3 Students Suspended for not Standing for Pledge

i agree we have a right to a opinion (the constitution) but i feel our rights have been trampled on for way to long ,its power to the people . i would fight for this country to the death.now if only the persons who run the country would tell me the truth to what im fighting for.

reply to post by antibush2k4


I so agree, what are those poor soldiers fighting for. Because they really don't know, it's like they're brainwashed into thinking they're fighting terrorist when they're fighting to give power to someone who is in power. In which we already know who it is , not that hard to guess.

Even though I was not born in the United States and live in it does not mean I don't appreciate what those soldiers back then fought for the constitution. I have different believes for flags, I don't salute flags because I don't idolize objects. I don't need to, appreciate with my gratitude and my actions. I think people get so defendant when we don't do what is right for them in there minds. Each generation acts differently what others did back then might be different now.

First, this country is not and never has been, a Democracy, it was set up as, and is supposed to be, a Constitutional Republic with a semi Democratic election process.

Second, you cannot tell me that an 8th grader has any concept about politics and protest, these kids were just being disrespectful and parrioting their parrents view at most. Most kids don't understand the meaning of the pledge or the amendments to the Constitution.

Third, The pledge and standing as the Flag passes is a sign of respect, not for our current administration, but for the constitution and what this country was founded on, if you can't show the minimum respect by standing during the pledge, then you should also remain seated when your favorite team scores. (you will notice I did not say recite the pledge)
The reason school systems have kids recite the pledge is so, over time, they will memorize it, and possibly come to know what it meens.

Richard Bernard “Red” Skelton said it best here. www.poofcat.com...

disrespect
Noun
contempt or lack of respect, or courteous regard for others.

reply to post by RedmoonMWC

even if they dont know what they were doin they still have the right. and y dont we do it eveyday and everyone if its a sign of respect would we throw them in jail if they refuse. im a proud american but you have to draw a line somewhere. why do we only do the plegde in school from grades 1 through 12 and dont apply it the real world?

I would think it was a choice to say the pledge. Many people enjoy saying it.

The Pledge is nothing more than nationalistic propaganda meant to brainwash the kids to stand by whatever criminal cabal currently commands the white house and pentagon, thats all. Remember that Jehovaks Witnesses do NOT stand for any pledges as a matter of their religion and they have an absolute right to.

Others do not stand as they know that the flag does NOT represent anything from the past, but the current state of criminality we are now in. The flag is nothing but a piece of cloth...get over it. We can burn it, stomp on it and revile it as we choose. If any of my kids decided not to stand and robotically swear to uphold the illegal crap that the flag now represents, then I will support them and God help and petty teacher or bureaucrat that gets in the way.

The flag deserves NO respect as it stands now: What exactly do we stand for now? Torture, kidnapping, inside attacks on our nation by the leaders, theft of trillions by the Neocon/Israeli cabal, loss of rights..?? Take your pick. What is so great about us? We have more prisoners than all other nations combined, most for ' crimes ' that are legal in most civilized nations...we are a backwards right wing idiocy masked as a nation. Fox news has drones drooling in front of it all day and then repeating what they heard as it it were true...sad.

Thye flag now means a fascist coup has taken over and the Bush/Cheney cabal has trashed any meaning the flag had long ago. We cal have NO pride when we see the flag; it represents the very worst traits that a nation can posses: A police state already here, with scummy cop's weilding vast powers to abuse the people...and on and on.

When the flag returns to what it should be, then maybe the people will rally around it once again; for now it stands for corporate masters destroying the nation while traitors like Bush and gang loot the nation and ruin our rights. Shame on anyone who holds the flag up as some kind of banner of good; it is the new Jolly Roger of the world.

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
I don't know why I'm posting to an obvious "bait" thread, but here goes....

I fought for our country, would do so again in a minute. I swore an oath to the constitution, and the country it represents. That flag is also representative of the very same nation, and all of those who sacrificed for it. Patriotic displays and rituals are a needed lesson to every person raised in this country.

It is a simple procedure.

Stand when the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE is recited, as well as the national anthem. You are, after all, making that pledge.

If not, (and don't use the under God reference, it can be omitted) and you don't want to say the pledge? Get the BLEEP out, and find a country that will hand you the same benefits and security without an oath of allegiance.

Yeah, thought so...

You should be more upset that these kids' rights are being infringed upon. THAT is what you fought for. You didn't fight for the right to force kids to salute. You fought for those kids' right not to. I applaud your efforts, but I think you're seeing this from the wrong perspective.

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
I don't know why I'm posting to an obvious "bait" thread, but here goes....

I fought for our country, would do so again in a minute. I swore an oath to the constitution, and the country it represents. That flag is also representative of the very same nation, and all of those who sacrificed for it. Patriotic displays and rituals are a needed lesson to every person raised in this country.

It is a simple procedure.

Stand when the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE is recited, as well as the national anthem. You are, after all, making that pledge.

If not, (and don't use the under God reference, it can be omitted) and you don't want to say the pledge? Get the BLEEP out, and find a country that will hand you the same benefits and security without an oath of allegiance.

Yeah, thought so...

I also fought for this country and would proudly do it again. However, I believe it is a choice. I choose to pledge allegiance to this country, not everyone has to. Why would I not offer the arm of protection to those with beliefs different than mine, as long as that belief doesn't do harm to others?

I believe in the country that was founded upon The Constitution, not the country that it has become. I believe in the Ideal of America, a land where difference is embraced and freedom is cherished.

I do not believe in the America that we've become nor the one we are turning into. I do not believe in an America that occupies other countries, profiting upon the backs of it's soldiers, and the blood of innocents. I do not believe in an America that sacrifices liberty for security. I do not believe in the elitist America that uses debt as money, nor allows the rich to trample the poor. I do not believe in an America that would use threats and intimidation of its citizenry to achieve it's aims.

In short, yes, I love my country and I would stand for the Pledge. But I recognize the Rights of those who would not do so. I may not agree with what you say, but I will die fighting to allow you the Right to keep saying it.

Jason, the Bible is very sacred to some individuals, do you advocate that we all must read it and recite it every morning in class as well?

You fought for the Constitution of the United States, have you ever happened to read it? What does the first ammendment say? We have the right to say (and not say) whatever the hell we want; including the Pledge of Allegiance.

Get off your high horse, this has nothing to do with "who fought for what." We, as a species, have an unalienable right to do what we please. These kids didn't want to stand for the Pledge, that is their choice. You have no right to force them to stand, just like I have no right to force you to read the bible. If you truly cared about what you fought for, you wouldn't be here bitching about what these kids did.

[edit on 12-5-2008 by Double Eights]

A choice is fine but standing for the "Pledge" is if nothing else showing respect to the flag which stands for this United States. Nobody is forcing these kids to believe anything but the mere act of standing out of respect doesn't force you into believing anything! Furthermore, when you pledge allegiance to the USA, it means to the country you are a citizen of not to the current administration.

Lets keep the wheels of anarchy rolling along and see where it gets America. A unified nation is a powerful nation. It has nothing to do with agreeing with current policy.

Okay, problem isn't really the idea of pledging allegiance, the problem is in the pledge itself.

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all."

1. Under God.

With all the different religions working to build that country into what it has become today... you'd think they'd show some leniency with the religious enforcement.

2. With liberty...

When the president of the country is actively seeking to destroy those liberties. How can you pledge allegiance to those liberties?

3. ...and Justice for all.

If the country seriously believed that, Camp Delta wouldn't exist at all. It doesn't say "Justice for those my government deems worthwhile to give it to.", it says "Justice for ALL"
Quite frankly, when you're locking people up and torturing them simply to find out if they have anything you might want to know... the whole notion of Justice is thrown out the window.


Now, most would say these are personal opinion issues with those who are taking (or not taking) the pledge.
Remember though, a pledge can be used as a legality. At least it used to be a legally binding statement, judges have not used it as such for decades now, but it can be used again should the country need to use it to back you into a corner.


Here in Canada, we used to have to recite a pledge... it was a LONG time ago... but we used to have to pledge Allegiance to the Queen of England.
We got rid of that. For obvious reasons.
Now we pledge to no-one.

THAT, my friend is indicative of Freedom.

Pledges are oaths of servitude... not something a free country is supposed to have.

Scarlett1125, I have to disagree with your comments, "When we start allowing the government or any other person of authority tell us how we can and cannot express our disagreement, then we become something other than Americans--something other than a democracy."

School Children are not people who have reached the age of majority yet. They cannot legally sign contracts, drive a car, or drink alcohol. The kids in question were in Middle School, so they were probably not over the age of 15.

By the precepts handed down from our founding fathers, these kids are supposed to follow the instructions of their educators. When they reach the age of majority THEN they can decide if they want to snub their noses at (or spit in the faces of) all of those who have fought (and died) for their right to do so.

Unfortunately, society today does not want rules of ANY kind--unless it is to tell Christians or those scientists who believe in intelligent design (because their research leads them in that direction) to shut up.

The next logical step in the evolution of thinking society does not NEED any archaic rules is that we should turn all the criminals--including murderers and rapists -- loose, because they were just doing things that THEY felt like doing at the time.

reply to post by johnsky


Sorry John, but I have to disagree with you comment: "1. Under God.

With all the different religions working to build that country into what it has become today"

And what has it become? A warzone. Those who try to sow the seeds of anarchy because they CAN.

You continuted with, "... you'd think they'd show some leniency with the religious enforcement."

This country was founded by Christians who were tired of being persecuted by the aristocracy of Europe--telling them how they had to worship God.

The founding fathers were Christians. They lived their lives, and created a form of government which would allow them (and ALL other faiths) to pursue their religious beliefs as they saw fit to do. Infusing said government with Christian beliefs and MORAL VALUES. (Something present society knows nothing about.)

And once again, the factions who do not believe the way that Christians do have begun ostracizing and persecuting the Christians and even respected scientists whose research points them towards Intelligent Design.

People seem to have an irrational fear that Intelligent Design might in fact be real, and don't even want to open a dialogue. Choosing instead to believe in a theory which is not supported by science. True, there are variations among species, but not to the extent Darwinists hope.

The intolerance is here, although people like to cloak it in other terms: "Politcal Correctness", "Darwinist Evolution", and "Religious Freedom".

I can understand both sides of this debate. But I think that ATS represents one of most basic freedoms and that is freedom of speech. I dont doubt for one second that as divided as this country is, that should an invasion occur, each and every one of us would be right there fighting. Thats the common bond here. Long live the revolution!

Sorry John, I must also disagree with your comments, "Quite frankly, when you're locking people up and torturing them simply to find out if they have anything you might want to know... the whole notion of Justice is thrown out the window."

Um...this was uncovered, and those responsible were held accountable. This was NOT a PRESIDENT George W. Bush conspiracy or a coverup, nor was the whole military responsible. (Unlike the previous Mafia Crime Boss we had as president: Bill Clinton. With all the evidence against HIM and HIS cronies, it's amazing that no one has brought down the Clinton Crime Family yet. DOZENS of "Suicides...by gunshot wound to the BACK of the head", insider trading, and sex scandals...yeah, give me a break!--And now his WIFE wants back into that lifestyle. She probably ran the whole thing--using Bill as her puppet.)

No one sees what is really happening?

Children no longer have the right to protest by refusing to swear allegiance.

After all, if you disagree with the way your country is being run, why the *snip* should you swear allegiance to it, when the people running it are supposed to be the representatives of it?

It is a sad day in American history when children are not allowed to voice their dissatisfaction with their country's progress simply because they cannot finish their education if they voice their concerns.

The American pledge may not always have been an element of social subversion, but by golly - It is now!

[edit on 12-5-2008 by Anti-Tyrant]

You guys are turning this ant hole into a mountain. No right have been taken away, in fact when I remember being a kid, out of respect I used to stand up for our anthem. These kids have no respect for the country they live in. "It's their right not to stand?, It's what we fought for?" Give me a break. You're all telling me as kids you did not stand for the national anthem? These kids now a days are all drama queens, that is why we have shows like "The Real World", "The Hills", and etc. They all love drama!

The pledge is just a saying, it has no real meaning if the kids saying don't mean it.

When I was supposed to recite the pledge, I never stood or said it because I didn't believe in it. I'm never going to pledge allegiance to a flag.

Originally posted by Equinox99
These kids have no respect for the country they live in. "It's their right not to stand?, It's what we fought for?" Give me a break.

Nah mate, you'll get your break in half an hour.

You say they have no respect for the country they live in, but in all honesty what they've actually done seems to show the opposite.

If they had no respect, they would not have bothered to refuse to say the pledge.

I think the case may be they have no respect for the school authorities if a lack of respect can be found anywhere at all.

Their actions speak to me of desperation in the face of the obscenity that is the failure of the western world, and even if it is just over-dramatized, the sentiment is felt.