Tax the rich and feed the poor until there are no rich no more

Originally posted by resistor
Also, Nazi is short for national socialist.

Keep at it guys you're just showing your ignorance and I'm here to DENY IT!

Hitler used the term 'Socialist' to fool the working class into supporting his RIGHT WING fascist plan. National Socialism is a fancy name for fascism.
Fascism can have elements of socialism in it just like capitalism can, no system is 100% and can never be. Rightists can be liberal, leftists can be conservative.

"The party had to play both sides of the tracks. It had to allow [Nazi officials] Strasser, Goebbels and the crank Feder to beguile the masses with the cry that the National Socialists were truly 'socialists' and against the money barons. On the other hand, money to keep the party going had to be wheedled out of those who had an ample supply of it." (2)

Once in power, Hitler showed his true colors by promptly breaking all his promises to workers. The Nazis abolished trade unions, collective bargaining and the right to strike. An organization called the "Labor Front" replaced the old trade unions, but it was an instrument of the Nazi party and did not represent workers. According to the law that created it, "Its task is to see that every individual should be able… to perform the maximum of work." Workers would indeed greatly boost their productivity under Nazi rule. But they also became exploited. Between 1932 and 1936, workers wages fell, from 20.4 to 19.5 cents an hour for skilled labor, and from 16.1 to 13 cents an hour for unskilled labor. (3) Yet workers did not protest. This was partly because the Nazis had restored order to the economy, but an even bigger reason was that the Nazis would have cracked down on any protest.

Just like Russia, China, Cuba, it has NOTHING to do with true working class socialism, and even less to do with Libertarian Socialism (social anarchism). How can it when we do not support using military force, or any force for that matter? How can it when our main stance is NO COERCIVE AUTHORITY?

Just like ALL governments they lied to their people to get popular support.
Do you think if Bush, for example, came out and admitted he was a right wing corporate fascist, instead of a christian, any one would have voted for him? Please realise governments are used by the wealthy elite to control us, the masses, that make the money they get their power from. They take it all and we grovel around catching their crumbs. It's 'land owner the and serfs' on a massive complex scale. Without the serfs they would have nothing.

You guys should really do some reading and get a better understanding of our history and political terms...

Source for quotes

Originally posted by gdeed

Originally posted by InSpiteOf

So, you have no problem with corporations who receive negative tax credits (welfare from the government) while they export jobs to cheaper labour markets?

Most of those negative tax credits go to minority and women owned corporations.

Can you provide me a source on that? From what I understand, it's very hard to find publicly available and adequate information to draw conclusions and I'm really curious about the whole subject.

For instance, one survey was only able to find information on 275 corporations out of the Fortune 500, but of those, a third of them paid no taxes when they had profits of $102 billion. The rest paid closer to 17% rather than the 35% that they were supposed to pay in taxes.

Like:
Pepco Holdings Profit:$ 725,000,000 Tax: $ –432,000,000 Percentage of tax paid: –59.6%

3 Years running, paid no taxes.


www.ctj.org...


[edit on 1-4-2008 by Jadette]

[edit on 1-4-2008 by Jadette]

reply to post by ANOK


I think that we agree more than is evident in the exchange. The terms that gov's use are meaningless, it's what they do that is important. The point I was trying to make is that no matter what terms are used, the same powers are at work behind the scenes.

I am always keen to learn something new. Please provide some info on your 'working class socialism' so I can evaluate it in context. Info is a much better way of establishing your position than an emoticon.

edit for stuff


[edit on 1-4-2008 by resistor]

Originally posted by Jadette
For instance, one survey was only able to find information on 275 corporations out of the Fortune 500, but of those, a third of them paid no taxes when they had profits of $102 billion. The rest paid closer to 17% rather than the 35% that they were supposed to pay in taxes.

Food prices and gas prices are going up because our Democrat led congress keeps punishing corporations with higher taxes.

A corporation makes things and then sells them to us the consumer. All cost of making that thing be it food or gas becomes part of the cost of that item.

When we tax the corporations, we in fact tax ourselves, aren’t we the smart ones.

www.ctj.org...

I think the smart one's are the people that can see thru your transparent attempt at simply trashing the Democrats regardless of the facts.
You don't care about the American taxpayer. If you did you could see the greed and corruption in the current band of thieves and criminals.
How can oil companies show record profits and still stick it to the American working man with good conscious? Because all the current administration are OIL MEN and corporate whores and they could care less about the poor 9 to 5 working person that works for the corporations. Blatant elitism at it's most ugly.

The reason that prices are going up is "corporate greed" plain and simple.

www.corporations.org...
www.cato.org...
archive.newsmax.com...

www.endgame.org...

You completely ignore corporate tax breaks and subsidies.
No matter how many times a lie is repeated, it remains a lie.




[edit on 21-4-2008 by whaaa]

[edit on 21-4-2008 by whaaa]

Originally posted by whaaa

No matter how many times a lie is repeated, it remains a lie.

We are in total agreement on that, and the left keeps telling those lies to get us to raise taxes on our selves. Apparently, it works and we vote in tax everything that moves Democrats.

And prices for everything keeps going up for us working people.

Higher taxes are the only true greed; all that other stuff is anti mom and pop corporate propaganda. Most corporations are not large, 95% are small and medium and often don't survive long enough to pass on the tax hike to the consumer.

There have been times in history where some regions instituted a demurrage charge, a negative interest rate, or a tax on money.


How this worked was this:

Over time, the value of the money you were holding was reduced by a certain percentage.


This encouraged spending rather than hoarding. After all, the more money you held on to the faster you would lose it. Have 100 bucks? Lose 1 dollar a month. Have 10 million bucks? Lose 100,000 dollars a month.


This really lubricated the economy. The societies which tried this found that overall prosperity increased, crime decreased, and unemployment almost went away. Products were built to last, rather than built to sell. (What a neat idea!)


All by changing a system of compound interest on hoarded wealth into a tax on hoarded wealth.


After all, if you permit compound interest, whoever has the largest pile of money at the highest interest rate can eventually absorb all the money in the world...

reply to post by 44soulslayer




I have no problem with a person earning $15k a year compared to a person earning $100k a year. This isn't where the argument between wealth distribution comes in.


Here's where it gets ugly:

When there are 3.5 million homeless in this country, and the top 300 wealthiest people in the United States could feed, clothe, shelter, provide clean water, healthcare, and education for the poorest 3 BILLION people of the earth.


When 20,000 children STARVE TO DEATH every day, and billionaires spend their time wondering how to double their fortunes...


THIS IS WRONG. There is something disgusting that is endemic within the premises our economic structure is based on. This needs to be corrected. As long as society permits this flaw to exist, the world will have to face the continued threat of starvation. I KNOW we can all provide for ourselves. Something else is the problem... and I'm not blaming people, I'm blaming the system.


Think about all the resources spent on shipping virtually identical goods (like cars) across the oceans, all in the name of capitalism. Globally, we produce enough food to feed 26 billion people, yet most of it is wasted. Africa, one of the wealthiest continents in terms of natural resources, is also one of the most economically poor. How? Can you really blame the people there? Modern human beings have survived and provided for themselves there for at least 200,000 years. Widespread starvation has only emerged in the last 100 years. What changed?


Koyaanisqatsi. Life is out of balance with nature.


Michael Parenti, on Class Struggle:

Google Video Link

[edit on 21-4-2008 by ianr5741]

reply to post by ianr5741


Absolutely I agree. These greedy people are taking when they don't need, and this forces the poor to need to take. Is there any wonder there's so much violence? When you hoard the resources that could allow these men to provide for themselves peacefully, what choice do you give them but violence in order for them to survive?

If we want a peaceful world, don't look first to the violent, look first to stopping the greedy.

[edit on 21-4-2008 by ThePiemaker]

You can't eat money.

Money is just permission to work to provide for yourself. In a system where everything costs something, you need money to get anything. So to provide for yourself, you need the permission of those who have the money. They permit or deny permission, by deciding what you do. You can work for the company, you can work for the government, you can work for the army, but not nearly as many people in this country work for themselves.

Some say "Oh yes I do work for myself! I have a job and I pay my bills and I buy things." My answer to this is... "Who signs your paycheck? That's who you work for. Miss a few payments on your car or house, and you'll find out to whom it really belongs."

Corporations and big employers are nothing but labor pimps. They make you sell your life so that you can live, and they profit 10x for every dollar they pay you. It all goes up the corporate ladder to the CEOs and to the tax collectors. Even if you live on your own land, you can be taxed right out of your own property in this country. It's disgusting.


Our money system is un-democratic.





[edit on 21-4-2008 by ianr5741]

Originally posted by ianr5741
When there are 3.5 million homeless in this country, and the top 300 wealthiest people in the United States could feed, clothe, shelter, provide clean water, healthcare, and education for the poorest 3 BILLION people of the earth.

That’s what Stalin and Fidel Castro did, they confiscated the wealth at the top, and squandered the money and then all the people were poor and lived like animals, especially in the USSR (Russia)

When 20,000 children STARVE TO DEATH every day, and billionaires spend their time wondering how to double their fortunes...

Lift wing tyranny creates a lot of starving children and adults too.

Take away the incentive, which is making money and everyone, will starve.

Billionaires create the money that others use to start small and large businesses, which in turn create jobs.

Or we can live like they do in third world countries, in huts and die slow deaths while the flies suck our blood.

Even Socialist countries use capitalism to create money for their people. Communist China figure it out and is now one of the biggest, capitalist countries in the world.

It’s only the left-wingers who grew up and live in capitalist countries that don’t get it because they are spoiled and have never lacked for anything.

Originally posted by gdeed

Originally posted by ianr5741
When there are 3.5 million homeless in this country, and the top 300 wealthiest people in the United States could feed, clothe, shelter, provide clean water, healthcare, and education for the poorest 3 BILLION people of the earth.

That’s what Stalin and Fidel Castro did, they confiscated the wealth at the top, and squandered the money and then all the people were poor and lived like animals, especially in the USSR (Russia)

When 20,000 children STARVE TO DEATH every day, and billionaires spend their time wondering how to double their fortunes...

Lift wing tyranny creates a lot of starving children and adults too.

Take away the incentive, which is making money and everyone, will starve.

Billionaires create the money that others use to start small and large businesses, which in turn create jobs.

Or we can live like they do in third world countries, in huts and die slow deaths while the flies suck our blood.

Even Socialist countries use capitalism to create money for their people. Communist China figure it out and is now one of the biggest, capitalist countries in the world.

It’s only the left-wingers who grew up and live in capitalist countries that don’t get it because they are spoiled and have never lacked for anything.

I'm not advocating Stalin. I'm advocating something more democratic. Right now money has more voice than a hundred million voters.

Billionaires do not create a dime. Banks create the money in America. Billionaires hoard it.

Incentive disappears when your best effort isn't enough. Some people just give up. You can excuse one person here or there, or blame them just the same. But when the statistics show it to be a massive, and growing problem, you can't keep blaming the people and calling them lazy or stupid.

this entire thread is sad. Rich poor rich poor. WHATEVER. Get rich or die trying, 50 cent term. If you cant be creative. SHUT UP AND LIVE TO THE FULLEST UNDER THE TERM OF YOUR CONDITION. Here have 50 cents and buy yourself a soda..oops. You need a dollar hehe..wait the dollar is fading

I knew that pyramid was no good, no good! Damn might need 2-3 dollars for a small soda in the future.

Ugh all i had was a dollar for interest. We need jesus to supply some soda. Maybe the pope can help us out aswell.` Yes free spiritual soda! Well you can use my waterhose if your thristy.

[edit on 21-4-2008 by ItsFrickenAndrew]

All this debate about the world bleeding and in turmoil, disharmony etc etc... is all well and good.

But what are the solutions of the left-wing to tackle these issues? The only policy you seem to have is to take from the rich and give to the poor.

Excuse me for being so blunt... but my response to this scheme would be to say "If you want to grab my hard earned money, you come and take it from me like the thief you are. I'll have my guns waiting"

reply to post by 44soulslayer


taking money from you is the solution. Just because you earned it doesn't mean you deserve it. You can guard your greed, but it's best for the world to just let go.

reply to post by ThePiemaker


As I said, Molon Labe.

Your perceived morals do not allow you to steal from me.

I think that by working hard to gain my money, I deserve it. You think it should be taken from me by force and given to those who are unwilling to work for it, or incapable due to their inferiority to gain it.

As such we stand at a gulf of opinion that cannot be bridged. The only recourse left is a continuation of polity by any other means... ie War.

[edit on 21-4-2008 by 44soulslayer]

Good One, If there ever was a scary ghost story for the Rich to make them go bonkkers, tax these buggers to death for conning the federal reserve, but then....also keep in mind that, most of the rich gravy from bushland cut-n-ran to the Australian Island of Tasmania, they actually bought this entire Island from the Australian Government, with looted American Taxpayers Money.

reply to post by gdeed



Here's an excellent video on corporations.

Google Video Link

reply to post by 44soulslayer


You certainly deserve money for working, I just don't agree with how much the rich make. I think the rich make too much money for the work that they do. So we reduce how much they make, and we pay more to those who work for the rich.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer

Excuse me for being so blunt... but my response to this scheme would be to say "If you want to grab my hard earned money, you come and take it from me like the thief you are. I'll have my guns waiting"

You don't need a thief to come and take your dollars. First, they're taken from you right out of your paycheck,


Then, you're taxed half to death...


And last, the spending power of what you keep is eroded by inflation.


Your dollars may still be in the bank. But they buy half as much. You've been robbed, and you never saw the thief.


"By this means government may secretly and unobserved, confiscate the wealth of the people, and not one man in a million will detect the theft." - Lord John Maynard Keynes, “Economic Consequences of Peace”




[edit on 21-4-2008 by ianr5741]