Is it worth it for me to fill my mind with truth or is ignorance truly bliss?

Originally posted by devildogUSMC
it is next to nothing.

Well if that's the case then they're not very wise. Because they definitely know something, and not the nothing that you are explaining. Remember, they don't say that they know next to nothing, they say that they know nothing. Usually it is their greatest secret.

reply to post by devildogUSMC

"We are discussing what truth is."

What I see is people who work and do no harm get penalized everywhich way and those who lie and trick others do fine.

That is the definition of truth I get. So how do I run with that if I care about Truth?

I dunno.

reply to post by sarcastic

But I don't believe that the kids who just follow the rules get stepped on all the time especially the ones who tell the truth. Those who lie get away with everything.

What is right is made wrong? Everything is upside down? Welcome to the days we live in. Life is made up of many crazy-makers. If we can distinguish them, we are way ahead of the game.

The challenge is; to stand up for what you believe, when everyone else is telling you that you are wrong, or that "You imagined it!"

Everyone's comfort zones are really being challenged. Those that live in as much reality as possible, will be the greater survivors. Those that are the liars, and crazy makers, will not last, they will, and are...being exposed.

Take heart!

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


I only said next to nothing because I figured that the little we think we know might count for a little something, but honestly that is probably just wishful thinking. They mean that everything we think we know, we don't , nothing is certain, reality is a dream, we could never begin to understand anything. We know nothing. If you can somehow be aware of this, then you are wise.

reply to post by devildogUSMC

They mean that everything we think we know, we don't , nothing is certain, reality is a dream, we could never begin to understand anything. We know nothing. If you can somehow be aware of this, then you are wise.

Or are heading into depression!!

Originally posted by devildogUSMC
They mean that everything we think we know, we don't , nothing is certain, reality is a dream, we could never begin to understand anything. We know nothing. If you can somehow be aware of this, then you are wise.

Nah. That's not what they mean, you're projecting your own thoughts and your own doubt. Reality isn't a "dream" that is made up. The hpysical universe is very real and it follows laws and has a set number of elements and reactions that can take place etc. It's not a dream, it's a real place and a real experience.

There are definitely absolutes, and when you realize what "nothing is absolute" really means after accepting that everything about the universe is absolute and it makes sense to you and you can explain it clearly, then you're wise.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by sarcastic

 

But I don't believe that the kids who just follow the rules get stepped on all the time especially the ones who tell the truth. Those who lie get away with everything.

What is right is made wrong? Everything is upside down? Welcome to the days we live in. Life is made up of many crazy-makers. If we can distinguish them, we are way ahead of the game.

The challenge is; to stand up for what you believe, when everyone else is telling you that you are wrong, or that "You imagined it!"

Everyone's comfort zones are really being challenged. Those that live in as much reality as possible, will be the greater survivors. Those that are the liars, and crazy makers, will not last, they will, and are...being exposed.

Take heart!

Know this Is Truth ... It makes sense

Socrates said that life not examined is not worth living ("know thyself") but that goes over most people's heads today. Most of us have been brainwashed and can't see anything anymore.

reply to post by othehitmans


Good comment!

I think it is good to remember that what is being promoted is; confusion, codependency, and doubt. If confusion can be created by leaders or controllers in our life - it creates doubt. If we doubt what we believe, or what we are learning, we give our power away to those who will take advantage of it.

One of the biggest things that is promoted indirectly is; codependency. If we are made to feel bad about not agreeing with another's viewpoint, or not voting the way we are being coerced, or being shamed about standing up and questioning something, - we are being seduced into becoming codependent. We put aside our excitement, and independent thinking in the act of trying to please others, because perhaps we won't look good if we don't, or we won't be accepted!

As a society we are being coerced into not stepping away from the crowd, but to be dependent on what others want us to think, how to feel, and react.

Question, question everything!!

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. I am pretty sure that he meant nothing is absolute. Question everything, but don't ever think you know the absolute truth about anything. I am not saying don't search for truth or that there is no truth at all. I am saying that anything you try to claim to be truth beyond you're own personal truth, hence "know yourself" (because that is really all you can know), isn't necessaraly true for anyone but you. So know you know nothing, not the concept of nothing, NOTHING.

Originally posted by devildogUSMC
I am going to have to disagree with you on this one.

You can, but you're not really disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with universal logic.

I am pretty sure that he meant nothing is absolute.

But you're not absolutely sure about that. That's where we differ. I'm absolutely sure about everything that I know, nothing being one of them, and absolutely sure about the nothing that I do not know and can never know (what you're presenting), thus simultaneously sure about everything that I do not know in admittance of its absence in my information bank, that which is impossible to pinpoint because the absence of that knowledge means that I do not know what it is and could never even know that it was truly absent of my mind while it IS absent of my mind, until after I have been introduced to it which makes it no longer an absence of knowledge in my mind, (but I CAN admit that there are things that I do not know, I just don't know what they are! And the only way to know them is to figure out what they may be and to study them) and if I do not know what it is then I am a fool to admit that it is even relevent and to be placing my faith in it is a material befuddlement.

Question everything, but don't ever think you know the absolute truth about anything.

Well you seem to think that you know the absolute truth about nothing, thus making you absolutely unkowledgable. So here you're contradicting yourself. You're saying that the absolute truth about everything is that nothing is absolute, henceforth you are claiming that at least one thing (anything) is absolute. Am I helping you know thyself better?

I am not saying don't search for truth or that there is no truth at all. I am saying that anything you try to claim to be truth beyond you're own personal truth, hence "know yourself" (because that is really all you can know), isn't necessaraly true for anyone but you.

Well, this is dealing with subjectivism void of physical reality.(your flaw) There is a physical universe that we live in where there are truths that coincide with each other's realities. Your philosophy is only attempting to divide us and separate us, dumb us down and make us ignorant. For example: Salt or sodium is made up of the atoms and elements NaCl to form its molecule, that is the truth for all of us. Whether you choose to call it Na or Cl, salt or sodium is really irrelevent, when dealing with the physical reality we will all experience the same truth regardless of what symbols we choose to use to express its value. You can call it GhJk, but Na and Gh will inevitably be congruent and Jk and Cl will be also.

So know you know nothing, not the concept of nothing, NOTHING.

Well, if I know nothing then I must know the concept of nothing, if not then my life is worthless and I'm a rambling, insane, psychotic, delusional illogical idiot with no hold on language and no understanding of carnal existence and I have a commitment to knowing a nothing of whose concept that I don't understand, i.e. blind faith.

Everything is absolutely the same way as nothing is absolute. If it is required I will break this down thoroughly for you. Take it from a wise man. (I'd advise reading it a few times)

[edit on 6-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


I'm not trying to fight with you. I do disagree with you. I don't think you're insane or rambling. I did not state that anything was absolute. For all you know you are dreaming and salt is something that you made up. Nobody knows. You might be right you right be wrong. Honestly, how many times has what was thought by many to be an "absolute truth" been proven false? And then, who's to say it is false? I just feel like the universe and everything in it are so complex and mysterious that to truly and completely understand any of it is impossable. What if you find out salt is more than sodium chloride? What if there are other unmeasurable variables present in it that you don't know about. That nobody knows about. Millions of unmeasurable, undetectable, completely unknown elements, making all salt different. You can't say that isn't possable. You can't say that anything is possible or isn't possable. This seemingly material frame that our existence is somewhat governed by while we are awake could be the key to the meaning of life, or completely insignificant on any scale. If there even is a meaning to life. I'm just going to learn what I can and go with the flow. If nothing else it's entertaining...maybe

reply to post by devildogUSMC


You're obviously confused and I hope you come out of this dream state philosophy on reality that you have. If it's a dream as you say, we're all experiencing the same one because my salt is your salt.

What if you find out salt is more than sodium chloride?

Regardless of what it ever becomes to be known as or consist of, it will be the same for all of us and always had and has been, we only discovered something new about it. We are remembering the truth, together, a truth that is the same for all of us. We all exist of this eternal universe.

Whether you see the sun as green or red, yellow or purple, it doesn't matter. The science of that sun is the same for both of us, and we can share it with one another. When it supernova's for you, it will for me as well.

The eternal universe is a perfect and harmonious synchronicity.

[edit on 6-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


You have not even the slightest doubt? I respect your theories and beliefs and I would like to hear more, but I have to get to bed. I am so absolutely, positively, 100 percent tired.Can we pick this back up tomorrow?

I spelled percent wrong; I was tired.

[edit on 6-5-2008 by devildogUSMC]

You see, if we discovered that salt was different for all of us, then we'd all know this, and this would be at least one absolute truth shared between us.

Yes, we can pick this back up tomorrow, have a good night and I've enjoyed the chat. Thank you for the thread.

[edit on 6-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


Goodnight and thank you as well.

reply to post by devildogUSMC


Our conviction is based on absolutes. If we have an elusive belief system it will be difficult, if not impossible, to have conviction.

Obscurity and elusiveness creates fear, anger, and doubt about everything, and creates a weak belief structure, with no conviction.

To develop conviction is to develop strength. It is okay to have a philosophical view on matters as long as we don't get too caught up in the rhetoric, and then become too gray!

Everyone's mantra should be this:

"Right, wrong, or indifferent. This is how I feel!"

Often, if we develop a strong stance, our conviction will grow, and so will our insight.

reply to post by MatrixProphet


I know what you guys are trying to say. Most of the time I do either agree, disagree, or feel indifferent about most things, but only on a certain level. At any time, however, no matter how strongly I feel about something, I can usually make just as strong of an argument playing devil's advocate. That being said, I hope you can understand why I am feeling the way I do about absolute truth. What if the inconsistancies in the salt that was discussed earlier were undetectable, unmeasurable, and consistantly mutated on a completely random basis? Also, what if these mutations interacted not with our physical selves, but our inner selves, in a way only determined by what one is thinking at the exact moment that the interaction occurs?

reply to post by devildogUSMC


The point is: to believe in something! There is too much free floating anxiety in blowing with the wind. Even absolutes can have variables.

The stronger and more convinced that something is the truth, the more I can stand by it - regardless of whether it has inconsistencies. It usually means that I need to do more research to understand the aspects I am missing.

Example: I believe in God. There are many seeming inconsistencies connected to him. Do I stop believing that he exists because of that? Or do I allow myself to be open to new revelations regarding him? Religion no longer worked for me, but does that mean that the concept of God doesn't? We have a tendency to throw the baby out with the bath water. This is a human weakness.

There are consequences attached with every choice or decision we make. Even if it is one of; straddling the fence, it too, will have consequences.

I would rather stand strong for something that I believe in and be wrong, than being indecisive.

Are you fearful of being wrong? Many can't take the judgment! I say...go for it.

reply to post by MatrixProphet


I'm not fearful of being wrong. I just feel the need to continuously question everything including myself and everything else. Maybe there are absolute truths out there, the thing is, how can anyone be sure? There is always more, and sometimes the smallest development can enitirely change a theory. I feel like as long as I have the ability to ask questions, analyze, and discover new ideas and theories, I can never say that something is absolute no matter how stongly I feel about it. I have my beliefs and I am more than open-minded. I just think this life, this world, this universe, is so uncomprehendably vast, random, and mysterious that we cannot even begin to truly understand it or anything in it completely and absolutely. It is beyond us to comprehend, and I am fine with that. And that doesn't mean I am on the fence; I percieve that 2 plus 2 is 4 and NaCl is salt, but I am not so convinced in my "perceptions" that I would automatically dismiss anything to the contrary; is that not the percieved definition of open-mindedness. I guess the closest thing to an absolute truth that I can suscribe to is a "mutual perception" which I believe we all share many, but only until they are tested, developed on, changed, mutated, destroyed, etc., then everyone's perception changes.

[edit on 6-5-2008 by devildogUSMC]

[edit on 6-5-2008 by devildogUSMC]