A New Christian Conspiracy!

reply to post by TheWalkingFox



Howie is NOT defending incest and forced marriages!

I was engaged at 14 to a 17 year old from Bowling Green, Kentucky.
It might have been a good marriage, but, we broke up. I went on to party and get myself in loads of trouble (including quitting school in 9th grade.)

If they aren't good enough to marry, why commit sin with/for them in fornication?

*** double post***

[edit on 15-4-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by Howie47

The question about cults is. Who or what is a cult?

Ah, I see your concern, and I agree it is legitimate. To simply label a group as 'cult' is an easy thing to do, especially when you have control over the MSM.

The problem arises when people begin to ignore laws in favor of their own 'way'. Jim Jones did this, and his followers all died. So did the others you mentioned (with the possible exception of Koresh, there seems to be a lot more speculation than facts in the Waco case IMO).

I really have no answer to this problem. Non-consensual sex is abhorrent, especially with children. That alone seems to place this latest TX cult squarely in the wrong. But as to an overall answer, I have none.

TheRedneck

reply to post by Clearskies


What a surprise. You're defending his defense. Unfortunately, his absolute and unwavering defense of sects that condone and engage in such practices - not as a deviance from but as a central point of their faiths - places him squarely in defense of it.

You were engaged at 14 in a state where the age of consent is 16? I presume your parents arranged for it? 'Cause I can't really imagine any parents being real happy about their 14 year old getting engaged, unless they were the ones behind it to start with. Or do you mean "engaged" as in "we liked each other and he gave me a promise ring?" kind of thing?

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


I'm sure Howie is not defending Mormonism. Polygamy, that is.

My parents indeed gave their approval of my engagement. Not arranged AT ALL!
We were going to wait a while and he DID give me a promise ring.

Haveing sex with underage girls is wrong, but did it happen? Or did the Government just add on to that, wheather all that really happened or not is up in the air at the moment, nothing solid has landed yet, plus teenage girls do make up stuff all the time, so I don't know, maybe nothing really happened and they got in trouble for not poaying taxes, even though there is no law that says you have to, I have'nt paid taxes my whole life and nobdy's gotten me for it.

-Jimmy

|---WRONG THREAD---|

Damn these multi-tab browsing habits of mine.

[edit on 4/15/08 by Snoopy64]

Most of you that are so quick to bash the Catholic Church, just have no understanding of it. I expect it from non-Christians but when I see Christians of other deominations bashing another Christian religion, actually any religion makes me sick....That is not being a Christian.

That is the problem with religion today..It is not the religions, it is the people. There are too many "cafeteria catholics." I will only say this because I am Catholic. They call themselves Catholic, but don't follow any teachings.

For all of you that want to bash the Catholic Church that is fine if that is what you want to do, I will not try to stop you. I know first hand that if you really understand the Catholic faith it goes very deep, and is very powerfull.

Like I said, many do not understand the original Christian Church.

All religions are man made. I try to follow Jesus, but I'm not a fan of church. People have piled 2000 years of distortions on top of what He originally taught. Many Christians have a literal view of the Bible, but they have no clue of how it was compiled. They are satisfied to sit and nod at whatever someone tells them, and have a very shallow understanding.

Jesus never had a new testament, I wonder what he would think of how it has been interpreted.

reply to post by Clearskies


I'm only trying to bring balance to the conversation, by posting
possible, reasonable alternate explanations. Don't really know allot about
Mormons. From what I do know; I have doubts that they are even Christian! Here is a interesting story of a women that came out of a
Polygamist Family. I would of course have to learn more from other sources before I would pass judgment.
Story Here

reply to post by smokingmonkey


Kudos to you smokingmonkey. I agree with that statment 100%

Originally posted by smokingmonkey
All religions are man made. I try to follow Jesus, but I'm not a fan of church. People have piled 2000 years of distortions on top of what He originally taught. Many Christians have a literal view of the Bible, but they have no clue of how it was compiled. They are satisfied to sit and nod at whatever someone tells them, and have a very shallow understanding.

Jesus never had a new testament, I wonder what he would think of how it has been interpreted.

Even as a strong Catholic, I think you make some good points. This is why religion is something I will not debate here. I think it is better to be a good person that may not believe, believe or have doubts, than somebody who calls themselves a Christian and goes bashing other religions.

All I know is if anybody believes in Jesus, I bet he wouldn't bash other people's beliefs.

[edit on 15-4-2008 by Comsence2075]

reply to post by Comsence2075


There's been more Protastant bashing on here than Catholic bashing, so what are you upset about, I've "bashed" (more like pointed out flaws) in both, it's called appologetics. The Catholic church claims to be the first church, but I don't see any of the desciples or apostles claiming to be Catholic
I feel I believe more like they do because I have a personal relationship with Christ. For the longest time the Priests were the only ones allowed to read the bible, Martin Luther changed that around, the Catholics also took out the book of Enoch (and Christians keep it out) a book that is specifically for us Christians. The Catholic church has done many, many evils, so has the Christian church. The reason why I make the destinction between the two is because Christians believe that salvation comes through Christ alone, Catholics believe it can come through the Pope, through Jesus, and through the most previlant figure in there faith, The Virgin Mary. The bible (the original one) is very clear on who can give you salvation, plus Catholics believe that you can pay away your sins, well Christians believe in asking for forgivness and that only God can forgive you of sins. So there is a BIG difference between the two, they are in fact two different religions.

The Difference Between Catholicism and Christianity

Question: What is the difference between Catholicism and Biblical Christianity?

Answer: Catholicism and Biblical Christianity are divergent religions. They are built on different foundations, and they propose different ways of salvation.

In principle, Christianity is built solely on the Holy Scriptures, the written Word of God. The Bible is our only infallible rule of faith, being sufficient to give us the sure knowledge of the Gospel for our salvation and holiness.

Roman Catholicism demands submission of the intellect and will to the doctrines taught by the Roman magisterium (the Pope and bishops). It is claimed that the Catholic Church derives its doctrines from the "sacred deposit" found in Scriptures and Sacred Tradition. However the faithful cannot verify these doctrines by referring to the original sources. The Scriptures are inaccessible because only the magisterium is able to establish the authentic meaning. Similarly the contents of Sacred Tradition can only be known through the magisterium. Roman Catholicism is mental and spiritual slavery to the Vatican.

As expected, since the foundations are different, so also are the edifices built upon them. Christianity stands on the Gospel of God's sovereign grace. In love, God predestines His chosen ones to be adopted as sons through Jesus Christ, their sole mediator. The Son became man and gave His life as a ransom to secure their freedom from sin. Being dead in sin, they are completely unable to convert ourselves or merit God's favour. Therefore God graciously grants His people repentance and faith to turn to Him and trust in Christ Jesus for salvation. Believers are accepted in Christ, solely on the merit of His righteousness and blood, and not because of any goodness or human merit. God also resides in His people by the Holy Spirit, enabling them to obey and glorify the Father, and to guarantee their inheritance in heaven forever.

Rome's "gospel" is not good news at all. The Roman institution, calling itself "The Church", usurps Christ's mediatorial office, proclaiming herself as the "sacrament of salvation." The "Church" dispenses salvation to her faithful in small portions, starting at baptism and continuing throughout life. Forgiveness can only be obtained through the sacrament of penance. The benefits of Christ's sacrifice are accessible through the sacrifice of the Mass. Instead of teaching the faithful to rest in Christ by faith, Catholics are taught to perform religious works to "merit grace" and to do penance to make satisfaction. Even after death, Catholics remains dependent on the "Church" to relieve their suffering in Purgatory by masses and indulgences.

The Roman Catholic Church is a mighty obstacle to anyone seeking salvation, enslaving millions of people to a religious system and preventing them from coming directly to Christ.

The choice is between the Bible and the Roman magisterium; the choice is between salvation by grace through faith in Christ, or through human merit and effort in the Roman religion.

External Source

So you see there is more than a "denominational" difference, but once agian, THIS THREAD IS NOT CHR vs. CAT!

reply to post by jimmyjackblack


You misunderstood me Jimmy. I am not upset over anything. I was reffering to anybody of any Christian religion bashing another. There are flaws in the protestant religion from a Catholic view as well and on and on.

reply to post by Comsence2075


Yes, I agree there are flaws, those are noted in my original post. This is a thread about finding the main cause of the corruption of the Church, both Catholic and Christian have strayed far from the original teachings of Christ and is now centered on makeing ones self wealthy and being a good little American (because America never does anything wrong, or so we are told by the Church).

-Jimmy

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
reply to post by Comsence2075

 

Yes, I agree there are flaws, those are noted in my original post. This is a thread about finding the main cause of the corruption of the Church, both Catholic and Christian have strayed far from the original teachings of Christ and is now centered on makeing ones self wealthy and being a good little American (because America never does anything wrong, or so we are told by the Church).

-Jimmy

Well as sad as it is, I agree with you so I will not take up more thread space. I was basically agreeing with you which is why I interpreted it as a problem with people, not religion. I realize that was a little different from your core point though.

reply to post by jimmyjackblack


Hi OP,

It's easy to blame false prophets and prosperity-churches. They've been around since the beginning of religion. The crux lies within the human psyche. It's more comfortable to dream and hope for wealth and fortune than to face the cold, harsh reality of life in the US. Prosperity-churches are gaining in members, because the US middle class is dwindling. They (we) are desperately holding on to their (financial) dreams by getting a (faux spiritual) shot in the arm on Sunday morning. The preachers know and exploit that fact mercilessly.

I don't blame the questionable churches and preachers, though. (They're only (successfully) trying to make a buck.) I have a hard time understanding the followers. What about your own responsibility of discerning the truth?

reply to post by crestone


Well I read the bible and listen to the Holy Spirit, I also use logic. If someone is teaching something and I can't find it supported in the Bible (e.i. being slain in the Holy Spirit) then I call it bunk, simply because Yeshua answered all our questions, since He is the model for what we should be then He has an answer. So when a preacher is telling me that buying shoes from "Payless Shoe Store" is not of God, because he's too good for it (which, believe it or not I've heard that before) usually somthing turns my stomach, and the thing turning my stomach is the Holy Spirit, it literally makes me sick to my stomach to hear things like that.
A church I used to go to had what was known as a "Counsel of Kings", this is basicly the richest folks in the church that get together and decide what the church is going to do next. This my friend is just like our government, rich folk choosin' our futures for us. To me the very idea of a group of rich people (good poeple or not) making these descisions is ludacrise.
Money is such an evil thing these days, I believe that is why if I ever get a bunch, then I'll put as much as I can into a mission, cause money is destroying the church, well there are a lot of factors really, but money is a big one.

reply to post by jimmyjackblack

Jimmy, I have to say that was the best assessment of a faith I have heard in a long time. Well said!

Nowhere does the Bible say that we are to blindly follow anyone. All the information we need is given in the Bible. All the preachers/priests/bishops/pastors/ministers are there for is to handle day-to-day affairs and help us to learn the truth from the Word.

TheRedneck