The Gullibility of Evolutionists

Originally posted by AshleyD
Well, it is a real word

Aye, it's just a crappy one. An 'atomicist' would be a proponent of atomic theory.

Just a silly word really. I think 'religionist' is a naff word as well.

Yes, you were the one who had repeatedly used the phrase on here but it felt rude to call you out by name so you were never specified.

Not rude at all. Not as if it's anything to be ashamed of. If you want to do such a thing, I suppose it might be rude to do so without at least telling me - however, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

I've talked about this a bit before. A creationist once told me evolutionists believe things like whales give birth to cows and that is how new species come about.

Yup, it is a problem, and it's not just creationists, quite a few people have a poor grasp of evolutionary theory, and science in general.

I'm not even an expert in evolutionary biology myself, just a scientist who has an interest.

Not all creationists are 'one of those.' Contrary to what many people claim, our IQ does not drop 50 points the minute we accept Jesus.

Well, of course. Many people who accept evolutionary theory are christians, and most christian scientists are 'evolutionists'. There are people I consider friends in real-life, and on here, who are theists I find bright and interesting. I disagree with them on certain issues, as you would expect - but we do generally understand each other.

I hear what you're saying. Sure, both sides say stuff that will make us cringe and that's fine. Not everyone is going to have a PhD.

Some of the people I mentioned do have PhDs. Dr Dr Dembski has two, Jonathan Wells has one in biology. Behe has one, and was ripped a new a-hole by a young grad student last year. A PhD isn't really a sign that someone will be a good honest scholar, just that they have written and defended a thesis. Their arguments and evidence are most important, rather than their academic status (and that holds for me too).

This is why they are best viewed as sophists, as they must know what they are doing. I was listening to one MD IDer in a radio debate the other month state that there are no whale transitionals, heh. This guy has even written a book on the fossil record.

But I've also seen evolutionists still using debunked evidence to confirm their side though.

And I hope you correct them if they do. I generally do myself if I think no-one will correct them. But just look around the web. Google 'paluxy', check the creationist sites using it as evidence. Google 'piltdown man', check the 'evolutionist' sites that use it as evidence. I'm sure you'll find a staggering difference in approach.

Hope you're not referring to me because I never said there were no transitional fossils- only fossils opened to interpretation and Darwin's prediction that seemed to not have been confirmed.

Nah, I wasn't actually. I wouldn't even remember if you had said it, I hear this sort of stuff all the time on here. I do remember you linking to the Do While-Jones website - that is full of creationist canards.

I think the most important aspects of Darwin's original ideas are now well-established. Some have been falsified though, for example, pangenesis. But he was just one man with a compelling idea about nature, not a seer.

Any luck on a definition of 'macroevolution'?


[edit on 8-3-2008 by melatonin]

Originally posted by intrepid
You guys want to get a room or something? This personal junk ends now. No "buts". The T&C will be strictly enforced from this point on. If you're not familiar with it, check it out.

Point taken and with that, Ill graciously let who ever have the last word as I don't see much point in arguing this age old debate any further.


Warm Regards everyone

and I DO mean everyone.


- Con

Originally posted by Conspiriology
Hi Mel,, We may not agree on much but I just wanted to compliment you

[just an effort to relieve teh intertubz tenshuns]

Originally posted by melatonin

[just an effort to relieve teh intertubz tenshuns]

OMG! That made me bust a gut and spill my drink everywhere!

You know when you click the button that allows you to go right to the last post? Well, I did that and when that image came up (I'm very sleepy right now) it made me jump and spill my drink everywhere.

Ok, back to business...

[edit on 3/8/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD


Hi Ash,
Just stepped in on page 1. Although I am a Christian and am pro-Creationism, I do like to keep an open mind about things. Who says that God can't operate through science? I feel that all things will be revealed in time. To me, evolution does not answer all the questions, but at this point, neither does creationism (for those that are questioning).

[edit on 8-3-2008 by sizzle]

reply to post by sizzle


I agree. Sadly, there are people on both sides who refuse to budge. Some evolutionists (typically atheistic) refuse to believe this complex system of life was anything but an accident. Some creationists (typically YEC's) completely reject anything to do with mutations and adaptations even when such things are mentioned in the Bible. Go figure. To me, I think it's pretty cool God programmed His creation to 'be fruitful and multiply' and adapt to an ever changing environment. The only thing I refuse to 'bend on' is the fact God did it.

reply to post by AshleyD


Unfortunately for you the Genesis account has never been used to describe how evolution works. I mean do you really think that people knew what micro-evolution is 2000 years ago?? Hmm… I would recommend that you find a good therapist. Good luck Ashley.

reply to post by Clearskies

Earth is approximately 4.55 billion years old. Radiometric dating, a method that measures the level of radioactive decay in rocks to determine how old they are has consistently aged moon rocks and meteorites at 4.4 to 4.6 billion years old. Ages of these types of rocks provide the most accurate estimates of the age of Earth and the rest of the solar system because they have not been subjected to the same forces that recycle Earth's crust. As new land forms along cracks between the planet's continental plates, old rocks are destroyed. Thus, the oldest rocks on Earth may not exist anymore. The oldest dated minerals, at 4.0 to 4.2 billion years old, are tiny zircon crystals found in sedimentary rocks in western Australia.

Source


Mod Edit: No Quote/Plagiarism – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 11-3-2008 by Gemwolf]

I think calling us gullible is a bit extreme.

The fact is, there are many ways we can tell that we have evolved. One is looking at us evolving right now.

Until recently, our brain was constructed in such a way as to really only be able to handle a town of around 50 people. It actually explains why a lot of people act they way they do.

Recently, our brains have been doing some work. Many of us, have a new gene that allows us to fit in more developed societies. Most of us have a mix of the old gene and the new one, while some of us either have the old or new gene.

Evolution is quite real.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by sizzle

 

I agree. Sadly, there are people on both sides who refuse to budge. Some evolutionists (typically atheistic) refuse to believe this complex system of life was anything but an accident. Some creationists (typically YEC's) completely reject anything to do with mutations and adaptations even when such things are mentioned in the Bible.

It is apparent that there are other issues at stake, issues of great importance that must be considered. For all of the time in man's history, his behavior has depended to a large extent on his culture and his culture has been based largely on religious concepts. Human behavior was determined by these religious concepts. People were judged using religious concepts as a basis. If those religious concepts were not true, then the entire culture could collapse. People feared the consequences when something was discovered, or thought to be discovered, that appeared to be contrary to religious thinking and dogma.

reply to post by Sublime620


Thanks. I like your point.

reply to post by kemo_d7

It is apparent that there are other issues at stake, issues of great importance that must be considered.

Yes such as the new dogma of the physical (atheism) wishes to take control from the old dogma of the non-physical (theism) and willing to bend its nifty neutral friend science's statements into statements that support their dogma. As is evidenced in what you said after that statement. Which is also it should be noted a friend of the theists too but eh.
When the neutral friend science is woefully inequiped to deal with anything non-physical should they exist.
Lets also not forget the simple fact that atheism likes to blame concepts rather than people for their excesses and "sins" and if only that concept was replaced with their concept would the world be a better place which is of course to any rational person pure hooey.

Thats the problem in a nutshell.
Humanities inability to NOT polarise and NOT realise nothing is as black and white as he/she/them likes to to pretend it is.
Otherwords they go in one direction and it doesn't seem to work very well so they decide to go off in the other extreme which it should be common sense doesn't work very well either and take YEARS to figure that out. Of course forgetting that the other side of the extreme they started in wasn't very good either they bounce back to that extreme it's almost like a never ending retarded game of friggin tennis.

[edit on 9-3-2008 by WraothAscendant]

reply to post by WraothAscendant

We Are Atheists Because...

1. There is no proof of the existence of god.
2. There is no need of, or use for, a god.
3. A good god would be useless if it were not powerful.
4. A powerful god would not deserve worship if he were not good.
5. There is no all-powerful good god; otherwise there would be no imperfection.
6. If this is the best world god can make, the stories of Heaven must be lies.
7. History shows that godism is accompanied by ignorance and superstition.
8. There has never been such intolerance and persecution as godists have practiced.
9. Godism had to be fought when humankind made its successive steps toward science, liberty, and reform.
10. Godism was invented in the earliest days of mankind's ignorance. It is incredible that primitive humans guessed wrongly about everything else, but discovered the truth about the origin of life. Everything about which science has discovered the origin was claimed previously to have been the work of a god. Godism recedes when a new fact is discovered. No new discovery ever supports a theistic explanation of anything.
11. All revelation proves, on investigation, to be human, and generally fraudulent.
12. Godism is consistent with crime, cruelty, envy, hatred, malice, and uncharitableness.

Source

[edit on 11-3-2008 by Gemwolf]

Originally posted by kemo_d7


1. There is no proof of the existence of god.

Atheists do not believe in any evidence for God’s existence because they don’t believe in God and they do not believe in God because they do not believe in the evidence for God’s existence. I have heard this circular logic many times and just because you can say it in BOLD,,

Doesn’t give it an iota of additional credence

2. There is no need of, or use for, a god.

Unless the Atheist can Prove there is no need of or use for a God, then he cannot use this argument to say God doesn't exist. This is ad-ignoramus this argument assumes no use for an all powerful God over a mortal finite human being is to suggest that we or "you" are ready to fill that position, that we have no use for such a God when I can cancel your vote just as easily saying, indeed we do.

3. A good god would be useless if it were not powerful.

Unless the Atheist can prove a good god would be useless if it were not powerful then he cannot use this argument to say God doesn't exist. The argument is ambiguous and doesn't define Powerful. Does god have a Powerful odor or Powerful left hook? The writer doesn't define "good" and against what benchmark would one define the difference of good god. Unless you can prove what a Good God is, then this can not be used to say that God doesn't exist when all you are doing is postulating your idea of what YOU think God should be like which also explains another logical fallacy you make later in this post.

4. A powerful god would not deserve worship if he were not good.

You may not think a Powerful God deserves it but WHAT IF a POWERFUL GOD SAYS EVERY KNEE WILL BEND EVERY HEAD WILL BOW.

In the words of Clint Eastwood,, in that case "deservin's got nuthin to do with it."

5. There is no all-powerful good god; otherwise there would be no imperfection.

Unless the Atheist can prove no all-powerful good god; otherwise there would be no imperfection. Then he cannot use this argument to say God doesn't exist. Again this is purely subjective and your opinion as to what is perfect and what is not. What other earth have you been to where we can totally abuse the crap out of the planet for this long and still it sustains us.

6. If this is the best world god can make, the stories of Heaven must be lies.

Unless the Atheist can Prove this world has anything to do with what heaven is like then he cannot use this argument to say God doesn't exist. The argument is pure conjecture without basis of fact

7. History shows that godism is accompanied by ignorance and superstition.

If their are 17 known Gods and one is real then 16 are predicated on hearsay, rumor and superstition but in NO way does that have any bearing on the one.

8. There has never been such intolerance and persecution as godists have practiced.

Society of Atheists or at any time in history where Atheism has gained control of the state, it has proved to be a bloody bloody outcome.

“The program of the Communist International also clearly states that Communists fight against religion…Remember that the struggle against religion is a struggle for socialism.”-E. Yaroslavsky,

“Our party program is in its entirety built upon a scientific hence materialistic world view….Thus our program necessarily contains the propaganda of atheism.”

“Atheism is a material and inseparable part of Marxism, of the theory and practice of scientific Socialism. In accordance with their fundamental philosophical outlook, Marx and Engels always called themselves materialists.” - Lenin

Godless Society has been the most evil of all ideology inherent in all country's that have embraced it. www.freerepublic.com...

Godism had to be fought when humankind made its successive steps toward science, liberty, and reform.

What exactly are you trying to say? You won't find many if any Atheists in Fox holes pal, and a helluva lot of Christians died for your liberty to say such an ignorant statement.

10. Godism was invented in the earliest days of mankind's ignorance. It is incredible that primitive humans guessed wrongly about everything else, but discovered the truth about the origin of life.

(This is a logical fallacy that claims that God cannot exist because human beings invented the idea of God’s existence).
Unless the atheists can prove that humans invented the idea of God, they cannot claim that God does not exist for this reason.
Maybe God exists and put the idea of his existence in our heads.

11. All revelation proves, on investigation, to be human, and generally fraudulent.

Unless the Atheist can prove he has seen the end of the world and it is nothing like Revelation gives as prophesy then he can not use this argument to say that it serves to substantiate humans as generally fraudulent

12. Godism is consistent with crime, cruelty, envy, hatred, malice, and uncharitableness.

Sounds like it might be right up atheisms alley then.

- Con


[edit on 9-3-2008 by Conspiriology]

And at the end people, no matter how much bickering and bashing, still the fact is that the only prove of a God with human characteristics as the one depicted in the bible is still and will ever be nothing more than a myth and the creation of the creators as human as you and me.

Sad but truth.

Without the bible historical accounts of the Israeli people and their relationship with their gods later to become one god under their patriarch Abraham Christianity will not have a leg to stand on.

Originally posted by Conspiriology

12. Godism is consistent with crime, cruelty, envy, hatred, malice, and uncharitableness.

Sounds like it might be right up atheisms alley then.

- Con

Actually the God of Abraham was a very spiteful God with only one thing in mind War.

Now in the name of religion and spreading religion in the world the most henious crimes against humanity has been committed.

And that is a fact

A very interesting video preview on this subject...

www.fixed-point.org...

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Thans but no thanks the Christian move, history is very well documented for the last 30 years or so they are playing the same game as corporate lobbyist in Washington, the multibillion dollar empire that religion has become now can buy their own version of their stories in which they build their own version of truths.

Actually is a thread on how the power of religious rights has become wealthy enough to pay for their own propaganda.

reply to post by Conspiriology

The fact is that the human is an outstanding example of a very poor design. The study of our DNA is in its infancy yet more than 15000 known defects that cause untold misery, insanity and even death have been cataloged. It is a creature that walks upright but has the spine and sinus design of a creature that walks on all fours, resulting in much human misery especially with age. It was designed with the ability to be logical then blessed with a set of instincts working in adverse directions. It spends much of its time and assets in killing each other. It robs, rapes and murders. A peaceful country requires armies to protect itself.

A large percentage of the population must be locked away in jails to protect the welfare of the rest. A large portion of our civil expenditures provide for lawyers, judges and police. Some will murder their own unborn babies. Others will do the same immediately after birth (so-called crib death???). They tend to believe in superstitions and religions that are extremely destructive in some cases and counter productive in others. They build huge monuments to themselves. They teach peace and wage war (Moslems, Nazis, etc.).

Even the Christian church once waged war, tortured unbelievers and took slaves. Both sexes waste a sizable portion of their time and assets in the hope of enticing illicit sex. Abortion, lipstick, and condoms are all big businesses. The most advertised medications on television are aphrodisiacs. The modern human raises its young in schools that teach emancipation from personal discipline and relieves them from responsibility by excusing their actions. Then we provide television for their recreation loaded with every imaginable social ill for entertainment. The parents then abandon the child except for transportation between the school and the television sets.

This creature is hardly the design of a vast and superior intelligence - unless, of course, one should believe that the construction of His design is still in progress using a process which we call evolution.

Source

Mod Edit: No Quote/Plagiarism – Please Review This Link.

An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An Atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth for all men together to enjoy.

An Atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction, and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and enjoy it.

An Atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.

He seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god.

An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church.

An Atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An

Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man.

He wants an ethical way of life. He believes that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter.

He believes that we are our brother's keepers; and are keepers of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now.

One of many sources...


Mod Edit: No Quote/Plagiarism – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 11-3-2008 by Gemwolf]

reply to post by marg6043


Thanks. I like your views and you're doing a good thing.

reply to post by kemo_d7


All you just did was establish the fallen nature of man due to original sin. Gods design was derailed by man disobedience. That is the source of all the entropy.
www.abovetopsecret.com...