Shards of the Illuminati

reply to post by eventHorizon


Actually your post touches on several points which prevents me from discussing this because of internal security, however this information is decent, if not only slightly off. If certain details changed, certain implementations, and the word "control" was changed to "influence," then it woudl be near dead accurate.

- Maban

To emsed1

I agree with this thought and was thinking along the same lines but your post is worded so much better than I ever could.

There is a balance in life and when you consider the opposing forces willingness to use every means at their disposal and the other side being more, not passive, but looking for non destructive means, honorable means to many peoples ways of thinking ,to combat it, you know that that those
who can not go beyond the bounds of their conscious will never win. Maban's group, it seems to me, is a balance of the two, trying to insure life, nature, takes it's course without manipulation. I don't think I am saying this well but hopefully my point will be understood.

You are wise for your age Maban.

Maban I apologize if you’ve already answered this question.

What do you think of Rosicrucian? Is this really a secret society that freemasonry stems from? Do you think the current societies are legit and play a role in social engineering? What do you think of their manifestos and origins? Do you believe it may be a hoax?

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


One problem with Rosicrucianism (like Knights Templar) is that there are so many groups claiming the title.

I think you mean AMORC? I believe they are based near San Jose in California.

Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me".

Maban says that [paraphrase] some people [like me] make the "mistake" of placing more importance on the messenger than the message.

In most, if not all, other cases I would agree. But when someone says "I am the way the truth and the life" it surely becomes impossible to correctly place more importance on the message than the messenger?

Logic:

If [like some say] the human writers of the bible [in this specific case John] took liberties with the message and embellished or otherwise altered what Jesus actually said then it is simple to deduce that the message as recorded by them is actually worthless and cannot be trusted in the slightest. Some of what is written may be accurate, but we have no way of telling - so the messenger [Jesus] is obviously more important than the untrustworthy message.

If [like I say] the bible is the literal, inerrant word of God and as such can be correctly understood through the ministry of the Spirit of God, then the words of Jesus as recorded above surely have to lead one to the conclusion that there is NOTHING in the ENTIRE UNIVERSE more important than this Divine Messenger? His message would then become the 2nd most important thing in the entire universe!



Much [I'm sure] has been said on ATS over the years about the accuracy of the bible, and my intention here is not to start a "discussion" on that aspect of my post. What I'm looking for initially is a simple assessment of my logical conclusion as outlined above.

It is important that everyone here realizes that Maban's message is in ABSOLUTE opposition to the message of Jesus. Maban is telling us that millenia ago some enlighted ones left among other things three secrets that can ultimately help humanity become all happy-clappy and at peace with each other and the cosmos. If we all do what is right [although there are no absolutes] then gradually over time it'll all work out just peachy!

Jesus tells us that we're all dung that deserves to spend eternity separated from our Creator. The only way to fix this is to allow Him to do it for us on an individual, personal basis. This earth is heading towards a fiery doom, but thankfully the escape route is open to all, costs us nothing, and is absolutely guaranteed to work.

Maban: I don't know if you are who and what you say you are. It is quite possible. One thing is certain - your New Age, eastern mysticism, become one with the cosmos through our own effort message is simply one more example of people believing anything but the truth.

Fact is - the truth hurts. We CAN'T do "it". We have already failed.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
Maban I apologize if you’ve already answered this question.

What do you think of Rosicrucian?

Which one?

Is this really a secret society that freemasonry stems from?

The true origins of many "secret societies" are shrouded in mystery, intrigue, and ledgend. I know even we've gotten things wrong. I honestly know little about their origins since they really are not a "big player" as so to speak when it comes to our operations.

Do you think the current societies are legit and play a role in social engineering?

Some yes, some no. Some are legitimate, others more fictitious and men in costumes more than anything. Some try to control people through physical means, others through more noninvasive methods like employment, taxes, etc... It truly spans the spectrum with every type of cook, nut, and power hungry warmonger you get that comes with some self righteous deceleration of purpose.

What do you think of their manifestos and origins?

Part truth, part fiction, and allot of "fill in the blanks" unfortunately. I've recently foudn similar... "discrepancies" within my organization, with the added eternal delight of our leaders of courses.

Do you believe it may be a hoax?

What a hoax?

- Maban

[edit on 28-1-2009 by Maban]

reply to post by illimey

Originally posted by illimey
Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me".

Maban says that [paraphrase] some people [like me] make the "mistake" of placing more importance on the messenger than the message.

In most, if not all, other cases I would agree. But when someone says "I am the way the truth and the life" it surely becomes impossible to correctly place more importance on the message than the messenger?

Logic:

If [like some say] the human writers of the bible [in this specific case John] took liberties with the message and embellished or otherwise altered what Jesus actually said then it is simple to deduce that the message as recorded by them is actually worthless and cannot be trusted in the slightest. Some of what is written may be accurate, but we have no way of telling - so the messenger [Jesus] is obviously more important than the untrustworthy message.

If [like I say] the bible is the literal, inerrant word of God and as such can be correctly understood through the ministry of the Spirit of God, then the words of Jesus as recorded above surely have to lead one to the conclusion that there is NOTHING in the ENTIRE UNIVERSE more important than this Divine Messenger? His message would then become the 2nd most important thing in the entire universe!

Well; given nor you or I have "seen" the entire universe, I cannot say. But your logic is undeniable, yet there is little "logical" about the bible, but that is another topic I will not get into. You are most certainly entitled to your opinion, and I my own. I hope we can happily agree, to disagree.

Much [I'm sure] has been said on ATS over the years about the accuracy of the bible, and my intention here is not to start a "discussion" on that aspect of my post. What I'm looking for initially is a simple assessment of my logical conclusion as outlined above.

It is important that everyone here realizes that Maban's message is in ABSOLUTE opposition to the message of Jesus.

Well, I'm not advocating for killing, raping, pillaging, stealing, etc... so "ABSOLUTE," is a bit of a strong word now. Contradiction; yes.

Maban is telling us that millenia ago some enlighted ones left among other things three secrets that can ultimately help humanity become all happy-clappy and at peace with each other and the cosmos. If we all do what is right [although there are no absolutes] then gradually over time it'll all work out just peachy!

You are entitled to your beliefs, as I am mine. I do not force them on anyone, I am merely giving my perspective and beliefs. Things I state as fact, I do so without equivocation. Things which I hold as personal beliefs, I state so there is little misunderstanding.

Jesus tells us that we're all dung that deserves to spend eternity separated from our Creator. The only way to fix this is to allow Him to do it for us on an individual, personal basis. This earth is heading towards a fiery doom, but thankfully the escape route is open to all, costs us nothing, and is absolutely guaranteed to work.

Well, your eternal optimism aside; I am not one to advocate or tolerate self destructive thinking. Just as well, your and my concept of "guaranteed" are quite different I am afraid. But no less, I understand your argument, and duly well respect it in full.

Maban: I don't know if you are who and what you say you are. It is quite possible. One thing is certain - your New Age, eastern mysticism, become one with the cosmos through our own effort message is simply one more example of people believing anything but the truth.

Mysticism; never heard it called that, that is a first. Nevertheless, truth my friend, is what we make of answers. It is not absolute. Answers are found through question and discovery, and "truth," is but a fleeting image of reality. Perpetually changed and molded by our actions, our decisions; here and now. If you wish to believe otherwise, do not allow me to hinder you. This is my outlook, and the outlook of the Shards.

Fact is - the truth hurts. We CAN'T do "it". We have already failed.

Well while you ascend into heaven, or let the truck roll over you, I will still be fighting for us whom are condemned to "eternal damnation;" it may be foolish, it may be unwise, and it may just make my soul burn in hell forever. But I would rather live in hell knowing I gave a damn and fought for humankind, than surrender and save myself.

I speak for my fellow kin when saying; in other words:

"I would rather die on my feet, than live on my knees."

- Maban

[edit on 28-1-2009 by Maban]

reply to post by illimey


This is a good question, and as a Christian I think you make a good point. Like you I don't want to distract the thread with Theological debate, but there are other statements attributed to Jesus that *do* appear to support what Maban has said as well:

Source

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works"

"Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness"

"Walk while you have the light"

"Love one another as I have loved you"

"Do good to them which hate you"

"Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost"

"Take no thought for your life"

I don't speak for Maban or Jesus, and I won't discuss Christianity in Maban's thread again, but as an open-minded person I can see where some of the themes of His teachings correspond to the messages of Maban and to others who say the same type of things.

For me it means:

- Destroy selfishness, ego

- Love and serve your neighbor

- Spread the light and truth as far as you can

- Don't fear death

or something.


Good post Illimey!

Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me".

this is the issue I am stuck on also. I believe, that what mayben is saying though, can still fit in with my belief in the holy trinity. I really dont believe"the truths" he speaks of, is any kind of proof otherwise... heres a question mayben

Do you have any christian shards? or illuminon that are christian, and believe that Jesus is our savior, our light. That Jesus died on the cross, as a sacrifice to wash us of our sins in Gods eyes? I dont see how that belief changes your message whatsoever. Mayben you wouldnt mind enlightening me on your perspective of this. I believe you said (paraphrasing) God said not to worship any other god before me. therefore we are putting too much emphasis on the "messanger" Ive just always been taught that Jesus is God...I see your point its just hard to get passed-->Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me".

Originally posted by emsed1
- Don't fear death

I don't think we should fear life either, though most people do.

A little question, as a christian and a freemason, have you ever considered that Jesus, as a craftsman, or at the very least, as the son (step/adoptive-son - delete as appropriate) of one, may have been initiated into the Craft? And, that 2000 years, give or take, ago he may have seen that the tools used in that craft revealed more about 'god' than the Talmud or the Torah ever could?

Not a loaded question, simply a curiousity of mine, and I wondered if it had ever crossed your mind.

reply to post by AKARonco

Originally posted by AKARonco
Do you have any christian shards? or illuminon that are christian, and believe that Jesus is our savior, our light. That Jesus died on the cross, as a sacrifice to wash us of our sins in Gods eyes?

Shards are not divided nor defined by "belief," but by geographical location and duties. Illuminons are free to believe in what they wish, however I have yet to meet one who is "Christian." Many of us hold beliefs from many different belief systems, so its not as straight forward or clearly defined as the rest of the world sees it.

I don't see how that belief changes your message whatsoever. Maban you wouldn't mind enlightening me on your perspective of this.

A belief in Christianity would cause certain inconsistencies, especially when the Three Truths are known.

I believe you said (paraphrasing) God said not to worship any other god before me. therefore we are putting too much emphasis on the "messanger" Ive just always been taught that Jesus is God...I see your point its just hard to get passed-->Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me".

I understand your conflict, which is a part of why Illuminons believe what they do, because of inconsistencies. Bear in mind we are drawing information and ancient accounts from "alternative accurate sources" which changes our worldview and beliefs to what they are now.

- Maban

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


It has. More so recently since I (finally) finished reading 'The Hiram Key'.

It's an interesting concept to say the least.

Hi Maban. Could you tell us assuming that you know which language these 3 truths which you speak of were originally promulgated in.

reply to post by emsed1


You may find this article interesting, it continues along a similar vein, though quite plainly spoken, which is a novelty in itself I find;

www.theosophy-nw.org...

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Yes, very interesting indeed!

I have also recently read that ancient man possessed exactly the same intellectual ability that we have today, just fewer tools. This leads me to believe they may have actually known what they were talking about and not just telling fantastic stories!

reply to post by spannera

Originally posted by spannera
Hi Maban. Could you tell us assuming that you know which language these 3 truths which you speak of were originally promulgated in.

Unfortunately, this language is not well know to man, for it predates the language of Sanskrit. It is the language of the Enlightened Ones. For security reasons I cannot name the actual language, or for that matter of fact the true name of the Enlightened Ones. For now, we can simply call it the Language of The Enlightened Ones.

- Maban

[edit on 28-1-2009 by Maban]

reply to post by emsed1


I agree with your commitment not to hijack this thread with a theological [Christian] debate, and I certainly don't want to detract from Maban's unusual willingness - and extraordinary ability - to answer wide ranging and interesting questions. So after replying to your comments, I will do my sincere best to restrain myself from expressing any more thoughts that are not directly related to the ongoing thread. Of course, I WILL be responding to Maban's reply to my initial post, and I will answer any and all issues he has raised as I find appropriate.

Your thoughts are, I'm afraid, difficult for me to find common ground with. Basically we seem to have the increasingly prevalent issue of 'picking and choosing' from the words of Jesus to deal with here. I absolutely agree that Jesus talked a lot about things in a way that appears to agree with a lot of what Maban says, however we HAVE to accept Christ's WHOLE message, and statements such as the one I initially raised - together with this incredible opening to what should rightly be known as the Lord's Prayer:

Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. (John 17:1-5)

surely leave a Christian no option but to view the less "spine-tinglingly divine" parts of His message as FOLLOWING ON from the central truth of who Jesus is and what He has done.

Yes, we follow the wonderful teachings of Jesus about how to live and behave one a day to day basis, but if we FIRST and FOREMOST haven't fully accepted and been transformed by the eternal life bestowing, death defeating, miracle working, immortal, fully God and fully man Lord Jesus Christ God's only Son, then the rest of what He said may as well be "don't slurp your soup on Tuesdays" for all the good it will do us.

Maban's message is intriguing, and he has many wonderful thoughts and insights that I am grateful to him for sharing. However, as a Christian who believes in the absolute Truth, I cannot ultimately say anything other than this:

I hope and pray that everyone who reads this will sooner or later come to the same realization that I have. Namely - Jesus IS indeed the ONLY way to eternal happiness. And the alternative is NOT the never-ending party for the "fun folks" that some people like to say they believe it is...

The alternative is eternal separation from God - who is the source of ALL life, ALL peace, ALL joy, ALL that is good and noble and holy... and apart from God, there is NO love and NOTHING WORTH LOVING.

He created us with free will. The choice is ours.

reply to post by illimey


Both the message and messenger are equally important. Remember, Jesus said for us to uphold His Commandments and a house built on stone is a great shelter.

BTW, about not being able to do it; that's a defeatist attitude. Jesus told us to fight corruption and evil wherever it may be for our fellow man and for God. Maybe we're losing because no one else cares; think about that? To look away from evil like North Korea, and here with the Remnants gives them power to do as they please. Then who becomes the enabler?

[edit on 29-1-2009 by Darky6K]

Hello Maban - thank you again for the time in answering questions -

1.
There was a thread a few months back titled "Window of Opportunity" that was opened for a few days for questions and then withdrawn - the author claimed to be off the 'blood' and was available for a short time - here is the link - www.abovetopsecret.com...
What is your opinion of these entries by Hidden Hand? As much as there's more bull than substance everywhere, it seemed this post might have had some credibility.

2.
You wrote earlier our options were to either awaken and claim our destiny, realize a greater existance (paraphrasing here) or our origins made clear to all. This is something often said in many circles (new age, religions, etc.), but without any hints as to what our 'destiny' or 'greater existance' IS... Could you please elaborate - as this is too general (for me). I mean, we've been lied to since before birth and yet we are somehow responsible... seems like a double edged sword for humanity.

3.
Where are we in space and time? I don't mean earth, third planet from the sun, I mean in terms of evolving, evolution, infinite scenarios, where are "we", humanity in the big picture? Fallen angels? Alien DNA experiment? Captured souls? All/none of the above?

4.
What are our origins? And why are we kept SO IGNORANT of all these wondrous things?

5.
What three questions would you ask if you were sitting here in my place to help us understand? grow? survive? rejoice?

Thank you again - K.


[edit on 29-1-2009 by kshaund]

reply to post by Darky6K


Ah - I need to clarify. When I say "we" have failed or "we" can't do it, I'm referring to unregenerate humanity. Those who have the Spirit of God indwelling and are humbly seeking to follow God's will can indeed do wonderful and valuable things! But still - it's not you and me that provides the power and light and truth to the world, it's God through us.

Humans working under their own steam are either lost in a bewildering maze of conflicting, contradictory, "all paths lead nowhere" humanist philosophies, or at worst are under the direct influence of fallen angels who are the source of ALL occult/demonic/ufo etc... activity. Spiritual warfare is simple [of course, simple doesn't mean easy!]



And by posting this I guess I'm doing what I said I wouldn't do! However as this is a clarification of something I've already said... can I be forgiven?

I will be replying to Maban's comments about my initial post when I have time to devote to addressing them.