The Conspiracy against Manhood.

Originally posted by Conspiriology


Yeah no wonder the guy thought I had chains around my neck, he really IS worried the feminists are emasculating men. I got some disturbance from this thread starter in another thread where I was wondering why males talk about woman like they are trash and he starts going all over me as if I was Phil Donahue and Alan Alda all wrapped into one.

Con, whether you realise it or not, In many ways you have already been intellectually emasculated. Go back and look at some of those comments. Men are resonsible for the shoes women wear?

I have been trying to explain the shape of this beast I see, but my descriptions are obviously not as descriptive as I would like. So let em try a different attempt.

Consider communism. A seemingly simple idea. Yet every attempt to implement this idea has led to totalitarianism. This is not an accident, but an inherent necessity, as communism is contradictory to basic human nature. In much the same way, feminism seems harmless on the surface. But when you examine the precepts of feminist legal theory, educational theory, and political theory logically, a monstrous shape begins to emerge.

The problem is, many of the ideas which most every man and woman accept in America as "right" as it concerns the sexes, is actually, when viewed logically, perverse, fascist, and misandrist. But how often have any of us ever questioned these ideas? Allmost none, because anytime someone does, he becomes caricatured as a mysogonist, paranoid, woman hater.

No I don't think woman are extremist feminist unless he can define extremism I can only assume she is very very feminine.

You miss the point. it doesnt matter if any woman or man alive today is an extremist feminst. The damage has been done, our institutions, our laws, our very morality has been perverted. The "anti-male" sentiment, and laws many here see, are only the beginning. Now that the underlying philosophies are accepted, the belief itself needs no more help or support than the people who act according to its precepts blindly.


This is why I keep comming back to communism. Once Karl Marx created the idea, once Lenin gave it some bite, the idea no longer needed extremists. Millions flocked to its siren songs, and paid the ferrymans fee as a result.

Their are laws that one can assume are un-fair to males and I believe the study about boys also the decrease in testosterone levels because of plastic. That is a Fact. Not only that but after you wash plastic in a dishwasher it releases even MORE of the chemical that causes it. This has been seen and observed in our oceans also where there are underwater graveyards of discarded plastics as large as the state of mass and has had a dramatic affect on male species of marine life.

You see the laws as isolated events. Outliers if you will. What you dont seem to understand, is that all these seeming disparate events are tied together by an underlying matrix of ideology. And the sad thing is, I suspect most of those who casually allign themselvwes with it dont even understand its logical implication themselves. Hell Im only now begiing to myself.

As for any conspiracy theory, I think he listens to Tom Lycos too much

Actually, I dont know that name. Is he any good or is he a crackpot. (well, relatively speaking that is)

Wow,, quoting stalin in calling astyanax an atheist evolutionist who like many of his camp, can't wait for the NWO to take place. Now THIS is getting interesting.

I dont recall calling him an athiest evolutionist. I simply pointed out that he was, whether he knew it or not, carrying the feminist water.

Responsible for what? Just what point are you trying to make

This. If a child is taken into a school, and taught nonsene, you don'tblame the child for spouting nonsense you blame the teacher for teaching it. ChristianSoldier was attempting to say that those men who have been indoctirnated into this sucide pact, did so due to weakness. I was simply pointing out that they can't help it. It was taught to us in school in our every activity, in every grade. They have indoctrinated entire generations of men and women, starting in knidergarten. I doubt any of the teachers ever even knew what they were doing. They were just following the "studies" of the leanred men at the great educational universities.

Just as a Jewsih Philosopher managed to create an ideology whcih nearly murdered the world, a few extemsists in the 60's were able to create a ideology that will "only" murder the men.

it's true that at one point in time men and women worked equally (apparently, based on damage to skeltoons) to hunt, and probably gather. However even groups of people like Native Americans, who had been cut off from Eruopean and Oriental influences had clear distinction between men and women.
The reason's fairly clear, men are generaly disposed for hunting, women for bearing and raising children.
Are they locked to these roles? Of course not. Well, men can't bear children, of course, but they are able to raise them.
I've always viewed men and women as a yin/wang sort of deal. different, but equal parts of the other. Most of the guys i know feel good when they are working on something manual, doing actual work. They tend to screw around or not take it seriously when it comes to computer work, even the folks i work with at a computer store.
Most of the women I know excell at thinking and designing artisticly.
"The farmer and his wife" almost always is followed by 'salt of the earth."

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed

What I quoted (from your post is) a picture perfect example of feminist propaganda. You may not even be aware of how misandrist, and sorry to say ignorant, those comments are, precisely becasue the indoctrination has penetrated so deeply.

In fact, O Erect One, they come from an understanding of sexual selection, as described by Darwin in his 'other' book, The Descent of Man, and in particular the concept of runaway sexual selection, also known to zoologists as 'Fisherian runaway' after the man, R.A. Fisher, who first proposed it, in 1915. Was the conspiracy against manhood already active then? As well as in 1871, when Darwin first proposed sexual selection?

Originally posted by Shazam The Unbowed


Consider communism. A seemingly simple idea. Yet every attempt to implement this idea has led to totalitarianism. This is not an accident, but an inherent necessity, as communism is contradictory to basic human nature. In much the same way, feminism seems harmless on the surface. But when you examine the precepts of feminist legal theory, educational theory, and political theory logically, a monstrous shape begins to emerge.

I agree with much of what you say and my basis for how a man should act and be is has nothing to do with their gender but that they are people too.

You jumped to this conclusion I am some brainwashed victim of the feminist movement merely because I didn't agree with calling mylie Cyrus a whore. I don't now and won't ever give a rats butt what YOU say about it either. I think guys that talk that way about them are part of the reason we have problems like we do. Ya know, I just get tired of hearing rap music calling bitches and ho's and portraying them as T&A while some hip hop wanna killa cop rap wannabe has them climbing all over some black baggie panst bling bling breasted bigshot lookin like he is quasi available and fashionably aloof. I see it in the music videos and I think guys that act that way are losers and the woman they got acting like that are doing it to get OUR approval.

They don't need our approval and we sure as hell shouldn't need theirs. This culture only exascerbates the situation. What follows are woman coming up seeing thats the kind of way they got to act and guys come up acting like they are second class T&A.

I think what screwed everything up was when we started the double income tax bracket. From that point on the family has suffered, I know because I have been alive long enough to see it actually get worse.

I think kids are raised by surrogate parents without a Dad the but rather a child care facility we all suffer as a Nation. I hear Maury Povich saying "John, you are NOT the father" with woman giving maury a third and fourth try to find some kids Dad is to say this Country is in a sad state of affairs.


I wasn't saying you called astyanx that, I just have experience posting in many threads where his worldview is well known and you had em pegged to a tee.


- Con

[edit on 7-5-2008 by Conspiriology]

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed

I dont recall calling (Astyanax) an atheist evolutionist. I simply pointed out that he was, whether he knew it or not, carrying the feminist water.

Well, Shazam, you'll have deduced from my last post that I am indeed the kind of person Conspiriology calls an evolutionist. And yes, I'm an atheist. Our mutual interlocuter knows me well, though not nearly as well as he thinks he does.

Let me add another piece of information about myself for you. I am the native of a poor, backward South Asian country.

In my country, feminism is little more than a strange and rather threatening Western concept. Women in my country are, generally speaking, drudges. They work from the moment they wake up in the morning to the time they fall asleep at night, and they are the first to wake each day and the last to sleep. It is the only way to find time for all they must do. They cook, clean and sew, of course; they nurse and care for their children, of course; but they are also at the eternal beck and call of their husbands, who would consider it an offence against manhood to be seen doing anything that smacks of 'women's work'. In addition, women work in the fields, go to market and walk home burdened with the day's shopping, collect firewood, light and tend the fire, draw and carry water. They can do little else without the permission of their husbands. They are widely considered stupid -- 'A woman's knowledge is no longer than the handle of a rice-spoon'. An speaking of rice, at mealtimes they eat last (eldest son first, then Papa, then the rest of the kids and the father's mother). Their needs are always placed last on the family list. They are, statistically, more poorly nourished, more poorly educated, more often in need of medical attention -- but not, sadly, in receipt of it -- than men.

In addition -- and this is a real problem -- women in my country are increasingly the breadwinners of their families. Many are forced to work as housemaids in the Middle East, under appalling conditions that often include sexual slavery and no legal recourse whatsover. The men stay at home and (don't) look after the children. Often they drink up most of the money the women send home.

Ghastly, primitive, hideously backward? Indeed. Yet -- and here's the kicker -- the situation in my country with regard to women is actually relatively good. Compared with the other nations of South Asia -- India included -- my country has vastly better statistics with respect to women's nutrition, health and education, with respect to maternal mortality and HIV infection among married women, with respect to statutory recognition of women's rights and such horrors as human trafficking. There are no child brides. Compare it with a place like Afghanistan and it's paradise -- which is what the tourist brochures often call it.

My friend: the rise of the West -- that magnificent, complex culture, that economic and military might, the quality of life its citizens now enjoy -- all these, at least in part, are directly attributable to the slow yet progressive recognition of women as individuals rather than chattels, together with their gradual yet inexorable emancipation and empowerment. The process began among the Germanic tribes of northern Europe in ancient times; Tacitus commented on the uppitiness of their women, I seem to recall; certainly, other observers did. Such comments have been made about European women by non-European observers for some two thousand years at least. The world and culture you inhabit were built in partnership with women, something that only the West can boast. And not all of the West, not all the time; historians have pointed out that the Allies won the Second World War in part because they were willing and able to mobilize women into the workforce, which the Germans would not do. Albert Speer, who was Minister of Production of the Third Reich after Goering proved incompetent, recalled trying to persuade Hitler, to no avail, to do it.

Look: I'm a man, and I'm no metrosexual either. I have a Western cultural background (an accident of personal history) and education, and I treat women as one of your enlightened compatriots would. Nevertheless I am a man of my country, and believe me, in my country a man has to prove his 'manhood' or resign himself to a life of failure and constant opprobrium. I am not a failure; I have done my proving. But I abhor that kind of manhood, which is about nothing but force and bullying and oppression of women; and frankly, I abhor the line this thread has taken. It gives aid and comfort to those who would return us to the days of wifebeating, rape as 'seduction' and the reduction of women to chattel slaves. I am not accusing you of going so far yourself, but believe me, that is where this line of talk ultimately leads.

When all the women of the world are liberated, perhaps we can return to this subject. There is much to be done before we reach that state, and arguments like yours only perpetuate the ancient, bullying stereotypes and make the work harder. It is hard enough as it is.

[edit on 7-5-2008 by Astyanax]

Originally posted by Shazam The Unbowed
The Conspiracy against Manhood is real, but are you paying attention? Or are you too busy digging a fallout shelter for when the NWO comes after you to recognise the real threat?

The war in Iraq was created by a male dominated structure. Just because the duke is dead, does not mean that the size of balls have shrunk. Perhaps men have realised the futility of the rule of thumb, or the harms of hit first and ask questions later.

There is no conspiracy against man, if anything it is a social progression for the good in my opinion. I feel these wars as of late are due to the inbalance of male and female roles in our society. An over abundance of warrior types being in control.

Originally posted by Astyanax

In fact, O Erect One, they come from an understanding of sexual selection, as described by Darwin in his 'other' book, The Descent of Man, and in particular the concept of

Really?
so this was a quote from Darwin was it?

their brainless agression, their violent status contests, their mammoth-killing skills no longer win the day.

Or this?

his aggression and instinctive irresponsibillity have made him a liability.

Nice try indoctrinated one.

So asty, are you a self hating misandrist or just a deluded female one?

Originally posted by Conspiriology
You jumped to this conclusion I am some brainwashed victim of the feminist movement merely because I didn't agree with calling mylie Cyrus a whore.

Wrong. I reached that conclusion becuase you posted standard feminist propaganda BS blaming men for all of womens problems.

What follows are woman coming up seeing thats the kind of way they got to act and guys come up acting like they are second class T&A.
I see it in the music videos and I think guys that act that way are losers and the woman they got acting like that are doing it to get OUR approval.

See what I mean?
So let me get this straight, if a woman chooses to act like that because she beleives it will get "our" approval, its our fault?
No darwin, thats the kind of feminist propagnda I am talking about.
People are responsible for thier own actions, and if a woman chooses to degrade herself because she thinks it will "make men like her" its her fault for being stupid enough to believe that, and having so little self respect she acts on it. It is not however "mens fault"
This is what I am trying to wake you up too darwin. One of the first signs of feminist indoctrination is when we see people blaming "men" for the choices women make and the consequences of those choices. Now some people are only slightly indoctirnatedand some, last asty there are so far gone they will be the first to put thier balls on the chopping block while saluting and saying "heil frau"
But its a matter of degree not a matter of kind.
For example, we are often told that women "endure pain" in order to attract a man, but lets be honest Men dont really care what shoes a woman wears as most of us never notice. We dont really notice the purses they wear or what makeup they have on. Women on the other hand do. See women dont dress up for men Darwin, they dress up to make other women jealous. Likewise we are told that "women dont earn as much as men" when in truth the mythical wage gap is actually a choice gap. Yet people still repeat these claims. Why? because they dont know any better, they have been indoctrinated. Its only when you began examinig these theories critically that you begin to understand how illogical they are. But unless someone wakes us up to the fact that we need to examine these theories, no one will.

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed

In order to castrate a man, you have to have him unconscious. Teevee is a castrating unconsciousness, what they want you to think, real men get things done without worrying too much about manners. Yes, what we're missing -- clear purpose, direction and action.

Women and newscasters jawbone things to death. But if we really want things to change, we have to stop listening to excuses and just get out of their way. Go hide until the paranoid agents self-destruct. Where to go hide? In utter conformity and anonymity but with survival options -- not like the celebrities who will sell you options at their price.

We've gotta find our own options, network our own networks, rely on our own friends, learn how to live in a hole the way the Vietnamese did thirty years ago to take care of others and not just ourselves. Only 'conservatives' just take care of themselves.

www.hack1966.com...

Originally posted by eye open doors


The war in Iraq was created by a male dominated structure. Just because the duke is dead, does not mean that the size of balls have shrunk. Perhaps men have realised the futility of the rule of thumb, or the harms of hit first and ask questions later.

Case in point people. This fem-prop 101.
Step 1 - blame anything you dont like on the fact that men run the world.
This is a particularly popular bit of fem-prop, because its so easy to implement. All you have to do is think of something you dont like that our government has done, and since most of our elected officials are men, Men are the problem.
Now beyond the fact that it views men as a single monolithic group without individual ideas or opinions, this type of fem-prop enages in the stadard bigoted fallacy of assuming ones traits (whether they be sexual or racial or whatever) determine ones destiny. Now I know some of you, due to thelevel of indoctirnation in our society may not be able to see my point in this example, simply becasue of unconsious bias, in these situations it helps to switch the trait descritors to one of the PC protected ones thusly

The genocide in rwanda was created by a black dominated power structure. Just because the duke is dead doesnt mean his skin is any whiter. Perhpas blacks have realised the futillity of machetes, or the harms of hit first, ask questions later.


Im sure many of you looked at the above comment and thought "that sounds pretty racist" yet did you have the same reaction to eye open doors comments? Id be willing to bet at least half of those who found the "black" statement racist didnt find the "men" comment sexist.
That is indoctrination in action. We are less likely to recognise misandry because we have been indoctrinated to beleive it doesnt exist.

There is no conspiracy against man, if anything it is a social progression for the good in my opinion. I feel these wars as of late are due to the inbalance of male and female roles in our society. An over abundance of warrior types being in control.

So lets use the "substitution principle" again shall we?

I feel these criems as of late are due to the inbalance of blacks and whites roles in our society. An over abundance of balcks being in alive.

Again, once we substitute the PC approved target for a non PC approved target, the bigotry becomes immediately clear.

reply to post by whitewave


I also read that book , only one point I can add. I believe those virtues should be pursued by both sexes. It would contribute to solving the whole problem of the competition between us as male and female.

Zindo

Quoting one of the Rockefellers, "We … created the women’s movement, and we promote it. And it’s not about equal opportunity. It’s designed to get both parents out of the home and into the workforce, where they will pay taxes. And then we can decide how the children will be raised and educated."

Thats really all it is.

Men in high positions of power screwing "lower" men and their families for their own benefit.

Strong, independent, men and their families are the biggest threat to the elite trying to take over.

Originally posted by Astyanax

I abhor the line this thread has taken. It gives aid and comfort to those who would return us to the days of wifebeating, rape as 'seduction' and the reduction of women to chattel slaves.

It does no such thing. Thats as foolish as saying we shouldn't talk about black victimisation of whites in south africa in the last 20 years because blacks are still being killed in Darfur. Its a false choice.
I dont know what things are like in the country you come from, and I dont condone the types of attitudes you describe. But the fact that there is legtimiate persecution and opression of women there is irrelevant to the fact that Men are being demonised here.
My point is that neither is acceptable, but since Im an American who lives in america, and the issues I speak effect me directly I choose to address the problems withihn my own nation first.

Look Im not saying that women arent oppressed in this world. Go to any muslim country and womens lives are hell. But here In the US? In Canada? In Britain? No sir. Women are not being opressed, discriminated against, or dehumanised. In America it is Men who now get the short end of the stick, while getting beaten by the long end.

When all the women of the world are liberated, perhaps we can return to this subject. There is much to be done before we reach that state, and arguments like yours only perpetuate the ancient, bullying stereotypes and make the work harder. It is hard enough as it is.

Think about what you are saying here. Because women there are being oppressed there its OK to opress men here?
I prefer to beleive that any increase in freedom is a good thing. I cant control, or influence what goes on in your home country, the best I can do is try to improve my own. Whether all women everywhere are liberated or not, Im not going to ignore problems in my own backyard becasue someone else is doing something bad to somebody.

Lets use the "substitution principle" on your statement.
"when all the hungry in the world are fed, then we can deal with obesity, but there is much to be done before then and discussions like this only make children hungrier"

Or maybe
"when all the aids victims are cured then we can deal with cancer, untill then discussions like yours only tend to perpetuate the aids virus."

Use your intellect to examine your own statements my friend. Bigtotry over there does NOT excuse bigotry over here.








[edit on 5/7/2008 by Shazam The Unbowed]

reply to post by sarcastic


Look I agree that TV is not a positive influence, which is why I watch so little. But I really dont know what your were trying to say with the rest of your post. Could you elaborate?

reply to post by whitewave


reply to post by ZindoDoone



Yes. That is what I mean by Manhood. And that is what we are in danger of losing, due to the misandrist tendencies in our culture.

Case in point people. This fem-prop 101.
Step 1 - blame anything you dont like on the fact that men run the world.
This is a particularly popular bit of fem-prop, because its so easy to implement.

You do realise that the nazis created the polish joke, the yellow star of david system, as well as the number tattoos to dehumanize their victims. In my opinion, you sir have placed me in a dehumanizing classification that behooves your agenda.

All you have to do is think of something you dont like that our government has done, and since most of our elected officials are men, Men are the problem.

It's that simple huh?

Now beyond the fact that it views men as a single monolithic group without individual ideas or opinions, this type of fem-prop enages in the stadard bigoted fallacy of assuming ones traits (whether they be sexual or racial or whatever) determine ones destiny.

Who is doing the assuming here?

Now I know some of you, due to thelevel of indoctirnation in our society may not be able to see my point in this example, simply becasue of unconsious bias, in these situations it helps to switch the trait descritors to one of the PC protected ones thusly

Are you so sure of yourself because you would like others to believe in your authority?

Im sure many of you looked at the above comment and thought "that sounds pretty racist" yet did you have the same reaction to eye open doors comments? Id be willing to bet at least half of those who found the "black" statement racist didnt find the "men" comment sexist.
That is indoctrination in action.

I am a man, an certainly not a feminist. Infact, I believe if there is a conspiracy. it is a conspiracy to keep men at a lower consciousness level. The reptile mind. There shouldn't have to be a power struggle. the relationship between the sexes would best serve society if it was viewed as a business partnership, or a team effort.

Mysogany has been fueled by thousands of years of fundamentalist religious conditioning. This is unatural, and harmful to society.

We are less likely to recognise misandry because we have been indoctrinated to beleive it doesnt exist.

Do you have a turd in your pocket? I have noticed you like to include others in your claims. When you point the finger, it is best to recognise that you have three more pointing back at you. I am open to this.

Originally posted by eye open doors


You do realise that the nazis created the polish joke, the yellow star of david system, as well as the number tattoos to dehumanize their victims. In my opinion, you sir have placed me in a dehumanizing classification that behooves your agenda.

Nahh I dont think you'e a Nazi. I see you more as a Lord haw Haw, just a deluded fool who repeats it.

Who is doing the assuming here?

No one. Im simply reading what you wrote, and thinking about it. Revolutionary concept I know.

Are you so sure of yourself because you would like others to believe in your authority?

Authority?
Im a guy with a comic book avatar on a conspiracy website where the idea of shapeshifting reptilians aliens who intemarried with royal families is given credence. And this makes you think Authority?
Brother Im just telling what I see.

I am a man, an certainly not a feminist.

Yet you carry thier water. Me I like to drink thier Milkshake.

Infact, I believe if there is a conspiracy. it is a conspiracy to keep men at a lower consciousness level. The reptile mind. There shouldn't have to be a power struggle. the relationship between the sexes would best serve society if it was viewed as a business partnership, or a team effort.

Higher consciousness? What like every body 420?
We dont view each other as "teammates" because Feminist propaganda has poisoned our collective unconscious.

Do you have a turd in your pocket? I have noticed you like to include others in your claims. When you point the finger, it is best to recognise that you have three more pointing back at you. I am open to this.

Cliche's aren't wisdom, in fact they inhibit wisdom.
This is the society we live in, I just seem to be the only one willing to look at it.

It is clear to me that you are closed off to any other view. Also, you bring up cliches. Your stance is a very old cliche. I know now that there is nothing to be learned from this post other than more of your insecurities.

I dedicate this image to you




May other recognise the futility of debating with you.

Originally posted by eye open doors
It is clear to me that you are closed off to any other view. Also, you bring up cliches. Your stance is a very old cliche. I know now that there is nothing to be learned from this post other than more of your insecurities.

Im closed off to any other view?
Of course. You KNOW theres nothing to be learned here, yet I'm "closed off"

reply to post by eye open doors

May other recognise the futility of debating with you.

Recognized.

I thought we had a conversationalist. In fact we have an enthusiast.

>Exits thread, shuddering. Ugh.<



[edit on 7-5-2008 by Astyanax]

Originally posted by Shazam The Unbowed

Originally posted by eye open doors
It is clear to me that you are closed off to any other view. Also, you bring up cliches. Your stance is a very old cliche. I know now that there is nothing to be learned from this post other than more of your insecurities.

Im closed off to any other view?
Of course. You KNOW theres nothing to be learned here, yet I'm "closed off"

Shazam The Unbowed, i think you have brought up many interesting points and views and most of them i agree on.
I think you presented your information in quite a diplomatic and non offensive way most of the time and like to compliment you on your thread.
I have been reading every ones input with great interest.

Be carefull not to fall for the personal, yes it is, no it isnt, trap.
I think you have been adressing most of the real questions here in a very decent way.

Keep up the good work, Peace and Respect.