Is Israel using ‘Thermobaric ’ weapons?

Originally posted by The Vagabond
The real question is this: Is Israel blowing up innocent people just for the sake of ease?

No the real question is Is Israel intenionally targeting civillians or are they just caught in the crossfire by the foes of Israel using civillians as human shields/cover?

If Hezbollah is launching attacks from civillian areas, there is undoubtably going to be civillian casualties unless you don't fire back, which will just cause Hezbollah to keep with that tactic. Either you don't attack Hezbollah or you attack and incur civillian deaths as a result. Israel has announced prior to many engaements for civillians to leave, Hezbollah has yet to do that. War is very messy, bloody and brutal and yes, civillian get stuck right in the middle of it sometimes.

It's pretty rotten that for a supposedly tough fighting force (Hezbollah) that can't seem to fight out in the open still. Hiding behind women and children when you are an organized fighting force is cowardly IMO.

reply to post by pavil


no thats called urban warfare , they are fighting an unconventional war since they don`t have the military capabilities of the IDF they fight them everyway they can - look at the US forces in Iraq to see a similar situation - and no they are not terrorists before anyone starts banding that overused word around. Hezbollah vs IDf is open warfare , Iraq army vs US is the same , just unconventional - see vietnam to get the idea.

reply to post by pavil

Unfortunately this is Guerrilla warfare, and this has always happened this way. Which makes them more difficult to combat.

In this form of combat (which now seems to prevail more commonly than the opposite form of combat) civilians will always get caught in the crossfire and of course there will be people who blame the conventional force for purposely targeting civilians.

This might as well be a direct result of the Proxy Wars of the Cold War.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by pavil

 

no thats called urban warfare , they are fighting an unconventional war since they don`t have the military capabilities of the IDF they fight them everyway they can - look at the US forces in Iraq to see a similar situation - and no they are not terrorists before anyone starts banding that overused word around. Hezbollah vs IDf is open warfare , Iraq army vs US is the same , just unconventional - see vietnam to get the idea.

So unconventional warfare to you includes the continual rocket-attacks on civilian centers by people who are not members of any organized military force? See, I always thought that thats EXACTLY what terrorism is. Silly me

For what its worth, do you think that if the Israelis turned this into a more conventional form of warfare that it would save any lives? The Israelis are going to do whatever they have to do in order to secure the lives of their people, and will attack Hezbollah where ever they might be. So instead of targeted, precision attacks, the Israelis should just turn their army loose, and let the tanks roll into Gaza? Don't know if this would do much to spare lives, on either side.

Check the source for this info. Talk about biased information. Next thing you know they will accuse Israel of using Chemical weapons to further their cause with no proof to back it up. Daisy Cutters and Cluster bombs are just that attari, They are bombs that kill the enemy. They are not Chemical, Biological or nuclear so they can use all they want as were ever they drop one someone will claim it to be in a civilian area because that were the terrorist hide and shoot their rockets from. I have no sympathy for someone who tickles the tail of the tiger and then gets their head bit off.

reply to post by BloodthirstyCapitalist


Actually, I think if Israel was going to do ANYTHING it could to protect the lives of their citizens, they would surrender the land they began grabbing beginning in 1947!! Think they ever will? You seem to think Israel is just minding their own business and those dastardly Palestinians are maniacally attacking them for no good reason.

Isreal is propped up by a forest of American bayonets and we should refuse to give them another penny. We fund their terrorist regime. How would they defend themselves without U.S. funds?

Might as well title the Thread "U.S. uses Thermobaric weapons on women and children and the occasional Palestinian Freedom Fighter".

reply to post by themillersdaughter


Yep your right. All the Jewish religious sites that have been there for thousands of years and all of recorded ancient history proving that
Israel is Jewish land means nothing? You need to talk to people like the president of Iran and other radicals who will admit that to this very day. The Jews were drove out of Israel by invaders and the land was given back to them as it should have been after WWII. Palestinians are refugees of Syria, Egypt and Jordan. They have plenty of land the Arabs and they will not let their bothers and sisters come home just so they can be a thorn in Jews backsides. That is all fact so stop with the lies.

reply to post by themillersdaughter


Hyperbole doesn't become you.

The Israelis have offered land time and time again, and it hasn't brought any peace, so why would they expect it to now? Don't the Israelis have any right to exist? As for how the Israelis would do without American aid, I would suggest quite well. They have lived at the center of a region that despises their very existance, and have thrived. Its the Will of the Israeli people that keep the State of Israel alive, not American dollars.

I do like your thread title suggestion, though. Well, the part about "Americans use thermobaric weapons on women, children and occasional (here's the best part) Palestinian Freedom fighter". You actually believe these terrorists to be freedom fighters? To have some sort of cause that is worth supporting? So, you must support mass killings like the terrorist attack the Jerusalem Yehshiva this week? The bombings of countless Israeli markets, busses, the hijacking of planes, the assassination of Israeli Olympians in Munich, the rocket-attacks of Sderot, and the throngs of suicide bombers, these are all "ok" with you because they are done in an attempt to forward the cause of your "Freedom Fighters", right?

I shudder at the thought about what opinion you have regarding Al-Qaeda and the terrorist attacks of September 11th.

Oh No...Israel is Americas innocent Illegitimate Child, it is too innocent to hurt anyone. Israel only survives on American Taxpayers Charity, and in return, they are asked by Big Daddy to Test the Latest Weapons on Children for "Experiment Purposes Only" like the Japanese Whalers who also kill Whales for
"Experiment Purposes Only"

Neocons told us that Israel is a "Chosen People"

reply to post by Sky watcher


I couldnt agree more. I've always found it odd that the Arab world cries out to the world about the plight of the Palestinians, yet Jordan is the only nation that welcomes them with open arms. I would think that if the other Arab nations cared so very much for the welfare of the Palestinians, they would at least offer them a region to call their own. Instead, they turn them into a propaganda machine, highlighting Jewish "brutality".

With friends like that, who needs enemies?

reply to post by Dubyakadubla

Why would they need to test thermobaric weapons? They have been used for years, and everyone is quite sure that they work.

Love your avatar though; its strangely offensive, AND a crummy grammar lesson, all in one!

reply to post by Sky watcher



Well then, I expect you feel that all of us (I include myself, even though I'm a mudblood, so to speak) blonde haired blue eyed Americans to get the heck out of the continental US because it didn't belong to us, now did it? It belongs to the Native Americans, not to mention the indigineous Mexicans, or should we refer to them as the Original Americans? Sheesh.

All the sacred places of the Native Americans are being trampled daily. All their relics and artifacts are sold or confiscated for museum pieces. Or is it just because you believe the claims of the Israelis that GOD promised them that land. I suspect you support the repressive regime in Israel because it says you should in the Bible...am I right? Since they God's people maybe GOD should support them with defense funds, huh? If it weren't for America they'd never have been able to get away with murder, like they do daily.

I thought so.

Take your own advice and stop the lies. The ones you are telling yourself to justify murder of children....daily...by Israel in God's name.

[edit on 3/10/08 by themillersdaughter]

reply to post by BloodthirstyCapitalist


Is it your assertion that Israel is acting within the terms of treaties that created the nation of Israel after WWII? Because they aren't. They are acting unlawfully.

"Offered them land"? (You might want to check out the new thread 'Israel plans scandolous new settlement' that was just started. THIS is a perfect example of why Palestinians want to throw rocks at Israel. They're bloodthirsty expansionists.)

I have a friend named Art Gish (Google Art Gish/Hebron). He and his wife are active in the Christian Peacekeeper's Teams. Art has witnessed israeli soldiers terrorizing girls of 10 and 12 yrs old. Girls on their way to school. They weren't being held up in front of any Paelstinian bomber, they were walking to school. Art has been a guest in palestinian homes where Israeli soldiers busted in in the middle of the night and lined the family up on their knees in the living room while they urinated and defecated on their furniture and broke all the windows out of their house. All the while another Israeli soldier held a gun to the heads of the family members.
Art has seen Israeli soldiers abuse an 80 year old man who was just walking down the street with a bag of groceries. He put his body between them and the old man...did they think perhaps the geezer had a bomb in his mesh bag? In the picture of Art that will come up on Google because it went Global, he was in Hebron and the only market available for people to buy food was about to be destroyed by the tank he put his body in front of. I guess the Israelis thought that a Palestinian bomber might get some food to eat there so no one is the entire city should be able to eat. Art is an organic farmer when he's not exercising his faith. There were no Palestinian bombers in the family. The only males old enough to be Palestinian bombers had already been murdered by Israeli soldiers. Can you imagine the hard feelings (lets call it rage) a person would feel in the face of decades of this kind of activity?

One man's terrorist IS another man's freedom fighter. Americans were terrorists in the Revolution. They were insurgents, actually. I shudder to think what you would have done to them if you'd been around back then.

Lest you think I am just an anti-semitic blowhard, I believed much like you and most Americans do until I actually started looking into the issue. Blind faith is a dangerous thing. If I could protest my tax dollars going to Israel in any more effective way than sharing the truth of the matter, I would.

If Mexico started a land grab in Texas, would you say we should just let them have it?

After all it was theirs first, wasn't it?

As far as what I think of the terrorists that perpetrated 9/11...I think America armed, trained and funded the terrorists that turned around and bit them on the keister. America LOVED Bin Laden when he was fighting for them against the Russians. But the WORST part of 9/11 is this: America knew it was coming and decided it might be good for them to just let it happen. Maybe they didn't actually PLAN the attack, but they KNEW it was coming.

The worst terrorists in America today live at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. And wherever that fat, drunk Cheney lives when he's not cowering in a bunker somewhere.

If there's a God, someone will get a good bead on one of them before they take off for Paraguay.

Edit for typos, sarcasm and 9/11 opinion.

[edit on 3/10/08 by themillersdaughter]

[edit on 3/10/08 by themillersdaughter]

International Law? So you think Israel shouldn't exist? What angers me is anti-semitism. You have no idea what it's like getting billions of dollars a year, a blank check, to buy the latest tech to kill...surrounded by terrorists. It is just so tempting. Oops. we just used a thermobaric weapon on civilians, our bad, won't happen again...on that heat setting.

reply to post by Harlequin

Yes, but part and parcel of "unconventional warfare" is that one side will use civilians as shields, which is not very warrior like. On top of that Hezbollah intentionally targets civilian centers in Israel that have no military targets or significence by them. To me, that is against the Hague and Geneva conventions, but I don't hear anyone telling them they are so Evil.

It's ok if Hezbollah directly targets civilians in Israel but watch out if Israel takes out a Katyusha Site that is parked in somebody's back yard or some Hezbollah Troops holed up in a school or hospital or a very densely populated civilian area.

I just make the point that Hezbollah, supposedly one of the best trained and armed groups on the Muslim side, still has to resort to cowardly attacks, doesn't speak well of the fighting capabilities of that side IMO. The only ones that fight well in the Muslim world are the Egyptians, IMO. No offense to all the rest, your track history belies you.

Sure you can fight that way, just be prepared to suffer civilian casualties. And be prepared to be called a coward when you intentionally attack civillian targets with no military targets in sight.

Wars are hardly ever fair, one side almost always has a significent edge over the other, otherwise you end up with the trench warfare of WWI.

I have to agree with the previous posts by the Mod’s in stating which ever way someone is murdered it is still murder.

I believe that all nations when it comes down to it will take the saying “all is fair in love and war” strategy regardless of what was signed on a piece of paper.

These treaties are just all flowers, rainbows and lollipops. I really think that no one is going to stand in the field with a piece of paper saying “ Ah ah! You can’t use that weapon you signed this” as the individual behind the trigger chuckles quietly taking aim.

We see it everyday with the major powers war machines one upping one another with their new toys on how to destroy humans on a much higher or more efficient scale.

We can see through history that we are a warring people and with our world population getting higher and our resources and land becoming scarcer we will need fewer excuses not to go to war.

I’m not a pessimist but a realist and this is what we do.

I have to agree with the previous posts by the Mod’s in stating which ever way someone is murdered it is still murder.

I believe that all nations when it comes down to it will take the saying “all is fair in love and war” strategy regardless of what was signed on a piece of paper.

These treaties are just all flowers, rainbows and lollipops. I really think that no one is going to stand in the field with a piece of paper saying “ Ah ah! You can’t use that weapon you signed this” as the individual behind the trigger chuckles quietly taking aim.

We see it everyday with the major powers war machines one upping one another with their new toys on how to destroy humans on a much higher or more efficient scale.

We can see through history that we are a warring people and with our world population getting higher and our resources and land becoming scarcer we will need fewer excuses not to go to war.

I’m not a pessimist but a realist and this is what we do.

Originally posted by ergoli
If Iran today tortured a US soldier to death, Teheran would be bombed tomorrow. If there are double standards in this matter, they go pro-israel.

Well of course the people it *happened to* would complain... that's just common sense.

When the burning corpses of our soldiers were dragged through the streets of Somalia, the world laughed, called us weak, and told us we deserved it. This same world would condemn us and call us evil and burn our flags if we did that to our enemies.

Israel is generally lumped in with the U.S. in that regard. Oh, it's okay if terrorists are shooting missiles randomly into their civilian areas, but god forbid they should shoot back at a specific terrorist base and accidentally kill a few bystanders.

Yeah, it sucks when innocents die. But that's what happens in wars. Imagine if the Allies in World War 2 had done nothing at all, on the grounds that they might kill some civilians?

Originally posted by themillersdaughter
reply to post by BloodthirstyCapitalist

 

If Mexico started a land grab in Texas, would you say we should just let them have it?
After all it was theirs first, wasn't it?

A question I have posed to many that feel that way about Israel's ancient claim to the land. It's easy to make judgments from a vacuum, and while doing it on stolen land no less. Pack up your bags oh ye self-righteous fighters for justice for all ancient landowners and give your home and property to the Natives of America.

They owned it first right?

Or is the official "I'm sorry we destroyed you", supposed to make everything A-Okay?

Is the circumstances with Israel somewhat different?

I think to most without empathy it is.

- Lee

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Good point Harlequin. A holocaust would be acceptable, but using these weapons to do it is just the straw the breaks the camel's back. I

Please help me understand, you are are "pro-holocaust" of some sort?

I think I just read you totally wrong, because as a Moderator here, I would think you wouldn't be so blatant about killing people.

Right?