My daughter forced to be "pro-lifer"

Originally posted by DEUCE N CHICA
If you're truly a Catholic then I suggest you take a close look at the church's stance on abortion. It’s not really a gray area. The murder of an unborn child is still murder in the eyes of God.

Any reasonable catholic has to differ with the teachings of the catholic church. It is morally bankrupt. How can it forbid contraception when so many children in Africa have aids?

Originally posted by SteveAndrew
So your getting angry that the teachers are expressing a certain viewpoint when in fact your aware that it's a Catholic school? Neither you nor the school should influence your child's decision but you should tell your son/daughter that there are 2 sides of this and let your child decide what he/she wants to do.

It is up to you to see fit when you tell your child this. Just tell you son/daughter to do the project and if he/she wants to talk about it, do.

So maybe this project isn't about YOUR opinion. Maybe this is a chance to look at and learn about the other side of the argument. I went to a public high school that did not allow religion at all. I also had several teachers who assigned us a side to a controversial topic (stem cell research for example) and we were required to do research and learn both sides of the story. I walked away with a much better understanding of the subject and a better understanding of my stance even though I supported the opposite view from what I held. Don't always take it as a teacher pushing his/her beleifs so much as giving an opportunity to learn another side of the story.

Yeah, Ijust can't see this as saying that shes forced to be a pro-lifer, she was just forced to look at that aspect of the debate.

And I think thats great.

Its good to have to look at the other side of the debate.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Then you're basing your decision on opinion and not what the Catholic Church's stance is. If this little girl is going to a Catholic school then it is there right to teach what is morally correct and incorrect.

I mean, that IS why it's a Catholic school right? So that eager young minds can learn about the teachings of the Catholic Church.

reply to post by rizla


No that is incorrect.

As for children in Africa... what would you have God do??? Make this a perfect world?
In my opinion he tried that once and man broke his heart. Do you think that God enjoys seeing people suffer? Do you think that God enjoys people's sorrow?
God allows this because not because he enjoys it but because it's necessary. God suffers WITH the children in Africa and the homeless and starving in America, and the bruised and beaten and raped and he will reward them after this physical world.

Originally posted by rizla

Originally posted by DEUCE N CHICA
If you're truly a Catholic then I suggest you take a close look at the church's stance on abortion. It’s not really a gray area. The murder of an unborn child is still murder in the eyes of God.

Any reasonable catholic has to differ with the teachings of the catholic church. It is morally bankrupt. How can it forbid contraception when so many children in Africa have aids?

No that is incorrect.

As for children in Africa... what would you have God do??? Make this a perfect world?
In my opinion he tried that once and man broke his heart. Do you think that God enjoys seeing people suffer? Do you think that God enjoys people's sorrow?
God allows this because not because he enjoys it but because it's necessary. God suffers WITH the children in Africa and the homeless and starving in America, and the bruised and beaten and raped and he will reward them after this physical world.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Originally posted by DEUCE N CHICA
However, for anybody who is disagreeing with me right now, and I’m sure there are plenty, ask yourself where would you be right now if you’re mommy had flushed you down the toilet… or had you sucked out with a vacuum cleaner… or your spine pierced with a knife before your head came out of her.

According to Catholic teachings, I'd be in purgatory, waiting for Jesus to call my number to decide whether I have overcome the sin his dad filled my soul with for the crime of being descended from Adam and Eve. Eventually that number will roll around and I'd be allowed into an eternity of bliss and contentment.

I don't disagree with you, by the way. What I will disagree with is the idea that abortion needs to be illegal. Women got abortions back before Roe vs. Wade, and they will continue to do so if it is deemed illegal. I would prefer it remain legal, so they at least have access to trained professionals in a medical atmosphere, and aren't holed up in a Motel 6 letting their boyfriends root around in their uterus with a coat hanger.

Then you're basing your decision on opinion and not what the Catholic Church's stance is. If this little girl is going to a Catholic school then it is there right to teach what is morally correct and incorrect.

I mean, that IS why it's a Catholic school right? So that eager young minds can learn about the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Originally posted by DEUCE N CHICA

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Originally posted by DEUCE N CHICA

According to Catholic teachings, I'd be in purgatory, waiting for Jesus to call my number to decide whether I have overcome the sin his dad filled my soul with for the crime of being descended from Adam and Eve. Eventually that number will roll around and I'd be allowed into an eternity of bliss and contentment.

Are you sure it was God the Father that gave us our sins or was it passed down from man to man starting with Adam.

As for a number system... I'm sure The Father, Son and Spirit have developed a way to process things a bit quicker than waiting in the service line at the DMV.

Originally posted by wrathchild
No matter what parents WANT their child to believe in, they will, in time make their own decisions. But as a parent, you want to have the most influence, not some stranger. That's kinda been my whole point.

Hello I thought i'd pop in on this crontroversial subject. First off though you say that as a parent you have the most influence. Recent studies by the American child psychologist Judith Rich Harris suggest otherwise. According to Harris peer influences are critical forces in childhood, and far more important than parents once you have factored out the genetic contribution. This is starting to gain quite widespread support. Just something I wanted to throw out there but thats a little off topic.

I'll be honest being from england the whole pro life pro choice thing, well I find it a little hard to understand. I mean over in the US and canada you seem to take it very very seriously. Much more than we do over here.

I mean i'll put myself out there and tell you all i'm "pro choice" and i'm possibly going to get some critisism from some people on here. But if I was to say that over here I might get one or two people say something but most would just let it go. Most people my age over here are pretty much for he choice thesedays anyway.

As for beign taught things in school, I think that if they are being taught pro life and having it pushed on them thats wrong, both sides of any arguement need to be addressed for people to make up their own minds. However being a catholic school I would have assumed that this would be their standpoint.

Peace!

Not sure if it has been ask already, but have you thought to ask your daughter her thoughts on the pro-life pro-choice issue?

I mean by the eighth grade I already knew the difference and was on the way to making my own choices on the issue.

True as a parent you want to be the biggest influence on your child’s life but by that age she should already be having their own ideas on issues that might not agree with yours. I’m not saying she is mature enough to make the choice by herself but she is still learning let her decide if she wants to do the poster or not.
Regardless if you tell her not to do it or the teacher tells her to do it both of you are forcing your belief on the subject on her.

The school put out an assignment if your child thinks it is against her belief system she should be encouraged to speak with both the parents and teacher about this. If on the other hand she believes it is right she should also be encouraged to follow that belief even if you do not agree with it.


This is nothing more than a poster; it is not like she is making the decision due to pregnancy. I would ask your daughter what she thought about the subject if I were you. You never know she might be pretty well informed about the subject and already have her own opinion on it. After all are we not trying to get our children to have their own opinions as this is a part of growing up?


For the record I am not for abortion. I know there are times when many feel it is necessary so I personally cannot force another to choose my opinion by taking away that right. But I will say that it should not be allowed as a form of birth control, this is where facing responsibilities comes to play. If you are willing to do the deed you better be willing to face the consequences be it pregnancy or STD.

Raist

Originally posted by Raist
But I will say that it should not be allowed as a form of birth control, this is where facing responsibilities comes to play. If you are willing to do the deed you better be willing to face the consequences be it pregnancy or STD.

Raist

So are you in favor of denying insulin to people with type 2 diabetes as well? After all, they madethe choice to be sugar-addict *SNIP* they should have to face the music, right?

[edit on 14-3-2008 by NGC2736]

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Well, if you believe in Darwinism, hell yes, they should.

Survival of the fittest.

reply to post by Holygamer


Nice straw man. Do you have a tin man and a lion to go along with it?

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


I am not sure how you figure that medical help for a diabetic is the same as possibly taking a person’s life but I guess some people think differently. Insulin for a diabetic only saves their life preventing an abortion for someone who could not control sexual urges correctly is saving a life and sustain the other. Sexual urges can be taken care of responsibly but there are risks if you cannot handle the risk don’t do it. Sort of like sky diving you know you can die but many do it anyway. If they die it is their fault for skydiving when they could have stayed on the ground or do you disagree with that too?

Quite honestly though if you make a choice that you know could have consequences opposing what you want to happen further in the future you might want to reconsider. As I said with skydiving, I have a choice to stay on the ground it might not be as fun (really I would not skydive I hate heights and find jumping out of a good airplane to be ludicrous) or I can take the chance that I will die. Either way I need to be adult enough to face the decision I make.

Are you trying to sway my thoughts on the subject? Because if so you might need to find a better way of doing it, I feel no pity for those who bring things on themselves. Choosing to have sex is choosing to take the risks involved plain and simple. It is because people do not wish to step up to responsibility that it is used as birth control. If you are not willing or able to take care of a kid or yourself if you get an STD you need to keep your junk in your pants. This could be why 1 in 4 teenage girls have an STD now don’t you think? People not looking at what could happen in the future?

www.usatoday.com...

www.cnn.com...


Raist

Reminder time!

Courtesy Is Mandatory

One Line Responses

General ATS Discussion Etiquette

Reminding is so much more fun than U2Us and pulling points.

Let's keep it conversational.

Cuhail

FYI..... I live in St.Albert, Alberta Canada.

In St.Albert they have an unique school system unlike most. Being a suburb of a city-Edmonton which has a public school board and a Catholic school board as it is the same across most of Canada.

I went through the very same Catholic school system as my daughter and never experienced the level of "religion" that is in place now.

When I was in school, religion class was an easy credit and a easy "A". Other than maybe an hour a week of religious studies it was no different than the more secular schools. That was in the 70's and 80's. Now it's become far more religious.

Well theres a crusade of Christianity at the moment to really "step it up" because they see modern times as a loosing battleground. "debachery, alternative lifestyles, and atheists...oh my."

So Its to be expected that the catholic schools now are much more...ugh...catholic.

reply to post by Raist


You asserted that the person should have to live with the consequences of their actions, in the part I quoted you on. I wanted to know if that applied to other self-inflicted medical situations. If a man shoots himself in the head but doesn't die, do you advocate prohibiting treatment? How about a soldier wounded in wartime, if you treat him, he'll return to the front and probably kill more people. A gangbanger gets taken down in a shootout that claimed five innocents, should he just lay there drowning in his own blood nbecause, hey, his choice.

Should smokers be denied lung transplants, or alcoholics livers? People with eating problems should be denied insulin, and skydivers should be refused treatment for broken bones?

I doubt you'd agree with any of this. But when it comes to sex, you apparently want there to be punishment, living with the consequences, no treatment, no alternatives.

I'm not trying to sway you. However I would suggest you pay a little more objective attention to the information you're basing your position off of. Like you, I find abortion to be vile and disgusting. I won't go so far as murder or manslaughter - unless you've got more money than I can imagine, that fetus is not going to be viable before seven months, if that - but I find the positions taken and hte rhetoric used by the "pro-life" sorts to be pretty vile as well.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Just a sad fact of life. The strong survive. They are just lucky to live in a time when medicine can support something they naturally should've died from. Maybe for the support of the human race, to keep the genes strong, we shouldn't let them take insulin? Atleast that would rid us the head of PETA...so that would be one benefit, right?

Trust me....
My mother who is in her 70's, and an devout Catholic would have a nervous breakdown if I transferred my daughter out of a Catholic school. Also my daughter has a ton of friends in school and it would destroy her if she moved.

that's the only reason she is still in the Catholic system.

Catholicism used to be easy church to be a part of especially if you were not a "fundamentalist". Go to church, stand up, sit down, stand up, sit down, then you were done. Nothing evangelical, evolution was cool, no one was gonna burn in hell. Breakfast at Denny's then watch football. that was it. That's why I remained a Catholic. Apparently today's religious climate has had an effect.

BTW.. most Catholics I know just laugh off the Popes' ridiculus stance on birth control and stem cell research, hence my stance on the "pro-life" movement.