Jesus is Not God!

I am not replying to any particular post, I am merely writing to get a point across ...

Don't underestimate Jesus's office as Messiah. He may not be God but he is to be reckoned with. No one goes to the Father except through him. A man will not see God before seeing the Christ first.

Some can say that the scriptures says that God says, "There is no savior but I." They use this as their proof that Jesus is God because he is also referred to as our savior. This is a good point, but, again, we cannot lean on our understanding and are to trust in god completely.

I find this to be true the more mistakes I make. The more I see other men fail, the more I trust in God, for only he is worthy of implicit trust.

Jesus said he saw Satan fall from heaven, he did NOT say he himself tossed Satan out of heaven.

But we can throw these ideas back and forth for days on end. Fact is, the Gospel is about Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. Joining a denomination is not included, believing in a false prophet is not included, believing that Jesus is God is not included, believing that Mary is a Virgin (before and after the birth) is not included, believing in the Pope is not included ... all the thief on the cross needed to believe was that Jesus was the Son of God. Truly, truly, this day you shall be with me in paradise.



Be careful what you believe. Keep the Gospel pure and unadulterated. Otherwise you are adding a requirement to the gospel - and that is NOT the true Gospel at all. Add to it and you might just be as lost as a man that does not have the Gospel.

It appears to me that you either choose to ignore the several biblical quotes that I have shown to back up my belief or you simply have not yet read them... I have had these conversations a million times before, I have done sooooooooooooooooooo much research and if you actually use a tipping scale to see which side has MORE proof it is clearly that Jesus is the SON of God and that the very FEW verses that show that Jesus could in fact be God, are simply a stretch or a translation error...

ah, one of those... "i cant be wrong because i understand it and it makes sense to me"
people often times interpret things the wrong way or read them out of context.

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
no one is perfect, not one.

Satan does not want us to believe that we can live without sin, he doesn’t want us to believe that on earth with our earthly bodies we can be perfect in the eyes of God.

careful with this context, no one is perfect until God makes us perfect (when we get to heaven).

Jesus tells us that we can in fact be perfect (Matthew 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect) (Colossians 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a bondservant of Christ, greets you, always laboring fervently for you in prayers, that you may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.), and he tells us how to be perfect (Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” Jesus as the Son of God is the proof that a HUMAN can live with out sin.

Jesus is also God not born as a descendant of Adam, anyone born of man (an earthly father) is automatically born into sin. with Jesus this is not so. The only way we can be considered perfect/righteous/holy in Gods eyes while on earth is to live out lives in such a way where we are always repnting and turning from our wicked ways. learning from out mistakes, not making them twice understanding that God forgives us when we truly ask. but we are not perfect until we get to heaven.

If the devil deceives us into believing that Jesus is God he can continue to prove to us that we can’t live with out sin, and that it is ok to go on sinning. I know a lot of people that truly believe that Jesus is God, and all of them believe that we can’t be perfect, so that is enough proof to me right there that I am on the right track.

why would the devil want us to believe that Jesus and God are one? that would make God out to be something even further beyond my understanding. If God would fit in my brain, he really wouldnt be worth worship and praise.

The more Christians that come together, the more powerful we become, and by causing us to argue and to disagree with each other, he puts a limit to how powerful we can become. This is also happening all over the place, hence all the different denominations of Christianity. It is all of the devils lies that cause us to stay separate in our search for knowledge.

true but we also have to agree on the truth, not just one interpretation, cuz it could be wrong.

Once again I would like to point out that if there is any contradiction in the Bible, the contradiction is in the interpretation not the scripture. The Bible clearly states that God cannot be tempted (James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God” for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.) by evil. Now if Jesus is God this would cause Mark 1:13 to contradict James 1:13 for Jesus was brought up on the mountain and tempted (Mark 1:13 And He was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted by Satan, and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered to Him.) by the devil. As a side note, I would like to point out that I don’t believe in coincidence because everything happens for a reason, so I don’t think that it is just by chance that the would be contradiction between James 1:13 and Mark 1:13 helps to prove that Jesus is the Son of God and not God himself.

Notice that the devil did not succeed. successfully tempting someone means that they fall into the trap they set. Jesus was not tempted, the devil tried to tempt him, but he did not succeed. being tempted would mean that Jesus would have, for at least a second, doubted his fathers word..... do I have to go on?

All one????? Jesus was not a man but God manifested in the flesh. However while he was manifested in the Flesh he was also in heaven because he does talk to Jesus several times. You also have to realize that Jesus doesn’t know what God knows at first and he doesn’t have God’s powers until they are given to him, but this still doesn’t make them separate. So you will have to either ignore that or just come up with something that makes sense to you. Now even though Jesus was born and has a birth date, you have to realize that he always was. Then you have to some how figure out how God took on the sins of the world and states that he feels separation from God and dies on the cross and is resurrected by God while he is dead. Wow that is really confusing, is it not? But wait, God is not the author of confusion (I Corinthians for God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of saints.)

Jesus had to give up his power and start out from scratch (basically). of course he isnt going to have the same power as he did in heaven because he put himself in a realm he created, a realm that man wrecked.
dude you need to understand the context in which you are reading. Jesus feels seperated from God his father because has the sins of the world on his shoulders. in a sense, seeing himself as one covered with a filth he himself cannot stand. almost like denying himself.
Jesus is God in the flesh.

Now lets focus on God and the Son of God. Jesus existed sense the beginning, not in flesh but in the mind or thought of God

in the thought or mind of God??? where did you pull this from? dont twist scripture to fit your little biased theory here.
John 1:1 says that "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." plain and simple. the Word is Jesus Christ, being with and being God means that He is God.

...more to come

Because of the fact that Jesus lived with out sin he had a connection with God that it is hard for us (sinners) to comprehend, hence the confusion with this subject.

Jesus is God so that puts a whole different kind of connection between the two.

the easiest way to understand the trinity (for me) is to think of water in its three seperate states. Ice, Liquid, Steam. all three are different forms of water, but all three are still water.

for Jesus said himself in John 14:28 “My Father is greater than I.”

again where is Jesus while he is saying this? on earth.... Jesus gave up power when he came to earth.

you need to read a little more and read it from KJV, that it by far the most accurate version of the bible.

It appears to me that you either choose to ignore the several biblical quotes that I have shown to back up my belief or you simply have not yet read them... I have had these conversations a million times before, I have done sooooooooooooooooooo much research and if you actually use a tipping scale to see which side has MORE proof it is clearly that Jesus is the SON of God and that the very FEW verses that show that Jesus could in fact be God, are simply a stretch or a translation error...

no i dont ignore them, I do however ignore the misreading of them.
your "research" obviously has lead you to believe that God is limited to your understanding of him. again your tipping scale leads me again to my point, majority opinion does not determine truth. John 1:1 is the kicker. Jesus is God.


[edit on 9-3-2008 by Methuselah]

reply to post by Methuselah


Wow... I am tired but I will give this a try anyway...

I am not saying this is so... because it makes sense to me...

I am saying this is so because if you use a tipping scale and put a marble in one side for every biblical text that backs up Jesus being God and one on the other side for Jesus being the Son of God and NOT God himself, the Jesus being NOT God will win EVERY time... I have used this during many many debates!

Second, why would the devil want us to believe that Jesus IS God? I have already said this but let me refresh you...

Satan's whole purpose on this planet is basically to prove to God that His rules are impossible to live by and that if given a choice, they (we) would prefer to live our lives in Sin... For a while Satan was winning, most of us were willingly living in Sin because we were dooped into thinking we couldn't live under God's law... God sent His Son, in the flesh and under difficult circomstances... (as low as it goes during those times, not even born inside)

Jesus being a MAN in the FLESH was able to live without Sin, proving that we can in fact do this... Satan wants us to believe Jesus was God because then Jesus PROVED NOTHING... Of course Jesus didn't Sin... HE WAS GOD!!!

This is very basic... I will add biblical proof to back this up... Oh wait, I already DID, go back and reread my boring long posts... its in there!

reply to post by sparda4355

Jesus being a MAN in the FLESH was able to live without Sin, proving that we can in fact do this... Satan wants us to believe Jesus was God because then Jesus PROVED NOTHING... Of course Jesus didn't Sin... HE WAS GOD!!!

Either way you look at it,we are not like Jesus.
If he's God he's fully divine,if he's mortal he's semi divine because God is his dad.He was actually born of the Holy Spirit,something we do not recieve until we are baptized.This means that the Spirit must be in his blood.We (if you believe this) are descendents of a creation,which makes us different to Jesus.

Jesus can never be "just a man" when he has divine parentage.

If he was God why would he pray to himself,ask himself to lift the burden he had,ask himself why has he forsaken himself etc? That sounds like deception to me,as if he was putting on some kind've show,and that doesn't sound like something Jesus would do.

reply to post by Methuselah



Several of the Gospels kept out/thrown out of the Bible contain this line,

Jesus said,"When you see one who was not born of woman, prostrate yourselves on your faces and worship him.That one is your Father."

Now,it must be remembered that the changes made to the Bible over the centuries have been done by men not for the glory of God,but for their own selfish reasons.

As the idea of the Holy Trinity didn't exist in Christianity until Rome got involved,its easy to see why verses like those above have been banned by the many Christian faiths.
It shows that Jesus is divine (a demigod),but that he definatly isn't the Heavenly Father!

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by sparda4355

 

Jesus being a MAN in the FLESH was able to live without Sin, proving that we can in fact do this... Satan wants us to believe Jesus was God because then Jesus PROVED NOTHING... Of course Jesus didn't Sin... HE WAS GOD!!!

Either way you look at it,we are not like Jesus.
If he's God he's fully divine,if he's mortal he's semi divine because God is his dad.He was actually born of the Holy Spirit,something we do not recieve until we are baptized.This means that the Spirit must be in his blood.We (if you believe this) are descendents of a creation,which makes us different to Jesus.

Jesus can never be "just a man" when he has divine parentage.

If he was God why would he pray to himself,ask himself to lift the burden he had,ask himself why has he forsaken himself etc? That sounds like deception to me,as if he was putting on some kind've show,and that doesn't sound like something Jesus would do.

Well i assume you know that I am agreeing with you that Jesus is Not God... ? If not I am confused?

As far as the Just a man comment... We are all God's children... I can show you biblical text to back this up... With out God's spirit "breath" or however you want to put it, NON of us could exist! God is IN all of us, just like He is IN Jesus...

Everything Jesus did, he showed us HOW to do... He told us to go out and heal the sick, he showed us how to walk on water (which we did until we lost faith and he said ye of little faith when will you understand (or something like that))

We CAN walk on water, we CAN heal the sick, and we CAN live our life without sin... We just choose NOT to...

Jesus lived his life as an example of HOW we SHOULD live ours! That's a fact! You already agree with the rest... He is NOT God, but rather the Son of God... He is HOLY don't get me wrong, but we too are created with the intent to be holy creatures, we just SUCK AT IT! lol

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by Methuselah

 

As the idea of the Holy Trinity didn't exist in Christianity until Rome got involved,its easy to see why verses like those above have been banned by the many Christian faiths.
It shows that Jesus is divine (a demigod),but that he definatly isn't the Heavenly Father!

I totally agree with you, today the bible is nothing more than a guidline, one must dig deep to find it's true meaning, hense all of these biblical arguements! If anybody doens't agree with me I can show you many many contridicitons within the bible! If the bible has never been altered, then it should be contridiciton free!

I agree that Jesus was born of the Father, I believe him to be our Savior and Holy, but Jesus himself says Don't pray to me, pray to the Father! He would NOT say that if he were GOD!

I am saying this is so because if you use a tipping scale and put a marble in one side for every biblical text that backs up Jesus being God and one on the other side for Jesus being the Son of God and NOT God himself, the Jesus being NOT God will win EVERY time... I have used this during many many debates!

again, just because you have a lot of quotes, this does not mean that you have the right answer... it is very possible that you are reading them out of context. A lot of the scriptures are plain and convey a message in a plain manner. some others are written in a certain context and and are meant to be read in that context of course with cross references to assure that one is reading them in the right context.

Jesus being a MAN in the FLESH was able to live without Sin, proving that we can in fact do this... Satan wants us to believe Jesus was God because then Jesus PROVED NOTHING... Of course Jesus didn't Sin... HE WAS GOD!!!

Wow, different conclusion than most of what the bible teaches.
"All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" If Jesus is not God then he too has fallen short according to your version of this topic.
we cannot live without sin, we are born with it, it is in our blood because of adam, why do you think Jesus Christ didnt have an earthly father. If God had used the seed of Joseph as means to enter our realm then we would have been born with sin.
Jesus simply paved a way and paid our wages ("for the wages of sin is death") the reason he came as a man was so that he could suffer our consequences. He had to die a human death (btw thats who he is saving, humans)

This is very basic... I will add biblical proof to back this up... Oh wait, I already DID, go back and reread my boring long posts... its in there!

oh wait, all I saw was selected evidences. you only picked the parts that supported your theory. (which were few) you failed to include any references having to do with the Godhead or trinity. (which there are).
your argument is very biased and contains strictly non-trinity, out of context, scriptures.

reply to jakyll ~ good post!

I totally agree with you, today the bible is nothing more than a guidline, one must dig deep to find it's true meaning, hense all of these biblical arguements! If anybody doens't agree with me I can show you many many contridicitons within the bible! If the bible has never been altered, then it should be contridiciton free!

I agree that Jesus was born of the Father, I believe him to be our Savior and Holy, but Jesus himself says Don't pray to me, pray to the Father! He would NOT say that if he were GOD!

there are no contradictions in the bible at all. many that have been brought up are due to a lack of understanding, or someone wasnt paying attention to what they were reading and got two things confused that didnt have anything to do with each other. like I said I have yet to see one.

how do you know he wouldnt say that? are you God?

so basically what you are saying is that you have God figured out, correct?

reply to post by sparda4355

Jesus lived his life as an example of HOW we SHOULD live ours! That's a fact! You already agree with the rest... He is NOT God, but rather the Son of God... He is HOLY don't get me wrong, but we too are created with the intent to be holy creatures, we just SUCK AT IT! lol

Very true.
It doesn't help that the Bible has been distorted so we have lost a lot of its original teachings and meanings.

reply to post by Methuselah

we cannot live without sin, we are born with it, it is in our blood because of adam, why do you think Jesus Christ didnt have an earthly father. If God had used the seed of Joseph as means to enter our realm then we would have been born with sin.

If you believe in the theory of Original Sin,then you have to believe that Eve also carried this sin.Which means that if you have at least 1 human parent then you carry the taint of her and Adam's transgression.

Their act may have brought death into the world,but Jesus' new covenant was everlasting life.His sacrafice washed away Adam & Eve's sin.

Thus,through Christ's life, death and resurrection God inaugurates and seals with blood the new covenant, which ensures the forgiveness of all sins, secures the final victory over every form of death,and guarantees the coming end-time when all humanity will be reconciled with God,with each other and with creation.

To teach Original Sin is to teach false doctrine,it no longer applies as Jesus gave his life so that we may live without sin.


I agree that it can be difficult to interpret many of the Bible's meanings,but i think thats because we don't study the complete scriptures.The Vatican banned many books which,to us,are "lost",but to various Christian faiths are actually forbidden.

there are no contradictions in the bible at all.

Now this,i don't agree with.
The Bible contains 100's of contradictions,probably because of mistranslation,but more likely to do with man's manipulation of the texts.They start in the very first book of the Bible,Genesis.The site below has good examples.(it also has some bad ones too.lol.)














You may also find this site interesting.






[edit on 10-3-2008 by jakyll]

If you believe in the theory of Original Sin,then you have to believe that Eve also carried this sin.Which means that if you have at least 1 human parent then you carry the taint of her and Adam's transgression.

read I Timothy 2:13-15, this sheds some light on why Eve does not pass on sin through her seed.

ok i looked at the first "contradiction" you linked... uhm you are missing a huge factor here.
the first author of the bible is God. as far as I know there are actually 10 different authors to Genesis(Moses was the editor) if you are familiar with the term "teledoth" you would know that this is a style of writing. "these are the generations of" is like a signature block for whoever is writing, at the end of theiir writing they sign with a phrase like this.
like I said before, contradictions are not because the bible is written wrong. its beause people do not pay attention and skip over small things like this that help them understand why things are written the way they are.
God said he made the beasts and then man.... adam was explaining/recapping what God did and wrote it himself. no contradiction, just two different perspectives. thats all.
With Genesis you have to be careful not to lose track of who is writing.

thats just one contradiciton, i didnt even look at the other, but ill bet you can read the scriptures carefully, not just the one or two verses provided and come to an understanding that it was being read out of context.

its very simple, read it, make sure you understand it and read it some more, iff you dont understand it that doesnt mean its wrong or a contradictary, just because you dont understand something doesnt make it invalid.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness : God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (I Timothy 3:16)

I know this scriptural reference has surfaced in this thread, but, I think it stands evident in its wording: controversy and mystery of godliness , to the extent that yes, the controversy of Jesus being God in the flesh should be without controvery and accepted, because, what is not obvious to our understanding, God has worked out this mystery through Christ and it should go without question (without controvery).

[edit on 10-3-2008 by jdposey]

reply to post by jakyll

I agree with your conclusion. No more sin, it is a dishonor to the cross, to engage in sinful thought. Christ gave us freedom from sin by teaching us the correct way in which to think and act. Jesus will be coming back to judge very soon, if he isn't already here and as strange as it might sound he is coming to teach and if you don't listen adios. That's the way I see it.

I could be wrong but i doubt it.

reply to post by Methuselah

thats just one contradiciton, i didnt even look at the other, but ill bet you can read the scriptures carefully, not just the one or two verses provided and come to an understanding that it was being read out of context.

So you dismiss all because of one?


What was in the Ark of the Covenant?

1 Kings 8:9
There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone,which Moses put there at Horeb,when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

2 Chronicles 5:10
There was nothing in the ark save the two tables which Moses put therein at Horeb,when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel,when they came out of Egypt.

Hebrews 9:4
The ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold,wherein was the golden pot that had manna,and Aaron's rod that budded,and the tables of the covenant.

Is the Law of God Perfect?

Psalm 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect,converting the soul:the testimony of the LORD is sure,making wise the simple.

Hebrews 8:6-8
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry,by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.8:7.For if that first covenant had been faultless,then should no place have been sought for the second.8:8 For finding fault with them,he saith,Behold,the days come,saith the Lord,when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Has anyone ever ascended into heaven?

John 3:13
No man hath ascended up to heaven,but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

2 Kings 2:11
And it came to pass,as they still went on,and talked,that,behold,there appeared a chariot of fire,and horses of fire,and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

How did Judas die?

Matthew 27:5
And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple,and departed,and went and hanged himself.

Acts 1:18
Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity;and falling headlong,he burst asunder in the midst,and all his bowels gushed out.

Are we punished for the sins of others?

Exodus 20:5
I the Lord thy God am a jealous God,visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation,of them that hate me.

Ezekiel18:18-20
18:18 As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed,spoiled his brother by violence,and did that which is not good among his people,lo,even he shall die in his iniquity.18:19 Yet say ye,Why?doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father?When the son hath done that which is lawful and right,and hath kept all my statutes,and hath done them,he shall surely live.18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father,neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him,and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Not all contradictions are misunderstandings by the reader,some are clear cut.

God said he made the beasts and then man.... adam was explaining/recapping what God did and wrote it himself. no contradiction, just two different perspectives. thats all.

Genesis 1:27 states that man & woman were created at the same time.
Genesis 2:21-23 states that woman came from man.Adam is aware of what God has done.Adam:"...she will be called woman because she was taken out of man..."
If he was explaining God's story it would appear he did some inventing of his own because it clearly doesn't tally with what God actually did.

reply to post by Inverted_VaV



The Bible tells us,

1 John 5:18-20.

5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself,and that wicked one toucheth him not.5:19 And we know that we are of God,and the whole world lieth in wickedness.5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come,and hath given us an understanding,that we may know him that is true,and we are in him that is true,even in his Son Jesus Christ.This is the true God,and eternal life.

Original Sin has been used as a weapon for centuries by various Christian faiths.When people live in a state of fear they are easier to control and manipulate.And those who wield that weapon have power and wealth.

Like you say,its dishonor.Its also denying Jesus' sacrafice.
If we live in a state of sin,then what was the point of Jesus being crucified?
It makes no sence.If the death of Jesus took away the sins of man then it is impossible for us to be born into sin.A baby can not be both innocent and guilty.Logic says that we are born innocent,yet being human we are vulnerable to temptations unless we are baptized by the Holy Ghost and live the laws and teachings of Jesus and God.

reply to post by jakyll


That *hit almost makes me wanna cry, pardon my language. Its like this, the people plucking that particular theological string believe in the nonsense themselves. They see nothing at all wrong with what they are doing. Christianity has become a religion of convenience. They have made the cross of no effect and don't even know it!!! Insult to injury, you can't tell them to smarten up because they like living in their sin! Whoaaaaa Whooooooo! Im saved, I am saved, I am saved!!!

you all need to learn how to read and comprehend what you are reading. take all those references you gave me and read a few chapters before and after from a KJV bible. not a NKJV just a simple KJV. it is by far the most accurate version of the bible. no other ideas weasled into its teachings.
if you read and understand what it is the author is talking about you will understand that there is no contradiction.

plus this thread is getting way off topic, we are talking about Jesus not being God and the lackk of evidence to back that theory up. so lets stick to that topic, if someone wants to make another thread on contradictions in the bible... make one and post a link. but lets stick to the topic here.

Jesus is God: references ---

Hebrews 1:2-3
Colossians 1:16
Romans 11:36
John 1:1-3,10
Romans 1:20
Acts 17:29
Matttew: 28:19-20
Ephesians 2:18 3:16
I John 5:7

if you dont think these are clearly telling us that there is a trinity... and that we are putting limits upon our idea of God.... i dont know what to tell you. to me its clear as day that all three are one.

reply to post by Methuselah

you all need to learn how to read and comprehend what you are reading. take all those references you gave me and read a few chapters before and after from a KJV bible. not a NKJV just a simple KJV. it is by far the most accurate version of the bible. no other ideas weasled into its teachings.if you read and understand what it is the author is talking about you will understand that there is no contradiction.

All my Bible quotes are KJV,its the only one i ever use.
And i must say that you seem to posses a large amount of denial about Bible contradictions.Faith should never be blind y'know.

If Matthew says Judas hung himself and in Acts it says he fell & his bowels gushed out,no amount of denial will change the fact that that is a contradiction!



Triple deities have been around for 1000's of years and they are 1 of 4 things;

1.)Triadic ("forming a group of three"):a triad,3 entities inter-related in some way (life, death, rebirth, for example, or triplet children of a deity) and always or usually associated with one another or appearing together.

2.)Triune ("three-in-one, one-in-three"):a being with three aspects or modes of existence.

3.)Tripartite ("of triple parts"):a being with 3 body parts where there would normally be 1 (3 heads,3 pairs of arms, and so on.)

4.)Triplicate-associated ("relating to three corresponding instances"):a being in association with a trio of things of the same nature which are symbolic.



Hebrews 1:2-3.

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,whom he hath appointed heir of all things,by whom also he made the worlds;3 Who being the brightness of his glory,and the express image of his person,and upholding all things by the word of his power,when he had by himself purged our sins,sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Add to that Hebrews 1:4-6.

4 Being made so much better than the angels,as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time,Thou art my Son,this day have I begotten thee? And again,I will be to him a Father,and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world,he saith,And let all the angels of God worship him.

God appoints Jesus his heir,he claims him as his only begotten son,a son who he made, he brought him into the world,an impossibilty if they are 1 and the same.


Colossians 1:16.

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Add Colossians 1:12-19.

12 Giving thanks unto the Father,which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness,and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

In this passage Paul is talking About God,not Jesus.In lines 12 & 19 he uses the word Father,according to Jesus God is the Heavenly Father.Line 13 tells us that God "hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son."


Romans 1:20.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,being understood by the things that are made,even his eternal power and Godhead;so that they are without excuse:

Meaning of Godhead:The essential and divine nature of God.
It does not mean trinity/triple.
Elsewhere in this chapter Paul says,

4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Its clear that Paul believes Jesus and God to be 2 seperate beings.


Romans 11.
Jesus isn't mentioned once in this chapter!


John 1:1-3.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

What has this go to do with Jesus??


Mattew:28:19-20.

19 Go ye therefore,and teach all nations,baptizing them in the name of the Father,and of the Son,and of the Holy Ghost:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always,even unto the end of the world.Amen.

I must be missing the point of this 1.

Line 18 says,

And Jesus came and spake unto them,saying,All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

If he is God why would power have to be given to him?


Acts 17:29.

29 For as much then as we are the offspring of God,we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold,or silver,or stone,graven by art and man's device.

Again,godhead does not equal trinity.


I John 5:7.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven,the Father,the Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one.

No mention of the Son here.


Ephesians 2:18/3:16.

2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

If Jesus is God why would people need Jesus to access God?

16 That he would grant you,according to the riches of his glory,to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

I fail to see how this proves that Jesus is God.