Hard Numbers: The Economy Is Much Worse Than You Know!

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

Hell people cant even practice their own religion or ways of life without the government knocking down the doors and taking children and family Waco and Eldorado Tx

See, this one is where you lose me. If someone's religion and/or way of life includes pedophilia, then there's a major problem with that. That isn't just being said as a moral standpoint, but also as a common sense standpoint. We restrict, with virtually no complaint or argument against it, those under the age of 17/18 from going to an adult movie, purchasing overly violent video games, parental advisory music, firearms, tobacco, and it jumps up to 21 in the case of alcohol. We do this for many reasons, one of the primary ones being that science demonstrates their brains haven't developed enough to make intelligent decisions about things like that. For the life of me I don't see how anyone can use a group of pedophiles being arrested in a government raid as justification for removal of our rights.

Is there pedophilia? Can you prove it? Has there been a trial? Hey if they are raping 10 year olds then they need to go to jail. BUT THEY NEED A TRIAL AND THIS GUILTY BEFORE PROVEN INNOCENT NEEDS TO STOP!!!!! Im not sure how clear I can make that. That is my point give them their day in court punish the ones who are bad and let the others live their lives. Dont round them all up, punish them, then do a media blitz that they are raping 10 year olds when so far there has been NO proof at all. In fact even the media has said the pregnant girls have all been 18 to 22. Constitution my friend it was written for a reason.

For all of you who think this economy is going to turn around, YOUR SMOKING CRACK!!!! We are starting the downward spiral into the abyss, and our way of life WILL BE ABORTED!!! Read this article. You can find plenty of others from world reknown economists (Schiff, Roubini, etc.) who do not share a rosey outlook. Derivatives are unwinding (MBIA, AMBAC, etc.) and bank LIBOR rates are going through the roof - there will be a MAJOR credit collapse within the not too distant future, with a VERY HIGH probability that we will enter into a Great Depression. Stock pile food, PM's and other resources.

Also keep this in mind - Congress is voting on recalling ALL coinage, with the express idea of minting new STEEL coins. This is because base metal values are exceeding coin face values. This is bad!!! You can hedge against this by going to your bank and trading FRN's (Fed Reserve Notes) for an equivalent value of coins. Hold onto these in the event you need them.


www.shadowstats.com...

[edit on 13-5-2008 by pityocamptes]

Undermeasurement of inflation, in particular, hangs over our heads like a guillotine. To acknowledge it would send interest rates climbing, and thereby would endanger the viability of the massive buildup of public and private debt (from less than $11-trillion in 1987 to $49-trillion last year) that props up the American economy. Moreover, the rising cost of pensions, benefits, borrowing, and interest payments — all indexed or related to inflation — could join with the cost of financial bailouts to overwhelm the federal budget

Five years ago I had read the statement that every person in America (regardless of age or income) owes 20 thousand dollars if the country's debt was equally split amongst its citizens. I found that to be an alarming figure when I first read it.

If the 49 trillion dollar figure quoted above is true, then the amount owed by each and every American is an even more alarming 163 thousand dollars.

Is there anyone else think that this is perhaps a good time to panic?

Originally posted by wutone
In this world, the economy is being reshuffled too much for an average person to know what "living in their means" actually is. This has nothing to do with changing technology either.

Heh. Back in 2005 my wife and I made a hard decision: whether or not she could take a year off of work. Well, we did some number crunching, and even adjusting for inflation we thought we could do it. We had some money saved back, and though it would be close--even if no major appliances broke down--we thought we could do it.

Well...you know what happened. Hurricane Katrina hit the Southeast, energy costs went through the roof, there were all sorts of things that shipped via the Mississippi that skyrocketed...by the end we were blessed to have family who was better off than us who was willing to help. Through their generosity we were able to keep our house.

We got back on our feet more or less by the beginning of this year. Great timing, huh?

Today, at the office I work in, we got an ominous email from a regional guy. Looks like there might be layoffs in the future? Pisses me the hell off, too. They're one of those typical companies who, until just a few months ago, was one of those that doesn't seem to know how to do anything other than grow via acquisitions and mergers. I won't say who it is or what line of work I'm in because I'm probably saying enough to get fired right there, even though if you know who it is, all the info is public (they're a publicly-traded company.)

Anyway...no, not everyone who has it good right now thinks things are going fine and dandy. Some of us knew that things were going sour during the Clinton years and continued to get sour during the Bush years. Bush's people can talk a mean game about how bad the Clinton administration screwed the pooch, but they had this party-majority license to run roughshod over the country, and didn't use it for anything that seems to be meaningful.

Having said all that, my wife and I, right now at least, are doing okay. Not great but okay. We're able to live within our means and are hoping and praying for a miracle. It looks like there's intense interest in getting a short-term and long-term energy plan in place, like there's a commitment to cleaning up the environment, to get businesses back in the country (though sadly they're businesses like Chinese companies who find South Carolina to be cheaper than back home), and although the past few months have been a disaster for the economy, our trade deficit has been shrinking for several months.

Things are painful now, and if there is one bright point in all this, it's clear that there will be record turnout in the next election, and that people care more about the Presidential race than about American Idol. Hopefully there won't be any convenient "terrorist activity" or "times of turmoil" that allows the current admin to set the Constitution aside...I've been looking forward to that a-hole Bush being gone for eight years now

Originally posted by iiinvision
Wealth doesn't necessarily equal greed, but most people don't understand how the mind works. The richest people do and they exploit that fact. The evidence?
Look around you..
how long could you survive without a paycheck?
A year?
A month?
Two weeks?

Its time people wake up to the truth about money.

My own feeling is that there is something deeply wrong with wealthy people.

I'm serious!

I was looking through comments on MarketWatch and someone had said something about how people should be frightened that the American economy basically only works if people spend money and keep money in circulation.

Duh! Finally, someone with a clue!

My feeling is that the greed factor totally overrides any common sense in some people. I live on a modest income, we have a two-income household, have a mortgage that we overpay as often as possible, and are more or less happy with our situation. Anyone living above poverty and in good health in America should be healthy, as you're living well beyond the norm for the world's population.

And the economy indeed only works if people keep money in circulation. If I decide I want some beer instead of water, I go somewhere to buy some beer. My money goes toward paying bills at the store, taxes, living wages, and so on. The people on payroll take that money and spend it either at that store or elsewhere. By using that money on things we want and need, we give it to someone else who, in turn, uses that money one things they want and need. If any of us are smart about it, we'll save a percentage of it, or keep close ties to family that will be willing to help in our old age, or both, plus an amount to make sure we have food and shelter during a period of unemployment.

Obscenely rich people, however, and despite usually living a very posh lifestyle, have a hoarding mentality. The thought process likely goes something like this: I've earned this money, therefore I'll keep as much as I possibly can, and in the meantime will work as hard as possible to attain more. In the meantime, that money is out of circulation and not going back into other peoples' hands. In other words, it's not trickling down, and anyone who expects it to is a fool.

There's a very obvious flaw in this mindset, and it's a shame that most wealthy people cannot see past their own greed to identify their own mental illness. Yes, I said mental illness.

Anyone with a lick of sense would realize that it would be in their best interest to keep their fellow man comfortable and fed, because it means a much lower likelihood of insurrection.

Yet, wealthy people keep amassing obscene amounts of "money."

I realize I've ignored things like inflation, savings interest rates, etc. They're largely irrelevant to the discussion, though.

So, let's not glorify the wealthy, as it's apparent there's something wrong with them.

Click here for more information.

Peak oil is a myth. Oil is Everywhere on this planet. Don't buy the hype. Artificial scarcity is VERY Lucrative. The oil cartel is price fixing. The US owns 1/3 of the published oil reserves of the world. Now think, yet the spigot is turned off in Iraq. hmmm....That coupled with our government printing money like there is no tomorrow is a deliberate attempt to implode our economy so the trillionaires can come in and buy up whatever it is they don't already own. Our country has already missed the revolution. The enemy is wrapped in the flag. Prep now brothers and sisters. And whatever you do, don't sell any of your survival gear nor talk about to anyone. Beans and Bullets

reply to post by jackinthebox

I still have yet to see or personally know someone who gets up and goes to work who can not buy the basics they need to survive. I know at least 20 people who work for just above minimum wage, here in Oregon the minimum wage is $7.25/hr, they are making around $9 and still get by just fine, yeah they may have one roommate to make life easier but they don't have credit card payments and have not driven themselves into debt. And jack I feel bad about some of the things I said about you so I am sorry, but sometimes I don't think your stories add up, calling you a liar was wrong unless you really are, I will never know and I don't have the time to backtrack your posts that contradict your story, so since I have no proof I will stop. But I did get a kick out of the threat of suing for defamation. So i will stop thinking of you as a liar and just settle on plain ol' shifty.

I feel alot better about my situation

I just got offered a CAD/Drafting job today $24/hr + benefits. The medical benefits package rawks.

I'm really lucky though because without my sugar momma I'd been screwed while I was in school. The wife is the real moneymaker lol. We've been relying on her income and my government disability check (i'm a disabled veteran).

-ChriS

I receive a military retirement check every month for my service.

Also, I don't watch any TV at all except videos that I rent because I have PTSD. The only thing I actually know and feel about the economy is gas prices. Other than that I don't really hear anything about the economy except what I read about on BBC Online and what I read here.

It occurs to me that the media is trying to make us feel frightened about the economy even though it might not be affecting every one of us directly.

It seems like a scare tactic that is just trying to elicit some type of response from Joe Average. I don't play the stock market and I don't care about Reality Shows. So far this thing about a terrible economy hasn't touched me. I wonder what other "Joe Average" types think about this.

If you're a person with a lot of stress or a specific disorder I would encourage you to stop watching TV for one week. You'll be surprised at how much better you feel. And you can always get the latest news from BBC Online like I do without having any newscasters yelling in your ear. You'll notice a huge difference in your overall attitude. Just try it.

Originally posted by Quazga
reply to post by Stumpy1

 

Stumpy, you fail to understand that capitalism is a game played by rules. You want everyone to follow those rules, and assume all is well. However, when the rules stop serving the individual, rage will ensue, and then you will have someone busting into your house, raping your family and taking your stuff.

This is why Theodore Roosevelt brokered many deals with big business. He knew one thing for certain, if you did not make sure that poverty remained below a certain level, then the masses would rise up and revolt. This isn't about liberal bleeding hearts, this is about being able to allow those who have acquired wealth through the means of capitalism to maintain that wealth without a ever increasing fear of the poor.

I don't understand why some people can't see the logic in reducing poverty. Not from a humanitarian perspective, but simply from a perspective of greed. If you are greedy, then you will *want* to make sure there is a cap on poverty so your stuff is safer.

There is nothing wrong with reducing poverty. Many of the people who live in poverty in this country are there because of their own choice, they have a choice to try to succeed but don't take the initiative to do so. So alleviating poverty is pretty much a dream, unless you suggest that we hand out money to the lazy bastards who choose not to work or choose to live off of the government. Capitolism is based on checks and balances and supply and demand. The ultra poor and poverty "sticken" just don't fit into this picture and never will until they choose to. One who gets a job at a fast food restaurant for minimum wage has every opportunity to advance within that system but most are just fine with being a fry cook. There are also those who don't have the potential to advance or hold jobs because they are mental voids, but I have yet no answer to that problem, so there will always be a deficit of some sort. As far as those who choose crime as a means to better their plight, that's fine just as long as they understand that they can't cry about it when I kneecap one of them who tries to steal from me.

The real numbers are available at shadowstats.com. Some investors wanted the real numbers and real analysis when the government began jerking with the figures and they provide it for a fee. You can read their public summaries here - www.shadowstats.com...

Real inflation at 7%, actually over 11% using 1980 methodology. Real Retail Sales Contracted an Annualized 4.2% in First Quarter.

Over the long term the real inflation rate will be just under the money supply growth which is over 16%.

Real unemployment, discouraged, and involuntary part-time underemployment is now 13%.

I occasionally blog about this stuff. We are going to Hell-in-a-handbasket and it is getting impossible to hide no matter how much they lie.

www.shadowstats.com...
www.shadowstats.com...
elemming2.blogspot.com...

This might seem a little off topic so, I apologize in advance.... watching local news here in Orange County California and there was a story about the coming mosquito worries...

Seems, because of all the recently foreclosed homes in the LA and Orange County basin that have pools in the back yard a health hazard has been created. The pools sit, stagnant. No filter running keeping the water flowing and clean. Occupants walk, and the water stagnates where it becomes a great place for mosquitos to breed. The story was about how vector control has to put mosquito fish to kill the mosquitos. With the fear of west nile virus looming over our heads vector control is putting these fish in as many pools as they can find to stop the mosquito problem from getting out of hand.

I am not saying were on the edge of economic collapse but, I am saying things are worse than a lot of people realize. We haven't even come half way to the end of this downward spiral. We have seen a 27% decrease in property value since the 2005 peak. Think about this, all the people that are in the middle of the foreclosure process as we speak. We wont see these numbers for months. Banks are going to continue to take hit after hit until they have to come up with other ways to make the money back. this will result in higher interest rates on all your credit cards and higher fees. Think it's getting hard to get a loan now with 650 credit score? Wait 6 months.

The thing people aren't understanding is this. Low interest rates and easy to get loans drove the market up to a ridiculous and fake value. if you bought a condo in 1997 for 100,000.00 in Southern California it was worth 525,000.00 at the peak in 2005. Many homeowners during that 8 yr climb in value said "hey, I just made 425,000.00" "Im gonna refinance and take out 100,000.00 so I can get a new pool and a new gas guzzlin hummer" Many of these people kept refinancing, over and over till they owed what the market said there house was worth. No big deal right? gotta nice house, got an adjustable rate payment i can afford< and the mall is 1 mile away.

Well, we all know what happened, rates came up and people couldn't afford to make their mortgages. No rocket science there. The real problem though is all the money they were all spending. All that FAKE MONEY based off unreal values drove the economy for 8 years.

Shoes, hats, cars, houses, vacations, food, recreation, motorcycles, landscaping, construction, music, manufacturing. ALL sides of the business world were growing.... but, what happens when all theses companies, all these industries who are used to this income don't have the never ending supply of money coming in anymore. they are forced to lay-off, close doors,

We were all living on borrowed money, not just the people who got into the lousy loans but, all of us. We worked, we got paid to do our jobs. We were busy because the cash cow was giving it up. Too bad it was fake... bets hedged on an ever growing real estate market.

And this, is why i find it scary. I can't see an easy way out of this. If you combine this with energy, and food costs increases you cant help but wonder about the state of our economic future

rant rant rant!!!

reply to post by iiinvision

Bingo you are so right I wish more people would wake up and understand this . Money. Just a tool right. Learn how to use it. People give up to easy. We have the power to change this whole situation so get moving people quit the poor me attitudes and get moving . Thanks once again you are so right.

reply to post by Stumpy1


It must be so nice to sit in your ivory tower casting aspursions and insults on those who either do not agree with your views or are less fortunate than yourself, financially speaking. I don't suppose you have ever known what it's like to struggle to pay your bills or to be forced to decide whether you pay for gas to get to work or buy enough food to last the whole month.
Believe me when I say that I know very well what it's like and it has nothing to do with laziness or lack of incentive.

I am a disabled Viet Nam vet, who until four years ago was doing quite well, thank you, earning an above average income and living in an upscale apartment building. Then I got sick and had to take a leave of absence from my job; they promptly offered me my final paycheck and that was pretty much that. Thank God, I had saved a tidy sum in my 401k and profit sharing account but that only lasted about a year. I was unable to work and had no visable means of support and so for the next eighteen months I was homeless; I got some assistance from my family but since they were not much better of than myself, it was not much.

I did do some networking through the VA and found temporary housing and benefit counseling and was able to apply for and receive a modest disability pension which I subsidize with a part-time job; last year I made less than $10,000.00 and after rent, small quantities of groceries and my internet service, there is not a whole lot left each month. When I travel, to and from work or the store, I take public transportation; there is no discretionary income for things like movies, clothing or socializing.

But, I am content; in fact I thank God that He has seen fit to lead me to the VA and some of the other Social Service and non-profit groups that have so helped me. So, when I hear people like yourself getting all high and mighty about people "living within their means", etc, etc..blah, blah, blah, it just really pisses me off. Who the hell are you anyway? Walk a mile in another man's shoes before you make assumptions and value judgements about them.

What ever happened to just being a human being who is entitled to a little respect and dignity, no matter their economic or social standing. Have you no compassion for anyone other than yourself? What is the matter with you anyway?

Originally posted by mybigunit

Is there pedophilia? Can you prove it? Has there been a trial? Hey if they are raping 10 year olds then they need to go to jail. BUT THEY NEED A TRIAL AND THIS GUILTY BEFORE PROVEN INNOCENT NEEDS TO STOP!!!!! Im not sure how clear I can make that. That is my point give them their day in court punish the ones who are bad and let the others live their lives. Dont round them all up, punish them, then do a media blitz that they are raping 10 year olds when so far there has been NO proof at all. In fact even the media has said the pregnant girls have all been 18 to 22. Constitution my friend it was written for a reason.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

On Monday, CPS announced that almost 60 percent of the underage girls living on the Eldorado ranch either have children or are pregnant.

Of the 53 girls between the ages of 14 and 17 who are in state custody, 31 either have given birth or are expecting, Azar said.

Hmmm... imagine that! Where'd your news that they were all 18-22 come from? Please post the source so we can share a good laugh at how erroneous it was together.

As for removal of all of the children and placing them into foster care, that's pretty much common accepted procedure to remove all of the children from the home if one child is being abused from a parent or guardian within the home. As it stands right now, they can and should bring charges against any adult who not only committed pedophilia, but also any adult who knew pedophilia was occuring and did nothing as well as any adult who arrainged or performed acts to facillitate the pedophilia as accomplices to the fellonies committed there.

No constitutional rights have been violated here. Children are not property under the law, so no illegal siezure has occurred. To my knowledge, noone has been placed under arrest and jailed, yet. Child endangerment laws, my friend, look them up as they're on the books in all 50 states. My point here is that, given everything we know (including the news item above that clearly says 60% of the underage girls at the ranch had obviously engaged in underage sex), there is no such thing as an innocent adult living on that compound. They all clearly knew what was happening and were at the very least accomplices, full blown predators at the most. Speaking as a parent, I strongly question the fitness of any parent who sits idley by knowing a child, their own or someone else's, is the victim of sexual abuse and does nothing about it. If I knew something like that was happening, even if my own children weren't involved, balls would roll.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


alright we're not in a recession!!!!!!!!! stop all this bs. look up the def. of a recession.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

As it stands right now, they can and should bring charges against any adult who not only committed pedophilia, but also any adult who knew pedophilia was occuring and did nothing as well as any adult who arrainged or performed acts to facillitate the pedophilia as accomplices to the fellonies committed there.

Why the hell even go through all that trouble?? I mean, these people are clearly not dignified or intelligent as we are. They clearly live a different life than we do. So why the hell should we care if they are innocent, good people, or not?

Honestly, it sounds to me you would be cheering on another WACO incident. Let's just surround their property, and shoot machine guns into their homes while taking flamethrowers to the outside of it!

Why go through all the trouble of dealing with these people?
They were OBVIOUSLY not deserving of dignity or "justice for all".

This is America, the land of "justice", the way the government and oblivious followers see fit.

I've read most of the posts on this subject and it mirrors the history of mankind for the past several thousand years. The same old battle of the haves and the have nots. It's part of the divide and conquer strategy. It's just another tool for keeping people separate and in conflict. It's not too hard to see that government and coporations are more important and have more say than the individuals who make up those entities. It is also not too hard to see that those who have the most money or possessions control the have nots. Enslavement is a reality for the masses deceptively hidden. Those who think they have are going to find it is temporary. Money and political systems beome corrupt and eventually fail. It's about values. What is life really about? When you are educated to be a consumer and or producer in an economic system then life is about money and or possessions. We are entering a time of chaos and things will get worse but out of chaos comes change. History shows that humans will continue down the same path of self destruction unless an evolution of consciousness occurs. We have allowed pollution of ourselves and our planet for the sake of material again either in the pursuit of money or possessions. There is much more at stake here than our economy and way of living. Humanity is reaching a crossroad and if we don't choose a path then one will be chosen for us... as it seems the case. I pray we will awaken and chose a different path that is better for all of life. Life based on competition will always produce losers. It is time for a change in consciousness as to a life where what benefits one...benefits all. That's how I see it.

[edit on 14-5-2008 by Charleerich]

Originally posted by burdman30ott6


Hmmm... imagine that! Where'd your news that they were all 18-22 come from? Please post the source so we can share a good laugh at how erroneous it was together.

As for removal of all of the children and placing them into foster care, that's pretty much common accepted procedure to remove all of the children from the home if one child is being abused from a parent or guardian within the home. As it stands right now, they can and should bring charges against any adult who not only committed pedophilia, but also any adult who knew pedophilia was occuring and did nothing as well as any adult who arrainged or performed acts to facillitate the pedophilia as accomplices to the fellonies committed there.

No constitutional rights have been violated here. Children are not property under the law, so no illegal siezure has occurred. To my knowledge, noone has been placed under arrest and jailed, yet. Child endangerment laws, my friend, look them up as they're on the books in all 50 states. My point here is that, given everything we know (including the news item above that clearly says 60% of the underage girls at the ranch had obviously engaged in underage sex), there is no such thing as an innocent adult living on that compound. They all clearly knew what was happening and were at the very least accomplices, full blown predators at the most. Speaking as a parent, I strongly question the fitness of any parent who sits idley by knowing a child, their own or someone else's, is the victim of sexual abuse and does nothing about it. If I knew something like that was happening, even if my own children weren't involved, balls would roll.

www.foxnews.com...

Read up....

In fact I may do an article on this one above...

SO basically as a parent you dont mind of the cops bang down your door, take your children, take you to court and tell you guess what your children are coming with us because some lady called in and said your abusing them, and then sending you on your way with a big bottle of KY Jelly....once again the fact is your basing your whole argument on specualtion...well IF they had sex with, IF the parents knew, IF they were underage....this is my point NONE OF THIS HAS BEEN PROVEN IN COURT!!!!!! Not only that 14 to 17 year olds get have sex and get pregnant all the time outside of there and yes they know their kids are having sex maybe not who with but they know their kids are sexually active should their parents go to jail? I knew girls in middle and high school whos parents would buy them birth control and said look we know your going to do your thing we just dont want you getting pregnant here you go....should those parents be thrown in jail?

Once again like I said above if in a court of law they are found guilty of raping 10 year olds then like you said "balls need to roll" cant and wont disagree there...but dont base your whole argument on speculation...you have and msnbc article telling you one thing I have a Fixed News article telling me another and Fixed News has been dogging on these guys since the beginning.