STS-75 Tether Incident - Mystery solved! Breaking News!

originally posted by: JimOberg
WITHOUT knowing these things, no conclusions reached to this point are reliable.

Your list certainly helps to put the tether incident in a wider context, Jim. So thanks for that.
But the on-topic point still is that the debunking attempts are flawed and can't be used to explain away the primary observations.
The original footage clearly shows objects crossing the tether-line in two distinct different ways, clearly indicating both in front and behind passage of objects.

Next observation is that NASA hasn't explained/debunked this evidence with anything else than unclear secondary assumptions

Therefore the conclusion must be that, to this day, the tether incident is unexplained.

-and which of course justifies the work of Martyn Stubbs and David Sereda (to name a few)..

originally posted by: Sunraged
There is also the risk that we generalise findings from specific experiments to form conclusions about things that haven't been tested.

True. And I guess that would count for both institutionalized science in general, and us peasants on the ground that base our understanding of reality on whatever consensus.

Sometimes I wonder the point of keeping everything in the unclear (not only tether incident), is about the pondering itself. Getting ready for the next evolutionary step..
We sortof know there's something more out there, but as a collective we're not quite ready for taking on the responsibilities that comes with knowledge.

In case NASA is just a cover for more advanced space programs then that could still be necessary to keep us in the dark at this point in time. That again is of course no guarantee against someone have us pay for the goods that "they" intend to keep for themselves anyway.

We sure live in interesting times..

originally posted by: wotyathink

The original footage clearly shows objects crossing the tether-line in two distinct different ways, clearly indicating both in front and behind passage of objects...

It always helps in reaching a contentious conclusion if you start out by assuming what you are trying to prove.

What do you know about the optical system used by this camera? Serious question.

MORE serious question:

If something that big passed behind the tether four days AFTER the tether separated, how come nobody on Earth saw it too?

Do the math. It would have been big enough and bright enough to be seen in daylight.

The long-suppressed realization that the dots are seen when the shuttle is approaching the tether for the first time in four days is at the very least a circumstantial indication that the dots are associated with the shuttle, not the tether. And this is supported by a viewing of the several hours of video surrounding the fly-past time, posted on youtube, that show other bursts of dots long before the tether became visible.

Has anybody bothered to watch those videos?

originally posted by: JimOberg

originally posted by: wotyathink

The original footage clearly shows objects crossing the tether-line in two distinct different ways, clearly indicating both in front and behind passage of objects...

It always helps in reaching a contentious conclusion if you start out by assuming what you are trying to prove.

If I'm trying to prove anything at all it would be proving that the debunk videos are not proof of anything. I'm done with doing that.

We probably should move to another topic/thread if you want to discuss your other points.

originally posted by: wotyathink ....


If I'm trying to prove anything at all it would be proving that the debunk videos are not proof of anything. I'm done with doing that.

We probably should move to another topic/thread if you want to discuss your other points.

Yes, we've said about all we need to about your claim.

Anybody else feel like viewing the entire tether run-up video and describing anything useful they find?

Or are youtube snippets adequate?

I'll be posting documents I have only recently obtained about the other debris-shedding events occurring on the shuttle in those days after the tether break, on my website, will advise when available. It took a lot longer than I expected, my apologies.

originally posted by: wotyathink

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: wotyathink

don't understand the problems of the resolution and contrast in this video.

Exactly which problem do you think of concerning the relevant "issue" mentioned in the post you replied to?

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: wotyathink

It's been shown that the optics cause the shapes and that what happens can be replicated.

Oh yes I'm sure that optics do shape-shift a bunch of stuff. That's why dust and fishingline can shapeshift into pacman critters? That wasn't the point though..

No the problem is with images on here and other conspiracy sites in general members that DON'T have an understanding of photography,exposure,contrast & optics have their own idea how this would/should look but very often they are mistaken.
Classic example the cross hairs in Apollo images

Cross Hairs

The reason the line apperas to be behind the object is due to exposure & contrast
shown below.

Missing Line

I gave this example on one of the Black Knight threads when someone asked how could a white object appear black it's simple exposure settings.

Here I expose for the paper it looks white.



Then I expose for the background it appears black.



The tether was very thin and at a great distance away from the ship when filmed,it has been shown that the optics of the lens can cause the shapes seen, on othter threads re this subject depth of field of the optics can also be shown to produce the effects seen and also contrast and exposure contributes to it as well.

If the objects really were at the same distance or further as the tether they would have been visible from Earth as the tether was .



Many members here are long term photographers and when you take, look and edit THOUSANDS of pictures every year you tend to have a better understanding of what is seen.

originally posted by: wmd_2008The tether was very thin and at a great distance away from the ship when filmed,it has been shown that the optics of the lens can cause the shapes seen, on othter threads re this subject depth of field of the optics can also be shown to produce the effects seen and also contrast and exposure contributes to it as well.

If the objects really were at the same distance or further as the tether they would have been visible from Earth as the tether was .

Thanks for the effort WMD!

If you have been reading you know that I do not doubt the existence of optical illusions.

What I have a problem with is the debunkes focus on the pacman critter close-up sequence in the tether footage.

The distant sequences show critters crossing the tether line in 2 distinct different manners - as illustrated in this post

If you can explain how close-to-camera dust particles / ice crystals can do that to a 70+ miles away light source, I'll listen. My line of thought is that if this was caused by optics we should be seeing one optical illusion, not two distinct different ones.
.
As for the critters being huge IF they were in close proximity of tether, or even behind; well yes they probably would need to be. That said I've no idea what it could be IF they were 70+ miles from camera.

But in case; if the camera that filmed the tether footage was capable to see more than the human eye does, then all that was seen of the critters may have been just the energy these "things" were emitting. So at this point I'm not concluding anything just on the basis of what humans could see from earth.

originally posted by: wotyathink.....

But in case; if the camera that filmed the tether footage was capable to see more than the human eye does, then all that was seen of the critters may have been just the energy these "things" were emitting. So at this point I'm not concluding anything just on the basis of what humans could see from earth.

If you actually don't even know the spectrum response for the cameras you are claiming to understand functioning of, you shouldn't be concluding ANYTHING. Conjuring up imaginary 'seeing things invisible to human eye' scenarios is a characteristic of descent into fantasy, in my experience.

Your comment seems to indicate you still haven't looked at the 70-mm shots.

a reply to: wotyathink

In the zoomed in shots the out of focus dust or ice particles look huge because they are closer to the camera in the other view when the lens has not zoomed into the tether then the depth of field plus over exposure/contrast issues come into play.

I am trying to find the posts on another thread re this that had info on the lens of the camera re depth of field , aperture etc.

I would love to see some real evidence thats why I joined here if I do I will back it but at the same time if people clutch at straws I will explain why I think so we have many members on here into photography and astrophotography posted a link to members efforts re that in an earlier post so have a look or search "calling all astrophotographers"

The STS-75 Scene List document identified the camera making the famous shots as payload bay camera A, a visible light imager, located in the forward port side bulkhead [console users guide is on my website]. That's 4-5 meters from the water dump ports where blizzards regularly emerge and leftovers drift away for hours. The 70-mm shots were through aft flight deck overhead right window, twice as far from the dispensers. A lot fewer dots show up on those images.

originally posted by: JimOberg
If you actually don't even know the spectrum response for the cameras you are claiming to understand functioning of, you shouldn't be concluding ANYTHING. Conjuring up imaginary 'seeing things invisible to human eye' scenarios is a characteristic of descent into fantasy, in my experience.

Your comment seems to indicate you still haven't looked at the 70-mm shots.

Yes I have seen quite some of the 70 mm shots. And no there's no fantasy involved in not being able to see invisible light

Regarding UV cams; I'd not take yours nor NASAs word for it, if it would be official that such a cam was not in use while the tether incident happened.

originally posted by: JimObergblizzards regularly emerge and leftovers drift away for hours.

Speculating in piss *ice crystal* blizzards I quit long ago. Such storms would occur on a regular basis. Astronauts do pee more often than only once every 20 years or so.

originally posted by: wotyathink.....
Speculating in piss *ice crystal* blizzards I quit long ago. Such storms would occur on a regular basis. Astronauts do pee more often than only once every 20 years or so.

Thanks for all the proof we need that your knowledge base is as yet inadequate to base any credible theorizing or decision-making on, but it's easy to fix once you realize the shortcoming. The vast majority of water dumps are from the fuel cell products. Waste water includes wash water and other non-urine sources. There are also dumps from the flash evaporator cooling system, elsewhere on the shuttle, and of course any propellant leaks from the thrusters [hydrazine has similar freezing point to H2O].

Speculating on sound technical knowledge is a much better approach, we can help.

originally posted by: wotyathink...
Regarding UV cams; I'd not take yours nor NASAs word for it, if it would be official that such a cam was not in use while the tether incident happened.

There was a mid-bay keel mounted UV camera watching the tether during deploy, you can recognize downlink by distinctive digital display fields on the screen.

Who else besides NASA would have reliable information on the camera layout?

What do you call the 'incident', the deploy/break [when UV images were of interest for night plasma measurements] or four days later when the shuttle overtook the loose tether [when there was no longer any scientific interest in UV observations, and the hard-mounted [I think - we should check] UV camera was pointed in the wrong direction anyway]??

originally posted by: wotyathink...


Yes I have seen quite some of the 70 mm shots. And no there's no fantasy involved in not being able to see invisible light

That's not the problem, it's imagining something visible in UV while in normal sunlight, that is NOT detectable in visible light. How does THAT work outside of a made-to-order magical miracle?

Yes Jim I fully agree. Critter storms should have been filmed on a regular basis.

I'm done here. The mystery stays unsolved.

On the occasion of the 20th anniversary I hope the OP will resume this discussion.

Here's the daily video report when the tether broke.

www.youtube.com...

Note -- no UFOs in view. Why is that?

AKA Martyn Stubbs

Congratulations to Jim . Amazing... 20 yrs. of tether debunking! You alone have kept your finger in the dike that holds all the truth about exactly what it is we are looking at on NASA flight Day video of the STS-75 mission.

This game changing mission, sent up to gather voltage from space & re distribute it, as a controlled experiment, back into the vacuum of space. This was to be watched live by scientists who controlled the TOPS (Tether optical phenomena camera). This 4 spectrum camera has filters to eliminate stray light, allowing a study of the near field environment which they expected to show any optical phenomena that may occur due to the voltage release.

And they went to all this trouble & expense because they did indeed, expect to see something new & strange!

THEY GOT IT! Just not the way they expected. Not in free drift & squirting massive voltage into space.

So we got a rare & stunning look at UFO Phenomena reacting to this...called a UFO game changer...a Smoking Gun!

ENTER Jim Oberg with his "Oberg Ice Theory" and the games began, & have continued right up to this great thread.

Unlike some, I love the skeptics posting this crazy line of debate. Ice this is not. It will come out...it just takes time.
Jim, based on what I know about this UFO phenomena on the NASA video, & how ever-present it is on all the video. I would say that I no longer have the luxury of disbelief.

Thus I do not believe for a second, that you do not know the truth about this phenomena we all see on the videos. In fact I no longer believe that you are a UFO skeptic! Jim Oberg a super bright misinformation expert who uses the skeptical community to present this crazy "Oberg Ice Theory".

And it has held sway here on this ATS thread as we can see. You are correct to insist that this is a NEAR FIELD phenomena.
That is the biggest problem for UFO researchers to get past. Everyone wants these UFOs to be 'garden variety' craft, large enough to holds human sized occupants.

Even the night vision "farmer-in-a-field" UFO videos that people post, are full of claims of UFOs mingling with the stars. (stars are of course light years away!) or of gigantic space ships.

In truth, what they are seeing as UFOs moving in the shies, are objects that are very close to the camera.

That is the only thing that Jim Oberg gets right in commenting about my NASA video discovery of the 'Tether Incident'. The tether video is unique in that it shows all the various UFO phenomena, in various shapes and sizes that are everywhere in the vacuum of space..ever-present. Some are indeed large. but the near field is the best bet for study.

Skeptics play on our stubborn nature & use the near field "Oberg Ice Theory", convinced that we all believe that ONLY Ice can be in the near field, close to the Shuttles & space Station.They think we a stupid!

They underestimate us. I have revisited the evidence I have on the entire STS-75 mission, & the more I fly in space, via the flight day downlinks (I have every second of this mission in my vast NASA Archive), the more I am convinced, with certainty, that the UFO phenomena is not only real, but literally, everywhere.

You just need to know what it is you are looking for & how to find it. They are far more mysterious, complicated & interesting than the conventional UFO theorists present. The NASA video is super important because it is unimpeachable.
And because this is in the vacuum of space, there is not a lot of things it could be.

Ice it is not! Jim Oberg has never shown us space ice,in full color & close & clear!! Why not? NASA has all the video & more. Astronauts brought video & film from missions back to earth by hand. Lots of video they took was never downloaded. As we see on so many other Tether mission mission videos showing UFOs...

NASA cameras pan off space assets & follow..according to JIM Oberg...Space ice particles that are small, ever present & close to the shuttle. So show us the money shot!!!

I don't believe he can. So I took a look again & knowing just what to look for I found a clear sequence, in close up, of the UFO Phenomena rotating & reflecting as it moves around the CARGO Bay. This is not ice!! On this raw, seemingly innocent sequence, the NASA camera follows the the UFO out of the Cargo Bay & out into space where it moves away & meets another 2 UFOs, also rotating & reflecting. They all move at the same speed but rotate & reflect differently. Thus the
UFO propulsion is has nothing to do with the UFO movement.

This UFO is really small. It behaves & looks exactly as "Oberg Ice" does . Check mate Jim. So now you must provide the same showing ..well..ICE.

Not going happen!
So I given moved this new smoking gun video on to the video experts here in Hollywood North. It has been copied, passed around & studied. All I can say here is... that I can not say what the UFOs are, but I can now tell you what the UFOs are not.

The Tether video is even more interesting now than ever. It's a used Tether. It was cut from the STS-46 Tether, that also broke. They TRAINED ON A NEW TETHER, yet used a flawed old one (?) Why... NASA claimed at the post tether break press conference that it was no big deal.

Yet the STS-75 Mission was critical to tether dynamic study & cost more that half a billion dollars. The hardware was a 100 million dollar Satellite. The tether break could have damaged or destroyed the shuttle & killed the crew. As CAPCOM says
on the video..if it had to break, it did it in the right place!! WOW...what if it did not break in the right place??? The odds were with the WRONG place.

The re-used Tether from STS-46 was not cheap. NASA spent an additional 1.3 million in hardware costs to prepare it for the STS-75.

At the same press conference, NASA insisted, over & over that no voltage was flowing through the tether when it broke?? The STS-46 Tether was supposedly cut by ORBITING DEBISE (?) Is that what really happened on this mission too...
or was it the OBERG ICE ... swarming the shuttle as JIM feels it was...or was it the UFO Phenomena that we can see faintly on the video of the Tether breaking? Check out that video again everyone & you will see them.

The next big question is are the UFOs alive.



The next big question is..ARE THESE VUFOs ALIVE?

a reply to: buzzEmiller

Welcome back, Martyn, glad you are well. Replies to follow!

originally posted by: buzzEmiller
....
This game changing mission, sent up to gather voltage from space & re distribute it, as a controlled experiment, back into the vacuum of space. This was to be watched live by scientists who controlled the TOPS (Tether optical phenomena camera). This 4 spectrum camera has filters to eliminate stray light, allowing a study of the near field environment which they expected to show any optical phenomena that may occur due to the voltage release.

And they went to all this trouble & expense because they did indeed, expect to see something new & strange!

THEY GOT IT! Just not the way they expected. Not in free drift & squirting massive voltage into space.

So we got a rare & stunning look at UFO Phenomena reacting to this...called a UFO game changer...a Smoking Gun!

Cool, So you believe that the TOPS camera was being used to observe the swarm that appeared after the tether broke?

How SOON after the break did the swarm appear?

originally posted by: buzzEmiller
.... I have revisited the evidence I have on the entire STS-75 mission, & the more I fly in space, via the flight day downlinks (I have every second of this mission in my vast NASA Archive), the more I am convinced, with certainty, that the UFO phenomena is not only real, but literally, everywhere.

Glad to hear you have revisited the evidence. What do you think the crew's handheld 70-mm photographs show, and why -- to the best of my knowledge -- have you never acknowledged they even exist?

originally posted by: buzzEmiller
....
At the same press conference, NASA insisted, over & over that no voltage was flowing through the tether when it broke?? The STS-46 Tether was supposedly cut by ORBITING DEBISE (?) Is that what really happened on this mission too...
or was it the OBERG ICE ... swarming the shuttle as JIM feels it was...or was it the UFO Phenomena that we can see faintly on the video of the Tether breaking? Check out that video again everyone & you will see them.

WHERE did you get the idea the tether was cut by orbital debris? I think you're just imagining things. Show us proof you're not.