Shards of the Illuminati

reply to post by kshaund

Originally posted by kshaund
1.
There was a thread a few months back titled "Window of Opportunity" that was opened for a few days for questions and then withdrawn - the author claimed to be off the 'blood' and was available for a short time - here is the link - www.abovetopsecret.com...
What is your opinion of these entries by Hidden Hand? As much as there's more bull than substance everywhere, it seemed this post might have had some credibility.

I have been asked this several times now, which has prompted me to look deeper into this matter. The individual possessed some "valuable" knowledge, or rather made allusions to such knowledge, but overall I believe it was some vein attempt at presenting themselves as the "good guys" to some extent, or upholding a "me too," mentality.

Not to sound like a megalomaniac or egotistical, but I think given the terminology he used, and the way in which he used it; I believe he merely "copied" my idea for being here, and spun it into something totally different and/or dark; but for what specific purpose I cannot say.

2.
You wrote earlier our options were to either awaken and claim our destiny, realize a greater existance (paraphrasing here) or our origins made clear to all. This is something often said in many circles (new age, religions, etc.), but without any hints as to what our 'destiny' or 'greater existance' IS... Could you please elaborate - as this is too general (for me). I mean, we've been lied to since before birth and yet we are somehow responsible... seems like a double edged sword for humanity.

Humanity can play a great future tole in shaping the universe, and helping countless individuals, and elevating both the quality and meaning of life itself' but if only humanity so chooses. You ask what humanity's future holds, I ask you; what is the limit to humanity's imagination?

3.
Where are we in space and time? I don't mean earth, third planet from the sun, I mean in terms of evolving, evolution, infinite scenarios, where are "we", humanity in the big picture? Fallen angels? Alien DNA experiment? Captured souls? All/none of the above?

We are a species on the verge of great discoveries, or great cataclysm. Our past and our future may remain hidden from us, but that does not mean we can discover it together. To say that mere evolution is responsible for humanity's existence, would be an irresponsible answer. But to also say that some all seeing force is responsible for our existence, would too be a mistake. We must find balance, we must find answers and not truths. We must search within and among ourselves for the will to find these answers. And we must stop looking within the limits of our understanding and beliefs to find the answers, if we truly wish to seek them.

So simply to say, all answers do not lie in your back yard, and all does not become clear before you embark on your quest. Humanity is about to embark on a great journey, with great achievements, and bitter disappointments. But in this journey we will find "whom" we are, and most importantly "what" we are. There exist no absolute truths, just absolute questions, to unanswerable inquiry.

4.
What are our origins? And why are we kept SO IGNORANT of all these wondrous things?

Sometimes for power, sometimes for greed; but most times it is we whom keep ourselves in ignorance, by refusing to ask questions; even unanswerable ones.

5.
What three questions would you ask if you were sitting here in my place to help us understand? grow? survive? rejoice?

There are three, but I believe I have already thoroughly answered them; but they are the most important at least in the initial context of the thread.

1) Why are you doing what you are doing?
2) How do you do what you do?
3) When woudl you stop doing what you do?

- Maban

reply to post by illimey


I would like to know what you mean by '"all paths lead nowhere" humanist philosophies,' if you do not mind?

- Maban

OK I'll bite... :-)

I think I know the answer to some of these but they are interesting.


1) Why are you doing what you are doing?



2) How do you do what you do?



3) When would you stop doing what you do?

reply to post by emsed1

Originally posted by emsed1
OK I'll bite... :-)

I think I know the answer to some of these but they are interesting.


1) Why are you doing what you are doing?

That in even the abysmal dark, there is light. That regardless of what many have been lead to believe, there are good people in the word. And equally powerful good people whom fight those which prey and manipulate the innocent and weak.

2) How do you do what you do?

Infiltration, intelligence collection, and if need be force. But we answer with force only when need be. We answer ignorance with knowledge and understanding; and answer darkness with illumination and love.

3) When would you stop doing what you do?

When humanity has so progressed to a point when we are rendered obsolete, and a cantankerous dinosaur of less enlightened times. When our ways, are the ways of humanity. Or, humanity's ways are greater than ours.

- Maban

i would like to ask a abstract question. do you have any opinion or understanding (illumination) about the holy grail story.

reply to post by spannera

Originally posted by spannera
i would like to ask a abstract question. do you have any opinion or understanding (illumination) about the holy grail story.

It could very well be possible to exist, although I personally have no knowledge of it beyond legends.

- Maban

reply to post by Maban

Well; given nor you or I have "seen" the entire universe, I cannot say. But your logic is undeniable,

Thanks for the compliment!

yet there is little "logical" about the bible, but that is another topic I will not get into. You are most certainly entitled to your opinion, and I my own. I hope we can happily agree, to disagree.

This is your thread, and I respect your decision to not address the logic [or lack of it] of the bible. I will simply add that when viewed in it's context as the progressive revelation of God's dealings with the human race over millennia during which everything apart from God is constantly changing I truly, honestly believe that biblical logic is also undeniable! The ultimate message of the bible (that God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life), however, is indeed something that human logic fails to grasp....

Well, I'm not advocating for killing, raping, pillaging, stealing, etc... so "ABSOLUTE," is a bit of a strong word now. Contradiction; yes.

Is your message "Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life - and no one can reach God but by Him"? If not, your message IS in absolute opposition to Jesus' message. Any message that claims another way is in complete and unconditional contradiction to the message of Jesus.

You are entitled to your beliefs, as I am mine. I do not force them on anyone, I am merely giving my perspective and beliefs. Things I state as fact, I do so without equivocation. Things which I hold as personal beliefs, I state so there is little misunderstanding.

As (I hope) we all know, forcing beliefs on someone is impossible. Forcing outward adherence to a set of beliefs, however, is attempted all to often - and I sadly admit that the history of "Christianity" is littered with dreadful examples of such, utterly unChrist-like, behavior. As Ghandi once said (paraphrase) "I like your Christ, but I don't like your Christians". My desire is to behave in a manner that brings glory and honor to God, not in a way that tramples His very nature in the dirt of human arrogance and pride.

Well, your eternal optimism aside; I am not one to advocate or tolerate self destructive thinking. Just as well, your and my concept of "guaranteed" are quite different I am afraid. But no less, I understand your argument, and duly well respect it in full.

I am indeed an "eternal" optimist! That, of course, doesn't mean that I don't have my "moments", but I absolutely believe that my future is secure. God himself provides that guarantee, and I'm not going to argue with Him now am I? I would be interested to read your expanded comments on how your concept of guaranteed differs from mine - I'm not sure I understand your meaning. Your graciousness and respect in your approach to this thread, and toward all of us joining in, continues to make this a pleasant and rewarding place to be. You have my genuine appreciation.

(continued below)

(continued from above)

Mysticism; never heard it called that, that is a first. Nevertheless, truth my friend, is what we make of answers. It is not absolute. Answers are found through question and discovery, and "truth," is but a fleeting image of reality. Perpetually changed and molded by our actions, our decisions; here and now. If you wish to believe otherwise, do not allow me to hinder you. This is my outlook, and the outlook of the Shards.

Truth is absolute. Question are asked and discoveries are assimilated and assessed by our imperfect intellect. Limited understanding has consistently resulted in error assuming the mantle of truth. One such classic example is the now staggering fact that people once genuinely believed that the earth was flat. A quick search of the bible should dissuade us from holding to that error - but sadly then (as now) even Christians make the mistake of placing their trust in scientists rather than in the One who CREATED the scientists!



So it is not the truth itself - rather our dim and incomplete UNDERSTANDING of the truth - that is perpetually changing. We no longer (I hope) believe that the planet on which we live is flat, but we DO apparently choose to believe that in the beginning was nothing which then exploded - and x-billion years later via rock soup and monkeys - here we all are.

Baffling to say the least.

Well while you ascend into heaven, or let the truck roll over you, I will still be fighting for us whom are condemned to "eternal damnation;" it may be foolish, it may be unwise, and it may just make my soul burn in hell forever. But I would rather live in hell knowing I gave a damn and fought for humankind, than surrender and save myself.

I speak for my fellow kin when saying; in other words:

"I would rather die on my feet, than live on my knees."

The only reason I am posting here is that I believe God calls all Christians to reach out to others so that they too may realize that the imperfect cannot make itself perfect. I am indeed fighting for those reading this who are trying to find the way home.... Becoming a Christian is, as you say (assuming I understand your point), supremely selfish. It requires accepting that a lifetime of effort, sweat, blood and even self sacrifice means squat when the standard is PERFECTION IN EVERY WAY! We CANNOT attain that.

However AFTER we've said "God, I suck. I'm sorry I can never meet your standards. Please do everything for me" we THEN get to fight the good fight and be a vessel through which the one true Light can shine.

As I Christian, I should take everything to God in prayer (i.e. "live on my knees"). The thing is, though, that even when one IS constantly on ones spiritual knees, one can still be wading into battle - swinging that sword of Truth round and round!

As Paul said:

"For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain".

reply to post by illimey

Originally posted by illimey
Is your message "Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life - and no one can reach God but by Him"? If not, your message IS in absolute opposition to Jesus' message. Any message that claims another way is in complete and unconditional contradiction to the message of Jesus.

Be careful with absolutes, you find enemies far more quickly that way. We learned that lesson the hard way with Wisehaupt, it saddens me to see others learn the very same lesson the hard way.

I am indeed an "eternal" optimist! That, of course, doesn't mean that I don't have my "moments", but I absolutely

believe that my future is secure. God himself provides that guarantee, and I'm not going to argue with Him now am I? I would be interested to read your expanded comments on how your concept of guaranteed differs from mine - I'm not sure I understand your meaning. Your graciousness and respect in your approach to this thread, and toward all of us joining in, continues to make this a pleasant and rewarding place to be. You have my genuine appreciation.

I will forewarn you however, my reserve, my composure; is not without its limits.

Your "guarantee" is faith based, mine is a physical tangible action, plan, or option on my part; created by, and left open to me and my kin. That is my definition of "guarantee." Had you military training, you would agree that the pinnacle of any operations, is both the objective, and most importantly; the escape plan. "Hoping," or placing "faith" in an escape plan, and having multiple "tangible" escape plans, are two very different things. Last I checked, faith does not make a good substitute for body armor and agility. Have you tested the difference?

Truth is absolute. Question are asked and discoveries are assimilated and assessed by our imperfect intellect. Limited understanding has consistently resulted in error assuming the mantle of truth. One such classic example is the now staggering fact that people once genuinely believed that the earth was flat. A quick search of the bible should dissuade us from holding to that error - but sadly then (as now) even Christians make the mistake of placing their trust in scientists rather than in the One who CREATED the scientists!

It would appear we do not see eye to eye on the definition of truth, so I will leave it at that. Because I do not wish to pursue a fool's errand.

Be careful, those scientists have made human life far more livable, and far better. The modern wonders around you would not exist without them. Your scripture could not be so easily spread around the world for all to see and know, without them. Do not be so foolish as to discredit and disown them, for they are a great asset to humanity, and humanity's future.

It is true that they have made weapons, it is true that they have revolutionized the ways in which to kill a many great peoples with little effort. But bare in mind, scientists do not kill people, it is the users of such technologies that do. You see any technology is indeed inherently neutral. It is up to the will of its wielder to use any technology for good, or evil. Take a hammer for example. It can be used to help build a house for the homeless, or bludgeon a man over the head. Even the simplest of technologies can be used for good or evil. So judge not the deeds of scientists by their creation's use, but by their creation's potential for good.

You mention the scientific interpretation of the world being flat, this may have been so. But may I also add that it was not until the advent of the Apollo missions and the first men on the mood, that the Catholic Church finally admitted (in the 1960's) that Earth was indeed not the center of the universe nor the solar system. Even after irrefutable satellite imagery, they refused to admit them wrong. Even faith can be fallible, because after all it is man whom has both interpreted and perpetually revised/rewritten/translated the bible from its original text.

It is not that I value scientific endeavors over spiritual ones, on the contrary. However, one requires balance. Science without spirituality is pure logic, and logic doesn't care. However, pure spirituality without logic, is insanity; a world where truth and fiction become one.

So simply to say,

"Science can tell you how, but only spirituality can tell you why."

So it is not the truth itself - rather our dim and incomplete UNDERSTANDING of the truth - that is perpetually changing. We no longer (I hope) believe that the planet on which we live is flat, but we DO apparently choose to believe that in the beginning was nothing which then exploded - and x-billion (Maban Edit: 14.3B) years later via rock soup and monkeys - here we all are.

A truly enlightened and educated individual, would recognize that the answer is not so simple as that. Given nor you or I were around at such time, I will say that neither of us can conclusively state this to be "absolute truth." Both your sacred texts, and my ancient teachings seem contradictory in nature, but for the sake of "love and light," we shall look past this and both concede we cannot prove one to the other, and only time will tell.

Baffling to say the least.

Well, I woudl be more than happy to enlighten you.

The only reason I am posting here is that I believe God calls all Christians to reach out to others so that they too may realize that the imperfect cannot make itself perfect.

That woudl depend on the "definition" of perfection, now wouldn't it?
Our definition of perfection is simple:
Love + Happiness = Grace or Perfection
Not so unattainable, except for the foolish or masochistic.

I am indeed fighting for those reading this who are trying to find the way home.... Becoming a Christian is, as you say (assuming I understand your point), supremely selfish. It requires accepting that a lifetime of effort, sweat, blood and even self sacrifice means squat when the standard is PERFECTION IN EVERY WAY! We CANNOT attain that.

According to your standard (or that of your supreme being), that is.

Continued >>>

[edit on 30-1-2009 by Maban]

However AFTER we've said "God, I suck. I'm sorry I can never meet your standards. Please do everything for me" we THEN get to fight the good fight and be a vessel through which the one true Light can shine.

Looking to others, even significantly more powerful individuals (i.e. god) to solve all of one's problems, has always proved problematic for us; however this may not be such a case for individuals such as yourself.

As I Christian, I should take everything to God in prayer (i.e. "live on my knees"). The thing is, though, that even when one IS constantly on ones spiritual knees, one can still be wading into battle - swinging that sword of Truth round and round!

I pledge my heart and soul to humanity, and humanity's future. For humanity requires guardians whom embrace, respect, uphold, and protect it in its various sizes, shapes, and forms. I honor and respect your beliefs, but I cannot allow one to supersede another, especially within the Shards. We do not, nor cannot "take sides," in petty religious squabbling; for we see humanity en whole, in its various states.

I appreciate you sharing your views, but I feel beyond vestigial meanings for one another, this discourse will prove unproductive besides a group entertainment value; for I have little else to say. And fear any dissolution of my reserve or composure regarding such said information.

From your point of view everything seems "right" and clear. But not from mine. Humanity is far more complicated en whole, and I cannot afford to simply see one part of it, for fear of developing blinders which could prove fatal to humanity's existence. I am more than happy to have you here and exchanging your ideas/beliefs. But it is when one becomes an obstacle to human progress that they transgress and transcend the border between friend and foe. I simply wish to remind you that god gave us free will, free will to follow his word, or to abandon it; as I am sure you see it.

That said, I ask you to ensure that any "fatalistic" idealism is indeed kept in check, as you so eloquently put it; so as to not bring harm to you or your compatriots. I am sure there are plenty other threads within ATS to express such concerns and/or beliefs. I mean no harm nor dissidence, only the development of a clear and explicit understanding of our stances. No more, no less.

- Maban

OK Maban, a question for you:

Do the Illuminons have a plan in place to cope with the chaos that will ensue following a "rapture" event as some Christians believe will one day occur? The instantaneous disappearance of millions of people worldwide will create havoc on an unprecedented scale.

Is this possibility something that your Council considers serious enough to even have a plan for?

Thanks again for your patience with crazy ol' fundamentalist illimey!

reply to post by Maban

I ask you to ensure that any "fatalistic" idealism is indeed kept in check, as you so eloquently put it; so as to not bring harm to you or your compatriots.

I'm sorry I don't follow this at all. What exactly did I eloquently put? And who will bring harm to me or my compatriots if I don't keep it in check?

Maybe I'm too tired to be posting anymore (I'm staying up through the night in order to get my sleep schedule "flipped" before I start night shifts at 2300 Friday)

Rotating shifts are a charming invention!

Anyway - a simple question...

Can you provide this thread with a scanned image of any document or item in your possession that would help us make a stronger connection with you and your mission? Obviously I'm not asking for anything that would identify you personally, just something that would give us something visible (related to your claims in this thread) to consider.

A picture tells a thousand words, as they say. I don't necessarily agree with them, but it may help in this case!


[edit on 1/30/2009 by illimey]

reply to post by illimey

Originally posted by illimey
Do the Illuminons have a plan in place to cope with the chaos that will ensue following a "rapture" event as some Christians believe will one day occur? The instantaneous disappearance of millions of people worldwide will create havoc on an unprecedented scale.

Is this possibility something that your Council considers serious enough to even have a plan for?

Sure it is; but not due to any sort of "foretold" event. If there were a nuclear war, a massive outbreak of disease, there would certainly me mass panic, questions, etc... So we woudl then simply modify an inactive plan in a better suited active one. As the saying goes, "no plan survives first contact with the enemy." That said, we make all our plans readily adaptable to changing circumstances.

- Maban

reply to post by illimey

Originally posted by illimey
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread353057]
Can you provide this thread with a scanned image of any document or item in your possession that would help us make a stronger connection with you and your mission? Obviously I'm not asking for anything that would identify you personally, just something that would give us something visible (related to your claims in this thread) to consider.

A picture tells a thousand words, as they say. I don't necessarily agree with them, but it may help in this case!

I really honestly don't know what you want, moreover what I could provide?
Ideas would be useful.

- Maban

hi maban i get the impression that you are more of a tech sort of guy so I was wondering what sort of equipment and weapons you have used and why you prefer said items. Thanks.

reply to post by Maban


Hi there - if you would please, clarification - your response to my asking what three questions you would ask if you were in our place so we could learn as much as possible was repeating your first postings of why you are here and for how long etc, but those answers don't help unless I'm completely missing the message. So if I could re-ask it, then what would your 'next' three questions be that you would ask if you were here typing this so you could learn as much as possible from you?

I was hoping for something more specific overall, the replies seem to be very general, therefore vague - and even though I realize the message is about choice, its been said before. What, as humans, are we? Who are we? Do we all have souls? Do animals have souls? People who die today, are they deprived of these 'great discoveries' possibly awaiting humanity? If we influence the universe, doesn't the universe also influence the earth? Or are we some sort of a 'bet' between species/races to see how/what we do under the most heinous and desperate of circumstances as we watch and experience all these very real schematas going off to be rid of us?

Thank you - K.

PS - Also though you have suggested there are no 'good' books out there, it doesn't help (me) to know why - which part of all this is truth and which isn't? We're here trying to put pieces together, and I'm open to changing pieces according to information, which is about all I can do - so what are we supposed to be looking for or where do we get answers then if not what's presently available to us? Is it all wrong? Half wrong? If so which half? Thanks again, K.

reply to post by kshaund


I found that Maban was much more specific in U2Us and willing to answer just about everything I asked in a specific fashion. I don't know if that would help but maybe worth a try?

Originally posted by kshaund
PS - Also though you have suggested there are no 'good' books out there, it doesn't help (me) to know why - which part of all this is truth and which isn't? We're here trying to put pieces together, and I'm open to changing pieces according to information, which is about all I can do - so what are we supposed to be looking for or where do we get answers then if not what's presently available to us? Is it all wrong? Half wrong? If so which half? Thanks again, K.

One book that I really enjoy (and I am not endorsing it as truth, but it is fascinating and has some similar messages) is the Urantia Book.

Much of the first half is almost unreadable due to the jargon and incredibly detailed descriptions of the universe, but there are parts that are simply fascinating regarding science, technology and history.

I found it fascinating that despite being written between 1935 and 1955 it manages to precisely describe many of the scientific principles we have only recent become aware of, like string theory, multiple universes etc.

The history of mankind is fascinating as well.

The second half of the book is a detailed history of the life of Jesus according to some of his followers like Nathaniel that aren't covered in the bible.

It also explains why religion has become corrupted and serves only to promote itself, rather than the messages that have been given to us over the ages by people like Guatama Buddha and Jesus.

Anyway it's a fascinating book and even if read with a skeptical eye it tells an amazing story and overall coincides with the message of Maban and other folks throughout history that are telling us to wake up and realize the most important thing we can do as humans is to love each other.

An historian would find the papers about Jesus fascinating, but I would caution fundamentalists that the picture painted about modern Christianity is unflattering. It suggests that the modern derivation of Christianity is a cult begun by Paul and further corrupted by Rome in order exert power over the population through the Church.

For me, though, some of the truth is in there.

Maban -

1 - I know there is much you cannot reveal from the 'Enlightened Ones' but do you know if they have knowledge of the origin of existence? Is there a source or 'The Uncreated' as it were?


2 - What caused the original schism between Wisehaupt and Knigge, and can you elaborate on the history of Knigge's group after the schism?


3 - Does the 'Swedenborgian Rite' have anything to do with any of this or is it a Red Herring?


Thanks!