Raelian Conspiracy to Overthrow Religion

reply to post by Bigwhammy


I don't really see any evidence that sex is being used as a recruitment tool. Even the above quoted text simply said that a documentary is being made that makes "allegations", but it provides no evidence. And as for "Rael's Girls", I think it's pretty nice for people to be tolerant to those who have chosen an unorthodox profession. If there is a large amount of "adult" industry people in the Raelian group, I would suspect it has more to do with the fact that the Raelians are accepting to them rather than telling them they're going to burn in Hell like most religions do, and has less to do with the fact that the Raelians are trying to get a lot of them as a way to attract more people.

And like one of the Raelians has said, you seem to be using Rael as an excuse to judge all the Raelians. Rael may be an orgiastic nympho-maniac, (or may not be, have you heard his side of the story or just taken the wife's word for it?), but that doesn't make all the Raelians as such. I think Rael is an ego-maniacal self-proclaimed messiah, but I don't think the same for the ones who follow him. If people want to follow Rael that's their prerogative. How does it hurt you?

reply to post by an3rkist

I don't really see any evidence that sex is being used as a recruitment tool.

That's because you're just playing devils advocate for your own amusement. You need to go back and read this

Former members of the Raelian cult say attractive members of the movement cruise strip clubs and bars looking for lonelyhearts who are offered free sex - and plenty of it - to recruit them into the organization.

"They work the bars and the vulnerable ones are caught," said Steve Hassan, a former Moonie who now helps "deprogram" cult members with the Boston-based organization Freedom of Thought.

Does it matter? Once proven, you would probably argue for it as an acceptable recruiting tool anyway.

I think Rael is an ego-maniacal self-proclaimed messiah, but I don't think the same for the ones who follow him. If people want to follow Rael that's their prerogative. How does it hurt you?

Well you got the first part right. But I don't buy into your moral relativism. I believe there is such a thing as right and wrong. Just because it hasn't hurt me personally doesn't mean I haven't the right or moral obligation to speak out about it. They promote ideas that are bad for society like promiscuity and pornography. They also prey on the weak members of society for profits. I am not the only one who thinks so.

Dianne Casoni, a specialist in cult groups, asserts the Raelians use various methods to control and intimidate their disciples. She's a psychologist and professor at the Department of Criminology of the University of Montreal.

www.rickross.com...

They promote false notions about God and Religion. The word Elohim comes from the Hebrew for God a spirit being. It is not describing an alien (raelian belief) or a man (Mormon belief).

Even more disturbing are their alleged attempts at human cloning.

Originally posted by ThreeNF
The last I heard was that there were 13 clones, but I really can't say for sure.

It is completely unethical and dangerous. This isn't just my opinion it's the opinion of all the leading experts. Rael founded clonaid to pursue immortality. Unfortunately the aliens forgot to give him instructions.

From Thomas H. Murray, Ph.D. Commissioner, National Bioethics Advisory Commission

Human cloning procedures would carry unacceptable risks to the clone. The procedure is far from perfected and many trials were run before Dolly was ever created. This causes the death of many clones before it. There are many risks involved including risk to an ovum donor, a nucleus donor, and a woman who receives the embryo for implantations, along with all the risks to the clone in this experimental procedure. There is also the problem with chronological age versus biological age. The clone has already gained many years by the time it was born because it was taken from adult cells. This means the clone does not have as long of a life expectancy. This is an intrusion of the clone’s right to live a long and prosperous life.

www.as.wvu.edu...

Although we did not agree on all of the ethical issues surrounding the cloning of human beings, we nonetheless unanimously concluded that given the state of science, any attempt to create a child using somatic cell nuclear transfer, whether in the public or private sector, is uncertain in its outcome, is unacceptably dangerous to the fetus, and therefore, morally unacceptable.

bioethics.georgetown.edu...




[edit on 4/28/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
you're just playing devils advocate for your own amusement.

Actually I'm defending a group of people who are perfectly within their rights to do what they do. I would do the same for you if somebody were saying you shouldn't be practicing Christianity. I don't agree with Christianity or Raelian dogma, but I believe in your right to practice your religion and their right to practice theirs. If by "devils' advocate" you mean I'm standing on the opposite side of the line than you are, then yes, but that doesn't necessarily make me or the Raelians evil or wrong.

Does it matter? Once proven, you would probably argue for it as an acceptable recruiting tool anyway.

Possibly. I'd have to think about it more. I don't think it's much worse of a tactic than what many Christians use, though. In fact I know some Christian tactics which are far worse...

Just because it hasn't hurt me personally doesn't mean I haven't the right or moral obligation to speak out about it.

You do have your right to do that, and we all have the right to speak out against you also. I have no desire to shut you up, just to try and prove you wrong about certain things.

They promote ideas that are bad for society like promiscuity and pornography.

Which society are things like promiscuity and pornography hurting? A Christian one? People's ideas of what a good society is and what a bad society is differ greatly. Christians might think society is destroying itself with pornography, whilst others might think society is destroying itself by refraining from natural instincts. My own belief is that society is destroying itself by sticking its nose in other people's personal business.

They also prey on the weak members of society for profits. I am not the only one who thinks so.

I would say the weakest members of society are targeted by Christians and all major religions: children. But brainwashing children aside, who exactly decided that these members being recruited are the "weakest" members of society? Did you decide that? What are you basing this on?

They promote false notions about God and Religion. The word Elohim comes from the Hebrew for God a spirit being. It is not describing an alien (raelian belief) or a man (Mormon belief).

You cannot prove that their ideas are false any more than you can prove that yours are true. You are now casting stones, so to speak, which can be thrown right back at you just as hard.

Even more disturbing are their alleged attempts at human cloning...

It is completely unethical and dangerous. This isn't just my opinion it's the opinion of all the leading experts. Rael founded clonaid to pursue immortality. Unfortunately the aliens forgot to give him instructions.

I don't think anyone, even the leading experts, are in any position to decide if cloning is ethical/unethical or safe/unsafe. The fact is we just don't know enough about it to be certain. Most of the reserves people have about cloning has to do with the implications it holds for religion. If man creates man it puts God into to question once again and may shake people's faith. People have a right to be scared. But I don't think anyone can say for sure yet whether it's safe/unsafe or ethical/unethical. Should anybody be doing? Yes. We'll never know until we try. That's my opinion. Should it be just anybody? No. I don't know enough about Clonaid to say whether or not they should be doing it, but when society bans one of the greatest potential technologies in human history people who should not be doing will do it. It will happen if it hasn't already.

As for his quest for immortality, I think it stems from the same place Christians got the idea of an afterlife: fear of the Unknown.

[edit on 29/4/08 by an3rkist]

Clitoraid, as some suggested, has nothing to do with sex. It's about restoring something that was barbarically removed from innocent young females. Clitoraid's effort is to raise money to build a hospital and provide the ability to preform the service free of charge since FGM patients are victims of crimes against humanity.

There is a pdf article on Clitoraid's site that outlines the details. Additionally, the following article is only a few months old if you're interested in a non-Raelian perspective.

Rael Loves Clits

Originally posted by an3rkist
Actually I'm defending a group of people who are perfectly within their rights to do what they do.

Actually they keep moving form country to country because they are not...

Cult leader Rael, who shot to media prominence in 2002 by claiming to have cloned a human being, has been denied residence in Switzerland for fear of endangering public morals, authorities said.

www.rickross.com...

The centre operating under the main Jesuit-order church in Montreal wants to back out of a leasing arrangement with the Raelians, a cult-like group that believes in liberal sex and extraterrestrials.

www.rickross.com...

South Korea today kicked out the leader of a religious sect that claimed it had produced the first cloned human, amid fears he may engage in human-cloning activities during his stay. Claude Vorilhon, the founder of the Raelian movement, was turned away after arriving at Incheon International Airport, west of Seoul, for a 17-day visit, the justice ministry said.

www.rickross.com...

Originally posted by an3rkist
Which society are things like promiscuity and pornography hurting?

Oh human society. The one that suffers from the spread of STDs and the disillusionment of illegitimate children.

Originally posted by an3rkist
who exactly decided that these members being recruited are the "weakest" members of society? Did you decide that? What are you basing this on?

The testimony of former Raelians:

Former Raelian Pete Cooke was recruited into the cult by a dancer in Montreal's Kit Kat strip bar.

"I had been divorced for 16 years. I wasn't a misfit but I had trouble making friends and I was lonely and I got sucked right in," said Cooke, who spent two years with the cult.

“There are a lot of people (at these seminars) who believe in aliens, and all these beautiful women who will have sex with you even though you’re a dork,” he said. “And that’s why most people were there.”

www.wired.com...

Originally posted by an3rkist
You cannot prove that their ideas are false any more than you can prove that yours are true.

Actually the Raelians have been busted red handed in lies about their cloning efforts. The agreed to testing and have backed out every time. They are earning a reputation as completely fraudulent among the press. And DNA evidence has put Joseph Smiths Lamenite fiction to rest once and for all.

Originally posted by an3rkist
I don't think anyone, even the leading experts, are in any position to decide if cloning is ethical/unethical or safe/unsafe.

Well by all means let's not listen to the leading scientists in the field of genetics that warn of potential harm to the human genome for many generations post clone. Lets listen to an3rkist defender of the rael.

It's not just a few isolated sources, the outcry that this a dangerous even potentially deadly cult is growing.

In my professional opinion as a cult researcher and former cult member of a similar UFO cult, the Raelian doctrine is not only ludicrous it is dangerous to anyone who becomes involved. Such groups control its members with comparable claims that require faith in the leadership’s channelings without question and not based in reasonable facts. Claims on the Raelian website (website see www.rael.org) is a distorted mixed bag of ranting, most assertions are so spiritually elementary in nature, it could be applicable to a number of religions. In my further estimation the leader is using love bombing as well as fear tactics, sexual exploitation and a ‘you’ll miss the boat if you don’t join’ mentality to manipulate vulnerable members.

Vorilhon and Boisselier’s reluctance to offer up physical proof of cloning to outsiders is typical of cultic behavior. History has a way of repeating itself as with Jim Jones of Jonestown, New Guiana. Once Jones was exposed as the imposter he was, he ordered the death of 900 members. It can, has and will happen again. The cult is at a perilous juncture that may compel Claude Vorilhon to take his members into oblivion as soon as the game is exposed for what it is. They are an apocalyptic mentality hiding under the guise of love, equality and oneness, without question. Vorilhon, or his descendants will eventually lead the members to destruction when the Rael prophecies keep passing, the Elohim don’t show up and all excuses for their delay have been exhausted.

This will possibly force Vorilhon and Boisselier to be exposed for the scheme they are perpetrating on 60,000 followers. In addition, espousing the fact that Clonaid is perpetuating a convoluted hoax to bring major funding to the cult group by taking advantage of couples who’ve lost children or people who fear and are trying to escape death by looking for eternal life.

www.maar.us...

UFO Cults with the Potential to Kill
Jim Jones of the Peoples Temple, (who by the way had an extreme interest in the UFO ideology) leader of the 1978 Jonestown sect had this written over his altar. "Never forget the past, if you forget the past you're doomed to repeat it." Are the Nuwaubians, Raelians, Scientologist or other UFO millennium-spurred groups next to repeating this type history as the group who’ve come before them? Marshal Applewhite the leader of the Heavens Gate group appeared to be a very benevolent and innocuous to the majority people who came in contact with him or his followers. Such groups, if left unchecked, will become another part of history within the ranks of cult members who have given their lives so senselessly all in the name of some of these Universal gods and alien deities.

ufo cults with potential to kill



[edit on 4/29/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Actually they keep moving form country to country because they are not...

Aside from the cloning, which they are apparently doing in a place where it is legal, I don't see them doing anything against the law or that will in any way directly effect you personally or me personally or anyone. It's their right to believe in aliens as much as it's your right to believe in God. It's their right to believe that the bonds of marriage are not sacred just as it's your right to say they are. The cloning issue is shady because as I mentioned, I wouldn't want that technology abused. As scientists have mentioned, our gene pool could get screwed up. But if it's done within the confines of the law, and is done professionally and relatively safely, I don't see anything inherently wrong with it. My only real criticism of the Raelians is that they're a cult following a self-proclaimed prophet. But...I feel that way about every religion, big or small, so...

Originally posted by an3rkist
Oh human society. The one that suffers from the spread of STDs and the disillusionment of illegitimate children.

Pornography actually doesn't cause or contribute to any of those things. If anything it helps people from having children and getting STDs because they're not out having sex with strangers. And anyway, blaming STDs on "immoral" behaviour is a Middle Ages tactic of finding a scapegoat to blame things you don't like on while simultaneously scaring people into submission and obedience. If I wanted to get into some circular philosophical logic I could just say that God created STDs so we should blame him, not promiscuity. But I think I'll just leave at my "Middle Ages" comment as I think it about sums it up.

The testimony of former Raelians:

Let me get this straight: you took that guys testimony and deduced it to "the weakest members of society" are being targeted by Raelian recruiters? First of all, where did you get "weakest members of society" from? Also, this seems to be one man trying to speak for a lot of other people. Second of all, this doesn't support your theory that they're "targeted" by the Raelians. And lastly, most people join religion because they want to be a part of something bigger than themselves, it's not just the Raelians. (That what I got out of that guy's statement.)

Actually the Raelians have been busted red handed in lies about their cloning efforts. The agreed to testing and have backed out every time. They are earning a reputation as completely fraudulent among the press. And DNA evidence has put Joseph Smiths Lamenite fiction to rest once and for all.

My statement wasn't about the cloning, it was in reference to you talking down about their beliefs in aliens. Plain and simple, you can't criticize them for it without making yourself look like a hypocrite. (Not calling you a name, just stating the logic of why you shouldn't criticize their beliefs which can neither be proved nor disproved.)

Originally posted by an3rkist
Well by all means let's not listen to the leading scientists in the field of genetics that warn of potential harm to the human genome for many generations post clone. Lets listen to an3rkist defender of the rael.

Haha! All hail an3rkist! Here I come to save the day!

Anyway, I wasn't stating that to try and convince anyone. I said "I think" and "my opinion". It was just my two cents.

[edit on 29/4/08 by an3rkist]

Originally posted by an3rkist

I don't think anyone, even the leading experts, are in any position to decide if cloning is ethical/unethical or safe/unsafe. The fact is we just don't know enough about it to be certain. Most of the reserves people have about cloning has to do with the implications it holds for religion. If man creates man it puts God into to question once again and may shake people's faith. People have a right to be scared. But I don't think anyone can say for sure yet whether it's safe/unsafe or ethical/unethical. Should anybody be doing? Yes. We'll never know until we try. That's my opinion. Should it be just anybody? No. I don't know enough about Clonaid to say whether or not they should be doing it, but when society bans one of the greatest potential technologies in human history people who should not be doing will do it. It will happen if it hasn't already.

As for his quest for immortality, I think it stems from the same place Christians got the idea of an afterlife: fear of the Unknown.

[edit on 29/4/08 by an3rkist]

The people that are against it are those people that simply don't understand it. More likely, fearful that what they've been told all their lives is wrong. I guess I'd be upset too, but face it - there is no God. Society's moral and ethics standards shouldn't be based on something fake.

Again, Rael himself isn't cloning anything or anyone, but he does support Clonaid's effort. Brigitte, the director of Clonaid, has 2 PhDs herself and I'm certain that there are other qualified SCIENTISTS as well directing the research - not Rael. Who is better qualified to experiment with such technology? The people that are against it are most likely those trained to make BigMacs at McDs. They simply aren't educated enough to understand, or educated in something completely unrelated, or they try to compare the morality of it with the morality dictated by their fake God.

Cloniad is a scam to line the pockets of Rael and Brigitte Boisselier.

Clonaid Nothing But Double Talk?

CBS Evening News/June 2, 2003

Montreal -- Remember Clonaid, the self-proclaimed "human cloning company" spawned by a UFO cult? These days, it's cashing in on its outrageous claims, reports CBS News Correspondent Jim Acosta.

Just go to Clonaid's Web site, where a human clone goes for $200,000, human eggs are $5,000 each and cell fusion devices are priced at $9,000.
Clonaid is recruiting American investors. Marketing director Thomas Kaenzig appeared at a recent venture capital conference, where he asked people to invest in Clonaid.

But there's one big problem. Clonaid is not a company. Attorney Bernard Siegel learned that from Kaenzig in a sworn deposition. "I think Clonaid is a sham," Siegel said. "I think it's a scheme to get money. I think the public should be warned." Clonaid doesn't even have a street address. When we wanted to talk to Clonaid about its status, we were asked to come to Montreal and meet Clonaid's CEO at a hotel.

"Clonaid is not a company. It's a brand name," said Clonaid CEO Brigitte Boisselier. Boisselier admitted to CBS News that she is the subject of a federal investigation. "You know I have received letters from the SEC. They are asking questions," she said.

Boisselier said she wasn't concerned about being prosecuted "because I think I have five, six lawyers working full-time on different continents to preserve everything." Boisselier said Clonaid had received more than $1 million in investment money, but she declined to be more specific.

www.rickross.com...


How about the fact the Raelians are using clonaid to prey on grieving families?

Tell that to Mark and Tracy Hunt. They invested $500,000 in Clonaid to build this lab in West Virginia that was shut down by the Food and Drug Administration. The Hunts wanted Boisselier to clone their dead son.

Of the Hunts, Boisselier said: "They bought the equipment. They kept the equipment. That's all I want to say. OK?" Attorney Bernard Siegel said Clonaid preys on the desperate with a Web site that offers hope.

www.rickross.com...

Di Martin: Showing a home video of his dead son Andrew on America's ABC network, the city councillor, Mark Hunt, tries to explain why he teamed up with Brigitte Boisselier.

Mark Hunt: Our child died when he was 10-1/2 months old. He is never going to have an opportunity to drive a car, he's never going to go to school, he's never going to enjoy music, that child was cheated out of all that. His entire life. So the least we can do for him is try to reproduce something from his body that will give his genetic makeup, his DNA a chance, to go on.

Di Martin: Not long after setting up a lab for Dr Boisselier in the sleepy rural town of Nitro, West Virginia, Mark Hunt and his wife Tracy broke off with the French scientist, accusing her of being more interested in promoting her religion than concentrating on the science.

www.abc.net.au...







[edit on 4/29/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Clonaid is trying to defraud the Gay community as well, with promises of cloned children. To date clonaid has never proven any of their claims of successful cloning.

Di Martin: In his lighting shop in downtown Manhattan, human cloning activist Randy Wicker knows all about the vulnerability of people seeking to clone themselves or their relatives. They contact him in their hundreds.

Randy Wicker: Well this is an art deco lighting shop, we're located in West Village. I've been here since 1974 and I'm 64 years old in a couple of weeks, and I'm trying to go out of business now because I'm more interested in cloning and activism.

Di Martin: Randy Wicker want to clone himself, but not with the Raelians.

Randy Wicker: Well at the top of the fraud list you have the Raelians, who since 1997 have been offering to clone people for $200,000 at the Bahamian facilities which they never had. They had a Grand Jury investigation in Syracuse, New York, where they were being charged with attempted internet fraud for advertising services for years that they could clone you for a certain amount of money. They went to San Francisco, this is where I really went over the edge, saying they could clone children, they could combine the genes of two members of the same sex. So they were trying to defraud the gay community, which is my community.

www.abc.net.au...

Aliens Adored: Rael's UFO Religion

Palmer, a sociologist specializing in NRMs (New Religious Movements, known to some as cults), spent approximately ten years in close contact with the Raelians. She was able to establish a great deal of trust among the leadership (particularly at first), and as a result she has almost unprecedented knowledge of the history and inner workings of the movement. This book is absolutely fascinating. Palmer actually has quite a bit of sympathy for the Raelians, noting that many of the accusations by ex-members are untrue or appear to be the result of the actions of individuals, rather than endemic to the movement as a whole. There were even things I could get on board with, philosophically -- for example, while the Raelians are very much about "free love," the official "doctrine" is that if a Raelian makes repeated unwanted sexual advances on another individual, they are ejected from the movement for seven years.

Nice business the Raelians are in; defrauding grieving families...

Cloned Tot Cult are Con Artists Exclusive: Distraught couple paid £300,000 for second 'son'

Sunday Mail/December 29, 2002
By Lorna Hughes

A couple who gave £300,000 to the cult at the centre of the cloned baby scandal have branded them fraudsters.

Mark and Tracey Hunt donated the cash to set up a secret laboratory to clone their baby son, who died after a heart operation.

But they stopped the experiment by controversial company Cloneaid after warnings from the US government.

At first lawyer Mark, 42, believed scientist Brigitte Boisselier's claims that her company could make a replica of his 10-month- old son Andrew from frozen cells taken from him before he died.

French-born Boisselier, who lives in Las Vegas, provoked an outcry last week when she claimed Cloneaid had produced the world's first cloned baby.

She revealed the Hunt project to the American media, but last night the couple claimed Cloneaid had only got as far as examining their dead son's DNA.

The West Virginia lawman and Democrat politician branded Boisselier a "press hog" and claimed he's lost faith in her.

A friend of the couple said: "They were conned by this woman when they were at their lowest ebb. Despite her claims, they achieved next to nothing at the laboratory.

"They now believe her claims are nothing more than a slick con devised to focus attention on the Raelian cult."

Cloneaid is linked to the cult, who believe cloning is the route to mankind's salvation. Boisselier is a Raelian `bishop'.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Lets see sensual meditation, porn stars, exotic dancers, clitoraid, his own wifes testimony to orgies in the house... sorry it's no very believable that sex isn't the major recruitment tool.

There's a whole slew of articles...

Now, rare video footage of the group taken at one of its Las Vegas seminars has been spun into an as-yet-unreleased documentary that brings a fresh, critical slant to the Raelians — replete with allegations that the sect uses sex as a recruitment tool, targeting people most likely to sympathize with its message that aliens populated the world: “Trekkies and whatnot,” explained Abdullah Hashem, who taped the group in May as part of a broader, personal investigation of the group.

“There are a lot of people (at these seminars) who believe in aliens, and all these beautiful women who will have sex with you even though you’re a dork,” he said. “And that’s why most people were there.”
.....

But the group really caught his attention after he discovered that one of the Raelian commandments is to give 1 percent of your annual income to help Vorilhon deliver his message. Hashem says it was then that he suspected the group was a scam.

www.wired.com...

In response to the linked article above (which is 100% crap), the following is the Raelian Movement's response to Hashem and McGowen. Poor silly boys As Sage mentioned in the wired article, "We're very proud of what goes on. We have nothing to hide. The footage taken at the seminar is all great as far as I'm concerned." Unfortunately, Hashem & McGowen and trying to distort that information and hopefully they will pay for that mistake.

raelianews.org...

The Raelian Movement has filed Federal RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) Lawsuit against both Hashem and McGowen, and their front companies in a California Federal Court for:“…Fraud, disparagement, threats, extortion, blackmail, damage, and conversion of property of plaintiff and to file false allegations of criminality against plaintiff for profit based on an overall criminal structure as set forth below…” RICO charges are extremely serious and we would not file this case unless we were sure.

Rael also has a history of filing and losing frivolous lawsuits...

Welcome to real world, judge tells head Raelian

Suit against columnist thrown out. With his provocative attacks on Christians, Jews, Vorhilon told he's not above criticism

When laughing him off as a "scatterbrained swindler" and a "clown," an Ottawa columnist did not libel the man known as Rael, a Quebec Superior Court has ruled.

Dismissing an $85,000 damage suit against columnist Denis Gratton and Le Droit newspaper, Justice Maurice Larame said arguments by Claude Vorhilon, who calls himself Rael, are "airy-fairy."

"It is strange, to say the least, that Rael should be offended by terms used about him when they are similar to those he uses when he judges ... followers of the Jewish and Christian religions," the judge wrote in his June 21 ruling.

www.rickross.com...



actually the claims of that article is backed up by testimony of other raelian sex cult members like Pete Cooke after they have been deprogrammed by professional therapists.

Former members of the Raelian cult say attractive members of the movement cruise strip clubs and bars looking for lonelyhearts who are offered free sex - and plenty of it - to recruit them into the organization.

"They work the bars and the vulnerable ones are caught," said Steve Hassan, a former Moonie who now helps "deprogram" cult members with the Boston-based organization Freedom of Thought.

"They use free sexuality as inducement and recruiting."

Former Raelian Pete Cooke was recruited into the cult by a dancer in Montreal's Kit Kat strip bar.

"I had been divorced for 16 years. I wasn't a misfit but I had trouble making friends and I was lonely and I got sucked right in," said Cooke, who spent two years with the cult.

The Quebec-based religion, headed by former journalist and race car driver Claude Vorilhon - who is known as Rael - believes humans were cloned by aliens.

Cooke, who has been out of the cult for five years and now lives north of Toronto, believes in UFOs.

"It wouldn't be such a bad place if you'd leave all the sex out. I'd never go back because of the sexual aspect," he said.

"I didn't like all the opening of genitals or all the focusing on the anus."

www.rickross.com...






[edit on 5/8/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to

It is completely unethical and dangerous. This isn't just my opinion it's the opinion of all the leading experts. Rael founded clonaid to pursue immortality. Unfortunately the aliens forgot to give him instructions.

From Thomas H. Murray, Ph.D. Commissioner, National Bioethics Advisory Commission

Human cloning procedures would carry unacceptable risks to the clone. The procedure is far from perfected and many trials were run before Dolly was ever created. This causes the death of many clones before it. There are many risks involved including risk to an ovum donor, a nucleus donor, and a woman who receives the embryo for implantations, along with all the risks to the clone in this experimental procedure. There is also the problem with chronological age versus biological age. The clone has already gained many years by the time it was born because it was taken from adult cells. This means the clone does not have as long of a life expectancy. This is an intrusion of the clone’s right to live a long and prosperous life.

www.as.wvu.edu...

Although we did not agree on all of the ethical issues surrounding the cloning of human beings, we nonetheless unanimously concluded that given the state of science, any attempt to create a child using somatic cell nuclear transfer, whether in the public or private sector, is uncertain in its outcome, is unacceptably dangerous to the fetus, and therefore, morally unacceptable.

bioethics.georgetown.edu...

[edit on 4/28/2008 by Bigwhammy]

All is a strong qualifying word. The only person you are quoting here is Murray - that implies all?

Take a look at the following article - maybe these people should be taken off your "all" list. It's a good read and you'll see that not everyone thinks that cloning is unethical or dangerous. In reality, what any of us here think about cloning doesn't really matter - unless of course you are a scientist actively working in that field. It's going to happen (or should I say, already has happened?) whether we like it or not.

Declaration in Defense of Cloning and the Integrity of Scientific Research

reply to post by ThreeNF


Unsafe unethical human cloning not withstanding... The Raelian moneymaking scam clonaid has larger ethical grievances like scaming grieving families for profit

Well, being a Raelian myself, I forced myself to read through this 'attempted' 14 page smear campaign. Although, I must admit it is the same old tiresome 'song and dance' that I have encountered hundreds of times.
'Predictable' sums it up quite well.

With that being said, I realise that many of you reading this thread are hearing about the Raelian Movement for the first time, so
I still consider it good publicity.

There will always be people passionately scrutinizing us, usually in the name of god or morality or both, until humanity's conciousness has matured enough for theism (especially organised theistic doctrines based on mysticism) to simply fade away. We have a long way to go, as this thread clearly illustrates, and may never make it there, but then again, we just might. We will never know if we don't try now will we?

Someone said "You can never convince anyone of anything, no matter how hard you try. They can only rationally decide for themselves based on logical thinking and life experience."

Well, I decided on my own, no one was here to 'brainwash' me, I finally found something that makes sense to me after 35 years of life.
I'm proud to be a Raelian, it feels good to be alive in this universe, at this very moment, to tell you this.
Above all else, I hope you find whatever gives you happiness and peace of mind.

Peace.
-Tattoo1377

reply to post by ThreeNF
Rael only explained those parts in the Bible which seemed to have hidden technological similarity. But he never new that the fish that swallowed Jonah was a herbivorous and that Jonah lived there because there were seaweeds available. It couldn't be a submarine! for more info... go to www.esoriano.wordpress.com and read the article "The Fish That Swallowed Jonah"

Good for them,I suppose one religious cult is just as feasible as another(whether its cloned aliens or benevolent zombies).
As for them engaging in over zealous active recruitment,haven´t the two abrahamic sects islam and christianity got that down to a fine art already?

try to read all the books that rael wrote..maybe you'll understand...
peace to all...