The Rainbow Serpents

Originally posted by KTK

Cause we get told these stories along with hansel and gretel we take them as such. We also get told that a frog is a frog and a snake is a snake and that the Aboriginal people are dumb cause they think a real snake created the world. When its presented this way at an early age then the Aboriginal people have no hope for respect and understanding of their sacred sites(thanks BHP)

Thats how we´re conditioned. To think of it all as a fairy-tale. And what better place to condition kids than in pre-school? Young, impressionable minds. Baby-fying our spiritual and extraterrestrial heritage. Damn.

Again I keep coming back to getting past semantics and looking at the similarities between the ancient beliefs of all cultures. What I can see from my own investigations is that all Eastern religions are a bastardised version of these ancient beliefs.

True.

ancient Indonesia and Papua New Guinea(They had bull roarers as well).

Did they have bullroarers as well?

Have places like Atlantis Lumeria etc ever been associated with the South Pole region?

Some theories place atlantis and/or our origins in the antarctica.



PS: Your post contained info on tasmanian aborigines, bullroarers in papua new guinea and the conditioning of schoolchildren ("aborigines are dumb, they believe a snake made the world"). I dont see how thats off-topic.

Originally posted by KTK

This has always struck a chord with me as I could never fathom how Asian trading routes can go through Indonesia and not bother with Australia or NZ. The Aboriginals of North Western Australia were rather cosmopolitan people when you scratch the surface.

Ridiculous idea, isnt it?

For at least a number of centuries, Macassar had traded with Indigenous Australians on Australia's north coast, particularly the Yolngu of north-east Arnhem Land.

An early map of the known world, made in 1603 by Father Matteo Ricci, an Italian Jesuit who spent a long time in China, noted in a blank space where Australia lies: No one has ever been to this land in the south, hence we know nothing about it. In smaller characters he brushed the Chinese characters Fire Land and Land of Parrots[1] suggesting the Chinese were aware of and had perhaps sighted Australia - the reference to parrots may mean that someone had in fact made a landing on the continent after all...

en.wikipedia.org...

Are you sure you´re researching these things for the first time? You´re doing pretty good at it.




[edit on 21-5-2008 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by mgmirkin

However, if one wishes to make a claim that "rainbow serpents" are related to UFOs (as some have done), one should compare the actual archaic descriptions of rainbow serpents and other "dragons" to UFO sightings to see if they bear any resemblance to one another. So far as I can tell, they don't. Hence my opinion. You're welcome to your own opinion.

I dont think they bear too much resemblance to modern UFO-sightings. The "greys" seem to be an entirely different race than the one existing 12 000 years ago. With different means of travel.

They dont resemble UFOs, they resemble other myths of other countries.

Consider this from another thread I wrote in (ONLY looking at africa for the moment):

African Mythology

...some quotes from the mythology of various african tribes on the subject of "Gods" and "the Heavens" (note: Most languages originally had the same word for "sky" and "heaven". Many still do use both words interchangebly). According to common doctrine, all of these stories (which are similar on every continent, not only the African) are all "made up". But if that were the case, they wouldnt all sound similar! Also note that most ancient myths portray and talk about their "Gods" as having flesh bodies and acting in very human ways (getting angry, falling in love, etc.).

MASAI: The Gods sent some of their children to earth. The Gods came from above the clouds and brought plants and animals with them.

JA-LUO: Apodho came down to earth accompanied by his wife, bringing with him all cultural assets.

MADI-MORU: The first people lived in the Heavens. Until that connection was cut, there was a lot of traffic from the Heavens to Earth.

GANDA: The primal women came from the Heavens.

NYORO: When God established the Earth, he sent the first human couple down from the Heavens.

KIVU-PYGMIES: Our ancestors fell from the Heavens.

KULUWE: The first humans came from the Heavens, arriving with seed, rake, axe, tools etc.

BENA-LULUA: God sent four of his sons to earth.

ASHANTI: Seven people created by God climbed down to earth. After conceiving other people, they returned to the Heavens.

ZIBA: God Rugaba travels upwards to the heavens and then through the darkness.

NANDI: God Tororut lives in the heavens. He looks like a human but has wings that can cause lightning. (One of their Gods is called Chepkelienskol, which when translated literally, means “The thing with the 9 ray-beam.legs”

Originally posted by mgmirkin

It's interesting to see some of the specific graphics and read the more detailed descriptions / explanation offered by Talbott on the myth section of the relatively new forum over at the Thunderbolts site. He makes relatively compelling arguments, though I think he's still in the process of trying to convert a bunch of materials into a format
that's easy to put on the web in a way that's easy to follow. No doubt hard to "boil it down," especially with so many interlocking themes that all appear to play a part in his interpretation of an "original cosmic drama." (Whether the reader accepts his explanations or not). It appears to dovetail together in interesting ways that appear non-random and with some level of internal consistency (I haven't heard the full argument yet; granted the fll argument would probably take up several BOOKS).

Anywho. It's an interesting approach, but undoubtedly not the ONLY one.

~Michael

Hi Michael,

I wouldn't put much stock in David Talbott's theories. As a theosophist and student of esoteric religions I can assure you that Talbott's deductions of the arcane symbolism of proto-religions is at worst erroneous, and at best tenous and made to fit his egregious syncretism.

I don't think that he gives much credit to the ancient rites of initiation, and hidden and veiled theological truths and opts more towards an exoteric and mundane interpretation of principally esoteric and arcane concepts.

In other words he purposely and conveniently 'dumbs down' these highly complex archetypal and allegorical concepts by interpreting them as simple phenomenal astronomical events, and by extension insinuates that the ancients where incapable of metaphorical thought, but were just observing the sky.

An when he does posit his theories on ancient allegory, he again skims off superficialities
without concrete, historically and astrologically correct inferences.

A case in point;

In "The Saturn Myth" he often cites Babylonian-Assyrian astrology and the importance of Saturn and by a process of false deduction equates Saturn with Sha-mash, the Sun.

Although the Assyrians where the first to observe Saturn (around 700 B.C) it was not given a specific name "Star of Ninib" until after Jupiter and Venus were specifically distinguished among the planets and obviously much later than the Sun, being named by their progenitors, the Babylonians millenia before...

Surely such an observable gyrating fiery orb as a polar Saturn would have been documented by the Babylonians thousands of years before and given a name apart from the sun.

Furthermore his reworking of Sanskrit iconography into his polar Saturn theory has been refuted by independent Sanskrit scholar and mythologist Roger Ashton in his book aptly titled "The Unworkable Polar Saturn" (1998).

Other people like Paul Gans and Wayne Throop have also questioned Talbott here:

groups.google.com...
groups.google.com...

With so much of his theories dependent on observable and hence empirical data, no physics has ever been provided to substantiate them.

In defense of this fact Talbott though has admitted that his ideas do not conform to the known the laws of physics. However his "best" physical model to date 'The Grubaugh Model' has also been refuted by two astronomers, Victor Slabinski and Tom Van Flandern.

Also Talbott's book was largely ignored by the main Velikovsky journals and his peers don't seem to support his largely conceptual and empirically unsubstantiated theories.
'The Saturn Problem. Chronology & Catastrophism Review', 2000

Sorry about the ramble, largely OT too, but can't accept this all too easy vulgarization and corruption of purposely concealed TRUTHS.





[edit on 21-5-2008 by OEAOHOO]

Originally posted by KTK
Have places like Atlantis Lumeria etc ever been associated with the South Pole region?

Yes, persistently. Many of the theories I've read theorize the Antarctic as the likely location of Atlantis due to the fact that if there was an ancient pole shift, or a drift of the crust over the core of the earth, Antarctica would have previously been located much farther north in warmer climes. As the ice is so thick, any evidence of a lost civilisation could easily be buried deep beneath Antarctica.

I am particularly drawn to this image from India.

[URL=http://imageshack.us]

Many prevalent and various renditions of the serpent cult were once located in India. A masculine version of the serpent named Nagaraja — known as the “king of the serpents” was worshipped in northern India, but instead of the renditions, actual live snakes were worshipped in South India. The Manasa-cult in Bengal, India, however, worshipped the human form serpent goddess, Manasa

www.lifeinthefastlane.ca...

Originally posted by interestedalways
I am particularly drawn to this image from India.

[URL=http://imageshack.us]

Many prevalent and various renditions of the serpent cult were once located in India. A masculine version of the serpent named Nagaraja — known as the “king of the serpents” was worshipped in northern India, but instead of the renditions, actual live snakes were worshipped in South India. The Manasa-cult in Bengal, India, however, worshipped the human form serpent goddess, Manasa

www.lifeinthefastlane.ca...

This statue I had seen while closing my eyes back eight years ago, this statue came in threes, and my physical body was feeling like it was being crushed under its presence. I felt a presence in the house but I couldn't see it, then I closed my eyes and could feel and see it.

I am pretty sure it deals with ALIENS. The statues looked more male like some monks in the same pose but in threes, outside normal vision to see.

[edit on 22-5-2008 by menguard]

reply to post by interestedalways


It's certainly odd, one must grant that the same animal reappears over and over again for adoration. Surely the odds would be that the gods of these separate civilizations would reflect a more diverse range of animals; here lions and tigers, there elephants and bulls, etc. Why does every cosmology seem to revere or fear the serpent? Also odd is that while I could see where one would elevate a lion or bull because of its attributes, there is little about a serpent that is particularly noble, strong, or intelligent, imo.

Spirals and carvings of this snake energy are seen all over the world, much like the cult of the serpent. And, it is always found to be in association with the serpent worship. According to J.C. Cooper in An Illustrated Encyclopedia of Traditional Symbols, the spiral "typifies the androgyne and is connected with the caduceus symbolism" which is of course the symbol of serpent healing. In Australia Robert Layton in Australian Rock Art: a new synthesis, (Cambridge University Press) points out the serpent origins of these images; images, which are always seen with other serpentine shapes. Figure three in Layton’s book shows these images clearly as "a snake entering a hole," "a snake leaving a hole." Remembering that the Ouroborus, the circular image of the snake eating its own tail, is an image of immortality, we should also remember the antiquity of the device. Along side spirals are circles like the Ouroborus, called often cup and ring marks. There are also zigzags, thought by many to be the fiery aspect of the serpent, and waves, showing the fluidity of the serpent - something also related to the symbolism of Water. It is no surprise that such images of the snake, in all its relative forms should be seen on the most ancient of rock art. In the cup and ring marks there are many images of what appears to be a serpent entering the cup and rings. Some have put this down to a serpent entering a hole, others that it is eating an egg; nobody is sure. What it does show is a serpent head towards a cup! If, of course, the snake is also the symbol of the macro sun, then these spirals and serpentine patterns may also reveal the pathways of the sun at various times of the year and the greater years – such as those of the precession of the earth.

www.book-of-thoth.com...

The act of undulation and it's properties of creation seems to tie in to this idea.

During the ascent of these serpent energies up the spine to the centre of the head, the individual while going through this supposed enlightenment process, will hear sounds similar to the sounds the Sistrum makes – i.e., rattle sounds like tambourine bells and sounds like a bell-tree being stroked. One will also hear sounds like a ‘rattle snake’ and also whistles and flute-like instruments. Underlying these sounds is a very low and strong rumbling sound which fades-in at first and gets louder and louder as the process proceeds culminating in the bright, white light explosion in the centre of the head. The Sistrum then may have been a symbol of this experience.

Note the mention of the sounds to create an altered state as a potential medium through the pineal to access higher realities. This fits with the bullroar, etc.

It is the loop (the RU or gateway) of the Ankh, which is held by the immortals to the nostrils (as in the Biblical god breathing life into the nostrils of Adam.) If indeed these ‘immortals’ are the sun, moon and stars, then this Ru device is indeed a gateway to the stars – or basically a gateway to what we were believed to return or become following death. The Ankh though outlived Egyptian domination and was widely used by the Christians as their first cross, but in this symbol holds a clue to the secret of the serpent.

Thoth (see Taautus below) was said to have symbolised the four elements with a simple cross, which originated from the oldest Phoenician alphabet as the curling serpent. Indeed Philo adds that the Phoenician alphabet "are those formed by means of serpents . . . and adored them as the supreme gods, the rulers of the universe." Thus bringing to mind the god Thoth, who again is related to the worship of serpents and who created the alphabet. The "rulers of the universe" are indeed the planets and stars.

edit to add all the above come from the source indicated above!

[edit on 22-5-2008 by interestedalways]

If you look at the exhaust trails that aircraft leave behind, then you have a flying snake, and if it occasionally fires off some rounds, you have a flying snake that breaths fire. Metal cold exteriors look much more like snakes and reptile scales than feathers or fur.

Being that there is considerable evidence that there are basic forms of life that survive in outer space, in only makes sense that there is life throughout the universe. If there is life throughout the universe, then odds are the we are not the first intelligent species in the gallaxy, or even in the nearby star systems.

I have been a big fan of this type of research since before the "Chariots of the Gods" movie came out, in fact I have already read the book.

The thing is that pre-Christian Europe was very spiritual, practiced magic, and has legends of people being able to do amazing things. Early Europeans also performed ceremonies and rituals where the people would pass into a higher plain of existance. When the Roman Catholics took over Europe, they went out of their way to eradicate all traces of the ancient wican ways, including the holistic medical practices. Those who continued the old Earth ways were killed in mass numbers as witches. In many places today, spirituality is re-awakening in Europeans.

reply to post by interestedalways


Thats interesting because the ancient sumerians were also known to worship a human-snake hybrid.

reply to post by Skyfloating



Im so new to this I didnt know the sacred texts website existed. I could easily retire and spend my days there. Ive actually had to go and re educate myself on alot of things cause the education in this country is so dismal unless you pay for it. I really wish now I had been spolit enough to go to a steiner school.

My line of thinking was that if a Dutch guy could find it in 1606 the celts and others could have been sniffing around only 400 years before. I then set of to see who had the earliest maps and Mr jesuit in China stuck out like dogs balls.

Bullroarers in PNG and Indonesia, of course.......They are every bloody where even in the greek mystery schools. Something for interested parties to have a deep think about.

www.thefreelibrary.com...:+the+Myth+of+Sexuality+in+Papua+New+Guinea+and+Beyond-a020342892


This thread needs a Rabbi, this is WAY above me. Skyfloating can you or do you know of someone that can look into this one for us. Even an evangelical christian would know more about these things than I

Sinim is a land mentioned in the Hebrew Bible, in the Book of Isaiah 49:12. "Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim."

This country is unknown, though it is apparent from Isaiah that it was considered one of the most distant lands imaginable. Some scholars have claimed it as another name for the Phoenicians, however, it has been usually associated with China (basing it on the root word Sin, which resembles the Latinization for the Chinese Qin, after the Qin dynasty, founded only in 221 BC by Qin Shi Huang-Di).

en.wikipedia.org...

Have a look at the linked article

www.hebroots.org...







I have also solved the mystery of where the old ATS researchers have gone. Apart from being taken out by direct energy beams by (insert agency) and gangstalking by an old lady going to cash her pension cheque there is something else that one has to worry about. Finding your own post on the front page of google while researching dosnt really give me the happies, I cant explain why but it just dont look right.





[edit on 22-5-2008 by KTK]

[edit on 22-5-2008 by KTK]

[edit on 22-5-2008 by KTK]

reply to post by KTK



This comes from the eminent OT scholar John Peter Lange's "Commentary on the Holy Scriptures, Critical, Doctrinal and Homiletical". Zondervan, 1960. 12 vols.


askelm.com...

"from the land of Sinim." Lange’s Commentary says "this name [Sinim] must represent an entire quarter of the heavens and probably the east" (vol.VI, p.535). And what major people are in this region? China is in an easterly direction from Jerusalem and would fit the prophet’s intentions very well. Indeed, in modern Hebrew, Sinim means "China," and well it should because even the single letter we render as "Ch" in "China" has the soft sound of an "S" and the Chinese call themselves the people of "Sina" or "Sino" with the vowel at the end usually unsounded. Chinese history recognizes that in the tenth to the twelfth centuries A.D., major parts of China were ruled by what they call the "SinoKhitan Empire" (the Chinese area was dominated by the Khitan people—or, as I have shown, the Kittim people). Thus, the Kittim and the Sinim of the Bible are found together in major historical events that formed the Chinese nation and its people.

Cause I dont know these things and the bible talk scares me off could you give me a run down of what they are trying to say here?

www.hebroots.org...


Is it that the Aboriginals are one of the lost tribes and even then what does that mean in bible talk?


Are they trying to say that the Aboriginals are the Phoenicians?


Me no comprende as they wish for me to not have ever comprended

reply to post by OEAOHOO



That guy is so fos, I think the orthodox Jewish researcher makes a far more compelling argument.


I may have found the Jewish fellow some linguistical evidence. I just need to look into it a wee bit further.

Not only does this thread need a Rabbi it also needs a linguist



[edit on 22-5-2008 by KTK]

reply to post by squiz


I wanted to thank you for the videos you presented, particularly the last one with the cave paintings.

I am still in the research mode concerning this subject as it is so layered in symbology. I get the sense though, that being the word Rainbow represents light and serpent represents the fact of undulating movement it may have something to do with the ability to move the light in a creative way.

I have also explored information that suggests photons in our DNA that eminate serpentine shapes in the form of light that are consistant with universal images throughout history, as if we are programmed to have this core as part of our nature and being.

I am having a hard time expressing my thoughts on this, but what I am trying to say is that there is quite possibly the s shape inherent in our universal consciencousness (sp?) that without such there would be no manifestation of creation. *sigh* I wish I could find the language for the thoughts.

Please be patient with me here, what I am getting at is the act of movement.

We have the design in a mathmatical way with the builders, etc....... which creates the time, measurements, physics, etc....... but we also have to have the chaos factor, as with the serpentine movement.

The ability to stir things around allowing matter to be moved and shaped.

Make any sense, or am I way off here?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by interestedalways

 

Thats interesting because the ancient sumerians were also known to worship a human-snake hybrid.

Could you elaborate a bit on what this idea means to you?

Are we searching for our own ancestory here?

reply to post by interestedalways


I dont know Ms. Interestedalways. I am just interested - always. And learning from your posts in this thread.

reply to post by interestedalways



Im finding all the symbols used are there to conceptualise ideas that cant be explained.

Remember ancient people may have relied on sign language and these universal signs may have become universal symbols. Ive come across alot about Aboriginal sign language and taboo language.


Im waiting on some preliminary results on a wee experiment im conducting about tracing ones ancestry. If I get any positives Ill try you next. Ill U2U you about it.