Osama bin Laden to release new message: monitor

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
B) I doubt you were saying there was no WMD initially from the beginning when every intelligence agency, including other nations, were saying he DID have them.

Every other intelligence agency? You mean for example the CIA?

Bush knew Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction

On Sept. 18, 2002, CIA director George Tenet briefed President Bush in the Oval Office on top-secret intelligence that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, according to two former senior CIA officers.

Other nations? Russia, China, France (all UN Security Council permanent members) and Germany didn't think Saddam had WMD.

And more importantly, neither did the UN Inspectors.

Plus I am still not conviced he did not have them.

CIA’s final report: No WMD found in Iraq

WASHINGTON - In his final word, the CIA’s top weapons inspector in Iraq said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has “gone as far as feasible” and has found nothing, closing an investigation into the purported programs of Saddam Hussein that were used to justify the 2003 invasion.

Well, when will you be convinced that he didn't have them?

And will it be alright for us too to just keep denying that Bin Laden is alive, even if and when the US supposedly captures him and parades him?

C) Way to deflect and of course you did not answer the question. Will you admit you were wrong?

If he gets captured and they show him, yes I will admit that I was wrong to think that he was dead, because to think otherwise would be to deny reality.

I leave the denying reality job to you

reply to post by biggie smalls

Ok, so I will take that as a no.
You will not admit fault regardless of the proof.



[edit on 20-3-2008 by 4thDoctorWhoFan]

reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan


Where is your proof that he's alive? A video? Please.

Come up with something better next time. Produce a hand, a piece of hair, something that leads credibility to your case.

The last few videos don't even look like him.

Originally posted by danx
Every other intelligence agency? You mean for example the CIA?

Please.......
I guess you did not read the last sentence or just choose to believe otherwise because I would not call what '2 FORMER CIA officers' have to say as definitive of anything.

Other nations? Russia, China, France (all UN Security Council permanent members) and Germany didn't think Saddam had WMD.

I don't think that is accurate. Oh, and don't forget about the British.

Well, when will you be convinced that he didn't have them?

But he did right? Didn't he gas his own people with chemical weapons? Unless you don't consider chemical weapons WMD.

I leave the denying reality job to you

Oh, if that helps you sleep better at night.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Where is your proof that he's alive? A video?

Are you serious? Come on, you know it does not work this way.
You are going against the grain so it is YOU who need to supply the proof that he is dead. You are the one with the conspiracy theory that the government is involved and all the video tapes are fake. Sorry pal but YOU need to provide proof.

reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan


Actually the CIA trained Bin Laden so as far as I'm concerned I don't need to provide proof.

For me, that's enough proof of government involvement regardless if he's alive or not.

Reread this thread I've posted enough proof already.

Oh look, no video just audiotape. How convenient.


Some news:

Bin Laden: Pope Helps Anti-Islam Crusade

Osama bin Laden accused Pope Benedict XVI of helping in a "new Crusade" against Islam and warned of a "severe" reaction to European publications of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad that insulted many Muslims.

Bin Laden's new audiotape message raised concerns al-Qaida was plotting new attacks in Europe. Some experts said bin Laden, believed to be in hiding in the rugged Afghan-Pakistan border area, may be unable to organize an attack himself and instead is trying to fan anger and inspire his supporters to violence.

This image released by al-Qaida's media unit as-Sahab and taken from a militant Web site shows an undated photo of Osama bin Laden as part of an audiotaped speech posted late Wednesday, March 19, 2008. Osama bin Laden criticized the publication of drawings insulting to the Prophet Muhammad and warned Europeans of a strong reaction to come.(AP Photo/as-Sahab via AP Television News)






This image released by al-Qaida's media unit as-Sahab and taken from a militant Web site shows an undated photo of Osama bin Laden as part of an audiotaped speech posted late Wednesday, March 19, 2008. Osama bin Laden criticized the publication of drawings insulting to the Prophet Muhammad and warned Europeans of a strong reaction to come.(AP Photo/as-Sahab via AP Television News)





[edit on 3/20/2008 by biggie smalls]

I find it strange that the american government can suddenly "produce" another Osama video every coupla years yet can't find the man himself. I'm with everyone else, I don't believe Osama has been alive for years, or if he is alive, then it's only cause "they" need him for a while.If they were really SERIOUS about catching him, then, it defies belief they haven't, especially given their resources. I look at every "Osoma video" with a knowing frown, I've seen it before, but I just can't put my finger on it. It's like it's right there in front of our face, but no-one can see it. The fear of something unseen, and unknown, is usually reserved for childhood nightmares, but when used as a tactical advantage it carries a greater fear then monsters under the bed. I really think that to some extent, both sides are actually helping the other side to win. I haven't seen a credable video of Osoma in years. And the ones that come out, well, nothing ever happens? What's going on today in the world has nothing to do with Osama bin laden. He's just a part of the script.
in my mind.

reply to post by biggie smalls


Those photos were released over twenty years ago when the CIA was training Bin Laden to fight the Soviets.

Nothing new. Same old story, different day.

cnn.com

Doesn't really look like him either, though tough to say.

Anyway, Europe is the target of his ire this time round, whether 'he' be real or not.

Originally posted by CindyfromFlorida
Hopefully, sometime soon, there will be an awakening of the mass consciosness, and everyone will realize what a hoax all these videos have been. The real enemies that we should fear are within our own government, and we must have the courage to stand up to them-an idea much more frightening to the American Public, than the fairy tale villians that have been created by our "leaders" and "MSM.

I totally agree with you, it's time for awakening of the general public and also to be aware: who indeed will profit of the release of this so called video? We have to stop letting the media do the thinking for us and demand the end of propagandistic journalism.

reply to post by biggie smalls


Just another "Scare Tactic" to keep the American War Machine & Murderous Colonialism going. As usual, these gulible, Bible slapping, Americans are "Awed with Shock" and "Boogy manish" fears as they slice their dwindling American pies.

Again, five years into this genocidal fiasco, we are still placing blame on a man in a turbin as the war mongering moron we elected as President is not held accountable for.... ANYTHING!!,-- NADA!!-- NOTHING!!-- ZILTCH!!.

And you thought the Cowboy would save the day?? Please! Bush and the horse he rode in on are trampling America, it's economy and Military into their graves.

Jesus, how many times can the American people be Bamboozel'd before they wake up!!!????

The fact that somehow there is always a well broadcasted notice prior to Osama's speaches, let's me know this is all a propoganda riddled conspiracy to whip up patriotic flatulence. -------- And boy does it stink out there!!

[edit on 20-3-2008 by Level X]

Originally posted by Level X
Just another "Scare Tactic" to keep the American War Machine & Murderous Colonialism going. As usual, gulible, Bible slapping, Americans are "Awed with Shock" and "Boogy manish" fears as they slice their dwindling American pies.

Or the simplest answer is that people who think the same as you are just paranoid & a little delusional regarding politics & the military.

reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan


Maybe the people who are afraid of Bin Laden and think he is the "boogie man" are the paranoid ones.

I'm not afraid of anyone. That doesn't mean I sit back and think the world is all dandy. I speak my truth and that includes dissenting the criminals in our government.

This isn't a conservative/liberal or republican/democrat issue. I see you have a nice liberal message in your profile. It seems you can't see past party lines and that's sad.

Osama Bin Laden was supported to fight the Soviets. We sold him tons of guns and ammunition, whatever we could get to Afghanistan. He never left the payroll.

That's a fact.

Whether or not he actually pulled off 911 is quite irrelevant. Its important to see who actually was backing him at the time and that includes more than just the US government. The Pakistanis, Saudis, Israelis, British, and the US benefitted from these wars (and I'm sure many others). That's just scratching the surface. If I went to include all the private organizations and people who benefit from OBL or 911 or Iraq the list would be a mile long.

[edit on 3/20/2008 by biggie smalls]

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan

Originally posted by Level X
Just another "Scare Tactic" to keep the American War Machine & Murderous Colonialism going. As usual, gulible, Bible slapping, Americans are "Awed with Shock" and "Boogy manish" fears as they slice their dwindling American pies.

Or the simplest answer is that people who think the same as you are just paranoid & a little delusional regarding politics & the military.

My friend, your avatar sums the "ridiculous evil" of it all in a nut shell... The Three Stooges of Power

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Maybe the people who are afraid of Bin Laden and think he is the "boogie man" are the paranoid ones.

Who said anything about being afraid?
Just because you want the leader of a terrorist organization dead which killed 3000 Americans does NOT mean you are scared. It just simply means you want him dead!

I see you have a nice liberal message in your profile. It seems you can't see past party lines and that's sad.

Is it really?
Why would I go against what I believe just to cross party lines? That makes no sense. Its not my fault most liberals are doves. Oh, and liberal does NOT mean all democrats. Just like there is a difference between republicans and conservatives.

Osama Bin Laden was supported to fight the Soviets. We sold him tons of guns and ammunition, whatever we could get to Afghanistan. He never left the payroll.

That's a fact.

Really??? Show me proof that he never left the payroll.
As for supporting him against the Soviets, wouldn't you rather they fight the Soviets instead of losing American lives. Seemed like the reasonable thing to do at the time.

Whether or not he actually pulled off 911 is quite irrelevant.

Umm....NO, its not. That is the entire point!

Originally posted by Level X
My friend, your avatar sums the "ridiculous evil" of it all in a nut shell... The Three Stooges of Power

I'm delighted you find it amusing because that is the point of the avatar. In fact, I purposefully put Cheney in the drivers seat because I know you really believe Cheney is pulling the strings.

[edit on 20-3-2008 by 4thDoctorWhoFan]

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
I guess you did not read the last sentence or just choose to believe otherwise because I would not call what '2 FORMER CIA officers' have to say as definitive of anything.

No, you're the one that did not read, otherwise you wouldn't have missed the link about the CIA's final report on WMD in Iraq. That's not 2 former CIA officers opinion, it's the agency's official report on the matter.

Here, you can read it on the CIA's website. I hope that's official enough for you.

Other nations? Russia, China, France (all UN Security Council permanent members) and Germany didn't think Saddam had WMD.

I don't think that is accurate. Oh, and don't forget about the British.

Yes, it's accurate.

Key Allies Still Reluctant Over Iraq War (China, France, Russia Support Continued Inspections)

Russia, China, France blast opening of Iraq War

Diplomats are given five days to avert war

President Bush was preparing to speak to Russian and Chinese leaders today in an attempt to prevent them casting vetos, while Tony Blair and Mr Straw worked phones and co-ordinated an unprecedented diplomatic offensive to win over precious votes.

With veto-wielding members France, Russia and China leading opposition to the US-British stance, the rival camps were vying to secure backing from the 10 non-permanent Security Council members. Britain, America, Spain and Bulgaria favour the resolution setting a deadline while France, Russia, China, Germany and Syria favour an extension of inspections.

This article in wikipedia lists every country's position pre-2003 Iraq Invasion, the ones in favor and against.

France, Germany and Russia were, from the get-go, publicly opposed to US war plans at all levels.[...]

The People's Republic of China pressed for continued U.N. weapons inspections in Iraq after two arms inspectors told the Security Council they had found no evidence of weapons of mass destruction. Although it stated its wish that the situation be resolved peacefully, China did not threaten to exercise its Security Council veto and had abstained in many previous decisions on Iraq. Demonstrations were reported from Hong Kong and Taiwan, and even in mainland China, where exercising free speech is usually shunned, some protests were tolerated.

Well, when will you be convinced that he didn't have them?

But he did right? Didn't he gas his own people with chemical weapons? Unless you don't consider chemical weapons WMD.

Yeah, he did. You know, the chemical weapons we (as in the western world -- including the US) sold him.

But the point is that at the time of the Invasion he didn't have any, and Iraq didn't pose any threat to the US or the western world. I mean, wasn't that the reason for invading Iraq?

Are we going to invade countries now based on what they did or had IN THE PAST?

And besides, all the inspectors and evidence pointed to Iraq not being in possession of WMDs at the time. Where's the evidence saying otherwise?

So yes, if you keep thinking that Saddam had WMDs in 2003, you are denying reality. But you're free to provide/link/quote the evidence that he did have WMDs in 2003, so we can continue this argument.

Who cares. OBL is a coward..lol....Most of his followers are either dead, being hunted or running like hell. All he is going to end up doing is making this a Christian VS Islamic conflict. In which case millions of Muslims will die. Not from just war, but food aid and RX not getting to starving/dying people. I say this because most of the big drug companies are based in the EU, India and USA. When is the last time the Saudis grew corn or wheat? We could easily kill off more than half the muslims in the world by stopping food and meds from shipping. what could they do?? make gas 6 bucks a gallon..

Osama should die now if not dead already

Originally posted by danx
Yeah, he did.

I'm glad you admit he had WMD. Phew, glad that dispute is over.
So the whole argument of him not ever having WMD is moot.