Scientific Evidence Of Life On Mars!! Why is NASA Obfuscating The Truth?

Hi ArMaP! I suggest you have a look Here….


Evidence of WATER flow on Mars.
Courtesy: MSSS

But how do we know this is water? The context is the key. Gullies indicate the flow of a liquid. Dust avalanches do occur on Mars, but not anywhere near these gullies. The morphology (shape) is important too. See how the gully breaks up as it flows down the slope? That also indicates a fluid flow. Finally, the color is an indicator, too. The light color is difficult to make on Mars. In trenches, most places where the surface dust is disturbed, and impact craters, the underlying layers are almost always dark. This indicates a different process. Also, numerical calculations using models indicate that whatever caused these gullies flowed like water, not like dust or rocks.

Well, we’ve known of frozen water on Mars for decades, and we know there was activity in the past. These new observations indicate that things are happening on Mars now, within the past few years. And whatever it is that’s happening, it’s releasing water onto the surface, which in turn means that there is water just below the surface of Mars, at least in some places.
www.badastronomy.com...

So as you said, the transition directly from ice to vapor may be happening at some places. But in others, as correctly mentioned by wood lock, ice melts into liquid water before evaporating. And this could occur in areas of higher pressure.

Cheers!

Originally posted by Comatose
Just about the Nasa Mars landscape images... What process did you use to alter the colours?

I do believe you get a more accurate result by using the "auto levels" feature in Photoshop.

I think the red hue in the original Nasa photo is from the lighting conditions, not from tampering. Try running one of your own "washed out" images from home through the same process.

[edit on 5-4-2008 by Comatose]

True colour images of Mars are obtained with a colour filter setting of L4L5L5L5L6. Now there are plenty of test images of the Pancam calibration unit (full frame) that show the response of the colour swatches, the most important of which is the blue swatch....which is blue! This immediatly destroys the argument by the defenders of NASA who state that the environment on Mars means the colour response of the blue dye is affected so that it will not show up as blue. Clearly utter bull.... especially since the blue tape on the white cabling mysteriously changes colour as well and I suspect that that is blue plastic tape!

So you now need to find a panoramic image of Mars taken with filters L4L5L5L5L6 that also captures the colour swatch to ensure that the balance of the view is correct. Guess what there are a few that escaped from NASA and guess what again the colour swatch (blue bit) is NOT blue. This proves beyond all reasonable doubt that NASA has been modifying the colours.

If you correctly apply the filter information to the panormaic images, Mars has a Blue sky with a slightly brown-grey soil and GREY rocks.

NASA has hung itself with its own calibration methods but they will never ever admit to it. In doing so this opens up the proverbial can of worms. All the images from the past have to be reworked. New theories developed (and thus broken careers for the old theory supporters) to explain blue sky on Mars. Then the questions will go beyond Mars : what other photographic information has been falsified......hmmmm.

off tpoic

wow you have your own forum

finanly your talent has ben recognised

Originally posted by Dark_Ace
off tpoic. wow you have your own forum. finanly your talent has ben recognised

Thanks Dark_Ace! Welcome!

reply to post by malcr


Good riposte malcr, to those who think NASA is above board! Now someone asked why would NASA want to fudge things? They stand to gain by way of funding if they declare that life exists on Mars.

This couldn't be farther from the truth. It should be realized that the consequences of a disclosure of life on an extra terrestrial body on the human psyche would be profound with probable adverse consequences. And this the powers that be don't want to happen.

But for how long can this poodle faking by NASA go on?

reply to post by mikesingh


Sorry Mike, I disagree. It might upset a few religious fundamentalist but most people already expect to find life on other worlds .... I certainly cannot see any purpose in a conspiracy to hide such knowledge.

And anyway I fail to see why NASA and ESA would fight so hard for funding, develop technologies, send all these probes into space, in order to prove there is life on other worlds, all in the knowledge that that proof will be censored... There must be some very bitter and angry scientists out there is this is true.

I remain adamant that the truth is far more prosaic - we are free to claim that circumstantial evidence is proof, whereas scientists prefer to be absolutely sure before making such a monumental annoucement. Hence what we think is proof of life, NASA etal also think is proof of life. But none of us can actually say for sure.

Personally I doubt we'll know until we send men to Mars.


Edit: forgot to say - congrats on getting your own forum! Well deserved (even if I tend to disagree with you more often than not!)

[edit on 10-4-2008 by Essan]

Originally posted by Woodlock
But you said;
"your" picture?
Thee picture.
You've never seen a "picture" like mine, like this pic. I said "pic". Pic means; take a good look.

I said "your" picture for two reasons: 1 - It was you who posted it; 2 - You did not take the photo.
So, using the word your to identify that I was talking about the image you posted and using it between double quotes to show that the image is not really yours, I use just identifying the image in the shortest way I could.

Whatever I may have gained I lost with this long explanation.

This pic is a photo made with a camera that comes from scientific correct data. You haven't seen a photograph, a digital image photograph like this. If you knew the work put it to this !?# get on my bad side? will u?

Once more, I am not sure if I am understanding what you say. I know that those images are from scientific data, and I know that they are not presented in JPEG format. I don't know what work you put to it and I was not disregarding it; even if you had just found that image, the act of posting it to back up your ideas would be enough for me to give you credit for it.

But I don't understand what do you mean by "You haven't seen a photograph, a digital image photograph like this."

Tell me this. Just what do you see when you see all that white at the bottom of the photo.

I see what looks like fog or low clouds.

You see what you want to see. You can deny my presumptions if you like. It's not my fault you don't add up the facts.

I don't deny anything, I only doubt it.

Don't feel bad.

I don't

Nobody knows this is real data. Go look at Malin's.

Why do you say that? Is from an official source, so I suppose it's real data.

reply to post by ArMaP


ArMap
You compartmentalize each sentence or sentences. You don't see a larger picture.
The white stuff!
The white cover that is in the low 1/4 of the photo.
See! you don't see!
You see fog or cloud? what else?
You know it's the stuff the permanent poler cap is made from (which this is very close it).

And on this photo
The processing of the raw data takes not hours, not weeks MONTHS.
Did you look at Dr. Malin's photos? His the person in charge of the MARCIA camera. Look at the work he put out to the public. It sucks, always has. His work sucks. Plan and simple. You think I got this image from some MARCIA web site, HA. shows what you know.

You're in the deep-end ArMap better turn around.

reply to post by Woodlock


As I said before, I can not be sure if I understand what you mean.

Probably because I am not used to real English, used by people who talk it every day. I learnt English just by listening to what people said on the movies and I never speak it, so my understanding is limited to plain, simple English.

About the photo, first you said to look to the upper third of the photo, then you said that is the lower 1/4 of the photo. I did not noticed that you were talking, now, about the bottom of the photo. That area looks covered in frost.

And yes, I know who Dr. Malin is, I have seen the MSSS site many times in the last five or six (or maybe more) years.

And I did not said (as far as I know, at 1:30 AM is a little difficult to remember what I wrote) that you got the image from some MARCI website, what made you think that I thought that?


PS: If your processing of the raw data took months then I suggest you find a different way of doing it, there must be a better and faster way of doing it.

Originally posted by Woodlock
reply to post by ArMaP

 

You're in the deep-end ArMap better turn around.

Armap has put lots of time and research into most/all of his posts concerning image analysis and in other areas. His research and analysis has been spot on in my view, and I'd hazard to say that it is you my friend that may have ventured into the 'deep end' as you say, and without your water wings.

While it's great you know how to use the PDS tools at NASA and have taken time to produce your image, it really isn't "new news", this is taken from old reporting way back in 1995.



And clouds are mentioned in the following .pdf as well:

www....(nolink)/?c22yzyzbh9y

[edit on 10-4-2008 by battlestargalactica]

CLOUDS??? ON MARS??? HOGWASH I SAY

Well except maybe for this CYCLONE


Oh and THIS Cyclone from Viking...



Oh ummm almost forgot the Lee Wave Clouds... heavy fog that makes interesting patterns over craters...





Clouds on Mars HA! How silly...

Wave Cloud...
Image taken by the Viking spacecraft. Wave clouds usually occur at the lee of a large obstacle. They are often found at the edge of the polar cap, and in the Tharsis and Lunae Planum regions of Mars.



Cloud Streets...
Image taken by the Viking spacecraft. The cloud patterns illustrated by this image exhibits a double periodicity. These types of clouds usually occur close to the northern-polar cap and in the Tharsis and Syria Planum regions of Mars.



Streaky Clouds...
Image taken by the Viking spacecraft. Streaky clouds seem to be found most everywhere; however, they seem to be more concentrated in the highlands southwest of Syrtis Major on Mars.



FOG
Image taken by the Viking spacecraft. Fog often appears in low-lying areas. It typically occurs in the southern hemisphere especially in the Argyre and Hellas basins. It forms frequently in craters. Occasionally, it occurs in higher regions such as Sinus Sabaeus and Solis Planum.



Chasma Australe Fog...
Fog is a common occurrence in some areas of the retreating south polar seasonal frost cap. Fogs are commonly banked-up against steep slopes or found inside defrosting craters. This Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) image captured mid-afternoon fog banked against the layered walls of Chasma Australe, a trough in the south polar region of Mars. The frost-covered layers of Chasma Australe can be seen on the right side of this image, the billowy fog is to the left. Sunlight illuminates this scene from the upper left. The fog, probably composed of water ice crystals, casts shadows on the chasm wall. This picture is located near 83.5°S, 257.9°W, and covers an area 3 km (1.9 mi) wide.



Clouds in Noctis Labyrinthis...
Image taken by the Viking spacecraft. This image shows early morning fog in the Noctis Labyrinthis, at the westernmost end of Valles Marineris. This fog, which is probably composed of water ice, is confined primarily to the low-lying troughs, but occasionally extends over the adjacent plateau. The region shown is about 300 kilometers (186 miles) across.



Whispy Clouds Passing Overhead Opportunity Rover Sol 950...
Opportunity acquired images of clouds passing over Victoria Crater using the navigation camera on the rover's 950th sol (martian day) of exploration on Mars (Sept. 25, 2006). Both rovers will continue searching the Martian sky for clouds during solar conjunction.

Left Navigation Camera Non-linearized Downsampled EDR acquired on Sol 950 of Opportunity's mission to Meridiani Planum at approximately 11:37:32 Mars local solar time. Credit: NASA/JPL



Wispy Afternoon Clouds
Rover Opportunity Sol 956



This is the first image ever taken from the surface of Mars of an overcast sky. The "you are here" notation marks where Earth was situated in the sky at the time the image was taken. Scientists had hoped to see Earth in this image, but the cloudy conditions prevented a clear viewing. Similar images will be taken in the future with the hope of capturing a view of Earth. From Mars, Earth would appear as a tiny blue dot as a star would appear to an earthbound observer. Pathfinder's imaging system will not be able to resolve Earth's moon. The image was taken about an hour and forty minutes before sunrise by the Imager for Mars Pathfinder (IMP) on Sol 16 at about ten degrees up from the eastern Martian horizon.

Source: NASA Mars Pathfinder



So let me make this PERFECTLY CLEAR... the skys on Mars are RED, DUSTY and THERE ARE NO CLOUDS





All the above images and sources can be accessed on Bluebird's page at Pegasus "Weather on Mars"


Clouds on Mars... Silly Lemmings

:shk:

[edit on 10-4-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by Essan
I remain adamant that the truth is far more prosaic - we are free to claim that circumstantial evidence is proof, whereas scientists prefer to be absolutely sure before making such a monumental annoucement.

Edit: forgot to say - congrats on getting your own forum! Well deserved (even if I tend to disagree with you more often than not!)

Thanks Essan! We need people who show the other side of the coin too. So arguments and disagreements are inevitable, and a necessity. How else can we be kept on our toes?

Here's something you may enjoy reading...

Donald L. Savage
Headquarters, Washington, DC

James Hartsfield
Johnson Space Center, Houston, TX
(Phone: 713/483-5111)

David Salisbury
Stanford University, Palo Alto, CA

RELEASE: 96-160

METEORITE YIELDS EVIDENCE OF PRIMITIVE LIFE ON EARLY MARS

A NASA research team of scientists at the Johnson Space
Center (JSC), Houston, TX, and at Stanford University, Palo
Alto, CA, has found evidence that strongly suggests primitive
life may have existed on Mars more than 3.6 billion years ago.
More....

Cheers!

reply to post by zorgon


Ron! You rock! Trust you to dig up all this fantastic stuff!!

Ha! Those are clouds on Earth, not Mars, for Chrissake!! Clouds on Mars? Naaah! They would have 'boiled away' due to the extreme low pressure (1/100th of Earth, I presume).

Seriously, I wish all these Viking images of the clouds were in color. How about color images of the clouds from Opportunity? Can you get hold of some?

Cheers!

I'm personally not convinced all of those supposed cloud images really are of clouds and are not just surface features. But there would certainly appear to be very conclusive proof of some 'high level' clouds on Mars (assuming images/video is genuine).

I'm not sure of any particular reason though why Mars shouldn't have a blue sky and thin clouds of ice crystals? I'm assuming the sky just turns 'red' during and following dust storms. If there are no dusts storms and the sky is clear - why should it be red? An overcast sky may be due to either dust clouds or ice crystals or perhaps a mix of the two.

Edit: clearly martian clouds are nothing new

If only the '98 mars mission hadn't been lost! I could have been issing martian weather forecasts

More 'official' cloud pictures here:

mars.jpl.nasa.gov...

[edit on 11-4-2008 by Essan]

reply to post by zorgon

And

reply to post by mikesingh



Maybe I missed or misread some post, but was anyone saying that there are no clouds on Mars?

I thought that was clear, but apparently is a cloudy subject.

Now Mike did you have any doubts?

PEGASUS RULES

But I do miss Bluebird... seems to have been whisked off planet





[edit on 11-4-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by mikesingh

Seriously, I wish all these Viking images of the clouds were in color. How about color images of the clouds from Opportunity? Can you get hold of some?

Hmmmm I don't think so... not from Viking that I have seen..

But we could do Pathfinder...

Pink stratus clouds are coming from the northeast at about 15 miles per hour (6.7 meters/ second) at an appoximate height of ten miles (16 kilometers) above the surface. The clouds consist of water ice condensed on reddish dust particles suspended in the atmosphere. Clouds on Mars are sometimes localized and can sometimes cover entire regions, but have not yet been observed to cover the entire planet. The image was taken by the Imager for Mars Pathfinder (IMP) on Sol 16 about forty minutes before sunrise showing areas of the eastern Martian horizon.

This is the first color image ever taken from the surface of Mars of an overcast sky. The image was taken about an hour and forty minutes before sunrise by the Imager for Mars Pathfinder (IMP) on Sol 16 at about ten degrees up from the eastern Martian horizon.

This animation shows three images taken on the morning of Sol 16. Between frames, you can see the clouds moving across the screen from the northeast. The clouds are thought to be about 10 miles high and moving in 15 mile per hour winds.

Source: NASA Mars Pathfinder

I can do Hubble in color...

Mars at Opposition, 2001
Frosty White Clouds and Dust Storms

Frosty white water ice clouds and swirling orange dust storms above a vivid rusty landscape reveal Mars as a dynamic planet in this sharpest view ever obtained by an Earth-based telescope.

NASA's Earth-orbiting Hubble Space Telescope took the picture on June 26, 2001, when Mars was approximately 43 million miles (68 million km) from Earth -- the closest Mars has ever been to Earth since 1988. Hubble can see details as small as 10 miles (16 km) across. The colors have been carefully balanced to give a realistic view of Mars' hues as they might appear through a telescope.

SOURCE

Springtime on Mars

The oval-looking Argyre impact basin (bottom), appears white due to clouds or frost....

...the cap has receded to a core of solid water-ice several hundred miles across....

...This picture was taken with Hubble's Wide Field Planetary Camera 2 in PC mode. Exposures were taken through three different color filters to create this true color image. The pictures were map-projected onto a sphere for accurate registration and perspective....

SOURCE

reply to post by ArMaP

Ah! so we agree then that the skies on Mars are indeed BLUE... and that there are WATER VAPOR clouds on Mars...

Good now we are getting somewhere...

We also agree that daytime summer temperatures can reach +81 degrees Fahrenheit ...

So to Recap...

Fluffy white water vapor clouds in a blue Martian sky with a balmy temperature of 81 degrees...

Sounds like the kinda conditions favorable to life to me... maybe just ad a few drops of rain

Sounds a lot better than what NASA normally shows us...

So ArMaP... how much did you say you are getting paid to debunk?




[edit on 11-4-2008 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon

Why do you state that Armap is "getting paid to debunk," Zorgon? Paid by whom and for what purpose, please provide sources for all accusations thanks

Originally posted by zorgon
Ah! so we agree then that the skies on Mars are indeed BLUE... and that there are WATER VAPOR clouds on Mars...

Yes, and you have known it for many months, from other threads.

We also agree that daytime summer temperatures can reach +81 degrees Fahrenheit ...

Maybe, I didn't said that I agree with that. Show me the data that shows those kind of temperatures and we may talk about it.

Fluffy white water vapor clouds in a blue Martian sky with a balmy temperature of 81 degrees...

Maybe, I do not know about those 81 degrees (and why don't you people use Celsius like all civilised countries?)

Sounds like the kinda conditions favorable to life to me... maybe just ad a few drops of rain

That is the part nobody (as far as I know) has seen, liquid water, and unless Mars is like those deserts where the flowers bloom and the toads come out from the ground when it rains (but in this case reduced to very small "leaks" that probably disappear in little time) I don't think Mars can have, on the surface, life as we know it.

So ArMaP... how much did you say you are getting paid to debunk?

Probably the same that you get paid by the Russian Mafia to dress as a fake king.

Originally posted by ArMaPYes, and you have known it for many months, from other threads.

True .. but others don't know that

Maybe, I didn't said that I agree with that. Show me the data that shows those kind of temperatures and we may talk about it.

Showed you the data, yes I did... but its here..
www-k12.atmos.washington.edu...

Maybe, I do not know about those 81 degrees (and why don't you people use Celsius like all civilised countries?)

I would but most here don't relate... 27 C Just outside Winnioeg Man. Canada there is a thermometer huge one They set a record cold snap and are proud of it -72 F almost Mars like... yet life survived... Human life...

I don't think Mars can have, on the surface, life as we know it.

You need to come out of your shell, ArMaP Come visit us here in Las Vegas... we will take you out into the desert (I promise we won't leave you there ) and I can show you how well life does without ANY visible signs of water.. We have had spells of 18 months without rain... yet there is 'life as we know it' all over the desert..

And actually if your stuck in the desert... look for signs of life ... they will lead you to where you can dig for water...

Probably the same that you get paid by the Russian Mafia to dress as a fake king.

Really That much huh? I got $750.00 for one weekend last time... but that wasn't the Russians... it was the county And about that 'fake' part... LOL Its recognized officially by two government agencies... three if you count the IRS