F.B.I. Counsel: No Attempt Made By F.B.I. To Formally Identify 9/11 Plane Wreckage

Originally posted by Retikx
The reason they diddint use 2 more planes is simple.

767 + 757 + fuel = more than 200 Million dollars

cruise missile painted up like an AA $600 000

You're kidding, right?

This amount of money would be PEANUTS to any mythical NWO/Bilderburgs/Whatever cockamamie theory out there.

Originally posted by Griff
Let me get this straight:

Debunkers claim that there is a plethora of evidence at the pentagon that what we are told was the truth.

No video and/or photos.

No plane parts positively identified.

Only anectdotal evidence as I can see it.

And the "truthers" are the ones who are supossed to have the burden of proof?

How people can actually think that way is beyond me. Unless they are paid to think that way.

Oh c'mon Griff, you're better than this.

The video is crappy, so can't be used as evidence. For EITHER side.

There ARE photos. You know this.

The FDR was positively id'd. This IS a plane part.

Don't forget the bodies id'd either. This isn't anecdotal evidence. But hard science.

Eyewitnesses? Don't think this is anecdotal either. Unless you're stating that the testimony in Moussaoui's trial from the people that saw what happened wasn't allowed since it's anecdotal?

C'mon dude. It's fine to dispute evidence and say this or that and have an alternative reason for what's there, it's ridiculous to say that there's nothing but anecdotal evidence. But I see the same thing from debunkers saying that there's no evidence to support trutherz stories, which is obviously a lie, since there IS evidence to support their theories. But maybe this was just a dig at that particular poster since you had a ?

Originally posted by Griff

But, we are told that they couldn't track the planes. Or so that's the excuse why the planes were not intercepted.

In my view, you can't have it both ways.

Either they couldn't track them.....which they would then not know exactly which plane hit.

Or.

They could track them....which then they are lying when they say they couldn't.

Which is it? I'm sick and tired of the runaround.

Debunkers and the government need to get their stories straight (and yes jthomas, there IS a story being peddled).

Here's another one.

When the transponders were turned off, the planes disappeared from the 1 screen which carries JUST the info given to it FROM the transponder. There's another screen that carries the basic 'blips' on it, and of course it would be on that one. But how do you pick it out of the clutter of all the ot her planes? Impossible. There's hundreds of planes in the general area.

Obviously, if they fly out of the flight lanes, at that point it would raise concern...... but there's NO WAY to know if that's the specific plane that turned of its transponder.

Later, recordings or whatever can be used to go back and track them to their crash sites, certainly. These 2 aspects are not mutually exclusive, unless you quote mine and take snippets of dialogue out of context.

Originally posted by Whodunnit
Later, recordings or whatever can be used to go back and track them to their crash sites, certainly.

When was this "later" that you describe? As I remember it, they knew exactly when it happened. And reported it.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally posted by Whodunnit

Originally posted by Lightworth
I'm not buying that there were no planes hitting the towers, but there definitely weren't any at the Pentagon and (near) Shanksville, PA.

Why in the name of all that is good and pure would anyone fly planes into 2 buildings, but fake the other 2? This is not a very well thought out position, IMHO. If anything, flying a plane into the ground or into a building that is 1500' wide or so would be the EASIEST thing to do, of all that happened. WHY you would, or HOW you could come to this conclusion is beyond me.

The coverups in the NIST and the 9/11 Commission Report are very simple. They are NOT covering up some LIHOP or MIHOP bs. They are covering up the shortcomings of the buildings and the foreign policy that we had in the Middle East. Nothing more.

Whodunnit,
Firstly I am not a no planer so lets get that out of the way.

One of the theories regarding the Pentagon is that the perpetrators wanted to control the damage done to the Pentagon insinuating that some of these perps or their assets were inside that building. Did you know the "hijackers" managed to hit the one section of the Pentagon under renovation?? Which had been reinforced for bomb blasts? There were not that many employees working in that section otherwise the casualties would have been much higher. Lucky break!

I don't know what hit the Pentagon or the Shanksville field. Wish they would show us the videos...that would help!

reply to post by jackinthebox


Okay, I have watched the video Taxi.To.The.Dark.Side. This is nothing new; we did this in Viet Nam and have done it where ever we go. Behind our facades of being the "Good Guys", we are the biggest terrorists and perpetuators of terror on the planet. Our son's and daughters in their time are brainwashed to do as they are told and they are told to get the job done, which in most cases is to subdue, establish control or kill.

The mess is so deep, so dark and so horrible that I have no idea what can be done. And don't kid yourself, this goes to the core of human beings, who are capable of every abomination. Watch how Police Act and can treat people they have dehumanized. Tour our prisons and social services; watch how those in control treat people. This trait in humans is what convinces me that we do in fact have Reptilian Blood/Genetics.

I am an ex-Marine but what I did in Viet Nam was nothing compared to what my father did at 50,000 feet from the B52's he piloted on bombing runs of Cambodia. We dro bombs and shoot missles from hundreds of miles away that tear women and children to pieces and claim to be the "Brave", the "Good Guys". It is all bad, it is all based on lies and greed and agendas of the few and we are all hypocrates because we won't care if our gas and lifestyles are threatened.

That is why it is our and the worlds karma that all of this must end but frankly, I have no intention of confronting for change, I am withdrawing to get as far from it all as possible.

There will be no justice in any court of any land; the crimes are too many by too many. Maybe 2012 and Planet X and the Sun going to the center of our solar system will do the house cleaning this planet needs. All I knw is I am not going to put a target on my forehead marching with a punch of pacifists against a bunch of armed soldiers...it would be pointless.

Of course the FBI is covering up evidence, of course the CIA was the orchestrator of 9-11, of course the Media is in on it, of course the worst is all true, it is obvious to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear...hell, even our religions are a farce and lie but there must be a Creator behind it all...there must be...call upon THAT for help. Go out and stay inthe desert and try to make contact with one of the many alien races that this planet is like a zoo/test-tube for, maybe they will "Beam You Up" ; \

Protect your soul, do no evil, betray no one; do as though God was watching because all we do is branded on our souls forever.

Good luck

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
Whodunnit,
Firstly I am not a no planer so lets get that out of the way.

One of the theories regarding the Pentagon is that the perpetrators wanted to control the damage done to the Pentagon insinuating that some of these perps or their assets were inside that building. Did you know the "hijackers" managed to hit the one section of the Pentagon under renovation?? Which had been reinforced for bomb blasts? There were not that many employees working in that section otherwise the casualties would have been much higher. Lucky break!

I don't know what hit the Pentagon or the Shanksville field. Wish they would show us the videos...that would help!

Thank you for rejecting the no plane bunk. How anyone could accept the evidence for there being no planes as credible is beyond me.

Yes I'm aware of the reinforced part/protect the perps theory also. Consider that it would be much easier to send these people out on assignment or post them somewhere else if your goal was to protect them. But on the other hand, if one believes in the whole NWO bs, why would they even care to protect anyone? Or why would they even need anyone that regularly works in the building? Doesn't pass the smell test.

And I think a lot of Pentagon employees died in the renovated section. I wouldn't call that very "lucky" , would you, now that you think in those terms?

You've seen the Pentagon video. It's crappy and shouldn't be used as evidence for EITHER side. I also see no reason why any other cameras, even if there are more at the Penatgon - which isn't clear to me that there are - would show a plane. If they're on the roof, they'd be pointed DOWN, at the ground. So that they would catch folks on the ground. I just don't see them being placed horizontally. Can you think of a reason they would?

Actually, the kiosk camera would be about the only one that I see would be shooting horizontally. Can you think of another reason?

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by Whodunnit
Later, recordings or whatever can be used to go back and track them to their crash sites, certainly.

When was this "later" that you describe? As I remember it, they knew exactly when it happened. And reported it.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Your question is so vague, I'm not sure how to answer, but I'll take a stab.

Later could be whenever. 5 minutes to 5 days. Whenever they decided to document the flight tracks. Take your pick.

But they may have known real time also. I'm not sure that they knew precisely if that was 93, or 77, just a plane, or whatever.

And of course, you're quote mining my response......

One thing to point out here is that the NTSB was actually used to help identify the parts but in no report is anything positively identified.

However, this claim is directly contradicted by public comments offered by Carol Carmody, Vice-Chairman National Transportation Safety Board and Marion C. Blakey, Chairman National Transportation Safety Board, who both indicated in 2002 that FBI director Robert Mueller requested NTSB assistance with 9/11 aircraft wreckage identification and that the NTSB did perform 9/11 aircraft wreckage identification analysis.

And,

Marion C. Blakey, Chairman

So, the FBI lied and basically shut up the NTSB. This I think was to help show the appearance that a true investigation was going on. Either that or the NTSB is in on the whole conspiracy, which I don't believe.

Ask yourselves this. Why is it that the Vice Chairman and Chairman of the NTSB over the last 9 plus years has had no real Engineering background? These are the people who spearhead the investigations and report to congress the results. The law states that these people should be of an Engineering background. Also, why is it that the people currently holding these positions and for the better part of 2002-present have backgrounds that incorporate the following?

Mark V. Rosenker- Department Assistant to the President, Director of the White House Military Office-Responsible for policies, personnel and plans that involve DOD assets and direct support to the President. Also the Dept. on Interior, Federal Trade Commission and Commoditiy Future Trading Commission.

This is a man that before all of this was the Managing Director of Washington D.C. office for the "United Network for Organ Sharing"!!

Ellen Engleman Conners-She served on the transition planning team for the Department of Homeland Security,she also co-chaired the transfer of the U.S. Coast Guard to the new Department of Homeland Security.

I know that these 2 peoples backgrounds I have cherry picked but to me, this raises some questions! If the NTSB did actually investigate the sights of 911, then why wouldn't the ex members speak up about what they witnessed. The investigation is over, right?

Originally posted by Whodunnit

Originally posted by Leo Strauss

Yes I'm aware of the reinforced part/protect the perps theory also. Consider that it would be much easier to send these people out on assignment or post them somewhere else if your goal was to protect them. But on the other hand, if one believes in the whole NWO bs, why would they even care to protect anyone? Or why would they even need anyone that regularly works in the building? Doesn't pass the smell test.

And I think a lot of Pentagon employees died in the renovated section. I wouldn't call that very "lucky" , would you, now that you think in those terms?

Well one thing I am sure of is that the PTB, elitists, NWO, movers and shakers whatever you want to call them would be sure to be alligned with the most powerful military on the earth. HQ=Pentagon.

Too many people died on 9/11 and in the war on terror that is for sure!
But not nearly as many people died in the Pentagon as could have if the "plane" had hit a populated section of the building.

The thing is just like the gorilla says "We deserve a better investigation."
Wouldn't you agree?

Eighteen flags? Come on, people. IMO, this is just the Cult of No Planes doing CPR on its factually bankrupt theory.

One of the theories regarding the Pentagon is that the perpetrators wanted to control the damage done to the Pentagon insinuating that some of these perps or their assets were inside that building. Did you know the "hijackers" managed to hit the one section of the Pentagon under renovation?? Which had been reinforced for bomb blasts? There were not that many employees working in that section otherwise the casualties would have been much higher. Lucky break

Lets see - first the*SNIPE* SNIP*complain that Hani Hanjoor was a
lousy pilot who couldn't fly worth a damn. Now you claim that the
plane was flown into the side of the building which had just been
upgraded. ****************SNIP*****************

__________________________________________________________________________

Civility and Decorum are Expected: Read here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 18-3-2008 by NGC2736]

I really would wish that those of you who are against any particular theory would just make a statement that contributes to the thread. I know that sometimes it is difficult but lets all be contributors, not bashers.

So [real world] when flight (insert number here) disappears off radar and crashes we don't need to identify wreckage because we know what plane it already is.

Right.

Another 9/11 lie uncovered.

reply to post by GhostR1der


What else would it be, huh?

Originally posted by MajKarma
reply to post by jackinthebox

 

Okay, I have watched the video Taxi.To.The.Dark.Side. This is nothing new; we did this in Viet Nam and have done it where ever we go. Behind our facades of being the "Good Guys", we are the biggest terrorists and perpetuators of terror on the planet. Our son's and daughters in their time are brainwashed to do as they are told and they are told to get the job done, which in most cases is to subdue, establish control or kill.

The mess is so deep, so dark and so horrible that I have no idea what can be done. And don't kid yourself, this goes to the core of human beings, who are capable of every abomination. Watch how Police Act and can treat people they have dehumanized. Tour our prisons and social services; watch how those in control treat people. This trait in humans is what convinces me that we do in fact have Reptilian Blood/Genetics.

I am an ex-Marine but what I did in Viet Nam was nothing compared to what my father did at 50,000 feet from the B52's he piloted on bombing runs of Cambodia. We dro bombs and shoot missles from hundreds of miles away that tear women and children to pieces and claim to be the "Brave", the "Good Guys". It is all bad, it is all based on lies and greed and agendas of the few and we are all hypocrates because we won't care if our gas and lifestyles are threatened.

That is why it is our and the worlds karma that all of this must end but frankly, I have no intention of confronting for change, I am withdrawing to get as far from it all as possible.

There will be no justice in any court of any land; the crimes are too many by too many. Maybe 2012 and Planet X and the Sun going to the center of our solar system will do the house cleaning this planet needs. All I knw is I am not going to put a target on my forehead marching with a punch of pacifists against a bunch of armed soldiers...it would be pointless.

Of course the FBI is covering up evidence, of course the CIA was the orchestrator of 9-11, of course the Media is in on it, of course the worst is all true, it is obvious to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear...hell, even our religions are a farce and lie but there must be a Creator behind it all...there must be...call upon THAT for help. Go out and stay inthe desert and try to make contact with one of the many alien races that this planet is like a zoo/test-tube for, maybe they will "Beam You Up" ; \

Protect your soul, do no evil, betray no one; do as though God was watching because all we do is branded on our souls forever.

Good luck

I love this post. We aren't the good guys cause really no-one is. This is why I don't trust what happened on 9/11 and to add the lack of proper identification of the plane, it just makes it crystal clear.

No clear video of the Pentagon, No identification of the Plane's. The list goes on.

reply to post by grimreaper797

OK so the FBI pretty much said "OK, these planes are the ones that were used. No question in our minds to suggest otherwise." and therefore there is no record of positively IDing the plane that crashed.

Investigative procedure means you gather all evidence. Any rookie cop can tell you that.

Some people would read this as some conspiracy to show the FBI tried to cover up the ID of the planes.

I would certainly have some questions for whoever gave the order to not follow standard procedure.

Rational people would realize that at the time there was no reason to even suggest the planes weren't the ones they were said to be and simply pursued a different aspect of the investigation.

Rational people would expect the investigators to do their jobs. You don't go into an investigation with any pre-conceived notions. You gather all evidence, and follow the leads generated by the evidence.

At the time, they felt there was no need to prove it was in fact those 4 planes. Why is this so hard to understand?

You never know what evidence you might need in an investigation. That is why you gather all of the evidence, and ask questions later. You follow the clues left behind. You don't throw out or ignore clues to fit what you've been told.

All of that aside, the government still supposedly has possession of all the plane parts recovered. So if "at the time, they felt no need to prove it..." why have they not done so at a later date?

reply to post by Whodunnit

Also, take a plane accident. Does the FBI or NTSB investigate plane parts to make sure they have the RIGHT PLANE? No.

Um, YES actually.

EDIT to add:
The same way I put the VIN number in an accident report after a car-wreck. After a fatal wreck, or upon suspicions of a felony related to the vehicle, VIN numbers will also be verified on the frame, engine block, firewall, etc.

And as far as the NTSB goes, they investigate plane ACCIDENTS. They do this to find out what caused the accident and fix the problem. There is no reason for them to a safety investigation on 9/11 that I can see, because while they were indeed crashes, they weren't ACCIDENTS since the planes were deliberately flown into the buildings and the ground.

There was no reason for investigators to believe that Flight 93 had been deliberately flown into the ground. Mechanical failure might well have been the reason for the crash. Furrthermore, in the event of any subsequent criminal proceeding, physical evidence would be required to show that the crashes had in fact been deliberate as opposed to a mechanical failure. Do you think these investigators were really willing to drop the ball like that in what might have been the most important criminal trial in history? That such evidence might not be needed to be brought before the UN to make a case for war?

[edit on 3/19/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by Whodunnit
Obviously, if they fly out of the flight lanes, at that point it would raise concern...... but there's NO WAY to know if that's the specific plane that turned of its transponder.

V.P. Cheney's command of NORAD on 9/11 completely supports this claim BTW.

I am now a born again believer of the official story, thanks to you three card Monty argument!

Originally posted by chromatico
Eighteen flags? Come on, people. IMO, this is just the Cult of No Planes doing CPR on its factually bankrupt theory.

Sorry to disappoint you chromatico, but the "No Plane" theory does not need "CPR" as you put it. In fact, this information about the FBI which has been out for a while I believe, has little bearing here given the load of information for this theory. There are HIGHLY qualified pilots who believe there were NO planes on the day of 9/11, one that used to post here on ATS.

But, the whole point is that 9/11 was not carried out by Osama and his fellow cavemen, of that we can be sure. Of course, nothing will be done about it and we'll go on believing the next lie when something terrible happens again.


Purduegrad05