Jesus is Not God!

reply to post by Methuselah


Thanks for replying to my question.

Gen. 1:11 has the trees made on day 3 before man;Gen. 2:8 has the trees made on day 6 after man.Gen. 1:20 has birds made out of the water on day 5;Gen. 2:19 has birds made out of the ground (after man) on day 6.Gen. 1:24, 25 has the animals made on day 6 before man;Gen. 2:19 has the animals made on day 6 after man

I agree that there is no contradiction with the trees as 1 is an account of God creating trees on Earth and the 2nd is the creation of trees in Eden.
But God would not need to create animals twice for Adam to be able to name them.God had already commanded that the animals go forth and multiply.

...so that Adam could name them (Gen. 2:19) and select a wife (Gen. 2:20). Adam, not finding a suitable one (God knew he wouldn't), God made Eve (Gen. 2:21-22).

Genesis 1:27 clearly states that Eve was made at the same time as Adam,and they were done so in the image of God.Yet Genesis 2:18-22 says that Eve wasn't made until after Adam and that she was called woman because she was taken out of man.This implies that the woman is lesser,not equal as implied in chapter 1.

The passage in Numbers is clearly stating that if the young women have not been with another man, keep them for themselves. this is a no brainer. of course you would want to keep someone who is single for yourself. if they are single and have never been married and or are not married, keep them for yourselves....

Numbers 31:18 is referring to female prisoners of war,who are in fact "women children." As they are of the enemy they are meant to be used as slaves or concubines,they were not to be taken as wives.

The passages in Hosea show a marriage that represents Gods love and how he turned a woman from a whore to someone who is committed to one man. This also represents Gods forgiveness in ones life and shows that not matter how horrible you have been, you can still be saved.

True.
But in Hosea 3:2,Hosea buys a woman,after he has already married Gomer and they have had several children.

Contradiction #3 Was the Ark empty

There may be a time difference between the book of 1 Kings & Hebrews,and the manna and rod of Aaron may be organic,but they are sacred and supernatural objects and such objects do not waste away.Hebrews 9:4 also states that the manna was kept in a golden pot,yet no mention of such a pot is mentioned in 1 Kings.



Jesus' ascent into Heaven.

Im not seeing any contradiction here, all I see is different accounts of what happened. some give a summary some give the full detail. on the first day, thomas obviously wasnt their the first time, which gave Jesus a reasonto come a second time after 8 days.

Detailed or just a summary there should be no mistakes made when it comes to such an important event.
Jesus coming a 2nd time??
As far as i'm aware Jesus ascended only once!

Baptism......which brings me right back to my point in this thread, since they are all one, it really doesnt matter which one you use. giving credit give credit to all. Jesus has many names, you can go throughout all scripture and find all sorts of names for him. Jehovah, I AM, God, Lord God, Christ, Jesus Christ, Messiah, Lord, Lord God, Father, the Word...etc...

As quoted earlier in the thread,
Hebrews 1:1-4.

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

God made Jesus.

this supposed contradictionsimply states that this person has an either an unknown origin, or they just didnt record it. doesnt mean there is a contradiction, just means they either didnt record it for some reason, or they simply dont know.

From your link.

The Levites were dependent upon genealogies.One could not serve as a priest unless he was able to establish by genealogy that he was a direct descendent of Aaron

True.
But the link you provided to explain these lines,
Hebrews 7:3

3 Without father,without mother,without descent,having neither beginning of days,nor end of life;but made like unto the Son of God;

Melchizedek has no genealogy because he was not born and he will not die;he was made like unto Jesus.



From your link.

When one believes error,the Lord will allow it to be so.His truth is always available, but if one has not the love of the truth,he will believe the lie.In each case listed, the Lord permitted folks to believe the lie,and in some cases used it as a means of judgment, but He did not lie.There is no contradiction.

Really?

2 Chronicles 18:19-22.

19 And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

As prophets speak the messages of God he is responsible for the lies.In this verse God encourages the lie;he is lying,indirectly,but still lying.


Ezekiel 14:9

9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing,I the LORD have deceived that prophet,and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Here's God admitting that he is responsible.

reply to post by jakyll


Another spawn of Satan? Brother! Seriously, I had some Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door and tell me that I just "thought" I was saved. LOL. "Only the Jehovah's Witnesses are going to heaven". I smiled indulgently and asked him to explain. He told me about the 144,00 that are the chosen ones, blah, blah, blah. I asked him how many Jehovah's Witnesses there are world wide and he told me "over 2 million". I said, "so there's a bunch of you guys that aren't going either." LOL. I don't know why he left. The coffee was almost finished brewing. Hmmm.

There are genuine Christians (despite their doctrinal knowledge of the Bible) in many denominations. The Shepherd knows His own. I don't worry about it. I don't mind discussing the bible with anybody (atheists included) but I don't like getting into doctrinal debates. If the religious ones want to label you "spawn of Satan", you're in good company. They said the same about Yeshua.

But God would not need to create animals twice for Adam to be able to name them.God had already commanded that the animals go forth and multiply.

perhaps you missed what I wrote before, let me repost this:

Genesis 2:19 is describing only the animals created in the Garden, after
man. The purpose of this second batch of animals being created was so that
Adam could name them (Gen. 2:19)

***************************************************

Genesis 1:27 clearly states that Eve was made at the same time as Adam,and they were done so in the image of God.Yet Genesis 2:18-22 says that Eve wasn't made until after Adam and that she was called woman because she was taken out of man.This implies that the woman is lesser,not equal as implied in chapter 1.

uhm the bible says that he made man in his image and made them male and female. of course this is refering to Adam and Eve, however he was refering to his work done in the sixed day, notice he doesnt mention the second creation of trees or animals either, its a brief summary. chapter 2 written by a different author (adam) explains in further detail the events that took place as well as the special relationship between and man and a woman.

This implies that the woman is lesser,not equal as implied in chapter 1.

no God created Adam first because he didnt want any advice on how to do it... lol just kidding, but I had to through that one in there. seriously tho.
this does not imply anything of the sort, a woman being less than a man, if this was so then God wouldnt have said that a man should leave his wife and they should be one flesh, you cant be one with something that is less than you now can you?
if you are refering to where the bible says that a man rules over the woman, than you are definately twisting this out of context... and beyond what it was intended for.

Numbers 31:18 is referring to female prisoners of war,who are in fact "women children." As they are of the enemy they are meant to be used as slaves or concubines,they were not to be taken as wives.

read more, and read to understand not to disprove anything. I know who they are, but just like Jesus forgave Marry Mag (abbr) here he has them take these women as wives as a sign of forgiveness and love as explained in the link i provided. and if you notice throughout scripture, God shows mercy in times of this rath.

But in Hosea 3:2,Hosea buys a woman,after he has already married Gomer and they have had several children.

ok and? what are you getting at?

Detailed or just a summary there should be no mistakes made when it comes to such an important event.
Jesus coming a 2nd time??
As far as i'm aware Jesus ascended only once!

again, here you are taking things out of context and twisting them to appear contradictary to each other when they are not. obviously you are not familiary with the different styles of writing.

God made Jesus.

we have already been over this, now while Jesus was on earth, he has given up all power to the Father meaning that in making his higher than the angels means to modify not to create.

God doesnt lie, if someone wants to believe a lie when teh truth is readily available (kinda like our situation here) he will allow them to believe the lie, because thats what freewill is.

Here's God admitting that he is responsible.

and read that verse a little more carefully, you totally jacked up what it was saying.



dude honestly, if you are going to keep throwing this stuff out there using selective evidences you are going to lose every time and honestly i have no motivation to debate with you if all you are going to do is continue to throw things out there that have been explained before. you are throwing things our of context and twisting scripture to fit your claim.

and the Lord will allow you to believe the lies if that what you desire to believe. Good luck!:bnghd:

reply to post by Methuselah

again, here you are taking things out of context and twisting them to appear contradictary to each other when they are not. obviously you are not familiary with the different styles of writing.

SUMMERY:On the 40th day Jesus ascended into Heaven.

DETAILED:Jesus,known as the Christ,who had been crucified under Roman orders,rose form the dead and ministered unto the people.On the 40th day he ascended into Heaven.His teachings live on through his Apostles & his followers.


Does that help in any way?
The essential points don't need to change when you write in a different style.
A police officer,when questioning witnesses at a crime scene,will write in shorthand.For their report they will fill in the details and they won't change the facts.

i actually am not the one who needs help, you keep skipping around in scripture with a "well how about this one?" attitude. read and understand it, thats all I can say, i have provided for you what you asked and yet you claim the same crap that I just disproved a post or two before.

learn to read and learn to understand what you Are reading, there are plenty of cross references and plenty of explanation for one to read and understand it.

do you actually believe in God? or are you just out to disprove everything you dont believe in?

reply to post by Methuselah

i actually am not the one who needs help, you keep skipping around in scripture with a "well how about this one?" attitude. read and understand it, thats all I can say, i have provided for you what you asked and yet you claim the same crap that I just disproved a post or two before.

After you replied to my question i gave an answer to all your theories.And as far as i'm concerned you have disproved nothing!

"Here's God admitting that he is responsible."

"and read that verse a little more carefully,you totally jacked up what it was saying."

This is from my theory on Ezekiel 14:9 which in KJV reads as,

And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing,I the LORD have deceived that prophet,and I will stretch out my hand upon him,and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Yet in the NIV its been changed to,

And if the prophet is enticed to utter a prophecy,I the LORD have enticed that prophet,and I will stretch out my hand against him and destroy him from among my people Israel.

I wonder why that is.

Ah,must be so those that use that version can smugly show that God indeed does not lie!

What a joke!
Some men change the Bible because they have no defence against certain queries,questions and contradictions.

The NIV also changed the origin of Evil;Isaiah 45:7

I form the light and create darkness,I bring prosperity and create disaster;I, the LORD,do all these things.

Compare with KJV version.

I form the light,and create darkness:I make peace,and create evil:I the LORD do all these things.

Oh,and to answer your question,i am a believer,but my faith doesn't suffer from blindness.

hm well... sounds like you might have to do some more studying, cuz I can read the scriptures and find no contradiction. some parts i may not understand at first but thats why I at least google it. and if I dont find the answer there, I ask my dad or ill email one of my pastors.

the bible was not written to confuse us with these so called contradictions. that would be setting us up for failure and I dont think God would have fun with that.

and some things there isnt an answer for, for example: why didnt God just create everyone already in heaven? some people dont have an answer for that, I do, but some people dont. or why did God wait 4000 years to send Jesus? i dont know the answer to that question either, but for the most part anyone can read the bible and understand it. you my friend are as a serpent questioning Gods Word and then manipulatin it. of course you think that I have proved nothing... its because you dont want to accept the answer I give which is fine, believe what you want.

you only lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink...

Good luck!



[edit on 19-3-2008 by Methuselah]

reply to post by Methuselah

you my friend are as a serpent questioning Gods Word and then manipulatin it.

And heaven forbid anyone who dares to use the mind God gave them!!

We are creatures of curiosity and,as the Bible has been manipulated for centuries by man,i believe we have every right to ask questions.


Guranga.

And heaven forbid anyone who dares to use the mind God gave them!!

oh so you do believe in God... ok

Gods word is not questionable, now you may have questions about it but that doesnt shake its foundation.
II Timothy 3:15 says "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

now if there were any contradictions in the bible, wouldnt that make God a liar? just like Eve in the garden of Eden... the serpent asked Eve "did God say...?" then he tells her that its not true, thats not what he really meant, because he is hiding something...
and with this topic, the same thing is happening. people questioning and trying to manipulate Gods Word into what they want it to say.

reply to post by Methuselah

now if there were any contradictions in the bible, wouldnt that make God a liar?

Christian scripture isn't just laws and doctrines,its also made up of stories of people's lives;stories that have been past down by the Oral Tradition.

Ever played Chinese Whispers?
Thats a good example of how,in an extremely short space of time,a few lines can change from one thing to another.
Stories that are centuries old will always have some changes.Like Robin Hood.When that story first appeared there was no Maid Marian,no evil sheriff and he didn't steal from the rich and give to the poor.

That does not make the original story tellers liars,just as contradictions in the Bible don't make God a liar.
They show that man can change a story either through misunderstanding,natural embelishment or deliberate manipulation.

If you want to see how much the Bible has been effected,and is still being effected by man,visit the site below.

biblecc.com...

As i said before,i'm not questioning God,i'm questioning man.

[edit on 27-3-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by sparda4355


you are mistaken-----the Messiah is G-D (john 1:1-14)
what you probably do not realize is that there is more than 1 member of the G-D family.
the hebrew word most frequently translated into english as G-D is Elohiym which is plural=more than 1 Being while the hebrew word Eloah also translated into english as G-D is singular meaning only 1 Being

the hebrew to english translaters did not do the best job it was possible to do which means that if some one is serious about searching for G-D's truth-----they are going to have to work for it.

reply to post by yahn goodey



well I must say that this only proves my point even more. both words are used interchangably throughout scripture, it shows that God is one being, and in other parts says that he is more than one. this does nothing but support my belief in the trinity doctrine.
this argument is just like saying the words create and made are different, which they are to an extent, but they are also the same.

and the argument that ancient man was dumb is not a good argument either (in case anyone was going to bring that up) for example to blow this out of the water is: in Genesis it is stated that light was made before the light sources, now if ancient man were dumb, he would have said that the light sources were made before light. God made light itself first to show that man should not worship the light sources such as the sun and stars.

both of these terms for God are used in different parts of scripture for a reason. if you explain God throughout the entire bible as being one person but never explain that he is three, you will never know and vise-versa.


there is no condradiction and this does nothing more than support the trinity doctrine.