Whats the Truth about Tibet?

Nice topic Odessy, I was pondering exactly the same issue myself.

I personally am sick and tired of the blatant "flavour of the week" approach adopted by mass media. They only report on what is current. I can understand that this is business, and competition from other news outlets is fierce, but one needs to see an issue for what it is. Mass media attention is a powerful thing, but the intentions need to be sincere.

Now the fact that Tibet comes to the fore months before the Olympics is simply either pure honest political leverage by the West for a resolution to the issue, or as another member said, an attempt to gain the upper hand politically and socially.

We have become so polarized by mass media that we forget to keep in mind the other humanitarian issues that are quite current, and even more pressing. How about Sudan, Palestine, Zimbabwe, IRAQ, Myanmar.

This is the Olympics, and it should remain free from political interference. If people feel strongly about the issue, they should turn of their TV's. The protests seen in England and France are really unfortunate.

[edit on 10-4-2008 by Bagel]

Hello all. I'm new here, but I definitely have an opinion on this.

I am studying Buddhism with a Buddhist Monk. This man was a highly paid electrical engineer, but he walked away from all that in 1991 to become a monk.

Several points:

The monks and the Tibetan people do have every right to protest and try to make their voices heard. Since Western media has very little access to Tibet, we only get bits and pieces of the story. My teacher did explain that any of the monks who demonstrate any sort of violent behavior are NOT really Buddhist monks. Buddhism demands total non-violence. He said that the Chinese government has actually staged some of these confrontations by dressing people who are not monks in the robes of a monk. This gives them, at least in appearance, the excuse to further surpress the people of Tibet and to kill innocent monks who only want to be heard.

My teacher also explained to me that in Buddhism, everything is related to Karma. The issue of a millionaire monk does seem contradictory. BUT......it depends on the INTENT. As was explained to me, there is nothing wrong with having possessions and wanting things, as long as those things are used to benefit ourselves and others. You can have millions of dollars, but if you use it to feed and clothe the poor, build hospitals or schools, etc., then we are are not violating any of the doctrines of Buddhism. It is what is in the heart....your intent or motive....that matters. Buddhism does have an "8 Fold Path" that you are to follow if you wish to achieve enlightenment. They are like the Christian 10 Commandments, more or less. (ie: no killing, stealing, harmfulness, idle talk, lying, etc., and we are to demonstrate selflessness, helpfulness, love and kindness, forgiveness, good will, etc.) Those qualities do not describe the supposed "monks" that were engaged in violent protests, do they?

Tibet IS being surpressed by China, and they were taken over by force. Tibetans have the right to their freedom. The Buddha himself did not believe in the caste system and told his followers that many times. If the Dali Lama is a true Buddhist, which I believe that he is, he would not return to that outdated social system. I have no fear of that, and obviously neither do the people of Tibet.

I'll close with a thought. My wise teacher told me that we ALL have the ability to transform ourselves. We can change our fate....our Karma...if we follow the path of truth and hold to it. Basically, we reap what we sow.

Peace.

Lady of Shadows

reply to post by Lady of Shadows


Thank you so much!

one of the most informative posts I've read!

I really respect busshism (I have no religious preference) and was curious as to their feelings towards the caste system etc.

obviously, the old dalai lama who was accepting money from the CIA and enforced the caste system was wrong.

Would it be a stretch to say that it was a good thing he was taken out of power?
It could mean that enough time has passed for the new Dalai Lama to see the wrongs of the past, and is now time for him to rule Tibet once more.

just a thought...

If the previous Dalai Lama perpetuated the caste system, he was not following the precepts of the Buddha.

A brief history just for FYI:

Buddha's given name was Siddhatta. He was the son of a king. In order to keep him the secular world, his father the King built him three palaces-a winter palace, a summer palace and a spring palace. He gave him luxuries of all sorts. He wanted him to assume the throne eventually. Siddhatta snuck out with a servant to see what life outside the palace was like. He saw the need and suffering there. He left royal life and began 6 years of self-deprevation and meditation before he achieved enlightenment. "Buddha" means "enlightened or awakened one".

The Buddha did not believe in the caste system, and once told a priest that he did not deserve special treatment because of his "class". He taught acceptance of ALL social classes, and his aunt became the first female monk (strictly taboo before that).

He taught that we are to recognize and respect differences in people, and not impose our views and rules on others who believe differently. We are to have an open mind and accept everyone. No one is viewed as an enemy or a bad person. ALL beings have the potential to become good.

As for the Buddhist attitude towards violence, war and peace, a quote from his teachings says "Victory breeds hatred. The defeated live in pain. Happily the peaceful live giving up victory and defeat". Although history records conflicts involving the so-called Buddhist nations, these wars have been fought for economic or similar reasons. However, history does not record wars fought in the name of propagating Buddhism. Buddhism and, perhaps, Jainism are unique in this regard. His Holiness, the Dalai Lama has never suggested armed conflict to overcome the persecution and cruelty perpetrated by the Communist Chinese occupation forces. He has always advocated a peaceful and non-violent solution.

Not all Buddhists follow the non-violent path, however. A Buddhist monk, Phra Kittiwutthi of the Phra Chittipalwon College in Thailand, is noted for his extreme right-wing views. He said that it was not a breech of the first precept to kill communists. He said that if Thailand were in danger of a communist takeover, he would take up arms to protect Buddhism. This monk confessed that his nationalist feelings were more important than his Buddhist practice and that he would be willing to abandon his yellow robes to take up arms against communist invaders from Laos, Cambodia or Vietnam. By doing so, he said, he would be preserving the monarchy, the nation and the Buddhist religion. Obviously, he and others like him missed a very important point:

"From suffering comes great compassion. Great compassion makes a peaceful heart. A peaceful heart makes a peaceful person. A peaceful person makes a peaceful family. A peaceful family makes a peaceful community. A peaceful community makes a peaceful nation. A peaceful nation makes a peaceful world".

Okay, I've rambled on long enough. I have said all this simply to make the point that TRUE Buddhists do not endorse or condone violence, and even though China is wrongly surpressing them, they will continue to strive for a peaceful resolution to the situation.

Peace.

Lady of Shadows (perhaps I should add the words "long-winded" before my name?)

Here is evidence, Dalai Lama was in a meet with Chairman Mao and Banchan Lama in Beijing before he betrayed the country. Tibet is nothing but a part of China since as early as 8 century AD.

reply to post by Lady of Shadows


yes, you have a better knowledge about buddha. but you should know the tibetan buddhism is somewhat different from the buddhism in Chinese middle land. Tibetan huddhism is special in comparison with that originated in India.

Dalai is a mogolian word and was rewarded by emperor of Ming dyanasty as a title of spiritual leader of Tibetan buddhism. so tibet is part of china by then when the usa even didnt exit.

the 14th Dalai shoudnt be involved in the politics as a monk, right?.

reply to post by dudu_bear


so they met, what does that proove, stalin met hitler before world war 2, didn't mean the nazis and the russians didn't go to war a few months later!!

i watched a documentry called a year in tibet a little while ago, it was very interesting. it seemed quite balanced and left me compleatly confused. on one hand i feel the tibetians i watched in the film were being oppressed, on the other i got the immpression that they felt free. i guess it's all relitive.

here's a link to a couple of episodes seeing as your looking for some good info, this is the best i've seen, but it didn't leave me any wiser.

i'm for a free tibet, mainly because i feel they are being oppressed, for the same reason, i am for a free anywhere-else-people-don't-get-to-vote-for-their-leaders.

i think self determination is a human issue and that it is my right to hold the opinion that the people of any given country should have it regardless of weather they want it or not. give the people of tibet the chance to decide, they might decide they like the communists, they might go for the lama, they might go for option c, but let them choose.

We are all entitled to our opinions and our own views, and since none of us have lived in Tibet to see how things are firsthand, none of us can prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt. I certainly acknowledge that.

As for His Holiness being involved in politics, I don't see any conflict. He is, or was, the leader of his country and it falls on him to do his best to protect his land, his culture and his people. Buddhists believe in non-violence, but that does not translate to "door mat". In trying to negotiate Tibet's freedom, he is merely attempting to protect the people and maintain the Tibetan's culture and teachings.

The people I feel sorry for in all of this are the average Tibetan citizens. They are in the crossfire and I'm sure they only want to live their lives in peace.

I hope there is a resolution to this soon, whatever that may be.

Thanks for letting me put my 2 cents worth in.

Lady of Shadows

reply to post by 27jd


Hey 27jd, when I posted that we had already swalloed up a quite clear U2U conversation, so no, it was not directed at you.

If each of you are going through each of those threads, you will not only see different opinions about the Tibet issues, but most likely notice that ANY Chinese member is quickly being accused of being a paid agent with the sole purpose of discreditting them and/or to simply close the ears to keep on being ignorant. This also happens with non-Chinese members who try to bring up new angles and or other sides of the stories, then these members will firstly being accused of being a Chinese, a Communist, and accused of spreading propaganda. Then IF clarified of being not a Chinese, then most often you will not see much pro-Tibet supporters pay any attention to them, and continue the word crushing of the known Chinese members.

If you raise up the issue of 1 time posters to support the Chinese cause, well, case is that equally you will also find a lot of one time posters in those threads supporting Tibet and calling the OP or other Chinese of liars and agents. So are those guys maybe the internet brigade of USA?

Anyhow, my main reason is to tell you all this is to clarify my statement AND to show with all these threads how IGNORANT so many ATS members are. Similar posters in the other threads we don't see them actively posting in this thread, which is intended to understand the situation more before making up an opinion. Maybe they are too busy to "fight" in the other threads, or maybe to tired to go to yet another thread, or maybe they simply just don't want to hear something else than what is already in their mindsets. Who knows. What I know is that I see too much ignorance in a forum whose philosophy is trying to deny ignorance.


To Odessey, if I have the time I will show you a variety of different reports. Meanwhile I would suggest you continue to keep an eye on the other threads, although a lot of mud-fighting but here and there you will find some interesting sources and opinions from pro-Tibet and pro-Beijing members.


[edit on 12/4/08 by IchiNiSan]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
The real shame in all this is the violent protesters bastardizing their cause with their childish and criminal activities. They are actually doing the Chinese more good than they are the Tibetans. Childish minds commit childish acts.

Good quote

I saw a news program earlier where they were interviewing one of the leaders of the protests here in Oz. The interviewer asked what the protester thought about people assaulting the flame bearers and about wheel chair bound athletes being thrown to the ground, the protester replies that it was fantastic.

What kind of BS attitude is that?

These people are no better than the Chinese. I know people are dying and its wrong but why does that give them the right to assault/hurt/abuse people not involved with the whole Tibet atrocity.

Protesters really p*ss me off when things like this happen

Well, no time tolook into all this now, but I know what I will be doing later Great work Odessy!!

My one question to one thing you said... why do we have to pick a side?

Learn the lesson that "Nation Building" is a failure of epic proportions- we are not the world's policeman. We do not have the right to stuff our beliefs of Democracy down the throats of other countries around the globe. Even if we did, Iraq proves we cannot afford it.
--- Wayne Allyn Root
www.rootforamerica.com...

I can't argue with that. It's none of our damn business.

Here are some references （I will try to avoid any Chinese sources) for people to read:

Tibet, China and the United States: Reflections on the Tibet Question.
- Well-researched essay

The Tibetan Rebellion of 1959 and China’s Changing Relations with India and the
Soviet Union
- Harvard essay

Tibet: "Not You! You!!!"
- Addressed distorted Western media reporting

Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth
- The Tibet Myth researched

Myth and Reality: Tibet's isolation and unique religious practices have made it the focus of many Western myths.
- The Tibet Myth researched

Is the CIA behind the China-bashing Olympics protests?
- Analysis of real causes of recent unrests

The Tibet Card
- CIA/NED connections exposed

Tibet: The Roles of the CIA and the National Endowment for Democracy
- CIA/NED connections exposed

"Democratic Imperialism": Tibet, China, and the National Endowment for Democracy
- CIA/NED connections exposed

From the “Tiananmen Massacre” to the "Lhasa Protests”
- What political media reporting could cause

India wakes to a Tibetan headache
- Indian article to the Tibet issue

Tibet through Chinese eyes
- Addressing the Chinese

Using Tibet to settle scores with Chinaviewpoints
- Influences from certain powers

Crocodile tears over China's role in Tibet
- Asian view on the Tibet issue

Behind Dalai Lama's holy cloak
- Australian article about the Dailai Lama

Tibet and the trouble with unassailable national myths
- Summing up international missing information

The Dalai Lama should quit his Hollywood approach’
- Opinion of a former Free Tibet activist on the Dalai Lama

Chinese Netizens versus Western Media
- Why Chinese people will have a difficult time believing in Western media

The politics of Tibet: a 2007 reality check
- Answers why China & Dalai Lama can not agree on what kind of autonomy

Why Olympics are Tibet's best shot
- But then an Irish report show why Westerners don't understand why the gap

Tibet, China, and the west: empires of the mind
- Kenyan historical analysis on the Tibet case

Tibet: the West can use the Olympics as a weapon against Beijing
- Tibet/Olympics used as political weapons

Washington diary: China's crisis
- Why a Free tbet will never be established

Is the CIA behind the China-bashing Olympics protests?
- CIA/NED connections exposed

Tibet-Krise: kein richtiger Anlass für eine Unterstützung
- German criticizing bias reporting

[edit on 12/4/08 by IchiNiSan]

reply to post by IchiNiSan


wow, mate. you really do a wonderful job.
but i think these still can not take you out of the gov agent ranks.LOL..
any way, nice to see these efforts that must have taken you long long time and immense energy.

in my observation, media terrornism of western only can influence some grassroots rather than those independent soul. your souces prove this.

Originally posted by Odessy
lol well, pay for the trip and I'm there mate...

not everyone can just get up and go to Tibet.

your fortunate to have been, but dont think that its a common course people take.

Luckily, I can go on the internet and ask people like you who have been what you saw and felt... its called communication

[edit on 9-4-2008 by Odessy]

If I tell you that there is no oppression at all in Tibet, on the contrary
Tibetan get a lot of subsidy from China's central government to help
them promoting their life.
and only thousands of Tibetan participated in the riot, most of Tibetan
believe they are Chinese and don't want to secede from China.
Do you believe me?
Under the severe brainwash of your infamous "free media", I guess you and
your western fellowmen must regard me as liar.
So I believe the only way for you to get the truth is to be there----Tibet.

Can we really trust the Dalai lama?

-The guy who has connections with the Third Reich and has been photographed with many nazi scumbags? (just google it)

-The guy who keeps the caste system alive while this clearly defiles the teachings of The Buddha? (India & Tibet have the "evil corrupted brahmin" version of Buddhism, China and Japan the teachings as taught by The Buddha, Mahayana)

-The guy who enslaved his people in a religious dictatorship? (no progress, people in monasteries all day)

Im sorry for whats happening there but i feel China is not the BIG BAD GUY and Tibet is NOT THE GREAT GOOD GUY.

Can we really trust our western media? You should know that the west is looking for a war with China and everything they can use to agitate them will do!

Wake up!

Originally posted by Riposte

People should be allowed the right to self-determination. The Tibetans should be allowed to exercise that right.

Here here! I hope that goes for the Confederate States of America as well.

I wish Tibet success but that's as far as the US should go IMO. If they want it bad enough they'll earn independence. China has the US over a barrel by owning so much US debt. We can't do anything but watch.

hey everyone, I just got back from a trip to DC.
thanks for all the replies, Ill try and make time in the next day to read and reply to them... I'm sure you all made very interesting points!

Originally posted by drexciya
Can we really trust the Dalai lama?

-The guy who has connections with the Third Reich and has been photographed with many nazi scumbags? (just google it)

well, the pope actually WAS a nazi...

-The guy who keeps the caste system alive while this clearly defiles the teachings of The Buddha? (India & Tibet have the "evil corrupted brahmin" version of Buddhism, China and Japan the teachings as taught by The Buddha, Mahayana)

I know the old Dalai Lama had the caste sytem, but this Dalai Lama was only a child when all that happened, so perhaps things have changed?

Can we really trust our western media? You should know that the west is looking for a war with China and everything they can use to agitate them will do!

I am weary of western media. which is why I think everyone should looka t this more closely.
perhaps your right and it is all one sided lies...
but perhaps we are actually protesting for a good cause.

Originally posted by RabbitChaser
My one question to one thing you said... why do we have to pick a side?

Thanks for the reply!

While its not our duty to go out and moderate other countries, I think its good for us, the people, to educate ourselves on the issue.
When we have all the information, we will naturally make a decision as to whats right or wrong etc.
So while its not our job to change anything, people with educated opinion should be able to voice their views and perhaps influence change... or at least bring the topic to people's mind.

I mean, look at Africa and the slavery going on there.
I don't think its right, and if I can do something to help, I will.

[edit on 13-4-2008 by Odessy]

Originally posted by gs001

Do you believe me?
Under the severe brainwash of your infamous "free media", I guess you and
your western fellowmen must regard me as liar.

and it looks like you've made stereotypes yourself too friend.