What would prove to you that 9/11 was not a conspiracy?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
There are pics from the trial. They have been posted on here. You can find them if you wanted to.

There are no photos, or any other evidence that have been released showing bodies from the planes were in the buildings.

There are no official reports that have been released of the aircraft parts found matching any of the 9/11 planes.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by chissler

What would prove to you that 9/11 was not a conspiracy?

So why is it wrong to ask for what would prove the 9/11 official story?

Its basically the same question.

[edit on 15-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

You're asking a different question from a different perspective. It's not the same question.

This thread has a very specific subject matter and I understand that it's difficult to stay within the bounds of it. If we adhere to the question exactly, it doesn't give us an opportunity for wide ranging discussions but it's not supposed to. While answering the threads question, I asked the same question you asked-just as a point of musing mind you but I do understand what you're saying.

But again unfortunately, it does fall outside of the bounds of what this threads discussion is about. If you did start another thread asking the opposite question, I would most definitely post there. Let me know if you do.

Originally posted by jfj123
If you did start another thread asking the opposite question, I would most definitely post there. Let me know if you do.

It would be a waste of time to post another thread asking the question because people that beleive the officil story will not and cannot answer it.

There is no actual, official reports or evidence released that supports the official story, thats the point i am trying to get across and thats why there is so much disageement to my question.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
If you did start another thread asking the opposite question, I would most definitely post there. Let me know if you do.

It would be a waste of time to post another thread asking the question because people that beleive the officil story will not and cannot answer it.

No offense but if it's such a waste of time to discuss this subject, why do you keep posting ?

There is no actual, official reports or evidence released that supports the official story, thats the point i am trying to get across and thats why there is so much disageement to my question.

The reason there is disagreement with your question is that it is not appropriate for this thread.

I think it's a good question and I'd like to see what posters have to say about it however, they can't answer it in this thread.

Originally posted by jfj123
No offense but if it's such a waste of time to discuss this subject, why do you keep posting ?

I keep posting to try to get people to think and do research, not just go along with what they have been told.

People should file FOIA requests and e-mail companies that were at ground zero like i have to try to get information on what really happened that day.

[edit on 16-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
No offense but if it's such a waste of time to discuss this subject, why do you keep posting ?

I keep posting to try to get people to think and do research, not just go along with what they have been told.

Then what you're saying is that it wouldn't be a waste of time.

People should file FOIA requests and e-mail companies that were at ground zero like i have to try to get information on what really happened that day.

Well I do agree with filing FOIA requests, I'm not a big fan of having people emailing companies that need to get their work accomplished.

Since you have stated that it isn't a waste of time to start a new thread, please let me know when you will start it so I can participate.
Thanks.

Originally posted by jfj123
Well I do agree with filing FOIA requests, I'm not a big fan of having people emailing companies that need to get their work accomplished.

I have e-mailed Tully Construction, One of the biggest contractors that was at ground zero. They wrote back and stated they could not answer my questions due to the 9/11 lawsuits.

reply to post by ULTIMA1


Ultima,

PEople have filed FOIA and contacted companies. Myself included. If you come across as a loon asking goofy questions you will be dimissed as such.

You don't have to reinvent the wheel here. What are you looking for Ultima? What pieces of the puzzle are missing for you? From all your posts over the past couple years, you seem to WANT there to be a conspiracy. You see the evidence and ignore it. I see you leaning toward being a no-planer as well and this is a little upsetts since you do appear to be a pretty smart guy.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
PEople have filed FOIA and contacted companies. Myself included.

What are you looking for Ultima? What pieces of the puzzle are missing for you?

What agencies have you flied FOIA request with? What companies have you e-mailed?

I am looking for the truth of what really happened that day. We are missing a lot of reports and evidence that have not been released, if you have done any research you would know this.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
Well I do agree with filing FOIA requests, I'm not a big fan of having people emailing companies that need to get their work accomplished.

I have e-mailed Tully Construction, One of the biggest contractors that was at ground zero. They wrote back and stated they could not answer my questions due to the 9/11 lawsuits.

Sounds reasonable.

reply to post by ULTIMA1


since, for whatever reason, you didn't want to start a new thread to ask your question, I did it for you.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

9/11 What evidence would make you believe in a conspiracy?

Hopefully this helps you.

Originally posted by jfj123
Sounds reasonable.

You did not answer my first question about what agencies you filed FOIA request and what companies you e-mailed.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
Sounds reasonable.

You did not answer my first question about what agencies you filed FOIA request and what companies you e-mailed.

You've never asked me that question. You asked that of another poster. No biggy though.

Originally posted by jfj123
You've never asked me that question. You asked that of another poster. No biggy though.

Sory, my mistake we were posting together there so i posted it to you.

But you should do FOIA requests and e-mails.

reply to post by ULTIMA1


Ultima.....here is who I have contacted:

FBI: (no reponse via e-mail)

ASME: Spoke with many at a conference in Boston. Asked them their opinions on the NIST report. All that read it agreed with the findings.

Family Members of the Victims of Flight 11: At a memorial sevice in September 2006.

FEMA: I spoke with a member of FEMA and aked questions pertaining to the collapse, and the recovery.

Grief Counselor: Stationed at Ground Zero to assist the FDNY with their pain.

Many other Engineers and Scientists with knowledge surrounding building structures.

I wrote to civilian contractors at the Pentagon. (no reponse)

DMORT: E-mailed them. No reponse yet. (they were dispatched to all impact areas. WTC / Pentagon / Shanksville)

There are also MANY others that have been notified by others and that information has been posted.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Ultima.....here is who I have contacted:

I have contacted the following.

FOIA request:

FBI
NTSB (recieved Flight 77 FDR data)
NIST
NSA (internal request)

Companies contacted:

Tully Construction (stated they could not answer due to 9/11 lawsuts)
Mazzocchi Wrecking (had most of the excavating equipment at ground zero)

And many more.

reply to post by ThatsJustWeird

There are pics from the trial. They have been posted on here. You can find them if you wanted to.

You are not convincing anyone. You telling me that pictures exist doesn't make it so. If I am not going to belive what the government tells me without evidence, what makes you think that I would believe you?

If you have pics, post em. If not, stop talking about evidence that you don't have.

You're really stretching now.... So what happened? They crashed the hijacked planes elsewhere but crashed some other planes into the buildings and ground, then sent the parts of the hijacked planes to the attack sites? That makes no sense at all. Why make things so complicated? Wouldn't it have been easier to just crash the planes you hijacked into those buildings?

Who is really stretching? Me who demands proof, and follows wherever the evidence leads? Or you, who expects me to believe proven lies?

Now you make up your own little story as if that is the only possible alternative to the official fairytale.

You don't have to go any further than this site buddy.

I'm not your buddy. If these pictures are so readily available, why don't you just go ahead and post a link? We're all waiting with pronounced anticipation. If you do not, then you will be exposed as a liar.

Then why'd you ask?

I wasn't asking for your opinion.

I think this has most of the details of most of the flights

Thanks for the link. Seriously. I will look it over in detail.

Sure they could have provided extra protection but....why? Isn't it easier to just send them away?

Why would you send away the people with the closest biological and economic ties to the primary suspect without even investigating them? All too easy to "just send them away" while people who had no ties whatsoever were being rounded up for being Muslim.

So what does the Bin Laden family have to do with anything?

I guess we'll never know, since our government was kind enough to put the safety of foreign nationals (with intimate ties to the named culprit of the attacks) ahead of national security and the safety of its own people.

The first "invasion" is a global response to the attacks. Any president, any country would have done the same.

If OBL had nothing to do with 9/11, then why did we invade Afghanistan? Why would any President in any country, attack a country that had not done anything?

The second probably would have happened anyway regardless of 9/11...

I'm sure they would have tried to come up with some other BS story to feed the sheeple. But they didn't have to with all the 9/11 fervor still in the air.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
You are not convincing anyone. You telling me that pictures exist doesn't make it so. If I am not going to belive what the government tells me without evidence, what makes you think that I would believe you?

If you have pics, post em. If not, stop talking about evidence that you don't have.

1. That's not what this thread is about.
2. Think about what you're asking me. You're asking me to post pictures of dead bodies. Again, if you want to see the pictures, just LOOK. What the # is so hard about that?

Lazy (censored) (censored)

You can find some (from the trial) here
www.rcfp.org...
Plenty of other pics elsewhere (since you obviously enjoy seeing dead bodies.)
Tell their families they didn't die.

Who is really stretching? Me who demands proof, and follows wherever the evidence leads? Or you, who expects me to believe proven lies?

Now you make up your own little story as if that is the only possible alternative to the official fairytale.

1. What has been proven??? lol
2. Then tell me what happened then? You said you don't believe those plane parts came from the planes that thousands of people saw crash into the buildings, so where did they come from? And what happened to the planes that people thought they saw crash?

I'm not your buddy. If these pictures are so readily available, why don't you just go ahead and post a link? We're all waiting with pronounced anticipation. If you do not, then you will be exposed as a liar.

What?
This thread is not about posting links to other threads on this site. You can't lift your finger to click a couple times?

I wasn't asking for your opinion.

My "opinion" was based of facts. They started resuming flights on the 13th. Since there were likely thousands of people still stuck out of the country, I'm sure some of those flights included international flights.
You're saying yourself you think the Saudi flights started around that time. What exactly are you arguing?

Why would you send away the people with the closest biological and economic ties to the primary suspect without even investigating them? All too easy to "just send them away" while people who had no ties whatsoever were being rounded up for being Muslim.

Besides having the same last name do you have any evidence they were tied to any terrorist activity?
Do you have any evidence the ones who have been rounded up have no ties whatsoever? (

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
That's not what this thread is about.

This thread asks, "What would prove 9/11 wasn't a conspiracy?" If the answer is "evidence," then no one is even trying to post any.

reply to post by ThatsJustWeird

2. Think about what you're asking me. You're asking me to post pictures of dead bodies. Again, if you want to see the pictures, just LOOK. What the # is so hard about that?

I genuinely thank you for posting the link. It is a valid research resource, but the exhibits do not meet the burden of proof.

Before I explain why, I think it important to understand that I am not exclusively aligned with any particular theory. It is quite possible that the passengers did die on the planes as reported. I am no longer willing to accept that as fact however, based on the say so of a government whose credibility has been impeached. Furthermore, there is no denying that many people did in fact die that day, which makes it all the more important to explain how and who is responsible.

Now as to the pictures contained in the source you linked to, there are several things to consider. First, is that there were hundreds of passengers on the planes, but only five victims pictured. There may indeed be many more pictures of victims, but I do not know this. Second, we have no way of knowing if the vicitms pictured were indeed passengers on the planes, or victims who were in the buildings when they were struck. Lastly, you will notice that there are no victims pictured in Shanksville.

Plenty of other pics elsewhere (since you obviously enjoy seeing dead bodies.)

This isn't about some twisted fascination with looking at dead bodies. This is about looking at evidence. So don't go clouding the issue with false accusations about me, or trying to make me look like some wacko just because I happen to know the difference between proof and propaganda.

2. Then tell me what happened then? You said you don't believe those plane parts came from the planes that thousands of people saw crash into the buildings, so where did they come from? And what happened to the planes that people thought they saw crash?

I don't know what happened, that's the whole point. But I am not going to sit here and believe what I am told by people who have been proven to be lieing.

I did not say I don't believe the parts were not airplane parts. I said that I have seen no such definitive evidence. Furthermore, there is no proof that the parts were actually from the specific planes in question either.

F.B.I. Counsel: No Attempt Made By F.B.I. To Formally Identify 9/11 Plane Wreckage

This thread is not about posting links to other threads on this site. You can't lift your finger to click a couple times?

You're right, this thread is about what would prove 9/11 was not a conspiracy. You are claiming that such proof exists, which it does not. I have done plenty of research on the subject, and have never found the proof that I stated would be necessary. So it is far more complicated than just clicking a mouse a couple of times. So don't try to imply that I have no idea what I am talking about after many hours of dedicated research.

My "opinion" was based of facts. They started resuming flights on the 13th. Since there were likely thousands of people still stuck out of the country, I'm sure some of those flights included international flights.

The facts do not support your conclusion. Just because you are "sure" international flights resumed on that date, does not make it so. Possible? Sure. Certain? Not at all.

And really it doesn't make a difference anyway. If the government truly suspected OBL, there is no way they would have let his family fly out of the country like that. That's all there is to it. Wether or not they were actually guilty of anything makes no differnce either. There are plenty of people in Guantanamo and other places who are guilty of nothing. There have been innocent people tortured to death fighting this "war on terror" yet the people with the closest ties to the terror master get a free pass. If you think that makes sense, then you are blind.

Besides having the same last name do you have any evidence they were tied to any terrorist activity?

As I just stated, the government doesn't need evidence. Especially when there is plenty of grounds for suspicion, based on family and financial ties.

Do you have any evidence the ones who have been rounded up have no ties whatsoever?

I know people personally for one. I linked to a thread earlier that shows innocents have been sent to prisons, including GTMO, and have been tortured to death. Here it is again. I suggest you watch the movie.

Taxi to the Darkside

So...you have evidence Americans were put in danger?

Aparrently we're still in danger. Isn't that why we're still fighting this war and giving up all of our rights here at home in the name of security?

The people who were responsible were in Afghanistan (not even talking about just OBL).

What evidence do you have to support this? If you can't make the tie to OBL, you can't tie Afghanistan to 9/11.

Any competent or responsible leader would have attacked them just as we did.

No, any responsible leader would have tracked down and neutralized those who were responsible for the attacks. What our leader has done, has started an American Empire.