Is Israel using ‘Thermobaric ’ weapons?

reply to post by pavil


Good post my friend, but I have to call false analogy on the subject of people dispersing themselves amongst troop formations. It's not as if Hizbollah has always been there, then the Lebanese came and built their houses in the middle of a Hizbollah camp. Hizbollah moved in next door to innocent Palestinians. It's not as if the people of Lebanon have all signed up for human shield duty.

I also understand why they do not evacuate.

I try to imagine myself living in Southern Lebanon. I imagine a militarily superior nation telling me, "leave your home, take your family out on the road through a war torn nation, on foot if you must, and find a refugee camp to huddle into (hoping against hope that the refugee camps will fair better than they have in certain past instances which shall go unnamed), because we intend to bomb your house, and your neighbors house, and you father's house, and your work place, and your favorite god-blessed deli", in that situation the only possible way to get me out of my house would be to get me a car and a passport so I could go to Israel and kill the idiot who told me that. Let's face it, that kind of situation creates more enemies for Israel than it kills, because it is inhumane and unreasonable.

Israel has the right to sacrifice Israeli lives for the safety of Israel. They do not have the right to sacrifice Lebanese lives for the safety of Israel. So if that means that Israel has to put boots on the ground and take casualties in order to root out Hizbollah with less loss of life and livelihood for innocents in the area, then that is Israel's moral obligation in my humble opinion.

And the Muslim response remains the same. "We can't do anything because the radicals operate from our midst". Then what is Israel to do, or the West for that matter.

This excuse that Muslims continuously give that they can not do anything about the radicals that operate in their midst does not hold water. if there are true moderates among the Muslims, then they need to join in the fight against the radicals, and that is the only solution.

Originally posted by ergoli
Now, I'm not saying that Israel isn't guilty of more than its share of war crimes, I'm just wondering if the same anger would be directed at anybody else who did the same thing.

If Iran today tortured a US soldier to death, Teheran would be bombed tomorrow. If there are double standards in this matter, they go pro-israel.


what double standards, if Israel tortured a US soldier to death, the US would attack Israel, what are you blethering about man

reply to post by blueorder


actually they wouldn`t - first it would be an atomic reply if the US did and second , when the IDF attacked the USS Liberty in international waters - for nearly 2 hours , there was no reply then.

reply to post by themillersdaughter


Considering the rather heated nature of topics like this, and the deeply rooted feelings and opinions of people on either side of the topic, I would just like to say that I do respect your opinion, although I disagree with you totally on it.

I believe that we've reached a loggerhead in this particular topic, so I would just like to thank you for your responses, and a spirited debate. Just because two people disagree so passionately doesn't mean they can't respect each other as individuals.

Originally posted by Harlequin

actually they wouldn`t - first it would be an atomic reply if the US did and second , when the IDF attacked the USS Liberty in international waters - for nearly 2 hours , there was no reply then.

come back to me when they torture a US soldier, as was the original assertion to which I replied

reply to post by The Vagabond



I totally agree that the people of Lebanon are the ones really held hostage by all the other powers in the region. You have Israel, Syria, Iran (via Hezbollah) and the Palestinians basically doing what they want there and the ones who really suffer are the native Lebanese citizens.

All of the above at one time or another have basically set up defacto states within Lebanon dating back to the Civil war there. That's too bad, as I have met a few people from Lebanon and they are very nice. Beruit was once one of the crown jewels of the region. It was also one of the only Arab countries besides Jordan to really accept Palestinian refugees, all the other Arab countries just pay lip service to doing that. It's very sad, given all those countries mentioned are still meddling in Lebanon's internal affairs.

Given a choice I am pretty sure Lebanon would like to be left alone by all of them.

reply to post by The Vagabond

So if that means that Israel has to put boots on the ground and take casualties in order to root out Hizbollah with less loss of life and livelihood for innocents in the area, then that is Israel's moral obligation in my humble opinion.

Israeli boots are not capable to fight hezbollah guirellas as we have seen during israeli/lebanon war.They bombed civillians with clusters and leveld buildings while israeli army was getting absalutely hammered at the borders.

They lost about 80 merkavas! doesnt that tell you something?

reply to post by BloodthirstyCapitalist



Thank you! I enjoyed it as well.

My mother would have just said, "Two wrongs don't make a right."

Originally posted by Atari
reply to post by The Vagabond

 

Israeli boots are not capable to fight Hezbollah guerrillas as we have seen during Israeli/Lebanon war.They bombed civilians with clusters and leveled buildings while Israeli army was getting absolutely hammered at the borders.

They lost about 80 merkavas! doesnt that tell you something?

What that tells me militarily is that Israel didn't soften the area up with enough suppressive fire and artillery before moving in. Then you would be complaining about the excessive force used by them. Israel walked into some areas that were infested with bunkers and tunnels in areas. When they did "slog" through it, they sustained heavy casualties like any other fighting force would. There is no easy way to clear out an area of entrenched foes, unless you bomb them excessively.

I'm sure next time Israel will have learned from it's mistakes it made tactically.

I'm kind of new here but i'm amazed no one questions the fact that this story is quoted from Al Jazeera...

Seems strange...

reply to post by glenwilly


Although this story may be false, I think the discussion here is more about how we wouldn't put it past Isreal to use Thermobarics.

Although if they think that Thermobarics are new and are in the testing phase, then the merits of the article should be called out.

Shattered OUT...

reply to post by Attari


In ground combat, Israel loses one soldier for about 3 to 5 Hezbollah fighters. They are plenty effective, and this ratio is when Israeli troops are attacking fortified positions. The only problem Israeli has with Hezbollah, is avoiding civilian casualties.

It shouldn't be that hard for Lebanon to search out Hezbollah and disarm them, they simply do not want to.

reply to post by ergoli


The comments here make me wonder if people here think that if really makes a lot of difference whether you get killed by a knife, a gun, a machine gun, a roadside bomb, a 500 pound bomb, a thermobaric bomb, or a nuclear bomb.

Originally posted by poet1b


It shouldn't be that hard for Lebanon to search out Hezbollah and disarm them, they simply do not want to.

I disagree with that. Iran and Syria are still rearming Hezbollah and taking out Pro Western elected members of the Lebenese Cabinet, without much outcry I may add.

Lebanon is still not at the point where it could go in and disarm Hezbollah by force of arms, they just don't have the weapons or training or manpower to do so yet.

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
Although this story may be false, I think the discussion here is more about how we wouldn't put it past Isreal to use Thermobarics.

It's not just thermobarbarics that are being used, there are even more disgusting anti-personnel weapons that are used by the IDF, namely plastic shrapnel munitions that are specifically designed to not show on medical x-rays

members5.boardhost.com...

"...regarding the types of weapons used I suggest you contact UK surgeon Dr David Halpin who has been to Gaza and is trying to identify the new anti-personnel weapons being used
by IDF forces against civilians in Palestine. [Some of these were also used by Israeli forces against civilians in Lebanon].

These weapons are designed to mutilate rather than kill. They are also designed to create undetectable, untreatable injuries that create maximum agony to the victim and grief to families and medical personnel trying to treat them.

For example they use plastic flechettes - razor shrapnel like scalpel blades - that are made of plastic so they cannot be detected by Xray machines."

I remember distinctly the very brief mention in the Guardian newspaper of the use of these types of frag weapon but this is the only source i've been able to find online...

reply to post by citizen smith


Yes and to what relevance does that have to do with Israel deploying thermobarics?

Shattered OUT...

Wow, what a thread. I am a Palestinian myself who is currently living in Britain, and I have to say I lost my faith in Humanity a long time ago, no one seems to learn from history these days.

If only you could see how beautiful Palestine and Israel are and how much of a shame and waste it is to be put through war, it is too late for peace, no matter what Israel does Hamas will carry on fighting, and no matter what Hamas does Israel will carry on fighting. This is the most horrific type of cycle in human history.

I request one thing from each and everyone of you. Please learn from this, you do not want to see the faces of suffering children....

reply to post by hayatli7


Well put. Too bad the youth have to pay for the sins of their elders. Hopefully you are wrong and both sides will see it is in there OWN interest to peacefully coexist.

Originally posted by pavil
reply to post by hayatli7

 

Well put. Too bad the youth have to pay for the sins of their elders. Hopefully you are wrong and both sides will see it is in there OWN interest to peacefully coexist.

Indeed....I hope I am wrong.