Is the Cross Just Another Lie? (Revised)

reply to post by idle_rocker

Yes, but you keep evading my question. If I am to make a judgment, I must have something to judge. I know what I must judge it against...now what am I judging?

Actually, we have been chasing each others tail all evening! I am not avoiding your question, but I may add what qualifies you to do the judging? If anything I say sounds wrong or does not feel right then let that be your judgment.

Otherwise, as I said in one of the other threads this evening, check out my website; michelelyon.com. I have a blog and definite information that may tweak your interest or...not!

Also, I have been asked to do a thread by more than one person to put my philosophy or prophesy, which ever works, into it. It will take some work but I may do so in a week or so.

reply to post by MatrixProphet


Yeah, I realized we were chasing each other around a few minutes ago. I did check out your website, but you're not finished with it, so I just got a mere gleaning from it. I'll look for your new threads when you get them going.

But to be fair, I'm a Christian...you know that. So, I may be throwing you some soft balls every now and then. I try not to throw hard balls


I've found hard balls don't work anyway.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet

As I have said a few times, I believe that Jesus did indeed exist, but for a far bigger reason than religion teaches.

Matrix,

The Jesus you learn about through religion is not the Jesus of Nazareth discussed in the bible, it is another Jesus which has been warned about from the scriptures of all holy writings, and from the mouths of the Prophets and Teachers since the begriming

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with me.

1Jo 2:18 ¶ Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

The Jesus religion uses to support itself is anti-christ, it is a subtle beguiling of the mind to believe their versions of who Jesus is and what he did, it leaves the convert to the religion powerless over the circumstances of their lives and traps them in that system feeding off their money time and talent until they die.

The sorcery being used is preparing the way for the eventual return to rulership over the kingdom of mankind by the son of perdition, the God man who will save the world only to destroy it.

In order for religion to continue it must of necessity deny the true identity of the Messiah.


I agree completely with you on the cross, I studied this back in the early eighties and there were four others executed with Jesus at the time not two, they also were hung on stakes two on his left side two on his right.

In E. W. Bullinger's Companion bible, in the appendices, it has a great summation of the execution and a picture of five stakes to show how mass executions would have been conducted at that time in history.

They would not have wasted the money to purchase five cross beams it would have been contrary to roman law at the time.

At this moment my thoughts are in other areas of concern that I feel are much more of a cover up by Christendom, but I would put the cross versus the stake at number three.

1. The dead are dead
2. God the son does not exist
3. The lie of a cross

The effect any or all of these teachings has in real life is to deny the individual the truth in practical reality, that they themselves have been given the power of God into their own hands, which is the end of all religion, where it all leads a man, to the denial of the power of God.

People need to understand they are responsible to take up their personal execution, to recognize that they are condemned to die in this world, because we love God and the things of God, the world judges us guilty and sentences us to die for our love, as it did the Messiah.

We must die to this world to live for God.

reply to post by idle_rocker

I did check out your website, but you're not finished with it, so I just got a mere gleaning from it.

Yes, it is. You need to click on the picture on the first page and it will take you into my site. If you did do that, then go to the bottom of any page and it will take you to another page. My Statements is my blog site.

I realize you may use many scriptures in an attempt to refute what I am saying in posts or threads. I can understand that. You may use scriptures that I feel are written as part of the whole Bible conspiracy - purposely written to mislead the religious. You will win from a religious angle. My role is to take man away from the dogma (like the cross) to possible revelations that are only now being spoken of, and may seem to be heresy.

reply to post by MatrixProphet


Matrix- A question for you.

Should I post my experience in here in a digest version? I am aware of what this would/could invite. I am not worried about that and can assure I would not take someone else's opinion and derail this thread and nor will I be bated into doing so.

Please ask and advise.

reply to post by newday


Some of your points I find to be interesting. We differ on some of them but that is what makes for good discussion.

It has been my revelation that the Anti-Christ is actually the secularists/atheists, for obvious reasons. They are like right in front of our noses and they declare an opposition to Jesus Christ. I do not tag all atheists in this category, however.

Many atheists are not so anti - God as they would like us to believe. Many are confused about the God of religion, as are many, and so have taken a stance against it all. They throw the baby out with the bathwater. I have honestly, known more atheists to talk about God than most Christians I have known! An entity that they don't believe exists - sure takes up a lot of space in their minds and discussions. I don't believe in the cross, but this thread is the first time I have spoken of it in years.

My observation regarding your post: It seems that the very thing you are trying to avoid is the very thing you are creating...religion? Tell me if I am wrong.

reply to post by dk3000


Do you want it to be more private? Do you really want to subject it to the critics? If so, go ahead or we can talk privately.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet


My observation regarding your post: It seems that the very thing you are trying to avoid is the very thing you are creating...religion? Tell me if I am wrong.

Matrix,

No man can use religion against his brother without being used of that religion.

God does not use people is my reply to you, He moves in the words they speak.

reply to post by newday

He moves in the words they speak.

Yes. But will you acknowledge that there may be many Gods that speak within those words?

reply to post by MatrixProphet


Thanks for the call Matrix. I appreciate it. The subject would have derailed the thread. Your insight on it was spot on!

Originally posted by MatrixProphet

Yes. But will you acknowledge that there may be many Gods that speak within those words?

I will acknowledge that there many ways in which God moves because there are many people moved by Him, but There is only one God, and we all every last one of us are gonna know that one day whether we choose to or not.

Those who acknowledge themselves dead to this world and alive to God are awake to the omni presence of God.

There is nothing hide from the eyes of God if He exists in reality, that is the definition of prophecy and revaluation.

There is nothing God will tell me that He hasn't told you Himself, if we are brothers, He only needs me to speak as His Prophet when my brother has been told, but will not listen,

That is the work of a true Prophet of the Most High God, the testing of the ages in the vision of a man.

No man can mock God is the principle, the laying of preparations of a mans heart for the recognition of a day of reckoning of all things

Is today a day of reckoning, a time of testing the souls of Prophets?

The word came and said, now is the time of proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

How do you see things?

reply to post by newday

I will acknowledge that there many ways in which God moves because there are many people moved by Him, but There is only one God, and we all every last one of us are gonna know that one day whether we choose to or not.

So we won't get tagged for going off thread...where do you stand with other lies related to the Bible or religion? I showed where I stood with the cross, there are many doctrines that I feel are taught as lies that are part of Christianity.

We have differing views regarding Gods. The Bible speaks of many gods (notice the lower case g), but only one Almighty.

I am hearing notes of a declaration of a prophet in you or are you defining what you feel a prophet to be?

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
So we won't get tagged for going off thread...where do you stand with other lies related to the Bible or religion? I showed where I stood with the cross, there are many doctrines that I feel are taught as lies that are part of Christianity.

No one has shown definitive proof that the cross was or was not simply a stake. I know where you stand and I respect that. However, you cannot claim that the Bible lies in reference to the cross. It neither supports or nor opposes either stance. It only offers clues as to the actual shape as I and others have pointed out. Religion may be the culprit, but without definitive proof, even religion is in the clear here.

There appear to be many inconsistencies in the Bible. Fully researching and understanding the Bible and the times in which it was written, however, gives one a better understanding.

reply to post by darkelf

However, you cannot claim that the Bible lies in reference to the cross.

I am not saying that the Bible is lying regarding the cross, just the people who interpret it.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
I am not saying that the Bible is lying regarding the cross, just the people who interpret it.

Thanks for the clarity on that, but like I said without difinitive proof all we have are our differing beliefs on the subject. I thank you though, for your continued contributions.

Let's not forget that many denominational bibles have a holy cross on their covers. I don't think I need to link bible cover copies-but I will you you need me too!

I'm just saying....

PS- Also on church doors, clothing, et all. This symbol is heavily marketed. I don't understand why any group who wishes to market the best qualities from Jesus and God would choose suffering and death to convey this message. I know I am gonna get wrapped for this- but to remind people of the sacrifice is total BS - so please don't try to bring that to me. I have a degree in marketing. If you want to get peoples attention even symbolically you create a related logo or symbol which describes the best of what you have to offer.

Maybe this is the best religion has to offer and the marketing strategy is right on target........?



[edit on 1-4-2008 by dk3000]

Originally posted by dk3000
I don't understand why any group who wishes to market the best qualities from Jesus and God would choose suffering and death to convey this message. I know I am gonna get wrapped for this- but to remind people of the sacrifice is total BS - so please don't try to bring that to me. I have a degree in marketing. If you want to get peoples attention even symbolically you create a related logo or symbol which describes the best of what you have to offer.

The cross is not a reminder of suffering, but a reminder of victory! The victory over death and hell does market the best qualities of God and Jesus. It is a reminder that Jesus not only suffered and died, but rose from the dead. The resurrection of Christ is the basis of our hope in Christ.

I would never blast you for any remark you make about your own beliefs. I respect you right to believe whatever you wish as well as hoping you respect mine.

Off topic, your avatar, although mesmerizing is also strangely disturbing.

Originally posted by darkelf

Originally posted by dk3000

I would never blast you for any remark you make about your own beliefs. I respect you right to believe whatever you wish as well as hoping you respect mine.

Off topic, your avatar, although mesmerizing is also strangely disturbing.

I appreciate that. I do respect your personal beliefs, and I also understand the victory salute. Wouldn't it also convey that victory would be for us to to reach this without marketing it as having been overcome by proxy and example?

A trail of blood by disbelievers who refuse to believe seems to me to be contrary. I don't wish to re-hash the crusades, witch hunts etcetera- but why would religions congregate and kill for disbelief and refusal to convert- if they are in fact the one true place that has victory and understands this. Victory over death and the resurrection of such values by example is one of the greatest contradictions of the Christian faith and every other religion for that matter.

PS- I am making a new avatar. I had my reasons for the old one which no longer apply!

reply to post by dk3000

Originally posted by dk3000
I appreciate that. I do respect your personal beliefs, and I also understand the victory salute. Wouldn't it also convey that victory would be for us to to reach this without marketing it as having been overcome by proxy and example?

The point of the “cross” is not to advertise for converts, but to advertise who the wearer is supposed to be a follower of.

A trail of blood by disbelievers who refuse to believe seems to me to be contrary. I don't wish to re-hash the crusades, witch hunts etcetera- but why would religions congregate and kill for disbelief and refusal to convert- if they are in fact the one true place that has victory and understands this. Victory over death and the resurrection of such values by example is one of the greatest contradictions of the Christian faith and every other religion for that matter.

Hence the problem with organized religion which corrupts the very message it pretends to proclaim. I am sure that most people will understand that the crusades, etc. . . . were based on greed and perhaps some fear. It saddens me that this was done in the name of my Savior, who would have had nothing to do with it. I am positive that He was not consulted on this, or if He were, His council was not taken.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet

We have differing views regarding Gods. The Bible speaks of many gods (notice the lower case g), but only one Almighty.

I am hearing notes of a declaration of a prophet in you or are you defining what you feel a prophet to be?

Matrix

I have experienced the operations of Holy Spirit in the revealing of prophecy; my soul has felt the warmth of the light of God and yearns for the day of redemption.

When God moves me to do things for Him it is not normally as a prophet, I am a worker of miracles generally.


All theory begins in belief, if they would begin in the belief of the existence of God rather from a disbelief, then in their reality God would reveal Himself more and more.

But men, who choose to begin in the disbelief of God, receive to themselves that which they believe for from God, their reality becomes evermore blind to the light of the everlasting.

We all reap what we sow; sow to the flesh and of the flesh you shall reap.

God is ever with the faithful, even till the end.

The scientists are experiencing the reality they themselves are shaping for themselves as we both are doing likewise.

That is why there will never be a meeting of the minds between the scientist and religion, we all exist in our own measured realities; consciousness is trapped in a quantum paradox of energy using form for experience.

That which is bond on earth, in the heart of a believing person of faith, is bond in heaven, and that which is loosed on earth from the heart of the people of faith, is loosed in heaven.

God is very content to reveal Himself to all who seek Him, and to withdraw from all who withdrew.

What do you know of God?