Is it worth it for me to fill my mind with truth or is ignorance truly bliss?

reply to post by devildogUSMC


Yep! .... It seems an Absolute Truth in what our reality truly is and the facts both current and historical that apply to such reality are exceedingly elusive. If the "truth" really is so different then what we are taught through our school systems and mass media outlets then we must know that it is because those P.T.B that control such systems somehow benefit the most from the manufactured reality. Then again if no Powers That Be actually maintain such control we are left with no villains. Only a reality that seems "mis-represented" but may never have been. Frustrating .... and without resolution ... unless you simply except reality is exactly what we have always been told it is.

reply to post by DrPaulisENKI


Reality can't be what we have been told it is because nobody knows it to tell us, and they are fools if they think they do, and we are fools if we believe them. Since forever it's been said that a wise man knows he knows nothing. Now with all our scientific advancements and spiritual insights and theorys about aliens creating us and religions we really are proving that we know nothing. Does that make us wise?

reply to post by devildogUSMC


When a wise man admits that he knows nothing he means it in a different way. He literally knows the concept of nothing and what it means to physical reality.

Tell me, where could you ever find nothing?

Wise men definitely know something, and that something is often times nothing.

It's not crazy, it's not insanity, it's an acquired taste.

When wise men tell you that they know nothing, they aren't telling you that they are stupid, they are telling you that you are stupid because you are ignorant of nothing; ironic Ah, the riddles of the wise men.

(I don't think you're stupid, I'm just sharing what they mean)

[edit on 5-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


I am actually pretty sure that is not what they mean. What they mean is that there is so much to know that we could never find out and the little bit that we do know is a very little insignificant amount of knowledge compared to all the knowledge in the universe, so little that it is next to nothing.

To the OP:


Your time would be better spent contemplating the meaning of truth, instead of trying to find second-hand truths.

Which i'm sure you know by now can be found everywhere you look.


It's important to realise the difference between first-hand and second-hand truth.

first-hand truth is a truth that you have seen, a truth you have felt.

It is something that YOU KNOW is a truth, not something that SOMEONE ELSE knows is a truth.

Which is second-hand truth.

Third-hand truth is even worse - that would be something that someone else heard from someone who knows the truth.

Which amounts to nothing more than a rumour, or propoganda*.

This is the meaning of subjective truth.

However the meaning of truth itself goes far deeper, and only one with the wisdom of clarity can perceive the true meaning of truth.

After all, one must know truth in order to know the meaning of it.

Cast your mind back to something that YOU KNOW is a truth - it could be anything from something you have said to something you have done, it is YOUR truth, and it belongs to no one but yourself.

It is my belief that Truth is nothing other than that which maintains our sanity.

However, Truth Can Change - Maybe you remembered it wrongly - you said something a bit differently or you did something differently from how you remember.

If you cannot remember, then that truth is lost.

However, realising that the truth has been lost is a truth in itself.

You could perhaps compare this to the old "Does a tree fall if no one is around to hear it?" - Well, you could wander about in the forest for a bit and find a fallen tree, which would mean yes.

Ignorance of the truth is Ignorance of the Self, and while certain texts speak of overcoming the delusion of the self, Ignorance of something merely means that you refuse to face it.

And of course, Refusing to Face the Truth denotes Fear.


*I may have gone overboard here, perhaps fourth-hand truth is more like a rumour.

[edit on 5-5-2008 by Anti-Tyrant]

Is it better to fill your mind with truth?

Naturally, and but a small truth will go a long way.

Is it better to practice ignorance in pursuit of bliss?

Never, Ignorance provides temporary escapism and nothing more.

It is about as worthless as a lie to a child - it appears to have worth, but the truth lies within the value of ignorance.

[edit on 5-5-2008 by Anti-Tyrant]

Ignorance is bliss untill the thing you are ignorant of hits you on the head with it's cold, hard consequenses. If you are ignorant of a bus heading for you at break neck speeds you will still get very dead, if on the other hand you see that bus maybe you can get out of the way in time.

reply to post by Harman


While you are correct in that ignorance carries consequences, i think the true purpose of learning to overcome ignorance is to become aware that you can be ignorant of yourself, and of the various things you can do to others.

And such individuals will say "I can't change who i am" or "It's not my fault the way i was born".

Which is like trying to excuse immaturity when you're a kid by saying "But i am a kid!".

Such people are running from their own problems, unwilling to face them and learn from them.

It would seem that in modern society "ignorance is bliss" is quite a prevalent sentiment.

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant
reply to post by Harman

 

While you are correct in that ignorance carries consequences, i think the true purpose of learning to overcome ignorance is to become aware that you can be ignorant of yourself, and of the various things you can do to others.

And such individuals will say "I can't change who i am" or "It's not my fault the way i was born".

Which is like trying to excuse immaturity when you're a kid by saying "But i am a kid!".

Such people are running from their own problems, unwilling to face them and learn from them.

It would seem that in modern society "ignorance is bliss" is quite a prevalent sentiment.

I agree, my reply was just about the whole reality beyond what the mainstream shows us and not about human nature in total. But indeed, you see them everywhere, the persons that try and shift the blame upon something else then their own responsibility.

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant
To the OP:


Your time would be better spent contemplating the meaning of truth, instead of trying to find second-hand truths.


It's important to realise the difference between first-hand and second-hand truth.

first-hand truth is a truth that you have seen, a truth you have felt.

It is something that YOU KNOW is a truth, not something that SOMEONE ELSE knows is a truth.



[edit on 5-5-2008 by Anti-Tyrant]

In all seriousness, would that not be a second hand truth, as that is your understanding of a truth and second hand truth. My truth may include things I hear from others and believe to be true as still truth. I'm not trying to be a smart@$$, but using your rationale anything you tell me about a "first-hand truth" and a "second-hand truth" is only truth to you and a second-hand truth to me. My truth may vary and include other sources other than my own thoughts and senses as truth as long as I believe them to be true.

[edit on 5-5-2008 by devildogUSMC]

I guess you can only say what your truth is and if someone else wants to adapt that into their own truth then it becomes truth for them at that time. You cannot tell anyone what is true for them. I can think something up or know something in my dreams and never tell anyone; that would make something true for me, absolutely, and no one else. However, I can be told about a dream of a trusted friend, believe them, and that would be truth for me also. I could also tell someone else about either dream, have them believe me, and that also would be truth for them. Or I could tell someone my dream, have them not believe me, and it is truth for me and not them. I can also make up a lie, have someone believe me and it becomes true for them. Just because it is a lie for me does not mean it is not the truth for another and vice versa. I guess it can go on and on. Thats just what I think though. Anyone can have their own truth about truth in my truth. This is a tough one.

[edit on 5-5-2008 by devildogUSMC]

Originally posted by devildogUSMC
My truth may vary and include other sources other than my own thoughts and senses as truth as long as I believe them to be true.

[edit on 5-5-2008 by devildogUSMC]

True.

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant


True for me too. I wish I put a little more effort into defining what truth is for me before I got so caught up in looking for it. I guess I've been searching all this time for answers, not truth. I have alot to think about.

Originally posted by devildogUSMC
reply to post by Anti-Tyrant

 

True for me too.

I wish I put a little more effort into defining what truth is for me before I got so caught up in looking for it. I guess I've been searching all this time for answers, not truth. I have alot to think about.

One good way to know the truth is; to contrast it against that which is
in error or false or a lie. Ultimate Truth is of course more complex then that. It also relies on the willingness of the receiver to hold it, and objectively measure all other propositions against it. The light of that held truth, will grow brighter and brighter, as it is purged of all falsehoods.
"and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free!" Jesus

reply to post by Howie47

"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free".

I love this quote. I add to it; "but first it will make you miserable!"

What you are saying is correct. Speak the truth and people will hate you.

I like this quote:

"Once your mind has been stretched to a new idea, it never returns to original dimension."
-Oliver Wendell Holmes

There is a Biblical saying; "With much knowledge comes much responsibility."

I have been taught a number of things that I wished the heck I had not learned. But at the same time am flattered that I was considered worthy to receive the information! Quite a dichotomy at times.

reply to post by devildogUSMC


So, if telling the truth doesn't get you where you want, what do you tell your kids?

Do you leave out half the story? Do you tell them, there's a Santa Claus?

What chance will they have to be able to predict how to live "a good life" or is Life itself all just random blow-by?

This is a very disturbing idea. What you're saying is, I have no future I can learn how to count on.

: (

reply to post by sarcastic


Maybe it is a little disturbing and maybe it isn't, I'm not exactly sure yet. I have no idea what to tell my kids; It's a good thing I have none yet. I guess It's only disturbing if you are disturbed by it. I'm not and I don't feel like I have no future to count on. I feel like I have a future with limitless possibilities and infinte wonder. No telling what I'm in store for. It excites me actually. I embrace the unknown which includes life, the universe, love, and every other wonderful thing that nobody knows anything about for sure. It's not such a bad way to be, no?

Is that the same as pretending you are going to have a future?

Sometimes in my head I get ideas that seem to come from somewhere else.

I watch to see how those ideas pan out because I don't know what to expect.

What my teachers say always is just follow the rules.

But I don't believe that the kids who just follow the rules get stepped on all the time especially the ones who tell the truth. Those who lie get away with everything.

reply to post by sarcastic


I have no idea what you are talking about. We aren't discussing telling the truth and telling lies or getting away with anything. We are discussing what truth is and if it's worth seeking and contemplating. If it's better to remain ignorant regarding certain subject matter to save you're mind from undue stress. Or maybe the stress is overdue. Or maybe it isn't stressful but fulfilling. Only you can decide that. I'm not telling you to do or think anything.