Royal Order of Jesters testify about Illegal Drugs, Child Prostitution

Originally posted by jaamaan
This subject seems to be downplayed so much that to me this could look like masons are prepared to defend one and other at any cause.

How on the world do you see that? It looks like every Mason on this thread has roundly denounced everyone involved in wrongdoing. What else do you want us to do, beat them up?

I for one would like to root out these "bad apples" with all my power if these accusations where going around in my organisation.

Particulary if you take in mind how far these accusations go.

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
reply to post by jaamaan

 

If there were ever a more appropriate time to use the phrase "beating a dead horse," I don't know when it would be.

I dont see a dead horse here.

The first deposition, 61 pages, was provided by Adilson Garcia da Silva on Sunday, April 13, 2008. He describes how he became a fishing guide, his work history, how marijuana was allegedly obtained for the plaintiffs’ clients then began describing how girls, from age 13 on up, were lured into prostitution from Brazilian Indian reservations for the fishing trips’ clients. The girls, he said, were hired to provide “programs” that consisted of “oral sex, strip and dance contests.”
sandyfrost.newsvine.com...

This whole thing is still ongoing as far as i can see.
I realy dont understand how one would want to downplay child protitution accusations like these.

Is this an example of how masons try to protect each other at any cause ?

reply to post by jaamaan


Though I can't say for certain that there aren't any, I've seen no indication that any of the Masons on ATS live in Florida where the Jesters are being interviewed.

So again, what would you have us do?

[edit on 6/12/2008 by JoshNorton]

Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by jaamaan

 

Though I can't say for certain that there aren't any, I've seen no indication that any of the Masons on ATS live in Florida where the Jesters are being interviewed.

So again, what would you have us do?

[edit on 6/12/2008 by JoshNorton]

I am not sure what you are saying here, could you please explain ?

Thanks.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
Hang those dirty utopian sick minded yuppies!

Finally things are surfacing, pretty soon well hear different accussations regarding shriners and demolay orders. Ritual abuse is rock bottom!

the Shriner's run the largest non for profit children's hospitals
service and community and charity
what abuse and the DeMolay orders, are like pre-masons
'Ritual abuse' and the Shrine or DeMolay is a fair call-we are on topic of the Jesters (who are likely one of the smallest peripheral groups anyway- or maybe its the The Tall Cedars of Lebanon i am not sure which is smaller these days)
please let's keep to them specifically unless something new turns up specific to the Shrine.

During the initiation of new Jesters I was offered the opportunity by another fellow brother to sleep with a whore, even though I had a wife and kids waiting for me to come home. I was not strong at the time and I violated every oath I had ever taken with my wife. This did not stop at initiation. These were a constant occurrence at our Jester functions and they are a common occurrence today. The initiation practices have not changed as well. Prostitutes were offered/made available at our functions and often brothers would have sex in front of other brothers.
www.freemasonrywatch.org...

Strange type of initiations.
But the man clearly states that these where a "constant occurrence".

Originally posted by jaamaan


Strange type of initiations.
But the man clearly states that these where a "constant occurrence".

Consider the source. Freemasonry Watch.

The members involved, if guilty, will be dealt with by the Grand Lodge of their jurisdiction. As for me, I have no idea who those guys are. If they are guilty, they will be expelled. That's the end of it from the fraternity's perspective.

reply to post by Masonic Light


I believe this email is not only availible on the freemasonwatch website.

reply to post by jaamaan


I do. Its the same old, same old. Find a mason doing a bad thing, talk about it till your blue in the face.

Using the fact that some masons do bad things is the oldest trick in mason bashing. No one denies it, in fact, in any organization this large, it would be unusual if no one was doing anything bad.

As ML has said...everyone mason here has denounced this and said - if it is true - that all of these people should be expelled from all masonic bodies. That should be enough for you, but you keep expecting more. Its not going to happen. We have a justice system for a reason, and it will work itself out. Posting updates from quasi-journalists trying to make a name for themselves by blowing this out of proportion and links to freemasonry watch do not strengthen your case.

Exclusive company...

Originally posted by jaamaan
I believe this email is not only availible on the freemasonwatch website.

Google search for email text

No... Just two... Freemasonrywatch and Sandy Frost... And odds are one got it from the other.

But let's take the email at face value, and then apply it to the world around us. You would have us believe that Freemasonry (and by extension the Shriners and Jesters) are responsible for all indulgences in prostitution, drug use, and jaywalking throughout the world. I'm a betting monkey, and my money is on that there's a lot more non-Masons, non-Shriners, and non-Jesters who are partaking in these activities.

I would also reiterate that the original issue of the thread concerned members of the ROJ testifying as witnesses, and are not charged with any crime. There appears to be some members of the ROJ who plead guilty to felony charges (though the link was no good) and if that is true, then they will be sanctioned by the respective fraternal bodies they belong to (expelled).

The Masons here on ATS have already stated, if anyone involved is convicted of a crime, or even demonstrates a level of impropriety, they will be expelled...

It's too bad Congress doesn't hold itself to those same high standards.

America, Mark Twain once said, is a nation without a distinct criminal class "with the possible exception of Congress."

If anything, the Congress of today is even worse than it was in Twain's time more than a century ago.

The 535 men and women who make up the House and Senate of the United States include, at best, a collection of rogues, con artists, scofflaws and bad check artists. At worst, they comprise, as Twain once observed, a distinct criminal class.

www.capitolhillblue.com...

[edit on 12/6/2008 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by Mirthful Me

But let's take the email at face value, and then apply it to the world around us. You would have us believe that Freemasonry (and by extension the Shriners and Jesters) are responsible for all indulgences in prostitution, drug use, and jaywalking throughout the world. I'm a betting monkey, and my money is on that there's a lot more non-Masons, non-Shriners, and non-Jesters who are partaking in these activities.

Well this is what is in the email, for example.

The initiation practices have not changed as well. Prostitutes were offered/made available at our functions and often brothers would have sex in front of other brothers.

Oral sex competitions between brothers were considered “fun” activities to build a strong brotherhood bond between members of the Royal Order of Jesters. Potentates and Chaplains, Attorneys and Judges, Past Masters and brothers all participating or watching with open eyes, but closed minds. I often felt ashamed of what I was doing, but the pleasure outweighed the guilt. I had fallen within a deep hole and my cable-tow had been severed.
www.freemasonrywatch.org...

I dont believe that "Freemasonry (and by extension the Shriners and Jesters) are responsible for all indulgences in prostitution, drug use, and jaywalking throughout the world"
That is just you putting words in my mouth.

This source states that these things were a "constant occurrence at our Jester functions"
Because "a lot more non-Masons, non-Shriners, and non-Jesters who are partaking in these activities" doesnt mean for me that it is ok for the jesters.
When you aply that logic to other thing you can get strange results.

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
Using the fact that some masons do bad things is the oldest trick in mason bashing. No one denies it, in fact, in any organization this large, it would be unusual if no one was doing anything bad.

May i remind you that this case is about child protitution, not the usual thing you would like to go around in your organisation.
There have been some other prostitution cases and some accusations about mad sex parties.
Do you find it so crazy that people want to look into these cases to see if these are incidental occurences or that there is something more going on in these secret societies.

Posting updates from quasi-journalists trying to make a name for themselves by blowing this out of proportion and links to freemasonry watch do not strengthen your case.

Well i believe this "quasi-journalists" won some kind of reward so i take her word over yours if you dont mind.

I would find it particularly worrying if several members of the same organization were caught committing a crime like this. Now there have been other claims that is activity is commonly found in the ROJ but I really do not know much about them. I have heard rumors about them and this story doesn't help with that

Originally posted by jaamaan
May i remind you that this case is about child protitution, not the usual thing you would like to go around in your organisation.
There have been some other prostitution cases and some accusations about mad sex parties.

What in the world are you talking about? I, and of course every mason, would obviously prefer an organization in which nothing bad at any level ever happened.

Again, I ask you, what exactly do you expect people to say? We condemn it, say that upon being proven guilty they should be/will be thrown out of the organization, what more do you want?

This is - yet again - the oldest tactic in the mason bashing book. Find a mason doing something deliciously evil, and make it look like the whole organization must be up to something due to it.

Originally posted by jaamaan
Do you find it so crazy that people want to look into these cases to see if these are incidental occurences or that there is something more going on in these secret societies.

Absolutely not. Obviously you've got to make a career some how, and blowing things out of proportion and attacking masonry is guaranteed to help it.

Originally posted by jaamaan
Well i believe this "quasi-journalists" won some kind of reward so i take her word over yours if you dont mind.

Oh really? I've won lots of awards too. I don't promote myself though, so I have no reason to try to use it to create an appeal to authority fallacy - which is what you just did. I prefer to do my own research instead of buying into yellow journalism, but maybe thats just me.

Originally posted by SonOfTheWidow
Emperor Norton:

I think the story about Masons and underage Brazilian girls -- as well as the story out of New York yesterday involving public officials and local prostitutes -- reflects poorly not only on Jesters and Shriners, but on all Freemasons. After all, one cannot become a Mason without having supposedly been investigated by a committee of three "diligent" Masons and found "worthy." A lodge full of brothers initially voted unanimously to accept these Jesters as Masons.

Do these few Jesters represent the many? Who knows? This isn't the first time the words "Jesters" and "prostitutes" have been used in the same news story. A 1990 case in Wisconsin found this same pattern of behavior in several Jester courts across the country.

In any case, the public doesn't know or care about the difference between Jesters and Blue Lodge Masons. And the anti-Masonic conspiracy people believe, or pretend to believe, that the subsets of Masonry (York Rite, Shriners, Scottish Rite, Jesters) are actually the "higher-ups" that control the Blue Lodge Masons.

The publicity for Freemasonry isn't going to be pretty. Masons saying, "Oh, that's an isolated incident... we don't do that kind of stuff" isn't going to help, as more and more "isolated" incidents are reported. I mean, that's two in less than a week, and more will be reported.

The home lodges of these men would do well to take quick and decisive action. Masonic Code does not require a conviction in a court of law before charges of unmasonic conduct can be filed. Masons hold their own courts of inquiry, and don't have to wait for a conviction of any crime.

All this may soon hit national news. Sounds bites saying "we don't act like that -- it's just a small minority" won't hold up as more and more incidents come to light.

Widow's Son

Edit: link removed

Very good post Son, I must say right on!

One problem, the Masonic Blue Lodge is trampled over by these other factions. The Lodge can not fix itself anymore.
In my area nasty, stuff is going on with no repairing it in sight.
Yes, more of these things will continue to come up with the same actions such as those on this forum, changing the subject, calling it lies, and posting the same useless blabber instead of dealing with it.

Don Dyar



[edit on 11-3-2008 by intrepid]

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness

Again, I ask you, what exactly do you expect people to say? We condemn it, say that upon being proven guilty they should be/will be thrown out of the organization, what more do you want?

What do you expect me to say when i come across stories of child protitution ?
Look the other way ?

This is - yet again - the oldest tactic in the mason bashing book. Find a mason doing something deliciously evil, and make it look like the whole organization must be up to something due to it.

It seems that you find any investigation into masons "mason bashing"
These accusations are very serious, do you want people to close their eyes for these matters.
There are withnesses that say there was child protitution going on at a "jester" fishing trip.
Do you think it is crazy that people will look into these jesters?

Oh really? I've won lots of awards too. I don't promote myself though

It seems you just did my friend.

Originally posted by AKnight
I would find it particularly worrying if several members of the same organization were caught committing a crime like this. Now there have been other claims that is activity is commonly found in the ROJ but I really do not know much about them. I have heard rumors about them and this story doesn't help with that

I totaly agree with you here.

Originally posted by jaamaan


It seems that you find any investigation into masons "mason bashing"
These accusations are very serious, do you want people to close their eyes for these matters.

But that's our point. No one is closing their eyes. The matter is currently under investigation by both civil authorities and Masonic organizations.

Taking the E-mail on face value, did you not catch the following line: I had fallen within a deep hole and my cable-tow had been severed.
The writer is admitting to the fact that his behavior was un-masonic and that his actions were not those of a true mason. Our cable-tow stands for our obligation to the fraternity and its tenants