The Way to Start the Revolution

Originally posted by devildogUSMC

When you were supporting the bad idea of an armed revolution.

It's not a bad idea. It's a bad first resort.

Also, did you see my questioning of the OPs talk about the new militia being used for "defense" and not "offense"? Clearly, I am voicing concern about an armed force, no?

Do you deny the possibility that the state of affairs could be bad enough that an armed Revolution is necessary?

Like I said, and I agree with your sentiments about knowledge, and educating The People with it, it is a bad idea only insofar that other means haven't been tried first.

I believe if things don't change, if the corruption of our Liberty maintains the same tempo, we will soon be past the "point of no return" on those means. And reach a point where we have to 'fight back'.

[edit on 123131p://9u22 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by devildogUSMC

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by devildogUSMC

 

I don't view what is being discussed here as a Revolution. No. I am thinking more drastically myself

Opposing a good idea.

You yourself are opposing many ideas the OP put out? What's your point. You're still being ambiguous.

Also, I wasn't saying it was a bad idea with that statement, I was saying I didn't view it as a Revolution. I elucidated what I mean by that earlier in a response to him. It seems more like a power swap.

reply to post by devildogUSMC


I am merely responding to the AUTHORS post and his attacks on me after I called him out for what he is... Not everyone else's as this forum was started by the author not the posters.... and I am not arguing against your ideas.. only the Authors. I even praised you for truly speaking your mind. And being a true patriot.

Originally posted by devildogUSMC

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by thefreepatriot

 

No matter what shape it takes, if you are truly a revolutionist, you will be viewed as a terrorist by anyone living in the Nation that isn't on your side. That's simply the nature of it.

Discouraging action and encouraging fear.

Encouraging fear? Because I used the buzzword "terrorist"?? Whatever man. You are missing my point, or are not educated on these matters to acknowledge it.

Revolutionists are viewed as radicals. They, in the eyes of people on the 'other side of the fence', are seen as wanting to take over and overthrow (even if their agenda is about freedom and fighting corruption in the Government) the Society they live in. It's perceived as attacks on the Nation, thus attacks on the inhabitants of that Nation. Thus viewed as terrorists, thus they are demonized. This can be seen in so many historical account, across the Globe, since the dawn of the "civilized world".

[edit on 123131p://9u46 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by thefreepatriot


Why are you looking to argue against me when I am not against you? You should learn to discern friend from foe. trust me the author of this forum is not your friend. nor are his potential employers.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


I thought you meant my idea because there were no weapons involved, my misunderstanding. And yes I do oppose any type of armed revolution ,even as a last resort, because such a thing would be unwinable. We have to work within the law to gain the most support and the least opposition.

reply to post by devildogUSMC


Well if you say within the law...you are already well out of bounds with it.. most people in this forum can now be considered "radicals" or terrorists.. ....

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Lucid you are totally correct on all counts!

Originally posted by devildogUSMC
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

We have to work within the law to gain the most support and the least opposition.

Sure. But you're thinking under the pretense that The People ultimately can work the system, and use it's Laws, to bring about a Revolution. Unfortunately that is becoming an "unwindable" avenue for citizens to use. That statement becomes more true every year. On the micro level sure. But the foundation of its structure? I think not. The corruption runs deep. At it's foundation. Money and resources are setup to ensure The People can't use the system to change the system... at least on that level. Am I making sense?

**edited to change the last sentence to "can't"

[edit on 013131p://9u54 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


I think you blew him away lucid I hope he could understand it.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
Originally posted by devildogUSMC
Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by thefreepatriot

Encouraging fear? Because I used the buzzword "terrorist"?? Whatever man. You are missing my point, or are not educated on these matters to acknowledge it.

Revolutionists are viewed as radicals. They, in the eyes of people on the 'other side of the fence', are seen as wanting to take over and overthrow (even if their agenda is about freedom and fighting corruption in the Government) the Society they live in. It's perceived as attacks on the Nation, thus attacks on the inhabitants of that Nation. Thus viewed as terrorists, thus they are demonized. This can be seen in so many historical account, across the Globe, since the dawn of the "civilized world".

[edit on 123131p://9u46 by Lucid Lunacy]

Do you think I don't know this. Do you think my idea of gaining Ron Paul's support to get the immediate attention, interest, and respect of the public while he explains that our cause is clearly and only to benefit the people directly, and that we are in no way, shape, fashion, or form, terrorists, radicals, extremists, or enemies of anyone or anything is not completely adressing this very issue? We are only advocates of the truth, and our actions and words will represent that. Coming from a current Presidential candidate, it would be difficult for anyone to label it anything that would be cause for immediate public disdain or dismissal. It would be heard, thought out, discussed, taken seriously, and ultimately supported. Unless the people actively chose to be lied to on a daily basis, knowing that the truth is out there, where it is , and that it is just as easily accessable as the lies are, there is no reason this idea should not have great success.

[edit on 9-5-2008 by devildogUSMC]

[edit on 9-5-2008 by devildogUSMC]

whats funny is that america was brought about by a war. and terrorists.

They saw it the only way to get thru to a generalized point of view... Sound familure? Sure my spelling may not, but my words are understood there by the meaning is still portrayed. America Was founded froma war, we start other wars to gain other countries independence, Yet any form or talk of that is considered terrorism, just like it was when this country was founded,

Its just talk an words put into effect to prevent theyre way of life from being revolted or revitalized.

Its like climbing up a ladder to the higher floor an pulling the ladder up an then claiming that ladder building is now considered terrorism.

Welcome to america, where you get the Appearance you have a say, but in all actuality,

You are given a chance to say something, to a small amount of people at once, while the folks with money an companies get face to face time with whom ever they wish,

Now whos laws an favors an ideas an concerns will be met 1st?
So whats our email going to do or our letter unless we enclose a blank check going to do?

Whats our soap box in the middle of ( Insert area here ) going to do other then draw attention tyo a lessar matter ( your sanity ).

Money seems to be what talks, Not the people's concerned unless it is going to become a money matter. Only in a election year do the issues of people's importance even become addressed, just to be filed away as election fodder next session, Its a Flippin game of which the american people are the shutes an ladders, Money is candy, and anyone who has the power to control a law or idea to become more then that a game peice, with the Lobbyists and companies the game players.....

Welcome to Ameriland You could have a shot at making more nothing.

Im not saying arms an weps are the answer either, since most people now adays get someone else to make their food for them, Id be surprised to see how they could even use a knife. a Unified stance together to make a point, a action a something,

But remember the 1st issue of having a problem is knowing you even have one, Which alot either see an dont think its happening to all, or they just cant see past their own nose hairs.

It would take a asteroid or a Mass UFO landing to change the way things are righht now. this world has alot of pleasure seekers bent on nothing more then making themselves feel good, an since ignorance is bliss, its a pretty hard road to see down since the few who see the problem are just able to do that, see an really do nothing more then talk about it.

this rant was brought to You an protected by the 1st Amendment of the United States Of America


[edit on 9-5-2008 by Trance Optic]

[edit on 9-5-2008 by Trance Optic]

Originally posted by devildogUSMC

Do you think I don't know this.

I was not at all suggesting that you felt everything was fine and there was no corruption. If anything I feel you undermine the gravity of the corruption.

Unless the people actively chose to be lied to on a daily basis

Yes. People actively do, every day. Hence our predicament.

knowing that the truth is out there

It is. The Powers that be police how you choose to use the Truth though

,

where it is , and that it is just as easily accessible as the lies are

Most people don't go out of their way to look at and understand the lies. Thus the same is true for truth. Hence the predicament we are in.

People don't want to meet the butcher, they want to eat the meat, and believe it isn't contaminated, because they want to believe the butcher has their safety and interests in mind.

Unfortunately... with our current Government Corporation, that is simply not so. But most either don't know the truth of it, or if they do they turn their backs and filter their minds to it, out of fear. Most people have fallen prey to apathy, hence our predicament.

there is no reason this idea should not have great success.

Yes there very much is. You just don't believe it to be so.

Corruption. That's what it means man. And when it's bad enough it spreads to the very foundation of the System, and it has. The reason these things will not succeed "enough" is because of the corruption. The methods they will use are the methods of that corrupted system. Hence so many broken promises, things never delivered to The People, when Presidents and other elected people get voted in. Will it be so different for Ron Paul? Absolutely not. We could vote in Mother Teresa herself, and horrible legislature and white-colored crimes would still run rampant. Because those crimes are encouraged and supported by the corruption that is prevalent within.

Could We the People make the change of legalizing pot? Sure, that's feasible. Can The People vote to rid themselves of the privatized, off-shore corrupt as all hell centralized bank that is now (wasn't always) the source of our economy? The founder fathers were very much in opposition to this type of banking, and viewed it as one of the biggest threats to our Nation.. Can The People vote for big changes like that? I truly think it's corrupted enough that we can't make big changes like that.

[edit on 013131p://9u05 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by devildogUSMC
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

We have to work within the law to gain the most support and the least opposition.

Sure. But you're thinking under the pretense that The People ultimately can work the system, and use it's Laws, to bring about a Revolution. Unfortunately that is becoming an "unwindable" avenue for citizens to use. That statement becomes more true every year. On the micro level sure. But the foundation of its structure? I think not. The corruption runs deep. At it's foundation. Money and resources are setup to ensure The People can't use the system to change the system... at least on that level. Am I making sense?

**edited to change the last sentence to "can't"

[edit on 013131p://9u54 by Lucid Lunacy]

No, no you are not making sense. I am not thinking under the pretense that all people can work the system, I am thinking under the pretense that some people could teach them how to if they become willing, and with the majority of the people working together peacefully and lawfully we could absolutely change anything. My idea is only to "make them an offer they can't refuse". Give them an option to get the truth just as easily as they get their lies. I have faith that if presented with the truth constantly, the American people will demand, work toward, and achieve change.

Originally posted by devildogUSMC
I have faith that if presented with the truth constantly, the American people will demand, work toward, and achieve change.

That's great. We have similar faith

Keep encouraging that.

Corruption. That's what it means man. And when it's bad enough it spreads to the very foundation of the System, and it has. The reason these things will not succeed "enough" is because of the corruption. The methods they will use are the methods of that corrupted system. Hence so many broken promises, things never delivered to The People, when Presidents and other elected people get voted in. Will it be so different for Ron Paul? Absolutely not. We could vote in Mother Teresa herself, and horrible legislature and white-colored crimes would still run rampant. Because those crimes are encouraged and supported by the corruption that is prevalent within.

Could We the People make the change of legalizing pot? Sure, that's feasible. Can The People vote to rid themselves of the privatized, off-shore corrupt as all hell centralized bank that is now (wasn't always) the source of our economy? The founder fathers were very much in opposition to this type of banking, and viewed it as one of the biggest threats to our Nation.. Can The People vote for big changes like that? I truly think it's corrupted enough that we can't make big changes like that.

[edit on 013131p://9u05 by Lucid Lunacy]

These are the very things that will change. I am not proposing to have Ron Paul elected anything or be any type of leader, just to be a volunteer and supporter like anyone else.

What do you think would bring about change?

[edit on 9-5-2008 by devildogUSMC]

People are taking this seriously?

What you need to remember is that not everyone is going to agree with you, and in many cases they may simply not feel oblidged to even if they do believe in a similar solution.

When people speak of an armed revolution, they generally forget two things; one is who is going to be armed, and the second is who exactly are we worried about so much we need automatic rifles and anti-tank ordnance.

While there are people willing to fight for something they believe in, there will always be resistance.

Be it resistance towards terrorism or resistance towards oppression.

Originally posted by devildogUSMC

These are the very things that will change. I am not proposing to have Ron Paul elected anything or be any type of leader, just to be a volunteer and supporter like anyone else.

What do you think would bring about change?

Revolution. In the truest sense of the word.

Now, my opinion about what you're doing an believe in is this: keep doing it.

I think The People should continue to do what they can within the system to bring about positive change, as you're suggesting. But I think people should prepare themselves and their families for the coming tide, when they will need to raise the ante against the corruption.

[edit on 023131p://9u29 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


You know as well as I know that as soon as the public hears of a group of people in the United states with weapons, even if kept only for defense, that oppose the goverment it will not be long before they are gone and forgot about, whatever their cause. This is why I do not believe that we need revolt in the sense you describe, as it would not succeed. All we need to do is lift the veil from the publics eyes, show them whats going on, and help them to know that they can have change if they want it. If that can happen, change can happen, no weapons necessary.

TruePatriot,

I think you're confusing who the OP is.

I'd gladly and willingly forfeit any and all "ATS Points" for this thread, if something good could come out of it.

I guess talk about "Revolution" really stir emotions, like little else can. If we look at the word in a definition sense, we will realize that a "revolution" is a full turn of something. 360 degrees. We can't go 180, because that would leave the door open to a re-corruption.

That is why I suggested the possibility of a parallel government.

I think DevilDog and I have reached an understanding. I hope we have anyway.

Another poster came on here and mentioned the term "Paultards." Does that poster really think that any other candidate running for President will stand up for the rights of the workers?

They all LOVE the current system and that's the only reason they want to be President. They will profit immensly on the back of every worker, and will send more troops to more wars to continue their financial advancement. And while the Federal Reserve system of currency value manipulation continues, the workers will soon realize that anything other than a system dictated by the Constitution allows the current policies to continue and cause our ultimate demise...Everyone...not just the union workers, not just any specific group. Everybody!

Maybe if we do nothing before it's too late, everything will work itself out, because with the way things are going, noone will have anything! And thus put an end to greed.

But I for one would like to, if possible, do something to fix what we are now faced with, and if we don't fix things, our children will have to.

[edit on 9-5-2008 by cryingindian]