Whats the Truth about Tibet?

reply to post by IchiNiSan


Thanks for all the references.
Star for you!

I'll check them out this week when I'm not so exhausted!

Interesting article here about it :

China and America: The Tibet Human Rights PsyOp

Weakening China from within: Covert Support to Secessionist Movements

Consistent with its policy of weakening and ultimately fracturing the People's Republic of China, Washington supports secessionist movements both in Tibet as wall as in the Xinjiang-Uigur autonomous region which borders onto North Eastern Pakistan and Afghanistan.

In Xinjiang-Uigur, Pakistani intelligence (ISI), acting in liaison with the CIA, supports several Islamist organizations. The latter include the Islamic Reformist Party, the East Turkestan National Unity Alliance, the Uigur Liberation Organization and the Central Asian Uigur Jihad Party. Several of these Islamic organizations have received support and training from Al Qaeda, which is a US sponsored intelligence asset. The declared objective of these Chinese-based Islamic organizations is the "establishment of an Islamic caliphate in the region" (For further details see Michel Chossudovsky, America's War on Terrorism, Global Research, Montreal, 2005, Chapter 2).

The caliphate would integrate Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan (West Turkestan) and the Uigur autonomous region of China (East Turkestan) into a single political entity.

The "caliphate project" encroaches upon Chinese territorial sovereignty. Supported by various Wahabi "foundations" from the Gulf States, secessionism on China’s Western frontier is, once again, consistent with U.S. strategic interests in Central Asia. Meanwhile, a powerful U.S.-based lobby is channeling support to separatist forces in Tibet.

By tacitly promoting the secession of the Xinjiang-Uigur region (using Pakistan’s ISI as a "go-between"), Washington is attempting to trigger a broader process of political destabilization and fracturing of the People’s Republic of China. In addition to these various covert operations, the U.S. has established military bases in Afghanistan and in several of the former Soviet republics, directly on China’s Western border.

The militarization of the South China Sea and of the Taiwan Straits is also an integral part of this strategy.(Ibid)

www.globalresearch.ca...

reply to post by Odessy


When I was in Tibet, I saw a lot of westerner traveling in there.
Why don't you ask them about the truth of Tibet , I don't think
all westerner are as bias as your infamous "free media".



[edit on 13-4-2008 by gs001]

reply to post by Gun Totin Gerbil


starred, this is a piece of summing up all some of my sources and fresh new. Thank you for bringing it up

double-post

[edit on 13/4/08 by IchiNiSan]

reply to post by Odessy



I'm not sure, but I think it is just another independence issue, like taiwan splitting off the mainland.

But, like with many NWO issues, there are usually more than just one level to it.

And added to that, the truth usually runs opposite to the rhetoric.




[edit on 13-4-2008 by toasted]

Please, if you have the time, check out this new Tibet Thread and comment.
I'll post the videos here, but if you could, comment on Phil J. Fry's thread, as he is the one that brought them to my attention.

By only watching the first part I already see how biased this video clip is and not bringing up real evidence to support the footages. The rest are not much better.

It's now only the words of Tibetans against well nothing else, and the Western public seems to buy into it.

For the same money anyone from a pro-China field could compile similar documentary showing how happy and friendly Tibetans are, how the Hans, Huis and Tibetans are living happily next doors.

Look at the following thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This shows how easily it is to make a propaganda video and bring something totally out of context.

Tibet: The Truth (A Political History)

The celebration of 40th anniversary of the foundation of Tibet autonomous region

I have to correct my American friends about something:
you must believe all Tibetan want independence? and Dalai Lama is the representative
of all Tibetan? that is completely wrong.
most of Tibetan enjoy their lives as Chinese, and Dalai Lama's influence amid Tibetan
is becoming weaker and weaker. that is why Dalai Lama's clique regard Olympics as
their LAST opporunity to separate Tibet from China.
So don't be silly, if you just trust the propaganda of Dalai exilic clique,
you will make terrible mistake.
info.tibet.cn...

A brief history of the 14 Dalai Lamas so far
Author: Charles Carreon


The illustrious history of the Dalai Lamas just doesn’t exist. Their sad legacy is a testament to the byzantine manipulations of the Potala Junta. The Tibetan people have been taught that they are led by a god-king, but that king is an invention of unscrupulous political strategists who sell influence as their primary product. If the rascals who manipulated the lives of these 14 individuals as the figureheads of their corrupt theocracy have indeed reincarnated into this age, we are all unfortunate that they haven’t fallen into the hells they so eagerly imagine for others. They had a corrupting influence on the life of Tibet, and on the lives of the 14 Dalai Lamas they manipulated. We have enough corruption, and don’t need to be importing it from past eras.



The First Dalai Lama didn’t apparently know anything about being a Dalai Lama. That is because, like the Second Dalai Lama, he was only recognized "posthumously." Who did the recognizing? Well, the Third Dalai Lama! When did he do it? After he identified himself as the Third Dalai Lama! Wow, that’s kind of like writing your resume with the qualifications of dead people, but what the heck. They’re not around to object.

This tradition continues with the current Dalai Lama (14DL), who voiced an intuition to a TIME reporter once while visiting Monticello, the home of Thomas Jefferson, that he might have previously incarnated as this early President of the United States. Wow, author of the Declaration of Independence, member of the First Constitutional Congress, and Third President of the United States! Well, let’s see, that would have been in 1776. A little arithmetic will show us that, during that time period, the Eighth Dalai Lama (8DL) was on the throne in Tibet. Okay, assume that he did not only reincarnate successively as a bunch of Tibetans, he generated a double and had him reborn in Virginia (where he developed a taste for having sex with his slaves, but that’s another story). Assuming this, he was simultaneously T. Jefferson, Founding Father of the USA, and Jamphel Gyatso (1758-1804), who according to this website news.mpr.org... at Minnesota Public Radio ("MPR"), "was uninterested in politics, and for a 150-year period starting with his reign, day-to-day power was exercised in Tibet neither by Dalai lamas nor the Chinese ambans, but by a series of regents. During Jamphel Gyatso’s reign, Tibet fought wars with the Gurkhas of Nepal, and received a delegation from England, which was interested in Tibet because of its strategic location in relation to British India, China, and Czarist Russia. The Tibetans at this time began to severely restrict outside visitors."

So, what a guy! A real diplomat this 8DL/Third US President. He’s fighting a war with Britain on one side of the world, and having them to tea on the other side. And the British none the wiser.

At any rate, you’d figure once he got back from this double incarnation, he’d drop the apolitical stance of the Eighth Dalai Lama and import some democratic reforms into Tibet. Let’s check the Ninth DL’s record.

Whoops! He didn’t get much of a chance, since he was "likely murdered" at age 11 by his compassionate tutors. According to MPR, 9DL Lungtok Gyatso (1806-1815) enjoyed a very brief reign. He "died at age 11 in the Potala palace. Some historians believe that, given the tumultuous state of Tibetan politics, he was assassinated. The subsequent three Dalai Lamas also died young. Some theories suggest they, too, were murdered." Well, maybe he did come back from America with some ideas for reform!

At any rate, back to the Dalai Lama and the Mongol thugs. What’s that about? The Third DL recognized himself as the incarnation of two men who had apparently never prophesied that, in the future, they would be reborn as 3DL. IN-teresting, that. Because one of the bulwarks of "credibility" for the serial-reincarnation hypothesis is that the births of the reincarnated ones are foreseen by the prior incarnation. This slim warrant of authority is lacking for the Third Dalai Lama. But what did he care? He had Mongol muscle to back his claim.

How’d that happen? Well, kind of like with the TIME reporters. The Third DL was hanging out with Altan Khan in around 1578 when suddenly he had a flash. In a past life, 3DL told the Khan, he had been a famous Tibetan warlord! And in that past life as a Tibetan warlord, the Khan’s spiritual mentor had been — YES! Prior incarnations of 3DL! Happy reunion! Kill the fatted calf.

And who was 4DL? Squeeze your eyes shut really hard and think about how Tibetans work. Make your guess! YES! The Fourth Dalai Lama was Altan Khan’s Grandson! YES!

So what happened in the reign of 5DL? Let’s just take a quote from the Shamarpa’s website
www.karmapa-controversy.org...
since they can be presumed to know their Tibetan history pretty well:

"The landscape of the old Tibet was dotted with wars, political intrigue, and bloody feuds. For centuries, two old, "red-hat" Buddhist schools, the Sakya and the Kagyu, held, one after the other, undisputed sway over the country. By the beginning of the seventeenth century, a new power had emerged and began to threaten the political status quo: the Gelugs, or Virtuous Ones, a "yellow-hat," reformed Buddhist order, founded around 1410 by a disciple of the 4th Karmapa. Led by the mighty 5th Dalai Lama and his authoritative ministers, the Gelugs invited Gushri Khan, the Mongolian warlord, into Tibet in 1638. Their design was to break the power of the Kagyus, take over the government, and secure a hold on Kham in the east and the rebellious Tsang in the south of the country. Given free rein, the ferocious Mongol hordes razed to the ground or converted to the Gelugpa tradition a large number of Nyingma monasteries. The 10th Karmapa had to flee into a thirty-year exile after his camp was attacked by an army operating on orders from the Dalai Lama’s ministers. The school of the Virtuous Ones imposed their political hegemony with sword and fire."

5DL was such a powerful figure that his "regent" concealed his death for about fifteen years. MPR wrote:

"Lozang Gyatso’s death in 1682 was not announced until 1697, as the regent of Tibet attempted to monopolize power."

That’s cool.

That’s cool. This DL scam gets manipulated every which way. When they’re dead, you conceal their death for fifteen years, and — wait a minute — how the hell do you conceal the DL’s death for fifteen years? Wouldn’t somebody notice? That will give you an idea how tight lips were sealed in the Potala. And if you think you can keep a political secret for fifteen years without killing a few people and bribing a hell of a lot more, then you should definitely be a Tibetan Buddhist, ‘cause you can believe anything.

But eventually, someone finds out that the DL is dead, and you gotta pick a new one. No problem.

6DL hasn’t been discussed before, but he also died young, at age 23. He made the mistake of alienating the Mongols who had made the DLs the puppet leaders of the nation. The Mongols invaded, kicked him off the throne, and killed him when he tried to flee Tibet. From the MPR site:

"Tsangyang Gyatso (1683-1706). Because of the delay in announcing the Fifth Dalai Lama’s death, Tsangyang Gyatso was well into his teens before he was recognized as the Sixth Dalai Lama. He is considered to be the most unconventional Dalai Lama. He dressed as a layperson, drank wine, enjoyed the company of women and composed love songs that are still popular in Tibet. His eccentric style alienated him from Mongol leader Lhabzang Khan, who invaded Tibet during this time and deposed Tsangyang Gyatso. He died while leaving the country; many historians believe he was murdered. Lhabsang Khan appointed another monk, Yeshe Gyatso, as the Seventh Dalai Lama, but his legitimacy has never been recognized by the Tibetan people."

7DL knew better than to piss off the politicians, because his posse got the Chinese to push out the Mongols, who had deposed 6DL. 7DL remained a figurehead political leader, with a Chinese "amban" making all the decisions pursuant to Chinese law.

8DL we already discussed. Another hands-off leader, thanks perhaps to having transferred his political spirit through the ether to his co-incarnation, Thomas Jefferson.

9DL, as we know, died young. Here’s the stats on 10DL, 11DL and 12DL, indicating that here was a position with no job security. From the MPR website again:

"10th
Tsultrim Gyatso (1816-1837). Like his predecessor, Tsultrim Gyatso died suddenly in Potala before assuming temporal power. During his brief life, Tibet continued to isolate itself, while keeping a suspicious eye on its borders.

11th
Khendrup Gyatso (1838-1856). He was the third in a series of Dalai Lamas who died at an early age. During Khendrup Gyatso’s life, China’s influence in Tibet weakened further because of the Opium War and the Taiping Rebellion. Tibet’s struggles continued with Nepal and Ladakh to the west.

12th

Trinley Gyatso (1856-1875). His reign was a time of severe unrest among Tibet’s neighbors. The weaker Qing dynasty was unable to provide military support because of its own battles. At the same time, the British intensified pressure on the Tibetan borders, from their colonial bastion in India."

Time for Arithmetic:

10DL was killed at age 21 "before assuming temporal power." That’s 21 years of rule by regents.
11DL was killed at age 18, so that’s another 18 years of regent-rule.
12DL was killed at age 19, adding another 19 years of regent-rule.

If you ask whether the Trimondis are off their nut with their book, The Shadow of the Dalai Lama (see the Thorn in the Lotus thread), which alludes to murder and human sacrifice as elements of ritual, you must consider this fact: the Holy Men in the Potala somehow killed the God-king Four Times! Serially going through this charade of "finding a reincarnation," taking him from his family, and mummifying him in ritual, then sending him off to the heavenly realms. Probably they did it with careful rituals that made sure his soul wouldn’t get bruised from all that birth, death, rebirth stuff.

Now consider also that the old lamas who committed the god-murders have also been reincarnating. There’s no history to say that finally the Potala Junta was broken up and 12DL was therefore not murdered, and all of his killers were forbidden to reincarnate. Hell no, the Potala Junta leaders continued to reincarnate, and their later incarnations still hold positions of power within the Gelugpa power structure.

So lemme ask you this: when 14DL draws inspirational support from his lineage, how the hell does he do it? What’s it like to know that he is surrounded by the reincarnations of people who serially killed his past incarnations, assuming he believes in this stuff. How do you draw inspiration from a guy like 3DL, who apparently was a total opportunist. How do you draw inspiration from 4DL, who was the grandson of the guy who bought into 3DL’s "Hey man, we were together in past incarnations!" scam? How do you draw inspiration from 5DL, who converted people by the sword and took over opposing monasteries in a gangsterish takeover assisted by Gushri Khan’s mongol thugs that put rival sect leaders into exile.

But let’s move on. Finally 13DL lives a normal lifespan. How is that? Well, he was a jumpy kinda guy. Probably got to thinkin’ about what had happened to 9DL - 12DL, and got a #in’ clue. Most people say he fled Tibet twice to escape outside aggression. See MPR website. However, I suspect that he wanted to get the hell out of the Potala any damn way he could. Much better out their traveling amongst the poor people who think you’re god, than in the castle, where everyone thinks they’re god, and you’re just a pawn in their game. All of the old conniving lamas stay in Lhasa, with their wealth and ceremonies. You get out on horseback with the yak herders, and you’re a lot safer.

14DL has followed the same tactic, at least by getting out of Lhasa. It has probably saved his life, if the histories of the prior five DLs tells us anything.

Of course, you probably think he had no choice but to abdicate, but I question that. Remember how suspicious it was when "W" hid in a bunker while the WTO towers were reduced to smoking ruin. When London was being bombed with V2 rockets and buzz bombs, did Churchill flee to America? Why is Israel pushing so hard to evict Arafat? Abdication is the abandonment of your followers, that’s why. A leader in exile is no leader at all.

From a traditional viewpoint.

14DL now hopes to build the Tibet that never existed — one founded on equality and fairness — something more Jeffersonian, like 9DL might’ve had in mind, if he hadn’t died at age 11.

So what’s the box score? We start with 14 Dalai Lamas:

1DL didn’t even know he was one.
2DL didn’t know it either.
3DL was some kind of clever opportunist.
4DL was a royal appointee.
5DL was a killer-conqueror, and his last fifteen years of "rule" were fraudulent.
6DL was murdered at the age of 23, and his appointed successor was denied office.
7DL was put on the throne by the Chinese, who treated him as a figurehead.
8DL was a hands-off guy who let the Chinese run the country.
9DL was murdered and never ruled.
10DL was murdered and never ruled.
11DL was murdered and never ruled.
12DL was murdered and never ruled.
13DL fled twice, which isn’t a sign of great political support, but nominally ran the country.
14DL effectively abdicated, and never ruled the country. As a leader in exile, he is a figurehead for armies of monastics who take refuge in his popularity to pump their own organizations.

In the end, the illustrious history of the Dalai Lamas just doesn’t exist. Their sad legacy is a testament to the byzantine manipulations of the Potala Junta. The Tibetan people have been taught that they are led by a god-king, but that king is an invention of unscrupulous political strategists who sell influence as their primary product. If indeed, the rascals who manipulated the lives of these 14 individuals as the figureheads of their corrupt theocracy have indeed reincarnated into this age, we are all unfortunate that they haven’t fallen into the hells they so eagerly imagine for others. They had a corrupting influence on the life of Tibet, and on the lives of the 14 Dalai Lamas they manipulated. We have enough corruption, and don’t need to be importing it from past eras.

[edit on 19-4-2008 by wwssii]

above is a very interesting version of Dalai Lamas.. just for fun!

reply to post by wwssii


Now that you have had your fun with the Dalai Lama...and by the way Chinese leaders have had their contraversies...lets move on to what tibet is now under the heels of the PRC.

Tibetan land stolen and Tibetans herded into slums. Forced abortion and sterilazation. Spiritual practice denied. Wrongful imprisonment and toture.

Originally posted by Witness2008

Tibetan land stolen and Tibetans herded into slums. Forced abortion and sterilazation. Spiritual practice denied. Wrongful imprisonment and toture.

To a hardened paranoia, any explanation seems to be useless.
fortunately, not all westerner behave like that.


[edit on 20-4-2008 by gs001]

Okay your all wrong i really hate people who get this wrong
go here everything on there is right.
www.Tibettruth.Com...

it was made by my dad he has been devoted to the cause for over 26 years now and is one if not the most knowledgeable
and accurate person out there.




[edit: lower-cased All Caps content]
Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 21-5-2008 by 12m8keall2c]

reply to post by Screemer


So if my daddy make a website called "www.tibet-no-lies.com" then it would means eveything in that website is "no lies" and not one-sided?

Wake up buddy! The very fact your daddy decided to ignore all the violence and the killings of the Lahsa riot or have the so-called coercive birth control totally wrong in that website already means he is simply putting one-sided reports on his website.

Proof me wrong with some independent reportings! In this very thread (and others) many links to NON-CHINESE sources are provided. You can go to those link for once and check it out first.

Surprise, surprise your chinese.... you sure love the motherland ey?
Duuuuude its not biased to tell the inconvienent truth.... my dad isn't Chinese either.



1. They weren't riots they were peaceful protests, until the chinese started firing on them. And for what exactly... waving flags?
agamsgecko.blogspot.com...

2. The Chinese Government are using there secret police to make tibetans look violent
salonesoterica.wordpress.com...

3. Chinese troops are being violent by firing on innocents without good reason and you think there won't be retribution by the police for what the tibetans did? The number of casualties inflicted by the chinese far outweigh the paltry few by tibetans.
newsinfo.inquirer.net...

4. What about the protests of buddist monks you have failed to acknowledge, they are peaceful yet the chinese are the ones threating them.

5. What if the tibetans are being violent? (which they are not responsible for) They have had enough of their oppression, good for them! is that not understandable that they should react to a country that has tortured suppresed and butchered its people.

6.They are human! do you expect just to do nothing, to be quiet whilst they are in fear of merely speaking out against the government.

Pictures of tibetan victims in the protests
www.tchrd.org...

Chinese shoot at refugees
www.hrw.org...

Is that enough to satisfiy you?


[edit on 22-5-2008 by Screemer]