3 Students Suspended for not Standing for Pledge

I got in trouble plenty of times for this exact thing. I doubt it will change anytime soon - in fact, in the near future it wouldn't be so shocking to hear kids being labeled as terrorists or threats to national security for not partaking in the pledge.

For example - 20 years ago, you get into a fight at school - get in trouble, parents get called - probably get grounded and / or detention

10 years ago - get into a fight at school, they bring you to the on-campus deputy, and they make sure you understand how serious it is

5 years - get into a fight at school, get arrested on the spot, regardless of age. Parents wont get called until you are already detained.

Today - get arrested for just about anything
ex: wizbangblog.com...

I mean, there will not be an end to this. We are going in one direction in this country, and it is NOT towards more freedoms.

Originally posted by scientist
I got in trouble plenty of times for this exact thing. I doubt it will change anytime soon - in fact, in the near future it wouldn't be so shocking to hear kids being labeled as terrorists or threats to national security for not partaking in the pledge.

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nope, you didn't read the thread did you? the legal issue is settled.

Now, wise up about this 10yr girl. No DA is going to prosecute her. Yes, she suffered some emotional distress and if her attorney wants to push it they will at the very least make the teachers involved go through sensitvity training. If I was the girls parent, I would be suing the crap out of the teacher, the principle, the person that wrote or didn't write the procedure of how to handle a knife in the elementary school. I would have quite a list.
Things like this are going to happen all across this great land because we are alot of people and we have alot of dumbasses. Every single one of you that works has a Dwight Shruet they know.
Well, with this story we have Dwight the teacher and Dwight the retarded cop. It is going to happen. We just need to spank the hell out of these people when it does. My near future is going to allow me to be the hand that slaps these people in the back of the head.

reply to post by scarlett1125


That guy Mel Olsen really is a jackass, I served in the Marines during the Vietnam War, and it wasn't in Japan. He's obviously ignorant as why we defend such rights in this country. He should move to Russia so he can fall in line like a good little commie.

This is bullspit. Has anyone heard of freedom of speech. If not it's in the freaken constitution of the United States.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
nope, you didn't read the thread did you? the legal issue is settled.

Yes, I read the thread. Why do you assume I didn't? Who cares if the "legal issue is settled?" The point is, it happened - its been happening, and it will continue to happen. Even moreso, it will get worse and worse over time.

Now please read over that response a few times before making more assumptions.

I don't really care either way.

Lovely for the little ones to be differentiating themselves from the group mind and all that. Yay for them, even if they're not adults, and even if the Supremes have ruled that minors and attendees of public schools have limited (lessened) rights while at school; i.e., rights to privacy, etc.

And is punishing them for disobeying the rules somehow a dark plot from the Oval Office to controll the minds of young midwesterners? Hardly--the White House is focused on the next spending bill, not kids in the sticks with a punk attitude and a kewl haircut.

Despite their morbid lefty nightmares, America really isn't in danger of the takeover from within that so many liberals imagine; most nations in history (up to WWII) had some sort of loyalty ceremony on public occasions.

You know the real sign of fascist takeover? It's not when kids are punished for being louts; that is just the way of things. No, fascism comes when no one even dissents; no one questions the strong leader, no one doubts that the sacred soil of the mother/father-land is worth their blood.

A real fascist doesn't have a 30% approval rating, a la Bush. A real Fascist has a 99.99% approval rating, like Mussolini or Franco, or the early Hitler and Napoleon.

For a real fascist, people are falling all over themselves to salute and show off their political piety.

And do you know why????

Because the fearless leader can promise you safety, bread, and a job. That's why.

Nope, there's no real threat of fascist takeover, or anarchic flag-burning. It's just another day in America: everyone shouting that they alone have it right.

The only danger is when no one WANTS to dissent. When they beg for the leader's mark on their right hand or forehead. When they convert to a one-world religion that dovetails with the shiny new one-wold government.

The problem is not on days like today, when this topic draws page after page of replies. The problem comes when no one cares either way, as long as they have a job.

.

Originally posted by queenT
these kids are in school, and they didn't follow the rules--period.

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they didn't follow the rules--period

That's an argument?

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
I don't know why I'm posting to an obvious "bait" thread, but here goes....

I fought for our country, would do so again in a minute. I swore an oath to the constitution, and the country it represents. That flag is also representative of the very same nation, and all of those who sacrificed for it. Patriotic displays and rituals are a needed lesson to every person raised in this country.

It is a simple procedure.

Stand when the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE is recited, as well as the national anthem. You are, after all, making that pledge.

If not, (and don't use the under God reference, it can be omitted) and you don't want to say the pledge? Get the BLEEP out, and find a country that will hand you the same benefits and security without an oath of allegiance.

Yeah, thought so...

Some folks dont stand for religous reasons.Ive fought for this country as well and im very proud of it.One of the many reasons i defended my country is to make sure folks have the right to stand or not to stand.Its a right its not manditory and in most cases it not a show of disrespect.Some religions dont want you showing allegiance to anything to but to God..and a fought for those folks freedom as well and will do it again if the time comes.

Protect the real thing not the symbol. Protect freedom of speech, no the physical flag, or the "oath". If that kid really is a "traitor" he could easily say the oath and not believe in it.

Just saying, in my country we used to recite the national anthem and thing songs for the communist party every day at school. I was to little then to ask why. This stopped after 1990

Today I would not recite anything on command or because others do it. This means freedom. Even so I would fight for my country if needed. What do you think if I was a traitor with no intention to fight, reciting some "oath" could change it ?

[edit on 12-5-2008 by pai mei]

If they broke a school rule then they should be punished. This was not some noble protest, it was probably about some lazy punks being a$$es. Geeez, just stand put your hand on your chest and sing along in your head the lyrics to your favorite song. Protest for the sake of protest is asinine, but then some people aren't happy unless people are looking in them. The OP makes it sound like this horrible, wanton punishment. Boo hoo. I'll save my tears (and support) for real travesties

I'm going to suggest there is a little more to this than a straight constitutional
issue.

Like several other posters I am a Viet Nam Vet; a disabled vet as well.

Now it doesn't bother me as a person that these three did not care to recite the Pledge. If they choose not to say it, fine.

But show others you respect their views as well and please stand, along with them, while they do.

Isn't that all the district requested of them? Just to stand and show some respect for their classmates views?

By not saying the Pledge they were expressing displeasure. But by not standing they were insulting their classmates.



[edit on 12-5-2008 by garyo1954]

Originally posted by Threadfall
If they broke a school rule then they should be punished. This was not some noble protest, it was probably about some lazy punks being a$$es. Geeez, just stand put your hand on your chest and sing along in your head the lyrics to your favorite song. Protest for the sake of protest is asinine, but then some people aren't happy unless people are looking in them. The OP makes it sound like this horrible, wanton punishment. Boo hoo. I'll save my tears (and support) for real travesties

Are you for real?

How is it that those of you that support the punishment, are actually going against the consitution and the laws of the land, you so proud of.

I'm puzzled are you true Americans or just slaves to a miltary rule?

But should I be puzzled when it turms out the flag you see flown mostly is not the flag of freedom but the Military flag.

The true flag of peace & Ron Paul supporters

What else don't you actually do that is consitutional?

reply to post by jasonjnelson

But that's just it. There is a HUGE difference between desecration and this refusal to stand for a pledge that no longer means anything, except that you will follow blindly what those in power have laid out for all of us. I refuse to do that. I'm not against the pledge or the flag, except in that they are symbols of a tyranny that has gone on long enough. Do I want the symbols changed? No, I want my allegiance to both to mean more than what it has become. These kids have my respect BECAUSE they used those freedoms that so many have fought and died for. The fact is that the freedoms and the actions are infinitely more important than ANY symbol. The symbol by itself is utterly meaningless if those freedoms are not protected.

As the mother said in the article, the punishment did not fit the crime. But that's where our schools are headed. We are teaching children to follow blindly. They were not goofing off during the pledge, but they took the opportunity that they had to make a statement about what they believed. I applaud them for that. There are always consequences for doing the right thing. That is why it is always more difficult to stand up for what we believe. I hope that the ACLU can find a way to protect the civil liberties of these students whose basic rights should NOT end the moment they step through the school doors.

In reality, this is all part of the conspiracy against America. We are not just talking about the freedom of speech of 3 kids. We are talking about the freedom of speech that we all have taken for granted. When protesters of the president and his policies are required to stand 2 blocks away, all of our civil liberties are violated. When people who assemble for peaceful purposes are put on a terrorist watch list, we are all violated. We have to start to see that if it can happen to "them" (whoever "they" may be), then it can happen to us, too.

But if they can train students to follow blindly, they'll continue to do so into adulthood. Just more sheeple for the slaughter.

reply to post by RedmoonMWC


Maybe kids don't understand the pledge or the Constitution because we don't teach it. But you're assuming that all 8th graders are morons. They are not. They are capable of highly rational thought when they are allowed. We should demand that our schools teach children what it means to pledge to the flag, what it means to protest, what it means to have the rights and freedoms we have. If we don't, we are just as culpable as the government has systematically enslaved us.

I remember I used to never stand up for the pledge in middle school and certainly not in high school...yeah they emphasized it but first thing in the morning all kids want to do is sleep so why do it?

Its nothing against the country- even though I had much more respect for it back then than I do now. It's just laziness or just simply not wanting to stand. It's ridiculous that kids are still being forced to stand for the pledge...They shouldn't have to if they don't want to. People at work don't do the pledge- why should kids? Especially after bush has ransacked this country and turned it into hell basically.

I would bring it up to the school board, as well as get the local news to shine some light on it and expose it to the public...guaranteed to make the school regret what its done and the last thing they want to do is look bad because it'll affect their funding.

Well, as you can see, the local news is shining light on it. I'm surprised that kids in middle school are still doing the pledge like this. But then, I live in a blue state. LOL

I understand its the pledge of allegiance and its a person right to decide whether he wants to do it or not but c'mon these are Jr. High kids. More likely than not, they were trying to be badasses in front of their peers and got punished for it...Go to a Jr high school and ask those kids bout America's politics and most wont have a clue what to say.

reply to post by scientist

I mean, there will not be an end to this. We are going in one direction in this country, and it is NOT towards more freedoms.

So true.
If this had happened 30 years ago there would be no discussion, let alone a friggin' news article on the subject.
The teachers would have probably smirked and said "Boys will be boys" and that would have been the end of it. It would have stayed in the classroom.

Nowadays you don't pledge allegiance to, it's tantamount to treason, you probably automatically go on a CIA Terrorism Watchlist, people immediately get a sneaking-suspicion could be Muslim and the madness just spirals out of control from there on in.

Well helloooo Third Reich. I'm sureAdolf did the same to German kids who didn't pledge allegiance to him.