Is Israel using ‘Thermobaric ’ weapons?

reply to post by ergoli


pleas show me one time the u.s. used any such weapon please. i served in the front lines on bothe campaigns and i have never seen any type used. if you are going to make false accusation or any accusations in general please, please either go to the place your self and see what is going on or quit making up non sense. you cant believe every thing you hear. and obviously you do.

but for the israelis, i had the chance to work hand in hand with these people and i will say that they are ruthless when it comes to terrorism or and type of fundamentalist or extremist. when we have a suspected terrorist or other enemy in a house we have to ask permission to enter it. when the israelis will just level the building with artillery. "hell hath no fury like an israeli scorned."

reply to post by redfaction


you don`t get arti on time and on target all the time , and using arti to target 1 person - thats why you have 10 innocents dead , whereas the USA does it properly and enters to get that 1 person inside.

different ethos different tactics - oh and many call the ISraelis terrorists , well teh conflist is 60 years old and irgun was rught at the start fighting the UK

reply to post by Harlequin



Saw it after posting, you are correct.

reply to post by redfaction



I do believe we have used them to clear out caves in Afghanistan using smaller ThermoB weapons. Pretty darn effective from what I remember as well. They are not any more "cruel" than any other weapon made to kill another person. That's kinda what they are supposed to do, hopefully with a minimum of friendly losses. The impact wave and explosion are pretty powerful.

reply to post by pavil


the weapon that everyone is talking about is also know as a FAE bomb. from my knowledge of the bomb and how it works and how it is detonated, is that it does not blow up on contact with the ground it detonates above the ground to get maximum kill. it is also only air dropped on the target i as my time as an f.o. i cant think of one time that we ever used one in iraq or afghanistan and i know that you would never use it in a cave system because there would be no deployment method. i also know a good example of one if you wanted to check it out, is on the movie outbreak. they drop one in the begining on the camp in vietnam, and also at the end out of a c130 into the ocean. also tot from artillery is very quick. ive seen it come in the matter of minutes. it all really depends on the gun crew. now airsupport on the othre hand........

Originally posted by mattifikation
Now, I'm not saying that Israel isn't guilty of more than its share of war crimes, I'm just wondering if the same anger would be directed at anybody else who did the same thing.

If Iran today tortured a US soldier to death, Teheran would be bombed tomorrow. If there are double standards in this matter, they go pro-israel.

Originally posted by LovingSoul
Now this really blows my mind...if you look at the list of threads being discussed here on ATS you will see that many threads have numerous posts. This topic, which tells of disgraceful behaviour by Israel, goes nearly unanswered. Six posts (plus this makes seven). Where is the outrage? Where is the Israel bashing that should automatically appear when such a barbaric story is told? It seems that noone dares to cause a fuss. Are people afraid to say their piece? Israel should be charged with war crimes.

Dude, first off. There is a *huge* reason for it. Do you see any other news outlets with the story? So there is already an assumption of BS in the story.

Second off, it's war! War is Hell, period. War is not a battle of who is the most humane in attempting to assert themselves, it's about who can cause the most horrific acts to occur. Anyone... read that Anyone, who takes up arms against another, whether in defense or offense is not innocent.

If I had my way, anyone who ever threatened use of Nukes (Like Russia did the other day) should be nuked themselves. Wiped off the face of the earth just for "threatenting" the use of Nukes.

[edit on 10-3-2008 by Quazga]

The use of experimental weapons by Israel on Palestinians is nothing new. The quote used in the article is from 2006.

This is what led me to create this post:

Could the billions of US dollars being funneled into Israel every year actually be "research money" to prepare for the New World Order? Could the Israeli military aggression we are seeing almost daily on the news be what we have in store for us?? Then we have a lot to learn from the Palestinian people as they continue to fight back.

Originally posted by redfaction
reply to post by ergoli

 

[Israeli's] are ruthless when it comes to terrorism or and type of fundamentalist or extremist.

Which is ironic when you consider that the Jewish state was created in Palestine through Jewish fundamentalism and extremism.

I want to point out first that I'm not justifying anything here.

But I can understand the crazy choices. When your citizens are being hit all the time with missles and bombs in their own houses, it can make you a little crazy.

Personally If I was the leader of a country and the other country next door said basically that my god believes you are evil and it is my overall goal to kill all of you and every once in a while lobbed bombs, and shot missles at homes of my everyday citizens. Well personally I would send my army in and try to take out that bad element. The next time it happened i would send my army in like the wrath of god and there wouldn't be anything left except ash and dust.

I no way do I like using banded weapons of any such. My barbarism to someone who keeps killing my innocent citizens would only be the legal barbarism.

I also think the U.S also used this weapon in South America
back when the U.S raided Bob Fletcher has a DVD about it
Right after we went in with the 117s in the air raid
and we then went in on ground and tested this weapon
It cooked people... showed pictures on the DVD,, this is where the weapon was first tested 20+ years ago
P.S im new here,,,

I agree with you poor Palestinian's I would be pissed as well if someone invaded my own country and killed all of my innocent civilians. Those Israelis are simply ruthless.

Originally posted by mightymouth
The use of experimental weapons by Israel on Palestinians is nothing new. The quote used in the article is from 2006.

This is what led me to create this post:

Could the billions of US dollars being funneled into Israel every year actually be "research money" to prepare for the New World Order? Could the Israeli military aggression we are seeing almost daily on the news be what we have in store for us?? Then we have a lot to learn from the Palestinian people as they continue to fight back.

So your postulating that its possible that the Israelis are going to attack the US? The most ardent, steadfast supporters that they have? I respectfully disagree.

What's more, to insinuate that we have something to learn from the Palestinians that "continue to fight back" is on par to saying that we have alot to learn from people like Bin Laden. Its beyond the pale, and a very ignorant comment, with all due respect. The Israeli people havent been living with terrorism for 7 years, or 10 years, but for DECADES. Look at Munich, look at wars of the 60s that were largely the product of Arab hostilities. Now, when the people of Sderot cannot go a day without being rocket-attacked, you think that the Israelis are the ones who are monsters? That they are testing "new weapons" on Palestinians? I would ask you to present any sort of unbiased proof to substantiate this claim.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect your opinion. I totally disagree with it, but I respect it nonetheless. That being said, How many Palestinian markets have been subject to Israeli suicide bombers? How many Palestinians have been captured by Israelis, and their execution videos published online? Most of the casualties of this current conflict are the result of cowardly Palestinian fighters hiding amongst the populace, amongst civilians. If they had any honor, they would protect their people, but they don't. Rather, they kill innocent Israelis, then kill innocent Palestinians, all the while claiming to be Righteous.

Sickening.

reply to post by redfaction


I'll have to dig up the link, it's basically an shoulder fired weapon that penetrates the cave, then releases the fuel/oxygen mixture down inside the cave then ignites it all. Most fuel airs don't work well in caves due to the lack of air/oxygen, this solves that. When it detonates, besides the blast, it has the added effect of sucking out all the air in the tunnels, effectively asphyxiating all those in the caves. No worrying about booby traps and ambushes and very effective.


Here's one weapon system www.globalsecurity.org...
And here's the one I was talking about:

blog.wired.com...

[edit on 10-3-2008 by pavil]

Could somebody please explain to me why ripping human beings to shreds with red hot steel is more civilized than ripping human beings to shreds with a pressure wave? Would it make you feel any better if Israel rounded all of those people up and gave them painless lethal injections (with an alcohol swab to prevent infection, of course)? Personally I wouldn't consider that less barbaric, all things being equal.

The topic "Is Israel using thermobaric weapons?" (i wont dignify the word play with a response) is missing the point entirely. It's semantic nonsense for the benefit of those who need a citation of legal technicalities before they can be absolutely certain that it is wrong to kill people who haven't done anything to deserve it.

The real question is this: Is Israel blowing up innocent people just for the sake of ease?

reply to post by The Vagabond


www.abovetopsecret.com...


so we have an Israeli minister saying there will be a holocaust - but brought on themselves - and AOE weapons...

Good point Harlequin. A holocaust would be acceptable, but using these weapons to do it is just the straw the breaks the camel's back. If the greatest evil imaginable is going to be visited upon a people on the basis of their ethnicity, then by god it had better be done by the book!

Throw me a bone guys, I'm trying to crack the moral code underlying this thread but I'm getting nowhere.

There is no morality , you have supporters on both sides trying to justify , from teh safety of there own chairs the mass murder being committed everyday on BOTH side of the conflict - these are people who want to get on with there lives yet some lunatics want to kill them in `new and interesting` ways - remeber this has been going on for 60 years , and please remember it started with Irgun etc fighting the British even before the war ended.

There is no underlying moral thread but rather an attempt at a strawman type argument

Any munitions used with pourpose against civilians is wrong. Be it a Daisy cutter, cluster munitions,

The difference between a thermobaric and a conventional explosive is that one carries an oxidizer the other uses the oxygen in the air. The effects on unprotected civilians is the same.

Thermobarics are not in the testing phase and I do not believe have been banned by the Geneva Convention.

Thermobarics have been around since WWII (in the form of flamethrowers) and have continued to see deployment and action throughout the later 20th century. They are quite effective and considered to be among the most destructive conventional weapons in any military's inventories.

The US still uses them, Russia still uses them, several other nations still use them. There are many forms of thermobarics.

Hey, next stop, nuclear weapons!

Shattered OUT...

P.S. I didn't read the whole thread, so if this has been discussed, just ignore it.

[edit on 10-3-2008 by ShatteredSkies]