The Conspiracy against Manhood.

reply to post by Cthulwho

Absolutely. Christina Hoff Summers wrote a great book about it, "The war against Boys".
Education is a really perverted area too. The educational universities and programs were some of the first ones subverted after the intial "womens studies" and other "studies" programs made the intial beachhead. Then they went after the law schools live ravenous piranha. Entire generations of lawyers were indoctrinated an slowly, like a frog in a pot, things became more and more unbalanced in the name of equality.

Now think about this, one of the early feminist facotries was Wellesley College, and the heart of Wellesley feminism was the poly-sci division.

But thats no concern, no one of any notice wen't there.

I'm a man. I find it abhorrent to my sole to see men both on and off TV walking, talking and generally acting as indecisive wimps afraid to stand-up for themselves for fear of upsetting others and for fear of being prosecuted for having an "attitude." Attitude, btw women, is a word that I've most often heard used by women to describe men whom will not allow women to manipulate and bully them.

I agree with the many comments posted in this thread which state that men and the characteristics that are considered manly have been socially and legally criminalized. This criminalization is constantly reinforced by the media, judiciary, society and education system.

Don't misunderstand me, I like the fact that as a man I am now allowed to wear sun creams, deodorants and basically pamper myself without having to go to a pub to unwind. I think the changes in our society that have tended toward equality in treatment and rights among the sexes have been beneficial for both men and women. However, I think the whole concept of equality in treatment and rights has been hijacked to the point that the concept is being used to subjugate and bully men into a less than human status - we are becoming pets and jesters.

Why can women have women only nights but men not? Why is it possible for women to have women only social groups but men can not (in England, laws and regulations govern this)?

Why has the idea of fatherhood been turned into that of being an effeminate nanny? Why can't we teach our male children to be men?

Why are women allowed to have relationships with men with the sole purpose of fleecing men of their wealth? Why are women allowed to use men as a form of social security benefit yet men are prosecuted as fraudsters for the same?

Why do women (as a social group) think it acceptable to have close male friends yet they do not tolerate men having either close or distant female friends nor good male friends?

Do women not see the double standard here? It's acceptable for women to be women but not for men to be men. Brothers, be wary of that word attitude because women use it as a means of causing men to re-consider their actions toward less manly forms.

(Tongue-in-Cheek here) We men can blame women for many of our Earth's current environmental, political, social, educational and vocational problems. If women hadn't fought and gained their rights (and let's not forget that we kindly gave you those rights) then there would be fewer gas-guzzling cars creating pollution, politicians would be voted-in based on their worth not their looks, our kids would be looked after at home so they wouldn't be running about stealing and killing, our male children would benefit by smaller school classes hence more money would be spent on each child, and our wives/girlfriends wouldn't have to worry about Ms Co-Worker because Ms would be Mr Co-Worker. Life would be much simpler. Why, oh why, did women have to over complicate everything???

A friend of mine (Ukrainian) was bringing his wife back from the Ukraine to Britain. The customs officer in the Ukraine looked at her then back to him and said: "Why are you bring that back? Don't you want a younger model?" My friend replied he'd known her for 10 or 15 years. After consideration, the customs officer said to him: "Remember to give her a smack every once in while to let her know who's boss." The point is that English speaking nations are the ones suffering with women. The rest of the world is more fortunate. They understand that women are emotional, territorial creatures and should be treated as such. Sorry to break your bubbles girls but...men and women can live together provided both men and women accept their differences, realize their roles and give a little leeway every once in a while. We must stop bossing each other about and stop trying to define each others' roles. Men know how to be men; women know how to be women; and never should one try to tell the other...

Originally posted by Shazam The Unbowed

During the same time period the feminist extremists have completly infiltrated our domestic and family laws and institutions.......


................
Yet the feminist overlords still complian that "women aren't treated fairly"
really? Have you ever investigated such claims?......................

I agree there may be a conspiracy against "men". The information about the testerone levels being lowered by chemicals in our products is very scary..for that you get a star from me.

However, I find it hard to take anything seriously when you make comments about the " Feminist overlords"

Who may I ask are the feminine overlords?

Women in business - No feminine overlords here...

Maybe in government?
Women in the senate

Erm..no, no evil masterminds there either..

The "elite" are men. The CEOs are men, the presidents are men, the prime ministers are men....

I think the feminization of men...( is it so bad that hubby helps with dishes now...?) is a result of our changing lifestyles. As much as I may like my brute to pick me up over his shoulder and protect me from evil intentions the truth is he is needed to help wash the dishes, take care of the children and plan the dinner party because I'm at work.

Why does "feminine" has this negative connotation?

[edit on 6-5-2008 by Merigold]

Woman fetch me some ale!
Woman shine my armor!
Woman get thee in the bed!

Oh, wait a minute. Thats right.

I gotta go to sleep some time.

Never mind.

Originally posted by Merigold
I agree there may be a conspiracy against "men". The informaiton about the testerone levels are being lowered by chemicals in our products is very enlightneing..for that you get a star from me.

However, I find it hard to take anything seriously when you make comments about the " Feminist overlords"

Who may I ask are the feminine overlords?
The "elite" are men. The CEOs are men, the presidents are men, the prime ministers are men....

Which makes it all the more Ironic that they we are the ones passing the very legislation dooming us to extinction isn't it?

Tell me, did Marx have to take over russia for his ideological children to destroy it? Did he personally have to take over Romania to conquer it?
No, in fact he was dead by the time it happened. Yet without Marx, would there have been a Bolsheivek uprising and would Stalin have come to power? No.
Tell me merrigold have you looked into the laws our legislators have been passing? The ones passed in the name of "protecting women"?
Do you really think a man came up with the concepts and theories that legitimised opressing men to "uplift women"

This is why I say that Feminism is the most powerful, pernicious, and secret conspiracy of all. We aren't even aware of how deeply its twisted precepts have subverted our mental process and in fact our entire society.

I think the feminization of men...( is it so bad that hubby helps with dishes now...?) is a result of our changing lifestyles. As much as I may like my brute to pick me up over his shoulder and protect me from evil intentions the truth is he is needed to help wash the dishes, take care of the children and plan the dinner party because I'm at work.

This is precisely what I mean. The feminist myth of the "goddes female" and "brutish male" is ludicrous. And if by "the feminisation of men" you think I am referring to women in the workplace, or men helping thier wives with the chores, then the indoctrination is even deeper than I suspected.

Why does "feminine" has this negative connotation?

Huh?
Since when is "feminine" a bad thing?
This is what I mean by feminism creating a "victim complex"
No one is saying "feminine" is a bad thing.
The problem is that while no one objects to the use of the term "feminine" as an adjective of praise, whens the last time you heard manly, or masculine, used the same way?
At best, you hear "machismo" usually said with a sneering self rightousness.
Being feminine isnt bad, if your a female, or if your a male.
But if your a male who is "masculine"? Or who aspires to "Manliness"?
Then your just a "sex freak" a "brute" or a "mysogonist"

[edit on 5/6/2008 by Shazam The Unbowed]

I'm really glad to see this thread.

I've made tons of these arguments in defense of men and the importance of our particular "ways" to everyone. As different as the many cultures across the globe are, over the millenia, men -and the way we act/ think/ feel have been imperative.

But now it seems the elites have decided we don't need them anymore...

Bye-bye coconuts!

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed


Correlation != Causation. Just because the two appear linked doesn't make it so.

And, fy, doctors don't push soy formula on parents. Doctors push breast feeding, not formula.

And yet we live in a misogynist society/world. How is this possible?

I'm a man. I make no apologies. I like my burgers,
my beer. I'm rough in bed. I like the wide open range
when I shoot my guns.

I also read. I am an artist. I discuss topics
of global importance. Greater mental challenges
make life more interesting.
But I never forget who I am.

Against the feminine sex I am counterpart,
and complementary.

I fight for the means of survival. I am the tool of life
to ensure that life continues. I consider
the work of my hands an act of responsibility.
I see the way things "ought to be", but deal with things
the way that they are.

I am ugly, crass, and harsh when it serves the purpose
of providing and protection. In more civilized times,
I am an intellectual. I am both impulsive and patient.

I have wept for the state of humanity. I am a soldier
rising to the fore. I will die to make this a better world.

I am man. Man is me.



[edit on 6-5-2008 by ianr5741]

I often joke about being a "Masculinist", sort of like a feminist but for men. I feel this equal rights thing has been pushed too far to the womens side of things and it's the men that are now feeling the brunt of the sexual discrimination issues. So I see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure I totally agree with there being a conspiracy.

I completely admit that I am not a manly-man. I can't hunt, cook, fish, I know nothing about cars, aeroplanes or building/fixing things. But I do consider myself a man.

Both my brother and father know about cars and planes and engines and various things of the sought, so if there were anything effecting me to stop me being completely and utterly masculine then surely it would be effecting them too?

While my dad does know about those things, he is also a romantic and a soft/kind hearted man, as am I. I think I gained those traits from him but didn't pick up those other traits because I simply wasn't interested in them.

I have seen a lot of very, very feminine men out there. Particularly the up and coming guys. A lot of "emo's" who consider it cool to be as girly as possible while still being straight. Generally 15 - 18 year olds who hang out infront of hungry jacks in the city, wearing mascara and their sisters jeans and crying because their lives are so hard and full of pain. Are these the guys you're talking about?

I feel I may have completely missed your point but hey, have a reply.

I just know that there are most definately still "manly-men" out there, who fight and build things and destroy things and drink beer and know about engines and the like, but the more-feminine men are becoming more popular, i feel, due to the femininst movement. Or something.

I'll probably wake up in the morning and edit this to make more sense.

reply to post by ianr5741


I don't know if you are the poet that wrote that, if you are, my congratulations on understanding the true nature of man. This is the way we are and I will never have it any other way. I am so sick of seeing 'girly men' insulting others with impunity and when the insultee smacks the offensive fool, the first thing they do is call for the police and call they're lawyer. Its like they have the 'right' to insult and belittle anyone they like with impunity and no consequense. Like John Wayne in the 'The Shootest"
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them."
True words to live by!
Zindo





[edit on 5/6/2008 by ZindoDoone]

Originally posted by dave420

Correlation != Causation. Just because the two appear linked doesn't make it so.

Quite true. But it is my hope, that as I add more an mroe references to this thread, the causation will become clear.

And, fy, doctors don't push soy formula on parents. Doctors push breast feeding, not formula.

Now they do. But for twenty years or more they reccomended almost exclusivley soy based formulas. Many doctors still reccomend soy supplements for infant and toddler males. Why would they do so when the research shwoing soy reduces testosterone, which is an essential hormone to any male?Why would every baby bottle in the US and Europe ( or damn near) contain schemicals weknow do the same? Also The "natural breast feeding" trend is pretty new.

Originally posted by christiansoldier
And yet we live in a misogynist society/world. How is this possible?

Do we really?
or is that just another sugar laden the feminists have convinced you to swallow?
Are you sure?

Originally posted by Toy_soldier
I often joke about being a "Masculinist", sort of like a feminist but for men. I feel this equal rights thing has been pushed too far to the womens side of things and it's the men that are now feeling the brunt of the sexual discrimination issues. So I see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure I totally agree with there being a conspiracy.

Its a beginning.
Give it time. it took me years just to even begin to discern the most basic outlines of this conspiracy, as its so well hiden in plain site.

Both my brother and father know about cars and planes and engines and various things of the sought, so if there were anything effecting me to stop me being completely and utterly masculine then surely it would be effecting them too?

Your father? Proabably not depending on when he was born. Your brother? Possibly. But keep in mind, even chemicals with very well known effects affect different individuals in different ways, based on genetic predisposition. Its possible you simply have a lower phtalates tolerance.

While my dad does know about those things, he is also a romantic and a soft/kind hearted man, as am I. I think I gained those traits from him but didn't pick up those other traits because I simply wasn't interested in them.

Those who mistake compassion or love for weakness understand none of the above.

I have seen a lot of very, very feminine men out there. Particularly the up and coming guys. A lot of "emo's" who consider it cool to be as girly as possible while still being straight. Generally 15 - 18 year olds who hang out infront of hungry jacks in the city, wearing mascara and their sisters jeans and crying because their lives are so hard and full of pain. Are these the guys you're talking about?

In a roundabout way perhaps.
You see this isnt so much about the tpe of men being turned out, as it is about why they are turning out that way. Why do these young men feel its "cool" to be "girly" if not becasue they have heard masculinity demonised thier entire life?
Chances are if you are under 30, the closest to an image of "manliness" you have seen in popular culture is Al Bundy's "No Mam", Tim Allens "Home improvement" or Hanz and Franz skits. (am I showing my age here?) If you're younger than perhaps the mostly useless Ray Romano, or the equally nebbish Drew Carey. The point being, virtually every portrayal of men in popular culture, with a few noted exceptions, is either the buffoonish lout, or the cringe-worthy machismo of a masculine parody.
At our schools we were forced to supress our competitive instincts in the name of "self esteem" Any activity which might engage or excite a young man; dodgeball, recess, tag, has been banned. All of the things which boys need in order to learn have been scrubbed clean in favor of a more female friendly, coopertive appraoch. As the numbers show.
Understand, I dont mean theres a conspiracy against "manly men" I mean there is a concerted, directed conspiracy against the concpet of Manhood itself, as somehting seperate from personhood, or even womanhood. While woman now revel in grrrl power, and scream "I am woman hear me roar" men have become indoctrnated to beleive that saying " I am Man and I am proud" is somehow sexist.
But it goesbeyond that, how many men do you know who wouldnt even allow themselves to be proud of thier masculine heritage? Who would openly argue that there is nothign to be proud of. How many do you know who look at the Masculine life of Teddy Roosevelt, or Ernest Hemingway, and see not paragons of masculinity, but "macho neadtherthals"?
Be honest and I would bet the number of men you know who are afraid to even think of taking pride in their masculinty is greater than those who would be comfortable saying such. You might even be one of them.
And that my brother, is exactly what makes this conspiracy so easy to hide, deny and implement. We are the ones tying the noose, we are the ones placing the blade to our own necks, and we dont even know it.

I feel I may have completely missed your point but hey, have a reply.

Not at all, you just havent been lookign at this long enough to see the pattern yet. It takes a wide focus. But what you said here.

but the more-feminine men are becoming more popular, i feel, due to the femininst movement. Or something.

Shows you are on the right track at least.

reply to post by ianr5741


Testify brother, testify.






[edit on 5/6/2008 by Shazam The Unbowed]

Well, I suppose a woman should respond to this....a woman who loves MAN. LOL

As a woman, of 30+ years, I know what I love in a man. This comes from experience with different men. I absolutely believe there are differences between man and woman and on many levels they are not equal. I embrace that.

I know that I love a man who is a real man. No sissy allowed...(since the *P* word is not allowed)...here.

However, a man can still smell good and still have a soft side and show real emotions. He can still cry when the situation calls for it. He can still get down on the level of kids and play with them as if a he is a kid…and that includes playing with little girls when they want to have a tea party He can still cook me dinners complete with candlelight and dress nice when the event calls for it. He can tag along with me at the mall on one of many endless shopping trips...and tell me what he likes to see me in He can still endure some chic flic with me and hold my hand while doing so. He can still be silly one moment and very romantic the next. He can still admit his faults and admit when he is sick – for we like to take care of you He can still proudly stand in Victoria’s Secret after picking something out for me – all on his own. He can know my favorite things so he can shop for me all on his own. He can still bring me flowers for absolutely no reason....but just because.

And the list goes on and on and on…..


But at the same time.....he should not be afraid to stand by me and protect me from all. He should still be able to sit around with the guys and have a beer and say and do the silly stuff guys do. He should not be afraid to get dirty. He should be able to stand up for what he believes in, even if he has to spew a few choice words. He should like and embrace guy things: sports, guns, guy movies, cars, etc. He should have a strong sense of desire and need to support his family and let me stay home if I want but also let me work if I want.

And again….the list goes on and on and on…..

I know there are still real men out there. Are they a dying breed? Perhaps.
And are the feminist ridiculous? YES! As a female, I can say that!


[edit on 6-5-2008 by greeneyedleo]

I agree too. I'm not sure if it's a conspiracy but male bashing is at an all time high. It's happens so much that people don't even notice it. don't believe me that male bashing is everywhere than walk down the isle at the next hallmark card store and check out how much misandry is in them cards against men.

our male role models are gone. we need more marcinkos and chalkers and john waynes around. not tom cruises, and leonardo decraprios and soft men.

I'm now a bad guy with some women because I know how to operate a firearm, because I don't have an interest about what perfumes or clothes to wear. I tend to think more functionable not fashionable. There is a definite lack of testoterone out there. so if a guy wants a lamborghini it's because his dick is small? no sorry women sometimes men want to own a lamborghini because it's a natural extension of their male psychology. you know taking risks driving fast the love of adrenalin and danger etc...

whats wrong with rough housing? nothing it's natural in the male world. now if you even hurt someones feelings you get arrested for god knows what. Whats wrong with not shaving every day, nothing. unless you are a swimmer or a body builder going into a competition in a few weeks whats wrong with having body hair. women more and more say things like guys with hair are gross. Uhhhhh no, shaving all your body hair off to be accepted by confused women is gross. Metrosexual is an abomination to the testosterone indowed males of out species. wonder if they have ever thought that the reason they want weak men is because the women is insecure?

Face it the human species needs gruff males. it's called yin and yang. balance. see what happens when you have feminized men. it's not going to work out.

also, our new male actors and celebrities are getting pussier and pussier. It's like they all have to be waifish, blue eyed metrosexual shemen. leonardo decaprio's of the acting world. I could bitchslap that guy halfway to the moon and I doubt he's offer me a serious challenge back. his pussy lawyer might but not him. And the same goes for tom cruise. you're a wannabe man too. Pretty boys are rarely men thats why the term boy is the suffix to their names not men. men aren't pretty, they're handsome.

Women in america are by and large just as confused about men these days as are the mammas boys raised exclusively by women without a REAL male role model to understand what it means to be male or to even grow up into one.

also, just because you don't want to kowtow to what your girlfriend fiance whatever says doesn't make you immature. I hear it all the time. when is my man going to grow up and do everything I tell him. how bout real men don't do what you tell them. it's called leadership. it's what males do.

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Just gota ask...WILL YOU MARRY ME?????? just kidding, its refreshing to hear that opinion from a Real Lady.
Zindo

So there's a conspiracy against men?

Who are the conspirators?

Women?

Or are men conspiring against themselves?

The fact is that the human race is evolving, adapting to the altered conditions in its mostly self-created environment. Great brawling slabs of beef and butter, oozing beer and testosterone at every pore, no longer enjoy the selective advantage they once did. In modern technological society (that's the environment we live in), their brainless aggression, their violent status contests, their mammoth-killing skills no longer win the day.

They no longer cut quite the same dash with the ladies, either. This sort of man is being selected out because, far from being an asset to his genes, his aggression and instinctive irresponsibility have made him a liability. His vestigial usefulness as manual labour, which has allowed him and his fellows to survive as an underclass for the last two hundred years or so, is now at an end. He has served us well, but his work is done.

The very recent liberation of women -- a direct result of mechanization and universal education -- is as significant a step in the evolution of humanity than any that has been taken since the Upper Pleistocene. One of its consequences will be to eliminate Muscle Man. In the centuries and millennia to come, few will mourn his departure.

There's no conspiracy, just a lot of evolutionarily obsolete chaps going not quietly into that good night.

"A friend of mine (Ukrainian) was bringing his wife back from the Ukraine to Britain. The customs officer in the Ukraine looked at her then back to him and said: "Why are you bring that back? Don't you want a younger model?" My friend replied he'd known her for 10 or 15 years. After consideration, the customs officer said to him: "Remember to give her a smack every once in while to let her know who's boss." The point is that English speaking nations are the ones suffering with women. The rest of the world is more fortunate. They understand that women are emotional, territorial creatures and should be treated as such."

***
What are you saying here? That women should be smacked around? That you think the older women should be "traded in" for a younger model? This is what it means to you to be a man? If that's true, you can keep your definition. All we women want is to be treated equally. We don't want to be ridiculed when we express an opinion. We would just like to be respected. And we want the same rights and freedoms as men do. I don't think that's too much to ask for.

And women STILL don't make equal pay in many places of employment. The facts and statistics bear that out. Here's an article from Business Week from 2004:

www.businessweek.com...

"During the heyday of the women's movement more than 30 years ago, "59 cents on the dollar" was an oft-heard rallying cry, referring to how little women earned compared with men. Those concerns seem outdated today, when it's easy to find female doctors, lawyers, pop stars, even Presidential advisers. The progress toward equality in the workplace also shows up in government data on wages, which pegs women's average pay at 77% of men's compensation today.

But there's new evidence that women's advances may not be quite so robust after all. When you look at how much the typical woman actually earns over much of her career, the true figure is more like 44% of what the average man makes. That's the conclusion of a new study by Stephen J. Rose, an economist at Macro International Inc., a consulting firm, and Heidi I. Hartmann, President of the Institute for Women's Policy Research in Washington."

Here's a statistic from the U.S. Census Bureau:
usgovinfo.about.com...

"The workplace pay gap between men and women, once thought to be narrowing, has only been getting worse, according to an analysis of recently released census data conducted by the Institute for Women’s Policy Research.

Women make only 75.5 cents for every dollar that men earn, according to a new release by the U.S. Census Bureau."

Google "women's pay + compared to men". You'll get tons of sources, most reliable, many of them govt. stats, ALL saying that women still make less than men do, for the same types of work.

Last month, there was a bill that was for guaranteeing that women made as much as men, for the same work. It didn't pass.
Those are just two examples of how women are not treated equally as men.
There is one aspect of being a man, that IMO, truly has disappeared; that is that many men don't feel they need to act like gentlemen. I don't mean opening up doors for women, I'm talking just plain old-fashioned chivalry.
Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean that I have to be confined to yours or anyone else's ideas of who they think I should be or what my role is. Same thing goes for men.
As for women being territorial, what, you've never met a territorial man? I think that men tend to be more territorial than women.

Just because some men think there's a conspiracy against them, doesn't mean they have to bash women, which is where these types of threads ALWAYS end up.

FOlks, check this out. An great addition to this thread.

How feminism destroyed real men

Btw... This subject is what the pickup artist community has been ranting and raving about for years. This part of the article describes it best. First it describes the men that the politically correct feminist endorse, but that women actually loathe, use and walk over.

Men are now generally terrified of women. They hold their tongues for fear of being misinterpreted as sexist; they constantly attempt to secondguess their partner in order to avoid giving offence.

They preen themselves with groaning shelves full of beauty products so they won't incur derision and scorn. They suppress their masculinity and present themselves as cuddly Mr Nice Guys, and won't project self- confidence in case it's regarded as unreconstructed machismo.

This backfiring feminist conspiracy has, of course, developed hand in hand with the march of raging political correctness in Britain. The two have combined like some potent chemical reaction to explode in the faces of a generation of women who thought that a 'moulded' man would make for a desirable one.

In recent years, men have been trained like circus seals to be inoffensive to women, and no longer know how to entice them and turn them on.

It then goes on to describe the men that women actually (secretly) desire to have.

But women secretly long for a man with swagger, who is cocky and selfassured and has the cheek to stand up them and make fun of their feminine foibles.

They long for the rakish charm of a man who knows there's a whole ocean of fish out there, who isn't afraid of being himself in case he is rejected.

The truth is, a real man doesn't care what any woman thinks of him. He doesn't care what anyone thinks of him: he answers solely to his spirit.

Real men don't pretend or even try to understand women. They simply love them for being the mysterious, capricious creatures that they are. And they don't take them too seriously, either. They know the vicissitudes of the female mind, its constant insecurities and the fluctuations in mood.

[edit on 6-5-2008 by TheBandit795]

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Well, I suppose a woman should respond to this....a woman who loves MAN. LOL

greeneyedleo, I know we both got off on the wrong foot, possibly because I misinterperted some of your statements, and possibly becasue your avatar represents the absolute cruxification of one of my favorite female superheroes, either way, You seem to be missing my points.
So let me start over.

However, a man can still smell good

and still have a soft side and show real emotions. He can still cry when the situation calls for it. He can still get down on the level of kids and play with them as if a he is a kid…and that includes playing with little girls when they want to have a tea party

He can still cook me dinners complete with candlelight and dress nice when the event calls for it. He can tag along with me at the mall on one of many endless shopping trips...and tell me what he likes to see me in

He can still endure some chic flic with me and hold my hand while doing so. He can still be silly one moment and very romantic the next. He can still admit his faults and admit when he is sick – for we like to take care of you

He can still proudly stand in Victoria’s Secret after picking something out for me – all on his own. He can know my favorite things so he can shop for me all on his own. He can still bring me flowers for absolutely no reason....but just because.

Understand I don't disagree per se. However my problem is that nowadays a man who doesnt use colonge all the time or who does work hard enough to stink to high heaven at the end of the day, and isnt ashamed of it; is considered a "brute". The prolem isnt that men cant have tea parties with thier daughtters, its the unspoken message than any man who doesnt like tea parties on their own merits is a "uncultured knave". Likewise the man who doesnt cook gourmet organic vegan food for his wife each night is seen as deficient. Its not that anyone is saying a man can't have a soft side, its the implication that any man who isnt all softside is a "macho prick".
In other words it has become the very mirror image of the world that women once wanted to escape. Early feminist's claimed that the feminine was demonised and made out to be inferior. Thier solution? Spend the next 70 years demonising the masculine in the exact same way. The difference being that Male guilt over all "our crimes" made us as incapable of fighting back as a lack of property rights made woman at one time, if not moreso.

But at the same time.....he should not be afraid to stand by me and protect me from all. He should still be able to sit around with the guys and have a beer and say and do the silly stuff guys do.

He should not be afraid to get dirty. He should be able to stand up for what he believes in, even if he has to spew a few choice words. He should like and embrace guy things: sports, guns, guy movies, cars, etc. He should have a strong sense of desire and need to support his family and let me stay home if I want but also let me work if I want.

Wow you really aren't a feminist. My bad.
Heres where I see the problem. Both men and women have now been indoctrinated to believe that any man who does want to protect you, or any other woman, is actually trying to "possess"you.
Its the belief, now made into law, that any man who does spend time with guys drinking beer is negleting you and your needs.
Its the perception that any man who likes to get dirty is a pig, a redneck, or a bum.
Its the idea that if he is into cars, its because "he compensating"; if he is into guy movies its because hes lowborw and hyperviolent; if he does want to let you stay home, or god forbid has his own point of view on whether or not you should, or even worse tries to convince you one way or the other, then hes obviously a woman hating caveman who wants to keep you barefoot, pregnant, and illiterate in the kithcen.

And are the feminist ridiculous? YES! As a female, I can say that!

And that, is precisely the problem. It shouldnt matter whether you are female or not. Everyone should be allowed, no screw that, encouraged to say it, becasue untill more of us do, the rest will be afraid to even think it.



[edit on 5/6/2008 by Shazam The Unbowed]

Originally posted by TheBandit795
FOlks, check this out. An great addition to this thread.

How feminism destroyed real men

Brilliant find.
And yeah, the Man is dead #ing on.