The Conspiracy against Manhood.

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed



Eh. No worries about the other thread

I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying. But I think many men have to be careful of going to the extreme opposite side, where they posses no emotions or romantic notions....and can only form the words 'yes dear' with one hand down their pants and the other on the remote.

I dont mind a soft man when he is alone with me. (errrr)

But love a man who can be a man when he is "with the guys"



[edit on 6-5-2008 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by christiansoldier
"A friend of mine (Ukrainian) was bringing his wife back from the Ukraine to Britain. The customs officer in the Ukraine looked at her then back to him and said: "Why are you bringing that back? Don't you want a younger model?" My friend replied he'd known her for 10 or 15 years. After consideration, the customs officer said to him: "Remember to give her a smack every once in while to let her know who's boss." The point is that English speaking nations are the ones suffering with women. The rest of the world is more fortunate. They understand that women are emotional, territorial creatures and should be treated as such."

***
What are you saying here? That women should be smacked around? That you think the older women should be "traded in" for a younger model? This is what it means to you to be a man? If that's true, you can keep your definition. All we women want is to be treated equally. We don't want to be ridiculed when we express an opinion. We would just like to be respected. And we want the same rights and freedoms as men do. I don't think that's too much to ask for.

I think you totally misunderstood what I was saying. Read my signature, it explains a lot about me.

I do not advocate smacking women around. In fact, I don't advocate smacking anyone around unless it's appropriate. Many women feel it is acceptable for them to be violent toward men. How many men retaliate when hit by a woman? Should a man retaliate? Were a woman to hit me I'd laugh (laughter is an outlet for aggression); were a woman to hit me several times, I'd restrain her; were a woman to kick me in my b*lls then I would definitely floor her; likewise with any man regardless of size, I would treat equally as aforementioned. Wouldn't you were you a man?

As for trading in a woman for a younger model, did you actually read what I'd written? The customs officer asked my friend whether he wanted a younger model. Notice that my friend declined and brought her back despite the option.

I think equality is a great thing. In context. Equal rights; equal access to the means of advancement; equal attitude toward deserved treatment. Equality is a great thing but remember - all people are different and not one of us has the same set of abilities and level of potential as anyone else and attitude toward equality should take that into account. No person or group of persons should limit another person or group as a means of forcibly making people equal because that just creates contempt and, worse, unfulfilled potential.

I think a problem with many people seeking equality (men, half-men and women) is that many just can't see that equality exists or they just don't know how to claim/hold their rights.

BTW, I do hold your reaction seriously and respect your opinion.

Originally posted by Astyanax
So there's a conspiracy against men?

Who are the conspirators?

Women?

Or are men conspiring against themselves?

The fact is that the human race is evolving, adapting to the altered conditions in its mostly self-created environment. Great brawling slabs of beef and butter, oozing beer and testosterone at every pore, no longer enjoy the selective advantage they once did. In modern technological society (that's the environment we live in), their brainless aggression, their violent status contests, their mammoth-killing skills no longer win the day.

Whether you know it or not, you are what stalin once called "a useful idiot". I dont mean that as an insult, (I know that sounds strange but stay with me) and Im not using the standard defitnition of those words; instead I am using them only in the context that Stalin used them. Those words were used to describe communists in america, who through no direct influence of the soviet government, were aitating for a communist revolution in america based on communist ideology.
In the same way those useful idiots (many of whom were reknowned scholars) were unknowingly spreading soviet propaganda, what I quoted was a picture perfect example of feminist propaganda. You may not even be aware of how misndrist, and sorry to say ignorant, those comments are, precisely becasue the indoctrination has penetrated so deeply.
As to who the conspirators are, I am of the belief it is, like all successful conspiracies, comprosed of a very small core group which has managed to gain ideological control of a much larger, much more influential group. Namely, lawyers and politicians.
I ams till doing research but early indiications seem to show a direct line form the Margaret sanger, down to the 60's radical feminists, to the creation of "women's studies" programs at elite universities, whiche lead to the infiltration of legal, and political science, and education departments at those same universities. This all happens ery quickly by the way, and by 1975 at the latest, all the major elite schools,have been almost fully penetrated.
Fromt hat point on, the war mecht was self sustaining. The lawyers and politicians got the "new religion" recognised as law, either by ballot or gavel; and the teachers ensured the orthodxy was enforced in the schools. And just like that, in less than a decade, a few hard core extremists took over the entire nation without anyone noticing.

They no longer cut quite the same dash with the ladies, either. This sort of man is being selected out because, far from being an asset to his genes, his aggression and instinctive irresponsibility have made him a liability. His vestigial usefulness as manual labour, which has allowed him and his fellows to survive as an underclass for the last two hundred years or so, is now at an end. He has served us well, but his work is done.

Nothing could be futher from the truth. In fact study after study has shown that the 'alpha type" is still the most successful at mating. Women want a man who is a Man.

The very recent liberation of women -- a direct result of mechanization and universal education -- is as significant a step in the evolution of humanity than any that has been taken since the Upper Pleistocene. One of its consequences will be to eliminate Muscle Man. In the centuries and millennia to come, few will mourn his departure.

Or perhaps you aren't just a "useful idiot", perhaps you know exactly what you are doing.

There's no conspiracy, just a lot of evolutionarily obsolete chaps going not quietly into that good night.

Its clear you understand neither the nature of Man, nor evolution.

[edit on 5/6/2008 by Shazam The Unbowed]

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Well, I suppose a woman should respond to this....a woman who loves MAN. LOL

As a woman, of 30+ years, I know what I love in a man. This comes from experience with different men. I absolutely believe there are differences between man and woman and on many levels they are not equal. I embrace that.

I know that I love a man who is a real man. No sissy allowed...(since the *P* word is not allowed)...here.

However, a man can still smell good

and still have a soft side and show real emotions. He can still cry when the situation calls for it. He can still get down on the level of kids and play with them as if a he is a kid…and that includes playing with little girls when they want to have a tea party

He can still cook me dinners complete with candlelight and dress nice when the event calls for it. He can tag along with me at the mall on one of many endless shopping trips...and tell me what he likes to see me in

He can still endure some chic flic with me and hold my hand while doing so. He can still be silly one moment and very romantic the next. He can still admit his faults and admit when he is sick – for we like to take care of you

He can still proudly stand in Victoria’s Secret after picking something out for me – all on his own. He can know my favorite things so he can shop for me all on his own. He can still bring me flowers for absolutely no reason....but just because.

And the list goes on and on and on…..


But at the same time.....he should not be afraid to stand by me and protect me from all. He should still be able to sit around with the guys and have a beer and say and do the silly stuff guys do.

He should not be afraid to get dirty. He should be able to stand up for what he believes in, even if he has to spew a few choice words. He should like and embrace guy things: sports, guns, guy movies, cars, etc. He should have a strong sense of desire and need to support his family and let me stay home if I want but also let me work if I want.

And again….the list goes on and on and on…..

I know there are still real men out there. Are they a dying breed? Perhaps.
And are the feminist ridiculous? YES! As a female, I can say that!


[edit on 6-5-2008 by greeneyedleo]

I have quoted this entirely to show the point. And after all that you expect in this "real man", greeneyedleo, exactly what do YOU have to offer? Anything except what's between your legs or on your chest? That includes all you other women out there.

Here's how feminized our society has become. Do you notice that in all her ramblings about what a "real man" does, she doesn't once talk about true, inate qualities, merely what makes HER feel good? Do you notice she doesn't talk about his honor, his integrity, his ability to take care of a family or actually lead?

Here's a thought for you there greeneyedleo. TED BUNDY used to do all of those things, and do it well. He was a real charmer.

My point in all this is that women in america have gone, quite literally, insane. They are known the world over as the worst wives, and yet American men are known as the best husbands.

Here's the thing: "real men" (whatever that is, as each man defines that on his own) have one thing in common. They do not let women dictate to them what "real men" actually are.

When a woman starts talking about "real men", what they mean is a man who makes their panties wet. He could be an axe-wielding, nun-raping, child killer, yet if he makes a woman's heart flutter, he's still a "real man".

Yes, we are in a time of feminizing men (spelling intentional). Because women would rather endure injustice, than seek to correct it. Because women are MUCH more likely to do whatever it takes to live, rather than die fighting for what they believe in, or the cause of right.

Welcome to the jungle, younger guys. Where the tigers have mittens covering their claws, and wear pink bows on their necks.



[edit on 6-5-2008 by sir_chancealot]

[edit on 6-5-2008 by sir_chancealot]

I said my list could go on and on. Geeeze!!! If I kept on writing, I might as well right a book!!!!

Good Lord!!!

You have no clue about me, thanks for your bitter response though

[edit on 6-5-2008 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by Shazam The Unbowed
Heres where I see the problem. Both men and women have now been indoctrinated to believe that any man who does want to protect you, or any other woman, is actually trying to "possess"you.
Its the belief, now made into law, that any man who does spend time with guys drinking beer is negleting you and your needs.
Its the perception that any man who likes to get dirty is a pig, a redneck, or a bum.
Its the idea that if he is into cars, its because "he compensating"; if he is into guy movies its because hes lowborw and hyperviolent; if he does want to let you stay home, or god forbid has his own point of view on whether or not you should, or even worse tries to convince you one way or the other, then hes obviously a woman hating caveman who wants to keep you barefoot, pregnant, and illiterate in the kithcen.

Shazam you are the new deity of men's rights. I'm sure many will prey to you after they've visited the so suave oracle (whose name shall remain nameless for the sake of the indoctrinated).

I agree with every comment you have written above. I said it above and I'll say it again, the word is "attitude" - all women use it to describe men whom stand up for themselves especially in the face of a manipulative and/or bullying woman. How many times have you been told you have a "bad attitude"? And, how many times has it been said by a woman you were arguing with? How many times has it made you re-consider yourself?

reply to post by Rapacity


Hi Rapacity: My apologies for reading you wrong. I wasn't quite sure what you were advocating in your post (which is why I asked in question form). The reason I misunderstood is because you seemed to be supporting the guy that asked you the questions.
Thank you for your courtesy, I really appreciate that. And thank you for taking my remarks seriously.

Originally posted by ianr5741
I'm a man. I make no apologies. I like my burgers,
my beer. I'm rough in bed. I like the wide open range
when I shoot my guns.

I also read. I am an artist. I discuss topics
of global importance. Greater mental challenges
make life more interesting.
But I never forget who I am.

Against the feminine sex I am counterpart,
and complementary.

I fight for the means of survival. I am the tool of life
to ensure that life continues. I consider
the work of my hands an act of responsibility.
I see the way things "ought to be", but deal with things
the way that they are.

I am ugly, crass, and harsh when it serves the purpose
of providing and protection. In more civilized times,
I am an intellectual. I am both impulsive and patient.

I have wept for the state of humanity. I am a soldier
rising to the fore. I will die to make this a better world.

I am man. Man is me.



[edit on 6-5-2008 by ianr5741]

Beautifully said! This thread is really interesting I think if we had a couple of extreme feminists then it would be way more interesting clash of the titans status.

What i think most interesting is that many people are basically arguing what i had said before ,that men and woman need to recognize each others differences and thrive off of those differences. Woman should not strive for the masculinity that they have no right to but we give them control in the relationships they are the final word in parenting (granted parenting children SHOULD be an agreement on both ends). Men should not be the ninnys that we've turned into...we need to be in control its our nature.

It isnt simply a life style change it is change the primitive nature within all of us. the nature we are all born with. that is something we have no right to change and i think its absolutely disgusting that thats the way our society is leaning, changing the most basic human instincts for woman to nurture for men to protect and provide.

Dont get me wrong either realizing each others differences still does not mean its okay for violence on any side.

Originally posted by christiansoldier

And women STILL don't make equal pay in many places of employment. The facts and statistics bear that out. Here's an article from Business Week from 2004:

Sorry, but Im not going to allow you to come into my thread and spread disinformation.
Whether you know it or not, your statistic are, to be charitible, as credible as uri geller.

First of all those figures only appear when you compare all men with all women. This is not a valid comparison. Why not?


1) a woman at any age, is less likely to have as much work experience as a man of the same age. Women take leave from work to care for family members at several times the rate men do, which means they dont have the same seniority, experinece, or or track record. It also means that any man of the same age will most likely gain promotions on her as he is elgible to be promoted and she, being on leave is not. Furthermore women are more likely to work part time than men are. In addintion, the numbers are skewed by the number of women who choose to be stay at home moms. Its on the rise BTW. As an example, in any random grouping of 35 year old men and women, the men will on average,have Ten Years more work experience than the women. However when you normalise the groups, meaning look at only men and women with the same amount of work experince at that age, the wage gap is less than 2 cents an hour, which was also BTW within the margin of error for that particular study.

The United States Census shows that the number of children being cared for by stay-at-home moms has increased nearly 13% in less than a decade, while at the same time, the percentage of new mothers who go back to work fell from 59% in 1998 to 55% in 2000.

Harvard Business School - In a survey of women from the classes of 1981, 1985 and 1991 it was found that only 38% were working full time.

In surveys of professional women across the board - Between one quarter and one third are out of the work-force, depending on the study and the profession.

Working mothers between the career-building ages of 25 to 44 - Two thirds of them work fewer than 40 hours per week (i.e., part time). Only 5% work 50 or more hours weekly.

Compare these trends with those of men. 95% of white men with M.B.A.'s are working full time, while only 67% of women with M.B.A.'s are working full time.

Fortune magazine found that of the 108 women who have appeared on its list of the top 50 most powerful women over the years, at least 20 have chosen to leave their high-powered jobs, most voluntarily, for lives that are less intense and more fulfilling.

2) Women are several times less likely to negotiate thier intial salary, to negotiate for raises, or for better raises.
Why is this important?
Lets take two example harry and sally
Harry and sally both have the same experience, education and skills. Both make 50,000 a year.
lets assume that Sally takes the standard raises offered which are 3% per year. At the end of 20 years shes is now making $90,305.56 per year.
Now lets assume that Harry decides each year to push for more and lets further assume he only gets 2% more per year than sally, mainly becasue he asks for it. At the end of 20 years harry is making $132,664.89

3) When the wage gap is controlled for factors such as years worked, experinece, skills, etc; There is no wage gap.

June O‘Neill, former director of the Congressional Budget Office, found that among people ages 27 to 33 who havenever had a child, women‘s earnings approach 98 percent of men‘s.

Facts provided by the May issue of American Economic Review (2003), Women's Figures, by Furchtgott-Roth and Stolba (1999), The Women in the Economy project, an initiative of the National Center for Policy
Analysis, also see here
here here

Last month, there was a bill that was for guaranteeing that women made as much as men, for the same work. It didn't pass.

Thats because it passed back in 1963

Just because some men think there's a conspiracy against them, doesn't mean they have to bash women, which is where these types of threads ALWAYS end up.

I have yet to see any women bashing. I have seen somone come in here and spread feminist disinfo though. I will give you the benefit of the doubt though and assume, unless you prove otherwise, that you just dont know better.

[edit on 5/6/2008 by Shazam The Unbowed]

[edit on 5/6/2008 by Shazam The Unbowed]

reply to post by Rapacity


Thanks.
I do appreciate it.

reply to post by christiansoldier


No worries. We all mis-read things at times. I've done it more than once face-to-face, voice-to-voice and of written text.

Different cultures view things differently. Most English (as a first language) speaking cultures tend to have ill defined male and female roles. The confusion in the text I wrote probably stems from my showing an understanding of the questioner's stance - remember who's boss and point it out on a regular basis. His stated method may have been wrong but his point is only half-so....

...This might upset but I will not apologize for it - from my point of view based on my experiences and observations, and if you're young you wont agree with me but when older you might, most women are much more emotional than men (no genius required here). Many women, when highly emotional, demonstrate childish temper tantrums and develop an emotional blockage to reasoned communication. The best way to treat the emotional behavior is from a parental, fatherly stance. This is what the customs officer meant - make sure she knows that you're the Daddy (in the fatherly sense).

I wont take offense if you retract your apology, Christiansoldier.

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed

This is why I say that Feminism is the most powerful, pernicious, and secret conspiracy of all. We aren't even aware of how deeply its twisted precepts have subverted our mental process and in fact our entire society.

Huh?
Since when is "feminine" a bad thing?

Pernicious: Main Entry: per·ni·cious
Function: adjective
Pronunciation: p&r-'ni-sh&s
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French pernicieus, from Latin perniciosus, from pernicies destruction, from per- + nec-, nex violent death -- more at NOXIOUS
1 : highly injurious or destructive : DEADLY
2 archaic : WICKED
synonyms PERNICIOUS , BANEFUL , NOXIOUS , DELETERIOUS , DETRIMENTAL mean exceedingly harmful. PERNICIOUS implies irreparable harm done through evil or insidious corrupting or undermining.

Since you referred to it as "pernicious", maybe?

So the feminist overlords are controlling everything, including all men?

Originally posted by kattraxx



Since you referred to it as "pernicious", maybe?

I never said feminine was pernicious, I said feminism is. Or do you not understand the difference between an attribute and an ideology?

If some of you men blame women for your present stance, consider this: what is YOUR part in this? After all, you have ALLOWED women to intimidate you, according to what most of you have posted on this thread. Doesn't say much for you, does it?

Originally posted by christiansoldier
If some of you men blame women for your present stance, consider this: what is YOUR part in this? After all, you have ALLOWED women to intimidate you, according to what most of you have posted on this thread. Doesn't say much for you, does it?

As the twig is bent, so grows the tree. If that twig is bent, who is responsible, the tree, or the twig bender?

Originally posted by jpm1602
I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess.
Keeping my stick on the ice all this time has led to some puck issues.

I'm pulling for you. Were all in this together.

Originally posted by christiansoldier
And yet we live in a misogynist society/world. How is this possible?

Isn't that what you would expect in a world where men are being dispossessed?

reply to post by greeneyedleo


gel, you're the (wo)man! All that most guy's want is for their gal to just tell them what they want, but for some reason, most women want men to figure it out for themselves. Of course it's not so hard to figure out if you've half a brain, but then we are men after all. THX for the clue for the clueless.

I read a book years ago called "Maximized Manhood" that made me just want to stand up and cheer. It described "manly" as "possessing virtues." The manly virtues being courage, honor, righteousness, fortitude, etc. I applaud that concept of manhood.

It made no mention of swaggering belicose braggadacios that drink swill, put the little woman in her place, fritter away the family finances on mistresses, etc. I despise that concept of manhood.

As I have stated in other threads that touch on this topic, "women are equal in life, not in function." We are no less worthy because of our different functions-just different. Viva la difference'.

There was another poster here that mentioned that a "real man" doesn't let a woman (or another man) define what it means for him to be a real man. Well said and, may I counter, that a "real woman" doesn't either.

Any boy with a pea-shooter can catch rabbits but it takes a mighty hunter to take down a big cat. Some of us big cats are totally unimpressed with the boys out there weilding their pea-shooters.

A woman should have something to offer other than T&A and it should be worthy of and highly valued by the one with honor, courage, fortitude, etc.
I know I won't settle for anything less.

I'd like to think that respect and mutuality could overcome the gender war. Time will tell. In the mean time, the casualties on both sides are piling up.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Hey I agree with your point and starred you up for it. Family responsiblities and roles have undergone dramatic shifts. It has long range implications that lead to the downfall of society even. It parallels what happened to Rome as I discuss in the thread The Decline of America I find your testosterone information interesting because in my decline thread I posted a link where women are less fertile as well.

Yeah no wonder the guy thought I had chains around my neck, he really IS worried the feminists are emasculating men. I got some disturbance from this thread starter in another thread where I was wondering why males talk about woman like they are trash and he starts going all over me as if I was Phil Donahue and Alan Alda all wrapped into one.

No I don't think woman are extremist feminist unless he can define extremism I can only assume she is very very feminine.

Their are laws that one can assume are un-fair to males and I believe the study about boys also the decrease in testosterone levels because of plastic. That is a Fact. Not only that but after you wash plastic in a dishwasher it releases even MORE of the chemical that causes it. This has been seen and observed in our oceans also where there are underwater graveyards of discarded plastics as large as the state of mass and has had a dramatic affect on male species of marine life.

As for any conspiracy theory, I think he listens to Tom Lycos too much

- Con

Originally posted by Shazam The Unbowed

Whether you know it or not, you are what stalin once called "a useful idiot". I dont mean that as an insult, (I know that sounds strange but stay with me) and Im not using the standard defitnition of those words; instead I am using them only in the context that Stalin used them. Those words were used to describe communists in america, who through no direct influence of the soviet government, were aitating for a communist revolution in america based on communist ideology.

Wow,, quoting stalin in calling astyanax an atheist evolutionist who like many of his camp, can't wait for the NWO to take place. Now THIS is getting interesting.

- Con

Originally posted by Shazam The Unbowed


As the twig is bent, so grows the tree. If that twig is bent, who is responsible, the tree, or the twig bender?

Responsible for what? Just what point are you trying to make

- Con