Raelian Conspiracy to Overthrow Religion

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by an3rkist

 

You miss the point of innocence, if there never was a sin there would be no need for knowledge of it. I am ignorant of the best way to torture somebody and I am glad for it. And the sin wasn't about "knowing" it was disobeying the one rule God gave.

It seems evil to me for beings to be created that don't have a choice. He created Adam and Eve to be ignorant to their choices and forbade them to partake of fruit which would allow them to make a choice, as opposed to being drones blindly obeying their Creator. This thing you call "innocence" is not something I would want to be a part of. I for one like being able to decide for myself what's right and what's wrong. I don't like being a robot...

The true church of Christ is not an orgainization but a body of believers more like an organism. All united by the Holy Spirit.

If there is a true church of Christ, I would definitely agree with this statement. You sure leave a lot of people out, though...

Its something you'll not find in cults like mormonism or raelianism which have similar beliefs and histories of deviant sex practices.

Do you even know anything about Mormonism? How can you even compare the two? I rarely defend Mormonism, but their beliefs have almost nothing in common with the Raelians! You sure are quick to cast stones and make accusations about people you obviously know nothing about.

There own stances and protests against the church prove they are conspiring.

So because they're against the immoral practices of the Roman Catholic church they're conspirators? I thought the Roman Catholic church was an abomination of true Christianity? Why would you care if they're against the Church? I thought you were, too?

Sounds like you're about ready to sign up for a good brain scrub by rael... Hope you have a donation ready or they probably won't be too interested.

I agree with you that it's a cult, and hence it's not my bag of chips. If I wanted a good "brain scrub" and to be pressured into making donations I would just go join a Christian congregation.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by an3rkist

 

You miss the point of innocence, if there never was a sin there would be no need for knowledge of it. I am ignorant of the best way to torture somebody and I am glad for it. And the sin wasn't about "knowing" it was disobeying the one rule God gave.

I get real rewards for my relationship with God. And there is no doubt whatsoever to me millions of others that he exists. You will never be able to discern the truth with that self sufficient attitude. The true church of Christ is not an orgainization but a body of believers more like an organism. All united by the Holy Spirit.

Its something you'll not find in cults like mormonism or raelianism which have similar beliefs and histories of deviant sex practices.

Raelians recruit people with sex and make it everyones business by advertising using sexual suggestions. They appeal to the morally weak members of society. There own stances and protests against the church prove they are conspiring. And if they actively trying to clone humans as they claim they need to be stopped. Its dangerous for the human race.

Sounds like you're about ready to sign up for a good brain scrub by rael... Hope you have a donation ready or they probably won't be too interested.

[edit on 4/28/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Raelians do not recruit people with sex. How can I say that? Because I've actually been there!! How many Raelian gatherings have you been too? How can you consciously spout off things as facts, when you have never been to any Raelian function or interacted with any member in any way? All that tells me is that you're an idiot, but that was apparent from the very first post. I'd have more respect for what you are saying if you had actually gone to a seminar and based your opinion on something real, rather than something fake like your "God". The real brain scrubs are those churches that people go to every Sunday and it is those "GOD" believing people that are dangerous to the human race.

Take the Blasphemy Challenge. There is NO GOD!! Let me say that again, I like the sound of it. There is NO GOD!!

reply to post by ThreeNF

All that tells me is that you're an idiot

No you are now revealing your true character. I see when the facts are indisputable you start using personal insults...

ATS T&C: "Don't call people names or otherwise insult them. "

Raelians do not recruit people with sex.

Just because you went to few gatherings doesn't mean they don't do it. They are notorious for it.

Sex used to recruit Raelians

Members cruise bars, strip clubs
The Edmonton Sun/October 11, 2003
By Kevin Connor

Former members of the Raelian cult say attractive members of the movement cruise strip clubs and bars looking for lonelyhearts who are offered free sex - and plenty of it - to recruit them into the organization.

"They work the bars and the vulnerable ones are caught," said Steve Hassan, a former Moonie who now helps "deprogram" cult members with the Boston-based organization Freedom of Thought.

"They use free sexuality as inducement and recruiting."

Former Raelian Pete Cooke was recruited into the cult by a dancer in Montreal's Kit Kat strip bar.

"I had been divorced for 16 years. I wasn't a misfit but I had trouble making friends and I was lonely and I got sucked right in," said Cooke, who spent two years with the cult.

The Quebec-based religion, headed by former journalist and race car driver Claude Vorilhon - who is known as Rael - believes humans were cloned by aliens.

Cooke, who has been out of the cult for five years and now lives north of Toronto, believes in UFOs.

"It wouldn't be such a bad place if you'd leave all the sex out. I'd never go back because of the sexual aspect," he said.

www.rickross.com...

Note below.... "a disproportionate number of Ralians come from the exotic-dance community." ahem

A gorgeous group of alien spawn hones a hedonistic hankering for sex.

I enter the auditorium and sit down next to a tall blond woman, who is outfitted with a white halter top, a furry white purse and tight white pants. She turns to me, fixes me with baby blue eyes as round as saucers and asks, in heavily accented French, where I first heard the message. "Boulevard Saint-Laurent," I deadpan, the Montreal street where I was handed a pamphlet for tonight's conference on human cloning by a Ralian on roller blades a few weeks ago. Ivana, as she's called, tells me she heard the message from her brother, and that she left her native Warsaw, Poland, to be near other Ralians in northern France. I ask her if she lives in a community, but she shakes her head: "We're free to come and go as we please, you know."

Ivana tells me she moved to Quebec about five months ago to be near Ral himself and is making her living as a dancer. This being Montreal, one of the world's leading dance capitals, I reflexively ask her what troupe she's with. "No," she says, looking at me as though I was a bit of a dunce. "I dance in the clubs." Riiight: I'd heard that a disproportionate number of Ralians come from the exotic-dance community. Every few minutes, Ivana interrupts our conversation to hiss ineffectually at a toddler in a print dress running rampant in the aisles: "Isis!"

[edit on 4/28/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Take the Blasphemy Challenge. There is NO GOD!! Let me say that again, I like the sound of it. There is NO GOD!!

There is a God. There is a God!! Let me say that again, I like the sound of it. There is a God!!
Wow you are right, that does sound good. What makes you KNOW that there is no God? What do you think holds everything in this universe together every second of every day? Certainly not coincidence I can tell youy that. The way I see it,,,, if there is no God and no afterlife (Heaven) then what do we exist for? We just live these few years here on Earth and then die and cease to exist? That makes no sense to me. We have to exist for something.

Rael is paranoid as well. He thinks George Bush is trying to kill him.

Raelian Nation angels poised to die for prophet

Calgary Sun/October 7, 2003
By Brigitte McCann

Possible Dangers

The Raelian movement already shows signs of going off the rails which brings to mind the deaths of 10 members of the Order of the Sun Temple in Quebec in the 1990s. That's the opinion of Dianne Casoni, a renowned psychologist and criminologist who specializes in religious sects, after reviewing material gathered by Sun Media. "Generally, it's the mental health and the moral judgment of the leader that's the greatest protection against loss of control," says the University of Montreal professor.

Rael is already showing signs of paranoia anxiety -- security guards are omnipresent and he has written about his fear of assassination. "What worries me the most is when conspiracy theories develop," Casoni explains. "The group says to itself, 'We're in danger, we have to protect ourselves,' and sometimes it becomes, 'We have to fight back' and that's when things can go on the skids." She recalls that religious cult leader Jim Jones constantly obliged his disciples to move before his paranoia resulted in the collective suicide of 912 members of his sect, the Temple of the People, in Guyana in 1978.

Another disturbing fact is Claude Vorilhon, Rael, is tightening his hold over his disciples more and more. The creation of the Order of the Angels, the women in his service, is an example. "From year to year we see an increase in the assertion of Rael's authority," says Alain Bouchard, a sociologist observing the Raelian movement. "He's really starting to take himself more seriously," he adds. "His ego's growing."

"It worries me to see that there's a growth in the level of control and Continued from previous page unreasonable demands," says Mike Kropveld, director of Info-Sect. Claude Vorilhon himself admitted the potential danger of a movement going in the wrong direction, following the first collective suicides of Sun Temple in 1994.

"No one is protected from a loss of control," he told Le Journal de Montreal at the time. "Jesus said: 'Love one another' and Catholicism produced the Inquisition. We shouldn't be shocked by anything then." Seventy-four members of the Order of the Sun Temple were killed or committed suicide in three countries from 1994 to 1997. Ten died in Quebec.

For now, the effects on the members of the leader's paranoia of the leader is limited to the sort of feelings you'd get from a horror film, according to Bouchard. "The members are afraid; it's created a thrill and a cohesion in the group so everyone is satisfied," he says. "When they begin to construct bunkers, that's when we should be worried."

www.rickross.com...

[edit on 4/28/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by Bigwhammy


[snip] First, how would you know how many gatherings I've been to? Second, gatherings take place in over 80 countries across the world. Why don't you gather data and testimonies from each of those countries and present your findings here, rather than basing your evidence on random articles on the net? I think you'll quickly find that what your presenting to be fact is actually fiction. One incident doesn't imply the truth in general. If we went with that genius logic, then we could say that Christianity and Catholicism is all about pedophilia because of priests raping little boys. Would that be fair? Of course not!

[snip]

Moderator Note:
Courtesy Is Mandatory

Civility and Decorum are expected.



[edit on 28-4-2008 by dbates]

reply to post by ThreeNF

You're a complete idiot.

Can't stand the facts so insults again... brainwashing must be breaking down from the stress of truth.

One incident doesn't imply the truth in general

One incident Rael openly endorses promiscuity and orgies. It goes to character. Of course that they use sex as a recruiting tool. They even use porn stars.

Originally posted by Christian Voice

Take the Blasphemy Challenge. There is NO GOD!! Let me say that again, I like the sound of it. There is NO GOD!!

There is a God. There is a God!! Let me say that again, I like the sound of it. There is a God!!
Wow you are right, that does sound good. What makes you KNOW that there is no God? What do you think holds everything in this universe together every second of every day? Certainly not coincidence I can tell youy that. The way I see it,,,, if there is no God and no afterlife (Heaven) then what do we exist for? We just live these few years here on Earth and then die and cease to exist? That makes no sense to me. We have to exist for something.

Because I haven't seen some all powerful, mystical being present them self to me and claim they are God. However, I do follow the science everyday that points to man one day creating life himself, including a human from scratch. When that happens, you'd have to be quite stupid not to question our origin and ask whether or not it was possible that maybe we were created by people just like us.

The reason why it doesn't make sense to some people is because they aren't educated or open minded enough to understand. They simply don't allow themselves to think differently or question anything. They've been conditioned since birth to believe what they believe and for some people it's quite hard to break those "neuron" connections, especially when it's socially acceptable. And just because something is socially acceptable doesn't make it right or good.

Throughout this series, our three experts on cult organizations will provide their views on what our journalists have discovered. They will analyse the activities, attitude and philosophy of the Raelian movement, as revealed by our investigation.

Dianne Casoni, a specialist in cult groups, asserts the Raelians use various methods to control and intimidate their disciples. She's a psychologist and professor at the Department of Criminology of the University of Montreal.

Alain Bouchard, an expert on the Raelian movement, says the organization needs scientific assertions, be they true or false, to establish its credibility in the eyes of the public and of its disciples. He teaches religious studies at Laval University in Quebec City.

Finally, Sun Media met with Mike Kropveld, director of Info-Cult, an organization focused on sensitizing the community to cult thinking.

According to Kropveld, Rael uses provocation to maintain the cohesion of his group.

www.rickross.com...

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by ThreeNF

 

You're a complete idiot.

Can't stand the facts so insults again... brainwashing must be breaking down from the stress of truth.

One incident doesn't imply the truth in general

One incident

Rael openly endorses promiscuity and orgies. It goes to character. Of course that they use sex as a recruiting tool. They even use porn stars.

Hmm, then I must have missed the orgy at the last seminar - damn!. Although if one were to take place I wouldn't complain, but "sigh" one didn't happen that entire week. Do you REALLY want to know what happened that week? You just continue to make yourself look like an idiot by taking random articles off the net and suggesting what the movement is about based on them. [snip]

Off-topic comments removed

[edit on 28-4-2008 by dbates]

reply to post by ThreeNF


I know it's difficult when the wall of denial starts to crumble...

But you can use that anger for a positive. Here's a Book for you to check out...

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by ThreeNF

 

I know it's difficult when the wall of denial starts to crumble...

But you can use that anger for a positive. Here's a Book for you to check out...

Right back at you. Here is a recommendation for you and your "cult". Of course, this happens at every church, correct? Where do I sign up? See, I can post random trash talking articles too!

www.amazon.com...

In a shocking, graphic expose, New Orleans journalist Berry documents scores of cases of sexual abuse of boys by Roman Catholic priests across the U.S. Tracking this tragic story from Louisiana to Washington, D.C., and then to New York, Berry reports that most child-molesting priests are simply reassigned to a different parish. He accuses the Catholic bishops of evasion and cover-up, compounded by moral myopia and an appalling indifference to the victims of pedophilia. He also cites cases of women seduced and discarded by their pastors. Further, Berry probes the homophobia within a clerical culture which, he maintains, allows ample freedom to gay clergy provided they keep their sexual orientation a secret. He describes the organized movements of women and men within the Church who are challenging the bishops' silence. Berry ends with a plea to abolish mandatory celibacy for priests. Greeley, in his foreword, notes that sexual abuse "may be the greatest scandal in the history of religion in America."

[edit on 28-4-2008 by ThreeNF]

[edit on 28-4-2008 by ThreeNF]

Alright, enough of the bickering, insults, etc.

Please, back on topic and maintain the discussion in a civil manner.

Thanks,

I'm not catholic. You mentioned your wife is though, huh? However the difference is obvious, the Catholic church doesn't promote promiscuity, they encourage abstinence. Catholics don't use porn stars to promote their services. Raels own ex wife testified he subjected his own children to witnessing nude adults roaming in their home. He is your leader, that's his character.

Cult:

A. First Element - Theological Deviation. This is the one characteristic that is always present. All Institutionalized Heresies take major orthodox Christian doctrines (nature of God, person of Christ, why He came, the Trinity, sin, etc.) and make them minor, or deny them althogether. Thus, they undercut the very foundations of historic Christianity.


B. Second Element - Sociological Aspects. Often these groups manifest extreme authoritarian patterns, unusual lifestyle characteristics, forced conformity patterns, subtle mechanisms to create intense loyalty and commitment to the organization or leader, elitism, etc. These groups are usually culture rejecting in their approach.


C. Third Element - Sensationalistic Accounts. These are the journalistic reports in the popular press that focus upon the dramatic and often bizarre aspects.

www.neirr.org...

Lets see in wikis list of cults: International Raelian Movement

And the Watchman Fellowship’s 2001 Index of Cults:Raelian Religion

The List Universe top ten cults: 5. Raëlism
listverse.com...

And the Cults R Us Killer Cult List:

Killer cults tend to be led by charismatic megalomaniacs who pit themselves and their churches against the rest of the world. They are usually apocalyptic visionaries drunk with lust and power that have physical and sexual control over their followers. In most cases their beliefs stem from twisted interpretations of established doctrines. These self-proclaimed divinities usually amass a large arsenal of weapons before bringing forth their personal day of reckoning. The cults are listed according to number of kills associated with them.

The Raelian Cult (+1) Though not necessarily a killer cult yet, the alien-worshipping Raelian Cult found a spot in the Cult's r Us Hit List when their company, Clonaid, announced it had created a healthy baby girl cloned from her 31-year-old mother.

www.mayhem.net...

The New Zealand List of Cults has a red "danger" flag on Raelians
www.cults.co.nz...

The New England Institue of Religious Research lists it as a cult:
www.neirr.org...

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
I'm not catholic. You mentioned your wife is though, huh? However the difference is obvious, the Catholic church doesn't promote promiscuity, they encourage abstinence. Catholics don't use porn stars to promote their services. Raels own ex wife testified he subjected his own children to witnessing nude adults roaming in their home. He is your leader, that's his character.

Catholics, Christians - what's the difference? Aren't they all the same? By going to church, you are saying that you support pedophilia. That's based on the logic you have used throughout this thread.

[edit on 28-4-2008 by ThreeNF]

Originally posted by elevatedone
Alright, enough of the bickering, insults, etc.

Please, back on topic and maintain the discussion in a civil manner.

Thanks,

Don't worry, I'm not going to last here much longer.

Originally posted by ThreeNF
Raelians do not recruit people with sex.

Rael's Girls is an Atheist Based website that seeks to share views of hope by reaching out in a non-judgmental way to those who wish to be a part of the Sex Industry.

www.raelsgirls.com...

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

Originally posted by ThreeNF
Raelians do not recruit people with sex.

Rael's Girls is an Atheist Based website that seeks to share views of hope by reaching out in a non-judgmental way to those who wish to be a part of the Sex Industry.

www.raelsgirls.com...

That has nothing to do with recruiting people into the movement. These are Raelian women who support those that make a choice to work in the sex industry. I can tell you that there are MANY women in the movement that have nothing to do with the sex industry. Once again, you are using a small sample to judge the entire population.

Lets see sensual meditation, porn stars, exotic dancers, clitoraid, his own wifes testimony to orgies in the house... sorry it's no very believable that sex isn't the major recruitment tool.

There's a whole slew of articles...

Now, rare video footage of the group taken at one of its Las Vegas seminars has been spun into an as-yet-unreleased documentary that brings a fresh, critical slant to the Raelians — replete with allegations that the sect uses sex as a recruitment tool, targeting people most likely to sympathize with its message that aliens populated the world: “Trekkies and whatnot,” explained Abdullah Hashem, who taped the group in May as part of a broader, personal investigation of the group.

“There are a lot of people (at these seminars) who believe in aliens, and all these beautiful women who will have sex with you even though you’re a dork,” he said. “And that’s why most people were there.”
.....

But the group really caught his attention after he discovered that one of the Raelian commandments is to give 1 percent of your annual income to help Vorilhon deliver his message. Hashem says it was then that he suspected the group was a scam.

www.wired.com...