Blackwater : Right-Wing Conservative America, Whether You Like It Or Not...

Originally posted by Unit541



Perhaps you ought to read the entire thread before responding, as you seem to be a little misinformed regarding the context of this thread. First of all, they don't work for US, or we wouldn't have them in Iraq. They work for the US government, which stopped representing the American people some time ago.

Additionally, this "does it affect me" mentality is simply sickening. We, the American people are the most apathetic and complacent people on the face of the earth because of this "does it affect me" paradigm. It DOES affect you. Maybe not right now, maybe not right here. But sometime, somewhere, we're all going to pay for our apathy in these matters. Sometimes, I simply feel like saying "what the #", and simply try to ride out the hard times. But that wouldn't be very "American" of me now would it...

It's a tragedy that so many have forgotten what it means to be an American. Being an American comes with a lot of responsibility. We're responsible first and foremost for thinking for ourselves. This is somewhat of a lost "art" among our people. We're addicted to convenience. As Jon1117 illustrates, it's not convenient to bother ourselves with matters such as Blackwater, and what they represent. Well, Jon, it's time to bother yourself. Ask yourself if the actions of Blackwater are in the best interests of humanity. You are human right?

American is on a fast track down the proverbial crapper, and personally I am glad to see it.

The idiots that compose the majority of the general voting public deserve the giant clusterfruck headed their way.

Originally posted by slackerwire

Originally posted by Unit541



Perhaps you ought to read the entire thread before responding, as you seem to be a little misinformed regarding the context of this thread. First of all, they don't work for US, or we wouldn't have them in Iraq. They work for the US government, which stopped representing the American people some time ago.

Additionally, this "does it affect me" mentality is simply sickening. We, the American people are the most apathetic and complacent people on the face of the earth because of this "does it affect me" paradigm. It DOES affect you. Maybe not right now, maybe not right here. But sometime, somewhere, we're all going to pay for our apathy in these matters. Sometimes, I simply feel like saying "what the #", and simply try to ride out the hard times. But that wouldn't be very "American" of me now would it...

It's a tragedy that so many have forgotten what it means to be an American. Being an American comes with a lot of responsibility. We're responsible first and foremost for thinking for ourselves. This is somewhat of a lost "art" among our people. We're addicted to convenience. As Jon1117 illustrates, it's not convenient to bother ourselves with matters such as Blackwater, and what they represent. Well, Jon, it's time to bother yourself. Ask yourself if the actions of Blackwater are in the best interests of humanity. You are human right?

American is on a fast track down the proverbial crapper, and personally I am glad to see it.

The idiots that compose the majority of the general voting public deserve the giant clusterfruck headed their way.

Hey slackerwire,

Way to be an American citizen and fellow human being there. I'm disappointed in you as an American and a human being in that you think the public deserves anything that is happening. That's like saying a rape victim deserves to be raped because she's a woman. Not kosher at all.

I do believe multiple people within this thread have asked you for facts to back up your views on blackwater, so I'm challenging you to point your views on that anyone in America deserves

The idiots that compose the majority of the general voting public deserve the giant clusterfruck headed their way.

as you so lovingly state there.



[edit on 11-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

I went searching through a foreign news correspondant online at The Guardian UK and found a news story that mentions Blackwater in a small blurb. It's about a US lobbyist among other things within the content.

Controversial US pollster talks to No 10 aides about reviving Labour's fortunes

I found some interesting stories on Democracy Now about Blackwater. The first story is during hurricane Katrina. The second story is about San Diego probing Blackwater's permit.


Overkill: Feared Blackwater Mercenaries Deploy in New Orleans

In addition to the thousands of military troops patrolling the streets of New Orleans, there are also scores of private soldiers that are now spreading out across the city, like those from the Blackwater Security firm. Democracy Now! correspondent Jeremy Scahill reports.

www.democracynow.org...]
San Diego Orders Probe of Blackwater Permit

San Diego Orders Probe of Blackwater Permit

The private military firm Blackwater is facing new scrutiny over its effort to build a training facility in Southern California. San Diego Mayor Jerry Sanders has demanded a probe into whether Blackwater misrepresented itself when it sought permits for the facility’s construction. Blackwater didn’t file under its own name, instead using the names of two subsidiaries. Earlier this year, local residents successfully blocked Blackwater from opening an 824-acre military complex known as Blackwater West in the rural hamlet of Potrero, California. The grassroots group known as the Courage Campaign says it’s collected 2,500 signatures to oppose Blackwater’s latest plans.

[edit on 11-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

I originally began this thread and with people's amazing assistance it has grown so huge it's not even funny. I thought I'd include some other "private military contractors" information and let you draw from it what you will.

Triple Canopy/Contractors Video on YouTube


Wikipedia - Triple Canopy

Triple Canopy Corporate Website
Wow, an oil pipeline right on the homepage, imagine that.

DynCorp Caught By Congress In Human Trafficking


Wikipedia - DynCorp International

DynCorp International

Kroll Inc

Kroll

Cubic Corporation

Those are just a few of the "private contractors" mentioned within the Blackwater book. If anyone wants to go searching through those websites, feel free to do so. I might start a new thread on each of them if there's interest in that, but I want other people to contribute as well so I'm not the only person doing all this.

[edit on 11-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Who is responsible for continuing to elect politicians who don't have the best interest of the country at heart? The American people

Who is responsible for allowing those politicians to do the biddings of their corporate masters instead of We The People? The American people

Who is responsible for the continuing downward spiral towards socialism in this nation? The American people

The problem is people are willing to disregard the Constitution simply because they disagree with portions of it. The 2nd Amendment is a perfect example of that. Leftist retards would gladly ban all firearms if given the chance, while they fail to realize that is the only thing keeping them under the delusional state of "freedom" they believe they live in.

This is not a free nation, nor has it been for quite some time. The American people are to blame for that.

They are currently making their beds, it will eventually be their turn to lie in it.

Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Who is responsible for continuing to elect politicians who don't have the best interest of the country at heart? The American people

Who is responsible for allowing those politicians to do the biddings of their corporate masters instead of We The People? The American people

Who is responsible for the continuing downward spiral towards socialism in this nation? The American people

The problem is people are willing to disregard the Constitution simply because they disagree with portions of it. The 2nd Amendment is a perfect example of that. Leftist retards would gladly ban all firearms if given the chance, while they fail to realize that is the only thing keeping them under the delusional state of "freedom" they believe they live in.

This is not a free nation, nor has it been for quite some time. The American people are to blame for that.

They are currently making their beds, it will eventually be their turn to lie in it.

If you believe so much about what you believe in about Blackwater, why not post something with actual facts. I'm not asking you to post your Driver's License, or Blackwater ID or anything, since you mention on this thread that you worked for Blackwater.

slackerwire's thread

Enlighten us with facts and intelligent conversation, please. The thread is not only about Blackwater but about the Right-Wing agenda of the Bush Administration as well. Scahill may seem to you like he's left-wing and or got an agenda but maybe he sees through the hypocrisy as well as you or I and wants the public to see it for the truth it is and awaken the people to the cobra staring them in the face being the Bush Administration.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas



Specifically what facts would you like to see?

Some people are simply incapable of understanding that there is in fact a difference between a security contractor and a mercenary.

I would suggest this book, at least it gives a somewhat HONEST look at BWUSA and other PMC's.

Licensed to kill by Robert Pelton

Is Erik Prince a right wing religious nutjob? A little bit yes, but his personal beliefs had nothing to do with the job contractors are tasked with.

I am an equal opportunity offender and do not consider myself part of either "wing".

I will call out leftist morons like Scahill just as much as I call out right wing retards.


[edit on 11-5-2008 by slackerwire]

Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Specifically what facts would you like to see?

Some people are simply incapable of understanding that there is in fact a difference between a security contractor and a mercenary.

I would suggest this book, at least it gives a somewhat HONEST look at BWUSA and other PMC's.

Licensed to kill by Robert Pelton

Is Erik Prince a right wing religious nutjob? A little bit yes, but his personal beliefs had nothing to do with the job contractors are tasked with.

I am an equal opportunity offender and do not consider myself part of either "wing".

I will call out leftist morons like Scahill just as much as I call out right wing retards.


[edit on 11-5-2008 by slackerwire]

Any facts that you can back up with links, definitions, observations. I'm not left-wing or right-wing, I'm right down the middle. Whether you and I see eye to eye is not necessary but to actually understand where each other is coming from is where I'm trying to get to.

I know how to agree to disagree, which is what I've done with you so far. I know reality is based on perception, mixed with experiences, and intelligence, so in that there are different view points going to be expressed on here. Did you like the t-shirt link I posted on your thread?

[edit on 11-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by slackerwire


SW,

While there is a HUGE difference between Security Contractors and Mercs, would you not agree that basic controls need to be in place in regards to BW, or Dyncorp or any of the other myriad contractors currently in operation?

Semper

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Having a little trouble figuring out exactly what it is you want proven.

reply to post by semperfortis



I believe some controls are in order, but I am also a believer in the idea that you cannot put rules on war.

If an individual screws up, and does something "bad", then by all means hold that individual accountable for his actions. That goes for both PMC's and the military.

I find it funny that those who want to hold an entire organization responsible for the actions of a few individuals are also the ones who speak out loudly against things like racial stereotypes.

reply to post by slackerwire


I agree with your "No rules in war" comment. Having been there and got the tee shirt, I can tell you there are not going to be any anyway...

However, when you begin contemplating the use of security contractors within the borders of this nation, I begin to have trouble with the "no rules" concept.

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
reply to post by slackerwire

 

I agree with your "No rules in war" comment. Having been there and got the tee shirt, I can tell you there are not going to be any anyway...

However, when you begin contemplating the use of security contractors within the borders of this nation, I begin to have trouble with the "no rules" concept.

Semper

You make a the point I've been trying to make all along right there, SF. Blackwater was in New Orleans operating during hurricane Katrina and people's guns were taken away under the rules of Martial Law because of a National Emergency. While I understand what a National Emergency is and Martial Law as well, and the reasons for these rules during these times of crisis, so that looters can't have weapons, so anti-government believers can't take pot-shots at a soldier, Police Officer, or "private contractor" but the questions have to be asked here.

What happens to those weapons after the Martial Law and National Emergency is over? Do those weapons get given back to those people who are ripped from their homes? Do they get given monetary compensation to replace them? A lot of people spend hard earned money to buy weapons to defend themselves in a dire circumstance and then it's all taken away from them. Is it any wonder why the people mistrust the Government so much?

Not one bit.

[edit on 11-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by semperfortis


I have a problem with that as well. A few pages ago I said the moment I got wind of BW, or any other contractor violating the rights of Americans I would be the first one out in the streets engaging them.

Alot of people claim thats exactly what happened in NOLO, yet they are unable to provide factual evidence of a single instance of it.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


BW NEVER took part in any civilian firearm seizures. Those were performed by NOLO PD and the national guard.

Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by semperfortis

 

I have a problem with that as well. A few pages ago I said the moment I got wind of BW, or any other contractor violating the rights of Americans I would be the first one out in the streets engaging them.

Alot of people claim thats exactly what happened in NOLO, yet they are unable to provide factual evidence of a single instance of it.

So, you're saying newspaper articles aren't enough proof that Blackwater was in New Orleans, or that they weren't doing nasty things there? I'm clarifying with your statement there, not making an accusation or questioning you so much as attempting to make certain I understand what it is you're saying, slackerwire.

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant
As much as i'd hate to get involved in this type of discussion, i feel it's nessecary to put forward a point to do with Blackwater's PR agents, Namely Burson-Marsteller.

Note; i'm not picking on Blackwater here, but the people who do it's PR.

I'll begin with the introduction, The guy who runs Burson-Marsteller, a chap by the name of Mark Penn, is also Hillary Clinton's top consultant.

This could point to a few possibilities in itself, and the more paranoid aspect of my mind is currently screaming "Political manipulation! Political Manipulation!" from inside it's box.

Other possibilities include that which is obvious (or non-threatening) - That our friend Mark Penn is merely interested in advancing his career, and other less obvious ones like Mark Penn and Hillary having an affair of sorts.

Of course, that's just me being fantastical.

Burson-Marsteller also has international interests, from the PR of the Argentine Proceso de Reorganización Nacional (That's "The Military Junta" to you and me) to influencing the technological progress of Singapore.

The actions of this PR firm could be compared to that of another candidate's top aide, that of a group called DCI - which has ties to one or two aides to John McCain.

An article detailing DCI's involvement with the Burmese Junta.

If you really want to find out what's really going wrong with the world - find out who exactly it is that's encouraging the competition.

[edit on 11-5-2008 by Anti-Tyrant]

I got that quote by Anti-Tyrant from slackerwire's thread where we've been discussing back and forth about Blackwater via this thread as well.

slackerwire's thread

[edit on 12-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Anti-Tyrant has stated in U2U to Me that this agency is who represents Blackwater and also funnily enough Hillary Clinton. I wonder who else they represent currently or did in the past.

Burson-Marsteller

Can anyone find any organizational connections to anyone else important?

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Of course BWUSA was in NOLO after Katrina, but they certainly werent conducting any firearm seizures.

They were guarding private property of the wealthier citizens of NOLO. Hellm there was even a standoff between BW and some corrupt NOLOPD offciers who were trying to loot the nicer houses that had been evacuated.

reply to post by semperfortis


Really, Semper?

Now, I have a great respect for you... please do understand that. I must respectfully disagree with you on this.

Putting rules on our warfare is what separates us from the animals. This is why we need to treat POWs fairly, try our best to keep civilian casualties low, and not torture.

We need to set the example. If we don't, are we any different from the people that we are fighting?