The Way to Start the Revolution

reply to post by SIEGE


We do not need a "rebirth". There is no such thing. This country was born and it is what it is. It is where it's people have taken it and let it be taken. Either we can take it in another direction more favorable to all by peaceful and intelligent means, or we can destroy it completely with violence and disorder. This is a new age. I doubt we can handle JDAM's, surgical air-strikes, armored vehicles, and madmen giving the orders. You can't just go up against the most powerful and most technologically advanced military in the world with homemade ammo and small arms. It would be a catastrophe worse than iraq. Your group would fair just as well as the insurgents, and it would be American civilians dying all over the place. And not to mention this would surely be a perfect excuse for some good old martial law. What happens when the "confederacy" is beaten. Martial law and more power for the "old government".

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by cryingindian

To answer a couple of questions, the "militia" would be used only for DEFENSE against the empirical loyalists if it was needed.

And thank you for your reply to mine

But you didn't answer my question. What is the nature of that word "against" in this context. And within the context that this is a well-armed Militia.

and would only be used to prevent loss of our propeties, rights, and any infringement on our "pursuit of happiness." The militia would not be used for offense.

Can you give actual examples of this? Examples of how this newly formed Militia would "prevent the loss of..." and at the same time not be used for 'offense'?..

To answer your question, the militia would be used only to defend our property when the "Old Government" followers have nothing due to the collapse of the monopoly dollars they use in their "Old Economy." One scenario would be a desheveled character grabbing carrots out of my garden gets a patch of shot sprayed on his back, because through hard work and foresight, I've created a prosperous garden, and then some guy comes onto my property because he and his family is hungry, but he's done nothing but consume the way the "Old Government" wanted him to, and the "Old Dollar" has collapsed, and now he has nothing.

It's an illustration in a smaller sense of what has happened under our current government, and it's course, where the people work hard, but the corporations who are politically connected grab up the dollars while they still have value. Then they hoard the dollars with some value, and the people have to by consumer goods with de-valued currency. They do the work, but end up with dollars of lesser value in exchange for their service.

So if some "Old Government" loyalist zombie comes to grab my carrots, he'll be looking down the barrel of an over/under 12 gauge.

[edit on 7-5-2008 by cryingindian]

reply to post by devildogUSMC


The phrase "It is what it is" was on Maxim's Lamest things list right before purse dogs.

This is not a "Revolution" in the "Independence from the King of England" sense. It is a PARALLEL GOVERNMENT, who would actually work for the American people in the interest of the COMMON GOOD.

Maybe this idea I've proposed is just a new way of thinking to realize what's wrong with America, and how far we've veered from the intent of the Founding Fathers.

Let's try to take the country back, not through violence, but through a choice for Freedom and Constitutional Government.

The way it is isn't the way it should be.

reply to post by devildogUSMC


What do you mean "we do not need a rebirth...There is no such thing"? I think there is such a thing, but I come from a christian upbringing. Have you ever heard of being "Born again?"

Here's the deal: The baby boomers (my mom and dad) just accepted the way things were. I'm a member (I think) of "Generation X," which is supposed to be the generation with no direction and nothing to offer to America.

I'm here to say that I DO have something to offer to America. And having been awakened by Dr. Ron Paul, I've come to realize how broken our current system is, and how the current system is influenced ONLY by GREED. I'm not here to get a peace of their pie, I'm here to offer my three children a fighting chance against bloated and corrupt government, and empirical views when we TRUELY CAN'T AFFORD it.

How are our children supposed to pay the debt we're leaving them? Espescially when the value of the dollar is dropping every day? We need to do SOMETHING to fix things.

And it's fine if people like GradyPhilpot suggest to us to vote, contact your representatives, and follow the examples given in civic textbooks from the 50's. It's his choice to blindly follow the political rhetoric that is spewed by the mainstream media, but I see through it, and am troubled by what I see.

I'm prior service as a Combat Medic in the US Army. I'm good with the M16, .45 caliber, gernades, etc. and am not afraid of my current government. I took an oath to uphold and defend the US Constitution, and I know what the Constitution says.

And anyone who has died under the same pretenses, of fighting for freedom, will have died in vain (and has, the way things are right now) because the freedoms they fought for have been squandered by the GREED and CORRUPTION that the current Federal Government has been infiltrated by.

Look at Arlington National Cemetary. Lots of graves there. Those guys did not die for the way things have become.

Hope this makes sense.

And another thing...

I'd be happy at this point with ABSOLUTE TRANSPARENCY with our current government.

I'll stand down if the Freedom of Information Act was something that made a difference. But I see posting HERE daily that that idea has loopholes.

If we (as AMERICAN CITIZENS [or WE THE PEOPLE]) had the FREEDOM to KNOW WHAT OUR GOVERNMENT is doing or has done to our CONSTITUTION and CIVIL LIBERTIES, we probably wouldn't be wasting our time on sites like ATS. We'd be enjoying the fruits of our labor, living in FREEDOM and not FEAR.

I'm sick of the current administration HIDING BEHIND ISSUES OF "NATIONAL SECURITY" because the way I see it, ANY POLICY OR ACT BY OUR GOVERNMENT is an ISSUE of NATIONAL SECURITY, because our CONSTITUTION was set up to PREVENT TYRANY. And our efforts to contribute to the GDP has done nothing but PROMOTE GREED by the POWERS THAT ARE NOW.

I'm saying let's PEACFULLY TAKE THINGS BACK BY OFFERING A CHOICE TO THE AMERICAN CITIZENS (Many of whom don't even realize how bad things are, due to the daily fight thay face just to keep afloat financially) by creating, THROUGH SHEER DETERMINATION AND NO VIOLENCE, to OPT OUT OF THE CURRENT COURSE, with money backed by something of value, and that cannot be hoarded at the top, by offshore corporations and tax breaks for sending AMERICAN JOBS overseas.

I was talking with an aquantance today who cleans our offices. He said that there's been a raise freeze in his company for a while now. He said that a lot of the people he works with now almost CAN'T AFFORD TO GO TO WORK, BECAUSE A GALLON OF GAS ALMOST COSTS AS MUCH AS THEY GET PAID FOR AN HOUR'S WORK. THis illustrate that there's something WRONG, and I invite others to open their eyes to see THAT THIS ISN'T THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE IN AMERICA!

reply to post by cryingindian


OK. you obviously either aren't reading my posts, or don't understand what I am telling you. Listen, you say peacefully yet you speak of militias, ammunition, and weapons. You say you were in the army, I won't hold that against you, USMC obviously, but anyway you should know then; as soon as someone is holding a weapon or performing tasks of a military nature, they become a combatant. You will be the domestic enemies by law and definition. You and your "parallel government" will be combatants. You will be breaking laws and you will be armed. Even if you are in a completely defensive posture, you will be fired on. You and your milita will return fire, no doubt, and BOOM you are all dead and imprisoned or if you managed to build up a significantly sized force, which I seriously doubt, a civil war. You are not considering the consequences of your ideas. I by no means think anything is fine in this country. We absolutely need to change almost everything. ALMOST EVERYTHING. No rebirth. Those men who lie in Arlington did not die for a "confederacy". THEY DIED FOR AMERICA. The constitution should absolutely be adhered to, except for maybe the 14th amendment. You need to think things through. Your heart is in the right place and you are right about everything being wrong, but the methods you propose to achieve this much needed change are more than flawed and not thought through. It is great that you want change and are willing to fight for what you believe, but you need to understand that the way you wish to go about this will not work. You speak alot of how you will put your plan into action, but then what? Really think about it. Are you sure this is the way?

[edit on 7-5-2008 by devildogUSMC]

reply to post by devildogUSMC


I won't hold the fact that you're a (self-proclaimed) "Brain-Dead" Marine against you. My twin brother was in the Marines and "Quit." I'd love to meet you face to face to "discuss" which branch of the military is tougher.

Maybe you just can't absorb was my proposal states. It's not an attempt to overthrow anything. It's not an attempt to start a "civil war." It's an idea which, if brought into effect, would be an option to any American citizen who didn't agree with the current course to OPT the F OUT.

I don't live in fear. So I say if my government's military (of which I was formerly a member) wants to gun me down, and "fire the first shot" then there's even more reason to take measures to change the current course, because all I'm proposing is the formation of a PARALLEL GOVERNMENT which abides by the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, which all prior service members fought for. American citizens aren't supposed to live in fear of their government's retaliation for freedom of speech or organization, regardless of our current status of "in time of war."

You have to agree that the fact that you'd even consider the use of the military against an American citizen is wrong. And the more we cowtow to those fears, the worse things will become for our children.

I'm a FREEDOM LOVING, PEACE LOVING AMERICAN CITIZEN. Nothing more...Nothing Less.

reply to post by devildogUSMC


The 14th amendment is outside of the Bill of Rights. I propose that the ORIGINAL CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS should be reinstated, and all the other political BS should be appealed.

Amendment II allows what I've proposed, in terms of the militia.

I have read this entire thread.The point that some here are missing is,That if the normal everyday citizen has reached the point where he is willing to take up arms to defend the constitution against what is considered a corrupt government.Then the Government needs to reaccess itself.
We the people,still have the power to affect change.Bitching on forum posts won't get the job done.Write your Representatives and Senators.Pass petitions for redress of greivances.
If you really want to get the governments attention,hit them where it hurts.In the wallet.Cut back on things that you have to pay taxes on,if enough people do this the government has to take note.

It's sad to say but IMO there will be a civil war in this country.Might vs Right. The only way we will overcome is if the government has bigger fish to fry.Like a major war.Solid citizens need to start taking office where they can.Take this country by consent not by force. Write in Ron Paul

did someone say Revolution?

count me in, but since im in Australia and due to the Port Arthur incident (which led to the disarmament of the country) i need a firearm first for protection from evil laws and politicians.

In my opinion, any attempt at secession, in a military superpower, absolutely requires the support of a large military force of its own, and I believe it would be absolutely necessary to infiltrate the US military at a grass-roots level. If actual foot-soldiers can be convinced of the errors of their superior's ways then having the largest military in the world means nothing. If we could convince the military's fighting men and women that they are being used by an evil cartel of amoral super-elites intent on destroying freedom, America would cease to have any power whatsoever. This same notion applies to local police as well. If we could show them how they have been duped into violating their oaths to the U.S. Constitution and citizenry they would render the military inert. However, so long as fighting forces such as the police and military exist there is precious little hope.

Despite this, I believe that as a freedom-loving human it is my duty to fight for freedom and liberty should they be threatened. So I lend my full support to an anti-elitist pro-democracy movement, regardless of its chances of success. I firmly believe that only small groups of truly committed people can accomplish radical change. The true founders of this nation, the men who took up arms against the British Crown in the name of freedom, recognized that some sacrifices are truly worth making. It is my belief that the guardians of democracy have recognized this truth and it is what enabled them to defy the status quo. It is true that freedom isn't free, the cost indeed can be dire, but the cost of slavery is far greater still. If we are to commit ourselves to the task of the creation of a new American state founded on democratic ideals we must do so with no romantic illusions.

I think the first step should be to redraft the Declaration of Independence to more accurately describe our state of affairs (though to an extent the original seems to uncannily well). This is tantamount, in the eyes of the powers-that-be, and the masses which they control, to treason, just as it was in 1776.

Originally posted by cryingindian
reply to post by devildogUSMC

 

My twin brother was in the Marines and "Quit." I'd love to meet you face to face to "discuss" which branch of the military is tougher.

Ok medic, I've been trying to treat you with respect, although you don't deserve it, and you want to get tough with me?
I was 0311 infantry 26th MEU USMC, you were an army medic; I don't think it is even up for discussion who's tougher, nor is it relavent. And the fact that your weak twin brother was a #bird has no bearing on anything except that you probably are one too.

because all I'm proposing is the formation of a PARALLEL GOVERNMENT which abides by the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, which all prior service members fought for.

Neither myself, nor any other prior service member has ever fought for a "PARALLEL GOVERNMENT" which abides by the constitution. You do not even realize how foolish you are, and it saddens me. If you weren't such a coward and a fool, instead of starting your own little parallel government that is going to fail miserably if you dare ever try it, you would work to initiate something that might actually change things for the better of everyone, like your hero that you are undermining and ultimately are a thorn in the side of, Ron Paul, who I do support completely.

You have to agree that the fact that you'd even consider the use of the military against an American citizen is wrong. And the more we cowtow to those fears, the worse things will become for our children.

When did I say that I would, and how could you think that I could, have the power to use the military against an American citizen or anything or anyone else? I am not in the Marines anymore, and if I was I'm pretty sure corporals still don't have that much pull. And now you care about "our children", I think you meant your children and the children of whoever decides to join you, because anyone elses children, to you, are just ''loyalists."

I'm a FREEDOM LOVING, PEACE LOVING AMERICAN CITIZEN. Nothing more...Nothing Less.

You are indeed much more and much less. See you around, medic.

[edit on 8-5-2008 by devildogUSMC]

reply to post by EtSolveMundi


Yeah redraft it. Are you kidding me? I don't understand how you people make it through the week.

This thread is a great testament to the fact that, while not entirely perfect, we still live in one of the greatest countries in the world here in the US and we are fortunate to enjoy more freedoms than most.


How do I know this? Because I can think of at least two dozen countries off the top of my head in which you would be immediately imprisoned, shot or executed for even remotely hinting at ideas like the ones being presented and discussed in this thread.



But that's irony for ya.

reply to post by BlackOps719


Who knows though, they might go get him. I would not miss him. They might be on the way to his house right now. They might have him already, I don't see him on.

reply to post by devildogUSMC


Well the author of the Declaration of Independence would be in full support of an American Revolution

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


A revolution yes. What this guy is trying to do, no. No way. No way in hell. You kidding me? Sorry, one line. I'll fix it. You have to be kidding me.

[edit on 8-5-2008 by devildogUSMC]

reply to post by devildogUSMC


Seems that you must have a better idea.
Care to enlighten us?

reply to post by sizzle


I did a while back. A couple posts or a couple pages. You can find it. Also, it is a much better and more feesable idea. It would not ruin the country or get everyone involved killed or imprisoned either. Granted, I haven't mapped out a complete plan or have any intentions on implementing it. I don't have to have a better plan to say his won't work or is a horrible idea, do I? I say we end the food and gas crisis by peeing in the ocean and lighting our feet on fire; If you don't have a better plan ready, mine is good and we should do it.

[edit on 8-5-2008 by devildogUSMC]

Here you go Sizzle

Originally posted by devildogUSMC
reply to post by cryingindian

 

The only outcome that could possibly come from a proposition such as this is complete and utter disaster. BAD IDEA, NO CIVL WAR!!! What we need is unity, not division, and in order to achieve unity we need to get people informed. Whence people are informed and realize that we all have a common interest to abolish certain systems that are not working and create new systems that do work, they will realize the need to get involved. Whence we are united, informed, and involved, all working toward the common goal of developing new working systems to replace the ones that don't work, and make sure they work for the good of everyone, we will be on our way to change. Making guns and ammo? Hoarding money and valuables? Hoarding food? Militas?

I think your heart may be in the right place, but an armed revolution is not an option. That will set the stage for disatser, without a doubt, and set us back further than we are right now. We wan't to move forward. I'm not claiming to have a plan of my own; I don't. "The People" need to make a plan of their own to fix matters for "The People". It cannot be done by a small fanatical group, or even a large fanatical group. What the small, informed, and strong-hearted groups need to be concentrating on is bringing people together, informing them, and getting them involved in fixing our nation. The most important factor in all of this will be a trusted, intellegent, unbiased, truly objective media paid for directly by the people and operated by the people. PLEASE DON'T START A CIVIL WAR.