every muslim I talked to was shocked, I have never met a muslim who celebrated on 9/11 haha.

And when 7/7 attack happened in london, guess what they were all doing, they were phoning up their friends, family etc worried about them, to check if they are ok.

Your view of the world is too generalized, and that is a worry to me, especially from someone who was paid to kill.

reply to post by elgoog


1. have you even read the links i gave you about Muslims protesting against terrorists and condeming them?

2.

if it wasn't UBL would be in custody now, there would be NO insurgency in iraq

what was that you didnt say?

3. so by your definition the world should blame every american sole for the actions of a few? cool so the solider that shot up an entire family and then dismissed by the US is the same. all americans are vicious blood thursity scum? well thats how it is isnt?

i mean since Bin ladin and his mary men are hiding in the Caves Muslims that live in the area are also fair targets because they may have seen him and havent run to their nearist GIJO to report it.

that comment is sick.


(to the rest of the american ATS members in no way do i blame the whole of the US and as i have stated in numrous threads im not the type do so, this repsonse is just to point out this neo-nazis flawed view)
one thing you have control of is your leaders (its making me laugh saying this) coming from someone that re-alected a man that had connections with bin-ladin and family.

Read my links on what Muslims think of terrorists.

4. what did muslims do?


candle light vigial

groups.colgate.edu...

quick google search
www.google.co.uk...

what the media flashs groups of Muslims celibrating (ratings are great)
and all muslims are happy.

I celebrated? i might of celbrated the fact my gcse was almost over if that counts.

5. i see you purposely missed out

(i am not saying muslims dont kill Muslims, as Terrorists have shown they dont care about other Muslims) aka (muslims against terrorists, read sites)

when quoting me?

i have shown you Muslims care about what happens, i have shown you what the Quran says about unlawfull killings.

6. do i care that your a vet, you threaten my family based on our faith you wouldnt stand a chance. my family could take on the pakis when they were armed by the US, what makes a nazi like your self any diffrent.

I have Given you sources and links
its up to you to read them. if you want to spew your racial clensing go ahead
i am thankfull that most Nazis have been killed off.

feel Free to reply as its my last reply to you.
i have seen some rubbish from some members but yours is sickening
atleast when others reply they read the response properly.

[edit on 5-6-2008 by bodrul]

I'm just going to post some of your quotes, just so you might just SEE what your saying, and what you are becoming, you are becoming just like the ones you hate, you are becoming an EXTREMIST! You are one and the same with the views of these terrorists. Maybe you can still change, if you have understanding and a want for peace.

Originally posted by elgoog


Instead of punshing that soldier, the should bootstrap him into a general officers job and let him take over, at least he has the right idea.

Extremist!

Originally posted by elgoog

hold people responsible for their actions.
the muslim extremists wanted a war, and becuase of handholders like you, we can't give them one.

Oh really? You wan't to please them by giving them war? creating chaos and death? creating world problems? Are you SURE you are not a TERRORIST? Are you sure you are not JUST LIKE THEM! ONE AND THE SAME!

Originally posted by elgoog

if i was president, on sep 12 2001, half of the arab world would have been a hot nuke zone, and i would have told the other half to knock their $#)$ off or i'd come back and finish the job.

no need for a 10 billion dollar for profit war.

Extremist? You want to cause a much BIGGER terrorist attack, the biggest in history, and you don't think that's bad? That is WORSE than ALL the terrorists attacks, hitlers war etc put together!, do you see the words you spread, the hatred you spread? you are an extremist. It's time to take a look at yourself.

Originally posted by elgoog
destruction of the muslim nations is our only alternative, unless we want to be at war with them for another 1000 years.

Extremist!

Originally posted by elgoog

that's them expressing their hatred of our culture, and we express ours back.
burn them, its the only way to stop the madness.

Extremist!


Now unlike you, I'm not going to generalize, I'm going to assume not all americans think like you and not all soldiers think like you.

Extremism and generalising are very bad ways of thinking, you need to chill out.



[edit on 5-6-2008 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by bodrul


wont bother with the quotes, takes too long.

you attack my post, but don't have answers for the questions.

why do the muslims in pakistan allow bin laden t hide there?
and why did the muslims in afghanistan allow him to hide there?
they support him , that's why. no other reason.
if they aren't trying to hold him accountable for his crme, they are supporting him.

regarding your comment about everyone blaming every american for the actions of a few....it's already happening, so please climb down off your crucifix and admit your people are doing the same thing.


this is not about racial cleansing BTW, it's about a culture, YOURS, that clearly feels everyone who does not bow to your holy book deserves death. go ahead and say on the forum that the quran doesn't say that but you know it does.

regarding all the feebs who think i'm being too heavy handed when recommending we bomb the countries that willingly harbor the AQ people...(saudi arabia, yemen, afghanistan et all)

i have two words for you.

enola gay.

we did it to end WWII, what do you feel about that?

it DID end the war, it DID end hostility between us and japan and now we became allies and technological partners less than 10 years after the war was over. we rebuilt japan from a feudal kingdom into a technological world power.


go ahead and blame me for 9/11 if you want. im not a muslim, i didnt do it.
im reacting to it, if you don't like it, why did you allow it to happen? why do you not remove leaders who act contrary to your supposed peaceful purposes???
( you didn't attempt to answer that one either.)

so instead of attacking my views, which you don't possess all the facts, how about answering those questions?

and I didn't threaten you, but you threatened me. i dont make threats, i act on my instincts. my instincts tell me as long as there are 3 people reading the quran, one or two of them will be violent towards people who don't read it. address that too if you can.notice i don't advocate bombing the zen buddhist countries or the greek orthodox church countries, just countries that follow a book that tells them people who don't read it are sub-human.


~elgoog~

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Extremism and generalising are very bad ways of thinking, you need to chill out.
[edit on 5-6-2008 by _Phoenix_]

3000 americans died in a fiery inferno , becuase of a STUPID religious argument about who is a better follower of GOD, and you tell me to chill out about how i react to this.

no thanks man, go back to starbucks and play with your iphone.




~elgoog~

Originally posted by elgoog

this is not about racial cleansing BTW, it's about a culture, YOURS, that clearly feels everyone who does not bow to your holy book deserves death. go ahead and say on the forum that the quran doesn't say that but you know it does.

002.256
YUSUFALI: Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

PICKTHAL: There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

SHAKIR: There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

So, to paraphrase, once again, There's no need to compel others to convert. If they're wrong, they'll find out on their own. God is truth, and the true believer knows it.

here's 50 things in the quran that illustrate my point.



Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6

Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 2:10

A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 2:24

Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 2:39, 90

"Whosoever hath done evil and his sin surroundeth him; such are rightful owners of the Fire." 2:81

If you believe in only part of the Scripture, you will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next. 2:85

Jews are the greediest of all humankind. They'd like to live 1000 years. But they are going to hell. 2:96

For disbelievers is a painful doom. 2:104

For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 2:114

"And thou wilt not be asked about the owners of hell-fire." (They are the non-muslims.) 2:119

Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 2:126

The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 2:162

Allah is severe punishment! 2:165-6

They will not emerge from the Fire. 2:167

Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 2:174

How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 2:175

"Fight in the way of Allah." 2:190, 2:244

Believers must retaliate. Those who transgress will have a painful doom. 2:178

Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

"Guard us from the doom of Fire." 2:201

Those who fail in their duty to Allah are proud and sinful. They will all go to hell. 2:206

War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216

Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 2:217

Those who marry unbelievers will burn in the Fire. 2:221

Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 2:257

"Those who swallow usury ... are rightful owners of the Fire." 2:275

Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. 3:4

Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire. 3:10

Those who disbelieve shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell. 3:12

"Guard us from the punishment of Fire." 3:16

Non-muslims will be punished by Allah for their nonbelief. 3:19

Those who disbelieve, promise them a painful doom. 3:21

"They [Christians and Jews] say: The Fire will not touch us save for a certain number of days. That which they used to invent hath deceived them regarding their religion." (The Fire will burn them forever.) 3:24

Theirs will be a painful doom. 3:77

All non-Muslims will be rejected by Allah after they die. 3:85

Apostates will be cursed by Allah, angels, and men. They will have a painful doom. 3:86-88

Disbelievers will have a painful doom. And they will have no helpers. 3:91

"Ye were upon the brink of an abyss of fire, and He did save you from it." 3:103

Disbelievers will have their faces blackened on the last day. They will face an awful doom. 3:105-6

Those who disbelieve will be burnt in the Fire. 3:116

The Fire is prepared for disbelievers. 3:131

We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 3:151

"Is one who followeth the pleasure of Allah as one who hath earned condemnation from Allah, whose habitation is the Fire?"
Unbelievers will burn forever in the Fire. 3:162

Theirs will be an awful doom. 3:176

Disbelievers do not harm Allah, but will have a painful doom. 3:177

Disbelievers will have a shameful doom. 3:178

Whoso is removed from the Fire and is made to enter paradise, he indeed is triumphant." (The rest will burn forever in the Fire.) 3:185



~elgoog~

reply to post by elgoog


Oh jeez, not that list again. Where did you pull that? Source please!! I'd like a direct link to each passage and the source of the translation. Otherwise you're just posting crap.

reply to post by bodrul
I have a question for you. You seem to be touting yourself and other muslims as being peace loving - as if everyone should love their fellow man and not judge.

Yet you have a banner in your signature line that says "Boycott Israeli goods"?? If you are such a peace loving muslim why do you have a problem with the Israelies? If you were truly a peaceful person you would want to find peace between the two people and embrace them as a HUMAN brother and friend. Hummmm I smell BS.

reply to post by Lone Star Patriot


BS? for not having support Israel in my sig
my view on Israel isnt based on faith but on the actions they take
so please go BS somewhere else.

also did you wait with this long to reply waiting for me change my sig this morning
(i change my sig alot)



edit: a quick answer to your question
showing people that the Quran doesnt say go out and kill everyone and shows how to tolrate others. and being against a country for its actions are diffrent.

also a quick search will show i have explained my Sig in detail enough times
so i aploigise if i dont write an essay for you


[edit on 11-6-2008 by bodrul]

reply to post by bodrul
I posted a little when this first started. Then I noticed, like with a good majority of the threads at this site, that the opinions on the subject are black and white. "Your wrong - I'm right." They never go anywhere but in circles. So I quit reading it.

I have no idea what your sig looked like before. But what I do know is if you are from a muslim country the vast majority of them want to wipe Israel off the map b/c they have different religious and political views. They are killing each other in the streets because of it. A lot of them are muslim extremest. Some aren't. In other words it seemed a little hypocritical to me. I'm just sayin'...

Not trying to be rude just trying to get you to see what it looks like to an outsider...

Originally posted by Lone Star Patriot
But what I do know is if you are from a muslim country the vast majority of them want to wipe Israel off the map b/c they have different religious and political views. They are killing each other in the streets because of it. A lot of them are muslim extremest. Some aren't. In other words it seemed a little hypocritical to me. I'm just

Sorry, but that's just plain wrong - it's got very little to do with religion and everything to do with israels actions in occupied territory.

Israel seem to think it can increase its borders at will, and if anyone has a problem with it they either start shooting or call on big brother to support them.

There is a reason why there have been hundreds of UN resolutions against israel - all of which the US has blocked.

reply to post by budski


I think the key point here is Israel's actions in occupied territories. The impression seems to be that the rights of Jewish settlers in occupied territories hold more merit than the rights Palestinians.

Needless to say, there is a far bit of oppression taking place in this particular region.

Originally posted by Lone Star Patriot
[But what I do know is if you are from a muslim country the vast majority of them want to wipe Israel off the map b/c they have different religious and political views. They are killing each other in the streets because of it. A lot of them are muslim extremest. Some aren't. In other words it seemed a little hypocritical to me.

Your assertion that alot of Muslims are extremists, while some aren't, seems to read more like "the majority of Muslims are extremists, while some aren't." Talk about one hell of a sentiment.

That in and of itself seems to be a rather hypocritical.