There is no civilisation on mars. Period.

Originally posted by redshirt0202
They have to, because if they say "well....we don't know" you're going to have all those conspiracy people on the forums saying that NASA is trying to hide UFOs etc.

I'm suggesting the DO know, and aren't telling.

Ice crystals can change direction when the thrusters of the shuttle are fired. Debris can collide with other debris (which we might not see if it's to small or not illuminated) causing it to change direction.

In some footage we know this is clearly impossible, due to the scale of the objects and their movement/relative position/relative speed.

The Case for NASA UFOs

David Sereda isn't the best narrator, but the footage is impressive; some of it is pretty damning. He gets into some odd theories about quantized states and such, but if you set that stuff aside and concentrate on the footage and what we know of position/scale/speed of objects caught in the footage it speaks for itself.

reply to post by xnibirux



I did watch that YouTube footage of his presentation in Vegas...where he talked for the first time (it was posted March 6) publicly about "Dan" the guy from Montauk (who will not come forward).

He also said that all the technology for the 'jump room' scenario had been dismantled, didn't he? And that the (real) reason we went invaded Iraq was to secure the technology that Khadaffi had given to Saddam Hussein which would allow them to build the same kind of thing? (Somehow endangering the globe.)

It was very, very interesting...although a lot of the physics did swoosh right over my head.

Stupid glitch.......

Just to make the page roll over....

There might have been life on mars. There might be life under the surface. There might also be a Father Christmas, and there might also be a Tooth Fairy.

Just because something "could be" does not make it plausible or indeed something anyone with a rational mind should spend time pouring over.

Science works by first observing something, then creating a hypothesis about that which has been observed, then forming an experiment that can provide evidence to either shore up the hypothesis, or to blow it out of the water. When discussing mars, we seem to have leapt past every step except the last one.

There is no evidence for past/present civilisations on mars. The fossilised bacteria/squiggles is a good bet, but no-one knows for sure if they are the remains of bacteria from mars.

First things first, people - find some evidence that points to a civilisation existing or having existed on mars, THEN start banging on about whether it is from a civilisation. Don't start out with "I wish there was life on mars, either now or ages ago" then try to shoe-horn in random baseless theories devoid of evidence while all the time ignoring actual scientific research.

NASA has absolutely NO reason to hide finding life on other planets - heck, when the above-mentioned meteorite was found to have nanostructures similar to bacteria, Bill Clinton went on the TV to tell everyone about it. That doesn't sound like a cover-up to me, in fact quite the opposite, as they didn't know if they were bacteria or not at the time.

I'm all for a good conspiracy, but if it's bat-poop crazy such as NASA hiding signs of extraterrestrial life, it's a joke. A bad joke.

Originally posted by redshirt0202
I recently noticed that a lot of people were speculating about the existance of advanced civilisations on mars (some even on the moon) and I think this is complete BS.

Think about it, if there were an active advanced civilisation on mars/the moon, why haven't we picked up their radio signals yet? Surely they must have some method of communicaton and like on earth, where all radio and tv signals are also send into space, they would send theirs into space too and we would've picked them up by now.

Any thoughts?

[edit on 17-3-2008 by redshirt0202]

Well we can never prove/disprove this matter till the time comes, so I speak from my own personal experience. We rely on our technology as a method of coummincating (radio signal, etc..) but a intellegent civilization my use some other method way beyod we know, so there is no reason why they would use radio signal, infact they don't want the majority to even know about them yet as we're NOT ready to accept this idea as we're socially, culturally conditioned NOT to accept any other ET in this enormous universe which we know so little about.

I've only seen or had one "lucid dream (out of body experience)" with Aliens in it. It was in a place that looked exactly as Mars (somehow I knew it was mars) but it wasn't as red, kinda looked like earth but didn't see any vegetation. Went inside this building (kinda hidden in the sand/hill. Saw lot of humans lined up by a door (inside building), all seem very confused as if they had no idea where they were, but were all calm. I walked ahead of them saw some "alien creature", moved into this lit room at the end of the hallway. Saw a human and two aliens stand beside each other, wearing this "doctor uniform" in front of this table. They looked very peaceful, although it was all so real that I can even feel the cold temperature and smell metallic scent.

They looked at me with confusion and the human said "what are you doing here?" i said "I was curious", it said "not your time yet" and so I precisted and said "I really want to know", the one human replied saying "we're upgrading humans". I got the impression all those people were taken somehow in their dream, they weren't really physically there but as soul or something. I then don't remember anything else, woke up feeling very numb for about 5-10 min. Then when I was able to move my body, I felt my right arm was very sour (as if I got shot with needle) put my hand over my arm, then felt this bump there. Looked at it later and there is something about an inch width in my right arm, no cuts/insertion, it's very shallow right under the skin. i can actually kinda move it a bit as I push it. It's solid, whatever it is.

I don't want to take it out as I felt comfortable with them putting in me, so we'll see what happens. But the place looked like Mars.

vze, your are correct about Dr. Levin's information from the Mars Viking lander missions on biological microbial life being sabotaged. Remember what I told you do not stop showing your ground zero photos of Mars you are unmasking. Yes again we have to thank NASA for the masked photos they provide.

Even though the late Carl Sagan is not here to speak on the matter he was known in many circles as the foremost proponent for the search for life on other planets including our solar system.

I believe Carl Sagan had inside information that life existed in our solar system. Do you realize Sagan wanted a directional flashlight installed on the Viking landers, and mission control told him no way. Furthermore he told them to set out bait at night fall with nutrients because he thought larger animals on Mars would lick on the nutrients. Instead of referring to these as microbes as on Earth they were referred to as Macrobes.

Thru the slurry nutrient mix eventually used to lure microbes to the Viking mission Dr. Levin was able to detect the release of methane after the microbes ingested the slurry mixture.

Yes Dr. Levin had to low key his findings of what he totally knows about life on Mars because of his secrecy agreement and because his retirement benefits are at stake.

Do I believe life exists on Mars? Yes, absolutely I will bet my life on it and what will the rest of you bet that there is no life on Mars? Your next question will be how am I so sure life exists on Mars? Because I can see it with my own eyes and most of you can not. Rik Riley




[edit on 18-3-2008 by rikriley]

While I'll agree that there likely isn't any civilization (though there likely is some degree of life) on Mars, the radio/tv wave argument isn't exactly sound...

It took man THOUSANDS of years before we were sending out such signals. Does the absence of radio signals disprove an ancient-Egyptian tech level society on Mars (i.e. large monuments seen from space)? No.

Also, it is actually more likely that they stumbled on to other forms of communication, than the odds of them developing the exact same tech as we did... Moreover, just as you won't see many 8-tracks these days, their use of radio or tv could be far in the past (after all, in a few years, WE won't be doing much tv broadcasting ourselves, will all be digital and via cable or encrypted satellite signals) and radio probably isn't that far behind!

Why does everyone use the TV/Radio argument? Man has been around for around 200,000 years, yet the projection for the total amount of time we'll be using radio and tv (planet-wide) is more like 200 years tops. That's not a big chunk of our presence on this planet...so if we're really going to use ourselves as a model, we have to consider this VERY small window of detecting such signals. (then, we have to consider that the alleged Martians could have had their 200 years of tv and radio over 2000 years ago, so there wasn't anything on Earth capable of receiving the signal then!)

[edit on 18-3-2008 by Gazrok]

One can never proove a negative.

To say that something IS NOT possible, therefore is an extremely weak arguement.

I agree, that it is unlikely, but to say its impossible is just shortsighted and weak. I hope you have PROOF that there IS NO civ on mars.

Well? wheres your proof that it does NOT exist? See my point? Your premise is weak and shortsighted (even though it may be true, but how can one proove that?)

I hope you realize this next time you go throwing accusations of negatives around...

its harder to proove it never happened than to proove it did happen.

Originally posted by Grock
One can never proove a negative.

To say that something IS NOT possible, therefore is an extremely weak arguement.

Oh man.....that 'prove a negative' thing is getting trite.

It's only an extremely weak argument if both sides of the discussion have an equal shortage of valid evidence. In this case, there is a great deal of evidence supporting the notion that there is no civilization on Mars.....sadly, some of that evidence may support the conclusion that there has never been a civilization. The other side of the argument has, sadly, zip evidence to support its position. Not saying it's wrong.....simply has no support. That's why the ol' "can't prove a negative" is thrown out in an attempt to knock the solid support out of a solid argument.

Alright, let's all try a different approach.

1.) People who believe that there IS an advanced civilisation on mars, please post your evidence!

2.) People who believe that there ISN'T an advanced civilisation on mars, please do the same.

In the end we'll see which side has more evidence to support it's view. This is going to be interesting!

Originally posted by MrPenny

Originally posted by goosdawg
Any species/civilization that exploits and exhausts it's resources, including it's own members - to the point of extinction - can not be considered sufficiently evolved to be judged "enlightened."

Says you.

Aye, says I!!

And every enlightened philosophy on this blue marble.

Originally posted by MrPenny
Empirical data shows that what is occurring here on Earth, is the norm.

And that's a good thing?!

The rape and pillage of an entire planet? :shk:

Originally posted by MrPenny
It may very well be exactly what we're supposed to do; otherwise, what incentive is there to get off this rock and expand?

And it may very well be what we, as a species, need to transcend this desire to subjugate everything in our path so that we, as a species, can responsibly join the enlightened and mature civilizations amongst the stars.

Originally posted by MrPenny
There is nothing to show that what is occurring here hasn't been occurring, is still occurring, and will continue to occur everywhere in the Universe.

Likewise, there is nothing to suggest that crapping in one's own nest until the overflowing feces force one to move on is the exception, rather than the true universal norm.

Why would sophisticated entities wish to have a spoiled, soiled and reeking child amongst their midst?

Which takes us back to the topic at hand, an advanced civilization would, by design, remain hidden from those with which they do not wish to associate.

Period.

reply to post by vze2xjjk


Could you maybe draw a circle around the 'baby'? I still don't see a baby. I don't see a middle aged Martian, either. I can see something that looks like a face....but it could shadows from rocks and stuff. Actually...it reminds me of Santa Claus. Personally, I think the 'glassy tubes' are the most organic-looking thing I've seen from the (limited) Mars photos I've seen. Those and the evidence of methane.

Originally posted by goosdawg
And that's a good thing?!

The rape and pillage of an entire planet? :shk:

Are you talking to me? Let me go back and re-read my lines.....nope, didn't say that. I guess you weren't referring to my words.....you must have just made a simple mistake.

Which takes us back to the topic at hand, an advanced civilization would, by design, remain hidden from those with which they do not wish to associate.

By design? Not our design apparently.....otherwise all of those European explorers were doing a miserable job of staying hidden from the indigenous tribes they exploited and proselytized.

For all we know, any civilization that may have existed on Mars did exactly what we're doing.....with the results that we see; a dead planet.

And by the way....which mature civilizations are you referring to, the Romulans? Vulcans?

So far I've seen two options

A) there is no civilization on mars and
B) there is a civilization on mars

But that seems to skip over the more likely scenario that C)

There was a civilization on mars in the past, which collapsed due to wars and the loss of Mars' atmosphere.

If this was significantly long ago, perhaps millions of years, there could be virtually no traces left on the surface other than large monuments (such as the face and pyramids and whatever else the wonderful people over at NASA are instructed to airbrush and remove from photos or simply withold entirely from public view, because they are a military apparatus).

If the Martian inhabitants in the past knew ahead of time that their atmosphere would fail, they most likely had time to prepare or already had under-surface provisions available to those that chose to stay. These underground/undersea bases were probably discovered by us with the help of more knowledgeable residents of this solar system.

/point to the moon
/point to the ground

Logic demonstrates that solar systems go through trauma during their lifetimes, and a civilization would probably abandon the surface of their world or leave their world entirely if it was no longer suitable or habitable. The loss of magnetosphere does not mean that life, especially intelligent.. civilization-level life would cease to exist there. If it did exist there, it would most likely adapt by seeking shelter within the planet itself, negating any need for a magnetosphere to protect them from the sun.

There never was, but soon there will be. Just keep on waiting, watch and see

If as they say mars at one time had an atmosphere and water.
I'll about guarantee you there was life of some sort there.
Maybe not a civilization but life of some sort.
And you'll have to do alot of digging to find the fossil record of it.
The probes are not going to land on them.
Hell, for all we know there could be an advanced life form in our oceans.

[edit on 18-3-2008 by TimeTracker]

WOW! Where did logic go?

@redshirt0202- Dude your obsessed with radio just like SETI, its ridiculas. Haven't you heard about Einstien's "spooky" physics? We silly Hu-mons have been able to link 2 particles in a lab in such a way, that no mater how far apart they are, a change in the state of one instantly changes the state of the other, what's the big deal you ask? It means we have limitless, rangless, realtime faster-than-light communications with out radio waves, or wires, or lasers. This is what WE have and we are too primitive to openly be talked to by the intergalactic community, what do you think they have? Besides THAT, you don't seem to know much about radio, even privates in the Army have encripted radio coms, that YOU can't pick up or understand or tell it isn't static, regular infantry, WORSE we mechanics had THAT! You also keep assuming that if proof was found YOUR so important, that it could not have happened with out someone personaly informing YOU. (/rant)

@ the dude with the freaky pics, WHAT THE HELL IS THAT SUPPOSED TO BE???!!! Don't post them again, it won't help lol.

DISCLAIMER: I know Hogland is not universaly agreed upon, but you'd be crazy to agree with ANYONE 100% of the time any way, sain or not I find these pics to still be interesting and worth consideration at least.

How about THESE pics, though? Not intelligent, but a start to show some life. :

The Curious Case of the NASA Crinoid Cover-Up.

The VERY first place Oppritunity drills, HAPPENS to look like a fossil? Hmmm.

Not enough? OK, what about THIS ONE?:

Martian "Bunny"?

Now, every skeptic and debunker, always says the face on mars is just a mountain, I say SO WHAT? You haven't looked around the rest of the region. The other interesting things around the face, combined with the IR images make a strong case for more exploration of the imeadiate area at the very least. Just look these over, and THEN honestly tell me its ALL just wierd bumps and random hills. Remember, these all line with north/south more than is natural.

Mars Odyssey 2001Cydonia Infrared Images

I have no clue if these are real but I'd sure like to find out, wouldn't you? In the end, don't you all WANT there to be a civilisation on Mars? Wouldn't the world be a better, brighter, more interesting place if we had someone to meet us when we finaly get to Mars? If so, what good does it do ANYONE to just say there aren't any period? I don't buy that BS line "be open minded, sure, but not so open that your brain falls out" that's what small minded people say to justify thier own cowardace when faced with a scary or difficult truth!

again @redshirt0202- Your nick name is a star trek referance, how can you call your self a Rodenberry fan and be so closed to civilisation on mars? Never seen a Romulan cloak sheild? What about the intelligent sand episode? Enterprise-D had a full sensour sweep and missed them. Don't raise sheilds and go to red alert at every idea you don't like, instead open hailing frequencies, do a full sensor sweep of the area, set course to boldly go where no man has gone before, and make it so! An old Klingon proverb "You feel a thousand deaths by fearing ONE!" Your brain is falling out a million times, by fearing it will but ONCE!

Go ahead all you nay sayers, burry your head in the sand, plug your ears and sing "la la la laaaaa NOT HEARING YOOOOOOUUUUU, la la laaaaaaaaa!!!!" see how much you learn from it.

Me? I'm gonna support those going to Mars, I'm gonna keep my eyes and ears peeled for more info, and see what happens! I can't wait to find out more, how about you?

reply to post by redshirt0202


I dont think advanced civilizations that MAY be on Mars, are going to have evolved in the same manner as us. They have a completely different atmosphere. Why would they have tv signals if the old style gas bulbs that make tvs are not available on mars, therefore never being a tv. And what if they dont have eyes that seein the spectrum that a tv displays in?

Radio waves.. same thought, why would you assume they have radios, they might not even have vocal cords and talk telepathiclly across kilometers.. no need for radios..

Proof is still needed, either way..



[edit on 19-3-2008 by mindping]

reply to post by redshirt0202

Hey and... what about Venus!!

Here's to see:www.burlingtonnews.net...

Is this web site well known?
Can we trust them?
Can we have a external proof? (not the same paper on a different web site)
Have you ever heard about Wilburt B. Smith, ex-director of the Department of Interplanetary Affairs(CANADA)?
Tank You

Originally posted by NewWorldOver
The only person we can get information from is NASA who has been proven again and again to cover things up.

The only evidence that anyone has for NASA covering things up is that there are those among us who suspect something to be true, but NASA disagrees. They have the evidence. We don't. Our saying there are bases on Mars doesn't, if you'll excuse the expression, make it so.

There is no thriving civilised life on Mars. This seems a safe statement to make based on signs any respectably equipped amateur astronomer could detect. Speculation on what constitutes a civilisation can only be restrivted to the things we know about civilisations that have sprung up on earth over the millennia, but I still say it's a safe bet, civilised bacteria notwithstanding.

If there were a civilisation on Mars, what steps need they take to hide from us and why would they do it?

Agreed, we have a naturally violent tendency and that might be sufficient motivation, but we also believe that other alien races are visiting us daily, don't we? Are they hiding from them, as well? Should we be taking their lead and hiding ourselves underground and stifling our energy output and radio waves? No, because it would be a futile exercise. Why wouldn't martians also consider it a time/energy/resource-consuming and pointless thing to do?

Are there transdimensional beings living in the anti-phase of Mars harmonics? If yes, so what? That is certainly a discovery for another science, apart from astronomic anthropology.

As most everyone here, I am open to the possibility that civilisation has at some point in its history arisen on Mars. I wouldn't accept coincidentally familiar rock formations to convince me, though. A few cave paintings, on the other hand, would do the trick.

And almost nobody has ever declared the world to have been flat, not since the dawn of ocean navigation at the very latest. Horizons were clearly observed to slope away from the observer. Sailors and scientists realised this. Nobody else really cared. Why should they? Would it change the life of a farmer or of a hunter if he thought about it at all?

Life on Mars: Almost certainly in some form
Civilisation on Mars: What odds are you offering and when can I collect my winnings?