Blackwater : Right-Wing Conservative America, Whether You Like It Or Not...

Originally posted by Sublime620
reply to post by semperfortis

 

Really, Semper?

Now, I have a great respect for you... please do understand that. I must respectfully disagree with you on this.

Putting rules on our warfare is what separates us from the animals. This is why we need to treat POWs fairly, try our best to keep civilian casualties low, and not torture.

We need to set the example. If we don't, are we any different from the people that we are fighting?

To be fair all the way around, there are no rules in war, war is about killing the other man before he kills you. The difference here is of course in how you treat those captured as enemy combatants, spies, or terrorist collaborators in that everything you do to them, will be done to you as well if the situation is reversed, and sometimes even if it's not.

Torture is torture, terror is terror, war is war. Plain and simple.

This song has nothing to do with the thread except it's an awesome song and band, but even it shows how war is being pushed by everyone right now.



[edit on 12-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


But isn't that what we are discussing here? The privatization of our army and our inability to regulate it?

While I agree that the end goal is to kill the enemy, ethics don't just disappear - until you let money control the objectives.

Just a simple google search gets this:

Black Water War Crimes

There is no accountability.

Originally posted by Sublime620
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

But isn't that what we are discussing here? The privatization of our army and our inability to regulate it?

While I agree that the end goal is to kill the enemy, ethics don't just disappear - until you let money control the objectives.

Just a simple google search gets this:

Black Water War Crimes

There is no accountability.

Oh, I understand completely the lack of accountability or control over a corporate military, mercenaries, private contractors, Government Controlled Subsidized Entity, call it what you will, it's still a military, paid by corporate masters in the endeavors of seeking oil and financial gain at the expense of the people who pay the bills and the people who are being ruthlessly murdered to cover-up the crimes as well.

Okay, so if we put this in the perspective of "Saddam Hussein" having been an abusive husband to his wife, the Iraqi nation, this would be the equivalent to the "US/Bush" being the "Police Officer" who came to "Iraq/Wife's" rescue and because Saddam had a great set of golf clubs, mechanics tools, and redneck pickup truck, but ended up being a worse abuser than "Saddam", and then to top it all off "US/Bush" uses a guard dog to make "Iraq/Wife" stay in the house while he steals money through re-building the house.

That's called an analogy.

reply to post by Sublime620


Accountability? You want accountability? Right. HHHmmm...oil wells in Texas, oil wells in Azerbaijan, oil wells in,...well you get the drift. It's all about the oil, always has been always will be.

By the way, Hugo Chavez's "Citgo" oil is no longer within the United States.
Usually when a foreign entity pulls their oil out, either willingly or against their will, it's a sign of war. It happened during WWII, look it up. The world is being divided and carved into neat little pieces ready for the oil-barrons to devour.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


I noticed within the book Blackwate r: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army that Azerbaijan is a large part of the oil-seeking conglomerates. Here's a look at the Azerbaijan State Oil Academy and you'll notice at the bottom of the website with the BP emblem.

[edit on 12-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

What is truly unnerving to me, beyond the things that are taking place abroad, is that we are being ruled over by a gov that is appearing more fascist by the day, and the lines between these people, the corporations, the M.I.C., seem to be disolving at a record pace. These mercs, private contractors, whatever you want to call them, appear to be heavily tied to this giant entity, and now they are appearing in mainstream america, so this has little to do with "war" anymore. Based on the direction I've seen things going for the past several years, I'm not going to swallow the kool-aid and buy into the "there's nothing to see here, move on" type of mentality that has allowed those in power to paint this nation into a corner...This IS something to pay attention to, and be concerned about, particularly with the direction things have been going.

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
What is truly unnerving to me, beyond the things that are taking place abroad, is that we are being ruled over by a gov that is appearing more fascist by the day, and the lines between these people, the corporations, the M.I.C., seem to be disolving at a record pace. These mercs, private contractors, whatever you want to call them, appear to be heavily tied to this giant entity, and now they are appearing in mainstream america, so this has little to do with "war" anymore. Based on the direction I've seen things going for the past several years, I'm not going to swallow the kool-aid and buy into the "there's nothing to see here, move on" type of mentality that has allowed those in power to paint this nation into a corner...This IS something to pay attention to, and be concerned about, particularly with the direction things have been going.

Well DD, I agree with you and disagree with you in some senses with what you have to say. I agree 100% that Blackwater, DynCorp, Triple Canopy and the myriad of other "private contractors" are tied to the oil pipelines around the world and the corporate master who pull their strings through a paycheck.

I disagree with you in the fact that this has everything to do with war, and this War in Iraq 100% only because though that it is not just about Iraq and the poor little Iraqi's anymore, it has to do with war on all fronts in all countries. For anyone who knows anything about war is that it's a revolving door for the corrupt politicians of all countries concerned to line their pockets through war-mongering and war-profiteering and also to "re-vamp" the economy of all countries concerned.

It's also about war in the fact that it is about a war for your wallet, along with everyone else's across the planet, to pay for the war through higher taxes, higher gas prices, higher death tolls along with lower freedoms, lower population, and lower thought-processes as the mind is numbed while the soul is twisted through the heart-wrenching belief that you are the cause of the problem.

I'm not swallowing it either.

I found this interesting link to share with everyone about Blackwater. It mentions World of Warcraft and I'm wondering if that's a copyright infringement on whoever's part within the website, lol.

Truth Out

The Blackwate r book references ID Systems as being connected to Blackwater. The question begs to be asked if Blackwater is somehow linked to the "Real ID" initiative that the Government is so strongly attempting to shove down American's throats.

So, this means Blackwater is connected indirectly or directly to Homeland Security(read the "Real ID" link).



[edit on 12-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Everything so far in this book sounds a whole lot like the whole enchilada all boils downs down to oil, war-profiteering, and Real ID issuses. I really want to know what other people who have read the book think about this. Do people agree or disagree?

The book names all the names throughout Congress that have been involved with the oil pipelines in the Middle East, along with escorts back and forth in the war zone.

[edit on 13-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Okay, so I'm on the last chapter of the Blackwate r: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army book, and the author mentions the organization called International Peace Operations Association within the book several times. Essentially said, this is the "political arm" of the vast majority of the mercenaries,...oh,...excuse Me "private contractors" where they are trying to centralize and in essence trying to become their own United Nations without all of the necessity of the United Nations.

If you go to the link there you'll see right at the top is DynCorp and that it is "for peace for businesses" not for citizens. In other words, protect the business at all costs, and the citizens can rot. It also talks about how Blackwater is involved heavily in clandestine black-op's all over the world. A "private contractor organization" involved in clandestine work? That smacks of espionage mixed with people who only answer to money not Congressional hearings and operational protocols except the company they work for.


[edit on 15-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Okay, I've read the text of this news story and I have to ask a question. Are these guys morons or what? A year and a half after an incident to investigate a "potential crime" on foreign soil?

Feds Travel to Iraq to Probe 2006 Blackwater Killing of VP's Guard

Oh gee, there's no possibility of "crime scene" cover-up, or "crime scene" witnesses being bullied into falsifying their stories or chased away, or "crime scene" evidence being "misplaced" by someone.

What a crock of crap. This is in essence a bunch of standing around and looking at the hole. "Yup, it's a hole alright."

[edit on 16-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by mybigunit


Looking through this thread I was looking at your Avatar, MBU, and it reminded Me of a book I've been referred to. Here's the link :

The Men Who Stare at Goats

Go have a read on Amazon about the topic of the book and have a great big laugh. I know I did and I don't doubt it in the least that there were Federal Programs on this.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Thanks for inviting me to your thread,great thread-starred and flagged.


It seems now to me anyways it is all coming together(how the shadow government works "outside"the system)If the stories of the "black"military guarding secret installations like Dulce,Area 51,any of the DUMBs,the tunnel system,etc are true it seems to me that these private armies would be the ones to use.As it grants the ability of "plausible deniability"to the general government.Intreging indeed, hope all of the "nwo"conspiracies don't come tue,but lately it looks like they might.

reply to post by jkrog08


Always good to see people stop by and comment as well as flag and star a thread I began. See you in 2012 and the crystal skulls or Americas 14,000mph secret transit system you began.


[edit on 25-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Thanks in part to a U2U from someone I highly respect, this news came to Me to illustrate the implications of "right-wing America" and it's agendas towards breaking the laws it is supposed to enforce.

Cop: Phones Link Americans To Cleric's Kidnap : Italian Anti-Terror Expert Testifies In Trial Over Alleged C.I.A. Rendition

Don't the guys they hire at the very least know to buy a pre-paid phone in order to perpetrate their naughty actions?

I want to say thanks to everyone who assisted in the discussions on this thread. It was interesting to see who had what opinions. Feel free to keep commenting as well as feeling free to U2U Me as well if you have questions and or want to discuss it again, or if you do not understand something I or someone else have said, and I'll get back to you.

I just posted this over on this thread here :

United States Quits Human Rights Council

This really should concern a lot of American citizens in that if we as a nation are stepping away from an important Council like this, it only spells disaster for America.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
If the United States had stepped away from the Human Rights Council, that can only really mean one thing. That being that the U.S. Government is not going to acknowledge human rights in open quarters, since it is already not acknowledging it behind closed doors, with the C.I.A. Black sights, where there is torture going on in the name of our freedoms, but via a surrogate country doing the actual torturing.

For instance I mention waterboarding in this thread :

G.I.Jane vs Rendition...Hollywood vs Reality...Training vs Torture...WATERBOARDING

One of, and I mean one of My sources of some of this information was this book :

Ghost Plane: The True Story of the CIA Torture Program

As well as this book also :

Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army

Which I reference in this thread here :

Blackwater : Right-Wing Conservative America, Whether You Like It Or Not...

How about you stop reviving this thread, posting four times in a row, and spamming your threads?

Thanks.

Check out the new potential avatar based on knowledge of Blackwater. It's been approved by ATS Administration via ADVISOR.




[edit on 22-6-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]