Is it worth it for me to fill my mind with truth or is ignorance truly bliss?

I have spent the majority of my adult life on a quest for truth. I have been willing to go to any lengths up until this point. I even joined the United States Marine Corps. only because I felt I needed to know what really went on. I wish I had not. Every answer I get and Every inch I come closer to the truth in many arenas cause me nothing but psychological and emotional pain. I don't think I can win this fight anymore but I also don't think I can quit. I know the motto of this website is to deny ignorance, but honestly sometimes lately I wish for it. Does anyone else feel the same way?

reply to post by devildogUSMC


A good question, but I'd say yes, it is worth of it to get to know the truth, altho it can be evasive. But there are few good methods to start with, the most important one: Know thyself.

Soo, what it was like in the marines?

reply to post by devildogUSMC


It's too late for you now, once you start you can't go back.

But I know what you mean. Ignorance is bliss, and the majority of people are there happily. Which s what "they" are counting on..

I'm reminded of that movie The Truman Show. Perhaps ignorance can seem like bliss, but is such bliss worth the price of living your life within a lie?

Maybe it would be worth it if you never found out it was a lie. I feel like I ate the same pill Neo from the matrix did but sadly I am not "The One". Now what?

You will find that 'truth', as defined by your post, is subjective and can be either factual or false depending on what angle you look at it.

There is nothing wrong with seeking out these tidbits of 'facts' but they do nothing on a grander scale than to add to a particular 'story' or way of seeing things. (perspective on life.)

Life is comprised of billions of stories all competing to come to the forefront, as it were...there is really only one truth...and that truth is 'you'.

I know saying it like that sounds impractical and out there.
Words, and how we have used them for centuries, (as tools of the ego, which in and of itself is a tool of consciousness, although it has overridden consciousness...temporarily), do not help to get the essence across unless you learn to look past the words to where they are pointing.

Not sure I can clarify much more beyond what I have already said, at this point, except to again say, that which we seek, is in the end, not the 'truth' that we desired to know.
And that 'truth' was in us all along. (I know, sounds like Dorothy from W.of Oz, but there is some truth to that.)

Peace, and enjoy the journey!

dAlen

reply to post by dAlen


Thank you Dalen. Your reply really made me think. I just always wished I could change things and I fully believed that one day I would. Now that I have tried, and it was a pretty good try, I realize that I probobly won't be able to change anything. All I can do is cry about it all. It is so frustrating, but what you said really does make sense and I will try to keep everything in perspective.

Im sure it is never easy to come to the realization that you have been repeatedly lied to. Especially when you are making life and death decisions based on this false information. I can't even pretend to imagine to know how I would feel if I was asked to kill for my country knowing full well that the reasons behind it were less than honorable.

I salute you for deciding to sacrifice your freedom and personal security in order to defend our country. I can only speak for myself here, but I do not level any blame toward our soldiers and Marines for what has taken place in Iraq. You are as much of victim of the liars and deceivers as the Iraqi people and the American tax payers.

All you can do is apply your best judgement, do what you feel is right, and try and make it out of that hell hole in one piece. You will likely struggle with this issue for many months and years to follow, but take comfort in knowing that you have done your duty to the best of your ability and leave it at that. Do not carry the weight of this mess on your shoulders, you are not to blame.

Best of luck and welcome

reply to post by BlackOps719


Thank you Blackops, that means alot. For most of us, it doesn't matter one bit why we are in combat. It only matters that we are in combat and we fighting for ourselves and the guys next to us and that is it. It's hard to think when you are trying not to die.

I think it's always worth it to know the truth, and it's not like you can stop knowing that nothing is right. However, I think it's not so much just knowing something but what you do with what you know. You say you want to change things, so do I. I want to change everything and I can't do that if I'm walking around in a cloud of ignorance.

You have to know how the world really works, what really motivates people and what actually makes changes in society before you can figure out how to change anything. Granted, the path to truth is cold, lonely and leads to nihilism when you realize that nothing is true but past that you can begin to build up your own truth which is the only truth any of us can be sure of.

The search for truth is like a personal Armageddon or Ragnarok, everything is destroyed and burned to the ground but when it is all over you begin to rebuild, free of prior constraints or emotional responsibilities. If you learn to see the truth in everything you can persuade anyone by speaking the undeniable truth of any situation. You have to enlighten yourself before you can enlighten anyone else. You have to free yourself before you can free anyone else. You have to change your outlook before you can change other's.

WOW!!!
You just said it. Everyone on here is so great. I really have learned alot from this site and now that I am actually participating it seems I will learn more. You people really care like I do. I was beggining to give up on humanity completely. It seems everywhere I look the only motivation for anything is money, power, and pure greed. I am just not like that. I used to think everyone was good for the most part and I would have done anything to help anyone, but I found out that living like that will get you nowhere. That makes me incredibly sad because if everyone lived like that things would be great. If everyone could just help and trust each other.

Originally posted by devildogUSMC
reply to post by dAlen

 

Thank you Dalen. Your reply really made me think. I just always wished I could change things and I fully believed that one day I would. Now that I have tried, and it was a pretty good try, I realize that I probobly won't be able to change anything. All I can do is cry about it all. It is so frustrating, but what you said really does make sense and I will try to keep everything in perspective.

Mabey you can not change the world, but you can help change other peoples perspective . You can other people define their own truth for themselves.

You can find good and bad in everything. Something that starts out good, has the human equation in it. So there is the possibility for corruption.
I think you can find a conspiracy or the possible conspiracy in anything for that fact because humans will conspire. So one thing may be good for someone, and may be bad for someone else. So truth really is irrelevant as a whole, but is an individual thing. Its a matter of how much do you want to form your idea of self from what was told to you, or from what you have experienced for yourself.

Ama

[edit on 2-5-2008 by amatrine]

[edit on 2-5-2008 by amatrine]

Yes I get what you are saying. I read some books to that affect by Don Miguel Ruiz (The Four Agreements) as well as others. I still think that somewhere out there there has to be at least one great universal truth that somehow we are all missing. Maybe we will never find out. Maybe we aren't meant to. But there has to be something and I want to know what it is.

If there was one universal truth, then in essence , everything would revolve around it because everything else would be unstable, and need its stability.

That is why we had sun worship.

Some will say God is that Universal truth.

True, we may never know while we are here.

Ama

Exactly. That's why I don't understand how anyone can truly believe in any sort of organized religion. There are just to many things being said to be absolute truth. How can any thinking person not have serious doubt to any of the stories? I just don't get that.Faith?

I never have either. Organized religion is one persons, or group of persons, teaching their truth as the only one.

If anything, they should be putting forth their ideas and let you choose what is your truth. No join , sign the dotted line, and this is the way it is.

ama

Originally posted by devildogUSMC

1- I just always wished I could change things and I fully believed that one day I would.
...All I can do is cry about it all. It is so frustrating...

2 - I used to think everyone was good for the most part and I would have done anything to help anyone, but I found out that living like that will get you nowhere.

3 - That's why I don't understand how anyone can truly believe in any sort of organized religion. There are just to many things being said to be absolute truth.

Your post made me think of something that I heard last night with Eckhart Tolle & Oprah (Im watching the online video classes they have archived.)
Anyway lesson 8 kind of dealt with what you said in point 1 above. I will see if I can summarize.

1) I believe it is instilled in man-kind to want to make change and to make a difference.
This seems to be natural, and there is nothing wrong with it per say, and can be quite enjoyable at a certain point in life, given the 'right' approach is taken.

But...typically when we go about trying to make change we turn into that which we fight. "That which you resist persist". This does not mean, or imply, that one should not try to make change - its more a statement in watching how one goes about in making the change happen.

I have observed in myself as well as in others a pattern...typically when we fail at our endeavor or are slowed down for some reason, our thoughts turn negative. We can worry, be fearful, angry, etc.

Note that none of the above help to create change, but it is the typical response of the mind. So our actions then are tainted by negativity and the change that we force to come about are born out of this 'sour' fruit.

One must do what they can now...and if nothing can be done, dont resist...accept.
This does not mean accept that you are 'stuck in the mud with your jeep' and just stay there...but more like 'face up' and realize that you are indeed in the mud...and notice that wishing you were not there or complaining about it does nothing to get you out...

Not sure how well this comes across in writing, and with how Im putting it - but the essence is there. As little of significance as it may seem, the attitude we take into making change, i.e, if we resist/resent what is - will actually poison our efforts.

Have you ever seen someone say they wanted to change the world with politics, but then ended up being as corrupt as the people before them, if not more?
You can not use 'the devils tool' and not get burnt. - yes, make change, but negativity is indeed the devils tool, so to speak.

2) We all go through stages of experience.
Life is indeed a great puzzle waiting to be put together, we only have the pieces given to us, which our inherent within us at our birth, and that which our social/religious milieu passes on.

Once we move on into the world we start to see the bigger picture, and parts of the picture can be quite dark...until you see how it fits into the whole. This may not be too encouraging, but the saying "its darker before light" (something like that) holds true...hang in there - and as the 'good book' says, "seek with all your heart.
- A key I point out to 'religious people is that the search must be from the heart, not searching in the fear of ones own dogma, etc...or you will never find.

3) Yes there is an absolute truth as many evangelicals believe, but its not what they 'think'. Religion is a 'pointer' or 'map' which people mistook the 'map' as being the land. (maybe not the best analogy.)
But if you can get past the symbols, etc. there are some practical applications, which are non dogmatic, and which do not force change upon another. (True and lasting change comes from within.)

You know, I saw a movie the other day...Evan almight.
And the point at the end was basically that you change the world, one at a time.
(i.e. yourself.) I have to admit, for some of us that can seem boring and not a true way to make change...but it really is the only way. Once we can establish a solid base, its kind of like a light that starts to shine within us so that others can begin to see how to construct their own house, so to speak.

Anyway, as you pointed out, you are not alone...
It does feel sometimes that the world is totally at opposite ends from where we are, but we must always remember that polar ends are actually connected with whats inbetween. Reminds me of something else out of the Bible where it says, to the effect, that no trial is given to us that someone else hasnt experienced.

While our journeys may be unique to ourselves, the overall theme, so to speak, is the same.

Be encouraged!

Peace

dAlen

You are a wise person. Everything I've been hearing here, for the most part, has been extremely helpful and insightful. You are some of the most enlightened people I have met to date. Thank you guys for trying to answer and doing such a remarkable job doing so. I really didn't think many others thought about this but I can tell that some of you have put a great deal of thought into it. I'll sleep better tonight. Thank you all.

Originally posted by devildogUSMC
Does anyone else feel the same way?

Yes, I suppose ignorance is bliss, however, ignorance is the root of most all our social woes. Personally, I do not like ignorant people. Ignorant people cause everyone else so much trouble. Ignorant people are like monkeys on everyones back. Yet, without ignorant people, who would sweep our floors and clean our toilets and pick up our trash? Thus, I suppose, ignorant people are a fact of life ~ they work the jobs the rest of us are overqualified for. Yet, do we need so many? Why would you choose ignorance over knowledge? Yes, knowing certain things can cause stress and anxiety, but knowing provides you the opportunity and advantage of doing something about it, being ready, prepared, etc.

Take for example this coming collapse of the US dollar and economy caused by the trade imbalance. Knowing this was coming 3 years ago allowed me to prepare and be ready. While the ignorant people are now blissfully suffering the consequences of their run amok spending and consumption habits of the last few years, I'm sitting here quite comfy and content. While the dopes were racking up debt buying new cars, home entertainment centers, iPods, video games, fancy designer clothes, dining out, going on vacations, and buying other needless China-Mart crap, I started to downsize, sold all my non-essential possessions, bought only the bare minimum living essentials, paid off all debt, and saved every penny left over. When gas hits $7.50 a gallon by next fall, and food costs 4 times what it does now, it won't even phase me, and I'll be laughing at all the spoiled ignorant blissfully unemployed and starving monkeys.

Yeah, deny ignorance!

It's a battle lost in advance. Every answer only brings more questions.

Enjoy the journey or simply let things come to you. Ignorance is bliss too, less to worry about