Royal Order of Jesters testify about Illegal Drugs, Child Prostitution

Originally posted by lost in the midwest
Taking the E-mail on face value, did you not catch the following line: I had fallen within a deep hole and my cable-tow had been severed.
The writer is admitting to the fact that his behavior was un-masonic and that his actions were not those of a true mason. Our cable-tow stands for our obligation to the fraternity and its tenants

Maybe the writer admits to the fact that these activities where "un-masonic", for me that doesnt take anything from the fact that :

These were a constant occurrence at our Jester functions and they are a common occurrence today. The initiation practices have not changed as well. Prostitutes were offered/made available at our functions and often brothers would have sex in front of other brothers.

Oral sex competitions between brothers were considered “fun” activities to build a strong brotherhood bond between members of the Royal Order of Jesters. Potentates and Chaplains, Attorneys and Judges, Past Masters and brothers all participating or watching with open eyes, but closed minds.
www.freemasonrywatch.org...

This writer states that many where into these activities, maybe they all considered them "un-masonic", they all still did it at their jester functions.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

But that's our point. No one is closing their eyes. The matter is currently under investigation by both civil authorities and Masonic organizations.

I can see your point of view here, but it is not the same as the "our point" you are talking about.
I have seen a steady stream of posts in this thread that is downplaying this news in various way.
And i have seen some more constructive replies.

There are some indications of organised sex parties and some hearings about organised sex parties with minor prostitutes.
People will ask questions when they come across news like this, so do i.

Just posting stuff i come across and see what people think about it.
See if i can learn some things on the way.

reply to post by jaamaan


Really..the comedy is becoming too much.

I expect, if you come across stories of prostitution, that you be concerned. But wait. I just quickly found all these other cases, where is your outrage sir? Why are you not posting threads about this demanding that all of these cases not involving masons be looked into further?

www.baltimoresun.com...&cid=0&usg=AFQjCNEGZUIb9pDGJDOSD6wWIJShJ9hu_w
www.sabcnews.com...&cid=1219987849&usg=AFQjCNGKayVaTjvrjkNiug84U064S8-uoA
origin.denverpost.com...&cid=1221200731&usg=AFQjCNFXvvt1JM__mEqJQ0KnS0Y-pFrh2w

And yet, when I look through your posts, all I see is you feigning outrage in this topic, and whats different in this topic than all the rest? Someone who is a mason is involved. I am not fooled that you have any genuine concern for whats going on here, you just keep beating the dead horse because masons are involved.

I find what you are doing to be characteristic of mason bashing. Its quite obvious. Almost comically so. You have the right to mason bash, of course, its one of ATS's most popular things to do...but I'm afraid I will call you out on it.

You see, if you were not mason bashing you would have stopped this after every mason on the board expressed their outrage and everyone agreed that, if these allegations are true, everyone involved should be thrown out. But you didn't. Because there is an agenda here.

If I wanted to promote myself I could easily throw around titles and awards, and since you seem to fall for appeal to authority fallacies you couldn't do anything but believe me. But I'm interested in the truth. Which in this case...there hasn't been much of yet between the yellow journalism and your sensationalizing.

[edit on 13-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

Question? how do you know that the E-mail is not a hoax? I mean anyone with an axe to grind could had gined it up. Hell knowing the hate freemasonwatch has for us, I wouldn't doubt that they gined it up.

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
Really..the comedy is becoming too much.

I expect, if you come across stories of prostitution, that you be concerned. But wait. I just quickly found all these other cases, where is your outrage sir? Why are you not posting threads about this demanding that all of these cases not involving masons be looked into further?

www.baltimoresun.com...&cid=0&usg=AFQjCNEGZUIb9pDGJDOSD6wWIJShJ9hu_w
www.sabcnews.com...&cid=1219987849&usg=AFQjCNGKayVaTjvrjkNiug84U064S8-uoA
origin.denverpost.com...&cid=1221200731&usg=AFQjCNFXvvt1JM__mEqJQ0KnS0Y-pFrh2w

I believe these stories belong on bts.
This OP is on a conspiracy forum about secret societies, they are quite different.
Are you trying to tell me what i can and cannot post ?

If I wanted to promote myself I could easily throw around titles and awards, and since you seem to fall for appeal to authority fallacies you couldn't do anything but believe me. But I'm interested in the truth. Which in this case...there hasn't been much of yet between the yellow journalism and your sensationalizing.

This is the second time you mention your titles and awards, could you humor me and tell us all about them?

And i believe the case was :

Federal court documents filed in U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida, Miami Division, related to case number 07-21228, list 19 witnesses who are believed to be members of the Royal Order of Jesters (ROJ) AKA Shriners AKA Masons, who are expected to testify about fishing trips to Brazil and:

“their first hand knowledge of prostitution, minor prostitution, use of illegal drugs and/or entry into Indian reservations by Schair (plaintiff) and/or his customers.”
sandyfrost.newsvine.com...

I think the sensation is in these witnesses reports.
They go pretty far.
The only " yellow journalism" i see here so far is post like yours trying to downplay the facts.

Originally posted by lost in the midwest
Question? how do you know that the E-mail is not a hoax? I mean anyone with an axe to grind could had gined it up. Hell knowing the hate freemasonwatch has for us, I wouldn't doubt that they gined it up.

Good point, i dont know if this email is a hoax, that is why i am discussing it here, it seems to fit "one side" of the story.
But it seems to fit the "slander" side of the story just as much.

reply to post by jaamaan


And yet if you had concern for the crimes, and had no agenda behind this, why is it I do not detect any posts on BTS from you decrying these other, more obvious cases of child prostitution where there is actual proof and not just accusations? Where is your absolute outrage, where are your posts demanding something happen to these non-masons?

There is none. Because your not being consistent. Lets be honest. If this didn't involve accusations (and let us recall that is all we have, at this point) toward masons you wouldn't care at all.

Do you even see what your posting? There is no facts here, simply what someone is "expected" to testify about. Of course, the problem is this is all in the context of a slander case, where people are suspected of making stuff up in order to slander others. But lets not the facts get in the way of the sensationalism here.

Your not interested in a discussion, because every time someone posts something that doesn't fit with the game your up to your all of a sudden accusing people of downplaying facts. Remember, a discussion is two ways - even whenever one way shows your "facts" are nothing but yellow journalism.

[edit on 13-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
And yet if you had concern for the crimes, and had no agenda behind this, why is it I do not detect any posts on BTS from you decrying these other, more obvious cases of child prostitution where there is actual proof and not just accusations? Where is your absolute outrage, where are your posts demanding something happen to these non-masons?

There are many more things that i am concerned about, doesnt mean i have to post them any where.
Are you trying to tell me what i can and cannot post ?
I dont know what you expect from a conspiracy forum in the secret societies section.
On a forum about football you would expect discussions about football, right.
Are you telling me i have to talk about tennis, while my interest is in talking about football?

Do you even see what your posting? There is no facts here, simply what someone is "expected" to testify about. Of course, the problem is this is all in the context of a slander case, where people are suspected of making stuff up in order to slander others. But lets not the facts get in the way of the sensationalism here.

Do you see what you are posting ?
You are downplayng the whole thing again here.
19 witnesses are testifying in a case about child prostitution, that is quite a sensational event in a negative way.

Your not interested in a discussion, because every time someone posts something that doesn't fit with the game your up to your all of a sudden accusing people of downplaying facts. Remember, a discussion is two ways - even whenever one way shows your "facts" are nothing but yellow journalism.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here but a whole bunch all together.
I would like to have a look at the awards you where talking about first before i can take you serious i think.

Originally posted by jaamaan
Are you trying to tell me what i can and cannot post ?

I am telling you that if your going to feign outrage over child prostitution only because masons may be involved and you want there to be something more to it, just say so. Don't act like your concerned over the victims or the nature of the crimes itself, because if you were, there are cases with actual evidence over which you could then be actually concerned about.

Originally posted by jaamaan
I dont know what you expect from a conspiracy forum in the secret societies section.

I expect there to be actual conspiracies about secret societies. Shocking of me to have such outlandish expectations, I know. Where is the conspiracy here? There is none. But its a pretty evil crime (if true) and it involves the masons, so of course you posted it here.

Do you see what you are posting ?
You are downplayng the whole thing again here.
19 witnesses are testifying in a case about child prostitution, that is quite a sensational event in a negative way.

There you go ignoring reality again. One more time, this is not a case about child prostitution. It never has been, it never will be, regardless of your very strong desire to make it one. This is a case of slander where people are accused of making stuff up about child prostitution in order to hurt someone else's reputation and business. There is a difference.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here but a whole bunch all together.
I would like to have a look at the awards you where talking about first before i can take you serious i think.

Sorry, I'm interested in the truth. You go on chasing that appeal to authority logical fallacy. I understand...when you've got nothing...sometimes using logical fallacies is all you can do.

reply to post
by ALightinDarkness

con·spir·a·cy

1. the act of conspiring.
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4. Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
5. any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.
dictionary.reference.com...

reply to post by jaamaan


Thanks for proving my point.

How much longer do you want to keep beating a dead horse?

Originally posted by jaamaan
This subject seems to be downplayed so much that to me this could look like masons are prepared to defend one and other at any cause.

Sadly true, one would think masons would be outraged and want to do something about it, but they dont.
There is the mason bullies that pig out threads such as this and total denial is the name of the game.
Creepy sexual things like this will continue, I have been following this event for a long time.

Don Dyar

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
I expect there to be actual conspiracies about secret societies. Shocking of me to have such outlandish expectations, I know. Where is the conspiracy here? There is none. But its a pretty evil crime (if true) and it involves the masons, so of course you posted it here.

May i remind you that this is the original case.
If thse accusations are true than a bunch of men conspired a crime together.
How much more clear do you want it.
O yes, and it involves masons.

Thanks for making it clear again that you are trying to downplay this whole affair.

Federal court documents filed in U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida, Miami Division, related to case number 07-21228, list 19 witnesses who are believed to be members of the Royal Order of Jesters (ROJ) AKA Shriners AKA Masons, who are expected to testify about fishing trips to Brazil and:

“their first hand knowledge of prostitution, minor prostitution, use of illegal drugs and/or entry into Indian reservations by Schair (plaintiff) and/or his customers.”

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
There you go ignoring reality again. One more time, this is not a case about child prostitution. It never has been, it never will be, regardless of your very strong desire to make it one. This is a case of slander where people are accused of making stuff up about child prostitution in order to hurt someone else's reputation and business. There is a difference.

May i remind you that this case is about masons testifying about “their first hand knowledge of prostitution, minor prostitution, use of illegal drugs and/or entry into Indian reservations by Schair (plaintiff) and/or his customers.”

Could you explain to me how "this is not a case about child prostitution".

reply to post by ALightinDarkness


Okay, let's cut it. We all know that with any fraternity (Jester's and Mason's included) the body consists of some good, some bad and some really bad. The "bartender girls" aren't a surprise to anyone reading this as none of us fell off the truck yesterday. The reason the fraternity takes such a beating for it is because the motto "to make good men better" does not really refer to "master's in cunnilungus" in the minds of the public. You really would be out of the spotlight more if initiation ceromonies revolved around annual fundraising projections and goal-setting for the hospital's upcomming fiscal year. In closing, while the majority of Mason's and Jester's do not partake in the "on-going's" in question, you remain guilty by ommission rather than commission. If more of you refused to allow this behavior in your "neighborhood" this would be a mute point.

reply to post by jaamaan


If you did a little bit of homework, you would find out that the 2 guides were disgruntled due to being fired and were paid by the owner of Amazon Tours (the company being sued) to say all of these things about their previous employer and the Jesters. Also, neither of the 2 guides could read their affidavits which they claim to have wrote themselves. Interesting, huh? As you can logically deduce, both of these guides were found guilty of perjury and their testimonies were stricken from the record...

If anyone can step back from that particular court case to see the big picture, you would notice that these affidavits and testimonies were only thrown into the mix to try and get the focus off the real reason for the lawsuit --- which was due to the owner of Amazon Tours continuously defaming and slandering the other company solely because he doesn't like having the competition.

You have to keep up on the facts so you really know what you are talking about.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by jaamaan

You have to keep up on the facts so you really know what you are talking about.

I think most of the facts, including most of the ones you present, where posted on page one allready.

reply to post by yankeerose


john wayne was a mason, shriner and jester

Hello Everyone,
I am a Jester for many years now. I've NEVER had a prostitute approach me at a function, I have NEVER witnessed lewd or sexual behavior at an event, and the gentlemen I have associated with at Jester functions have been among the most upstanding individuals I have had the pleasure of meeting.
There are many outside parties who for various reasons feel a need to attack secretive organizations like the Jesters and paint them as evil, corrupt or somehow inconsistent with basic moral Christian values.
Please don't take them too seriously - if they were people of merit surely we would have recruited them already (joking of course). Perhaps they should find another organization (of which they know little) to attack - I can think of many.
In the meantime, God Bless!
Yours in Mirth.
ROJ