"Poor people don't pay taxes"

reply to post by bakednutz

Do you really think that it is cool to mooch off of all us hard working Americans? You are disabled by laziness? Is that suppose to be funny?

I was being satirical actually. I come from a hard-working family, that has been "mooched" off of for a long time. So no, I don't think it's cool. I have the advantage of coming from a hard-working family though. What about the people who were born into welfare, and really don't know the difference? Who don't know how to lead a real life? They just deserve to die when they turn eighteen, since their parents didn't teach them anything and neither did a failed educational system?

Do you think all of those million aires got where they are today by putting into practice the same attitude you have?

There are plenty of people who work hard ever day of their lives, and even drop dead on the job like my great-grandfather did, but never get rich. I think most millionaires today got there by screwing people over.

If there are millions of illegals in this country that can find jobs and make a decent living, you can to.

Don't even go there with me. I can't get a job at McDonald's because of all the illegals. I lost a landscaping job to illegals, so my boss wouldn't have to pay for insurance. He even paid them more per hour than he did me because he got around paying the state when he hired illegals.

If anything, it is your attitude and outlook on life that is keeping you down. No more self pitty.

The only thing keeping me down is the lack of available employment, and the lack of employment that pays a living wage.





[edit on 3/3/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by jackinthebox


As far as the illegals taking your job, you should report the employer. I am not an advocate of illegals being in this country, but if they can find jobs I just dont see why you cannot. I dont believe they took them all and there are none left either.

If you want to get a job that pays a living wage why dont you get a college education? Or do you have one? Financial aid is available to anyone especially if you have no job or money. You could get tons of grants and beable to shack up in a college dorm room while you complete your education. When your done you just might have something to offer this world that the illegals do not.

reply to post by bakednutz

As far as the illegals taking your job, you should report the employer. I am not an advocate of illegals being in this country, but if they can find jobs I just dont see why you cannot. I dont believe they took them all and there are none left either.

You must have missed what I just said. They find jobs by taking them away from citizens. I cannot find a job, because the illegal has it now. A business owner knows that if they hire a citizen, the citizen will expect their employer to follow labor laws, and to pay the necessary fees to the government. If a boss pays his employee $10 an hour, it actually costs him $20 an hour for that employee, unless he hires an illegal. So, the employer will actually pay an illegal more per hour, to get out of paying overtime, insurance, and the standard fees asessed to the employer by the government.

As far as reporting goes...Are you kidding me? Do you honestly belive anyone will listen? The government doesn't care, in case you missed the memo. That's why the illegals are here in the first place. Even if someone did actually listen, it wouldn't do any good. The landscaper I worked for actually changes the name of his company every few years, because of that, and a few lawsuits he's had. And do you honestly think the McDonald's corporation views me as a threat? Worst case for them, they pay some little fine. Best case for me, I waste my time. Still doesn't get me a job.

If you want to get a job that pays a living wage why dont you get a college education? Or do you have one? Financial aid is available to anyone especially if you have no job or money. You could get tons of grants and beable to shack up in a college dorm room while you complete your education. When your done you just might have something to offer this world that the illegals do not.

I went to college for criminal justice. There is not enough financial aid to pay for housing, only the education itself. Unless you take out loans, which I refuse to take, if I could even get them with a bankruptcy. As I stated above, I was approved for job-training dollars, pending stable housing.

If there is obviously nothing there for you, no work to be had, and you are homeless,, why not go somewhere else? I mean, you have nothing holding you there, there are tons of jobs here in Louisiana. Go to the nearest Truck Stop and start hitching your way here. What have u got to lose?

[edit on 3-3-2008 by theQuest]

reply to post by jackinthebox


If the employer had lawsuits pending and he was changing the name of his business every few years, it is obvious to me that some one reported him and that someone listened and took the time to file a lawsuit. You should do the same. It does not hurt to try.


And if all you need is stable housing to get these training dollars which I assume will get you a decent job. It would make sense to anyone to take out the loan, get the housing, and get the job. Whats a little debt if you will have a livable wage and housing?

Originally posted by space cadet
Can you then explain how a person who makes 280.00 per week, has 42.00 per week taken from their check for federal tax, files taxes and still owes around 100.00 to the irs is not paying their taxes? Do people think that because the poor pay less that they don't pay at all? It is proportionate to their income and status, but they DO pay. That computes to 2184.00 of their AGI that they will never see again. A person making only 280.00 pre tax dollars a week could use a break.

That person who has zero deductions pays $468 total in fed taxes. This is about 3 1/2%, and this is the worst case scenario.

I see you also picked a number to put this person out of food stamp range by 13 dollars per month which would be $1944 per year in stamps, so I would suggest he make $13 less per month to gain $162 per month that would offset both the $13 and the $468 in taxes and still get over $1000 extra from the government.

I also counted 66 countries where he would pay more in taxes than he would in the US.

So in the end one can say the OPs post is statistically correct under worst case scenarios, but is 3.5% truely unfair when you suggest it is proportionate to others who would under the same situation pay as high as 35%?

If I make 150k per year why should I pay more in tax percent, or even taxes? Do I get more from the government with my 30 times more payment? Or are we a country that judges a person as being bad because they make more money and so we need to punish them with more tax cost even though they get the same or even less benefits than the person who pays $468 in taxes.







[edit on 3-3-2008 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
You must have missed what I just said. They find jobs by taking them away from citizens. I cannot find a job, because the illegal has it now. A business owner knows that if they hire a citizen, the citizen will expect their employer to follow labor laws, and to pay the necessary fees to the government. If a boss pays his employee $10 an hour, it actually costs him $20 an hour for that employee, unless he hires an illegal. So, the employer will actually pay an illegal more per hour, to get out of paying overtime, insurance, and the standard fees asessed to the employer by the government.

Whould you really want to work for a person who does this? I would bet he would rip you off any chance he got. Also, what skills are these illegals taking away from Americans? Very few are highly skilled jobs and even fewer are educated jobs.

At some point a person needs to either gain new/better skills/education and move to where jobs are.

I am retiring from the military in a few months and I live right now in Texas, and I would love to continue to live here, but the company that offered me the best package is in Oregon, and so I'm moving to Oregon. If I stay I might get offered 1/2 what I'll be making in Oregon.


[edit on 3-3-2008 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by Xtrozero

Whould you really want to work for a person who does this? I would bet he would rip you off any chance he got.

Name a company that wouldn't.

Also, what skills are these illegals taking away from Americans? Very few are highly skilled jobs and even fewer are educated jobs.

I'm not sure I understand the first question. Illegals aren't taking skills away, they're taking jobs away.

So you're saying that in order to survive now as a citizen, I must be highly skilled and educated to make way for the illegals? At the same time our public education system is in the toilet?

At some point a person needs to either gain new/better skills/education and move to where jobs are.

There are plenty of people who would love to continue their education, but cannot for various reasons. It's a catch-22. You can't get a descent job without the education, but you can't afford to get the education because you have no job or a very low paying one. I know there are grants that will pay for the education itself, but one needs to survive while they are learning. You can't eat textbooks.

In my case, I couldn't go to school because I was working all the time to keep a roof over my head. Now that I don't have a roof over my head, I don't qualify for aid.

For those of you who are so critical of poor people, you should realize one thing. YOU'RE NEXT! The middle class is eroding from the bottom up. And it won't mean a hill of beans to the elite, that you stood up against the poor, now that you are poor too. I watched it happen to my family. I have bankers, and cops, and soldiers, and international business attorneys, and politicians, etc. in my family. One by one they have had the rug pulled out from under them. They were the ones who chided the people who were on welfare, and poked fun at their plight. Now the joke's on them. But it's not funny at all.

Do you think you're safe? No one is safe. People in the roaring 20's thought they were safe too. Making a few hundred-thousand a year doesn't mean a thing. Look at all the airline pilots a few years ago. They had made good money all their lives, and lost their shirts just when they should have been getting ready to retire. Literally, they were losing their homes, and suddenly realizing that for all their hard work, they would never be able to retire now.

The check is in the mail folks. And your number is on it.

(Pay particular attention to this video from about 2:30. History repeats itself.)







[edit on 3/4/0808 by jackinthebox]

[edit on 3/4/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
Name a company that wouldn't.

The majority don't...

So you're saying that in order to survive now as a citizen, I must be highly skilled and educated to make way for the illegals? At the same time our public education system is in the toilet?

What you need to be is an asset to a company. If all you can do your whole life is compete at a low skill level that equals to low pay and competition from illegals then it is your own fault.

In my case, I couldn't go to school because I was working all the time to keep a roof over my head. Now that I don't have a roof over my head, I don't qualify for aid.

If there is a will there is a way my friend. Hell, join the Air Force and get free education up through PhD if you want. Find a roommate or two to lower your living cost and look for a job that would develop into a trade skill such as welding, plumbing, electrical work, sales etc.

The worst case scenario is a single parent and if you’re not in that boat you can do anything you want.

reply to post by Xtrozero

So in the end one can say the OPs post is statistically correct under worst case scenarios, but is 3.5% truely unfair when you suggest it is proportionate to others who would under the same situation pay as high as 35%?

Thank you for your honorable concession, as minimized as it might be.

Someone who is paying 35% is NOT in the same position. Someone who is paying 35% in taxes is only paying 15% of their income to live in the same standard as the person who pays 100% of their income, after taxes, just to survive. The person who pays 35% taxes is in no danger of starving, or going without medical treatment.

reply to post by Xtrozero

The majority don't...

Are you honestly trying to argue that the majority of American companies are on the up and up, and are looking out for the interests of their employees? I have never worked for a company that wouldn't screw over their employee to maximize profits. Hell, my brother was in the Army and they screwed him over.

What you need to be is an asset to a company.

An asset to a company that's going to fold in a few years, and I'll be out looking for another burger job again? I have been a "company asset" several times.

If all you can do your whole life is compete at a low skill level that equals to low pay and competition from illegals then it is your own fault.

The backbone of this country was once labor jobs. There was a time when you could make a career out of working at a supermarket as long as you put in your time. No more.

Competition from illegals is my fault?!!!! Someone else breaking the law is my fault? The government not enforcing the law is my fault? I'll tell you what then, it's your fault that deli clerks get shot for a few hundred bucks, and that soccer-moms get carjacked.

Hell, join the Air Force and get free education up through PhD if you want.

Too old now. Couldn't get into the Navy out of high-school because of some problems I had when I was born.

Find a roommate or two to lower your living cost and look for a job that would develop into a trade skill such as welding, plumbing, electrical work, sales etc.

I've been the roomate route several times. That route led me back to homeless once again.

I'm looking for any job at the moment. Hell, my friends in trade unions can't find work now.












[edit on 3/4/0808 by jackinthebox]

I'm just going too state right now.

And this is fact, wether or not it's politically correct.

We spend 40-80 B I L L I O N dollars on make the newest best airfighters.
We spend a grip of cash on fighting crime on the streets.
We spend a grip of cash fighting off drugs.
We spend a grip of cash illegalizing MARIJUANA while the government could legalize it, make newspaper out of it, stop cutting down trees in south america, and even use it as a pharmecutical refined medicine and it'd cut out a whole BUNCH of costs.
We spend a grip of cash doing a bunch of more stupid stuff too.

We as in our government, or the ones who don't care about us regardless of how rich you are.

Now as being homeless.......

I went too Social Services and got nothing but food stamps, and that was it. I told them I SLEEP ON THE BEACH IN THE FREEZEING COLD, GIVE ME ANY CHANCE TO PREVAIL AND DO GOOD AND I WILL USE IT TOO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY.

Nothing. Nope, you're a single 17 year old KID you can do it on your own buddy, go ahead, go attack the world hands on and get a job at Carls Jr. like I did and try too survive.

If you don't know what it's like too be poor, then don't even try to say we don't pay taxes because it costs us more pain and stress then your rich mindstates could ever BEGIN to fathom.

The fact is, the government spending all this money on bullock could spend their money on housing facilities for those who don't want too be homeless, or in poverty, and we don't, instead we have the homeless increasing the crime rate and murdering because of how insane homelessness can make someone.

Bite on that hook.

[edit on 4-3-2008 by Prophet-Ezekiel]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by bakednutz
[
Don't even go there with me. I can't get a job at McDonald's because of all the illegals. I lost a landscaping job to illegals, so my boss wouldn't have to pay for insurance. He even paid them more per hour than he did me because he got around paying the state when he hired illegals.

The only thing keeping me down is the lack of available employment, and the lack of employment that pays a living wage.

[edit on 3/3/0808 by jackinthebox]

Since you declined to respond to the question, I will ask it again: If you have nothing there for you, and you claim there are no jobs to be had, and obviously no family (or any decent ones that will help you out), WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO STAY THERE? Why not just move on to other places that do have jobs available? There are jobs here in Louisiana to be had. My wife works in the Social Services system, and she tries to give jobs away every day to these leeches in the Louisiana system, but they always seem to have some sort of excuse why not to take them. You say you are an educated man, with a college degree, the majority of us would have already moved on to where we could find work. It's not like you can say you have no place to live if you move, you have already told us you have no place to live now, so what is keeping you there?

reply to post by theQuest


I'm not disputing to you about this persons self testified problems, but I would like you to accept this.

Why don't you read my post, above, and respond to a reason why the government doesn't house people for the homeless.....


I was homeless once.
I can't get a job here in Grants Pass, Oregon, Because the economy is crap.

There should be more ways for individuals to accel than what the USA presents us.

Originally posted by Prophet-Ezekiel
reply to post by theQuest

 

I'm not disputing to you about this persons self testified problems, but I would like you to accept this.

Why don't you read my post, above, and respond to a reason why the government doesn't house people for the homeless.....


I was homeless once.
I can't get a job here in Grants Pass, Oregon, Because the economy is crap.

There should be more ways for individuals to accel than what the USA presents us.

Im sure in every state it is different, however here Louisiana does provide shelter for the homeless. As I stated before, my wife works in the Social Services field here. They provide housing for the homeless, beginning in Care Houses and moving most of them into Section 8 housing, which costs them nothing. And they find them gainful employment, as well as FREE healthcare and education. Many, many people do use this as a means to get back on their feet and get a new start on life. However, many others accept the free housing, food assistance and healthcare, but decline to accept the jobs lined up for them or the free education offered to them. These are the ones I refer to as the "leeches". They have no intentions of ever working, they simply want a free ride. For the ones that are on the streets here, truly homeless, it is not because they are not provided assistance, it is because they dont want to follow the strict "no Drugs or Alcohol" rules that come along with this assistance.
I understand what you are saying about no work there, but, if there are no jobs to be had in Oregon, why do you stay there? The job market may be terrible there, but in other areas there are plenty of jobs to be had. Move to where the jobs are, and start over.

reply to post by theQuest


If LA is so great at housing the homeless, then why are all those people displaced by Katrina sleeping under bridges, in parks, and just about anywhere they can squat? A lot of them are homeowners who lost everything. The insurance companies (when they had insurance) ripped them off to avoid paying.

I think you gloss over a lot of problems to espouse your anti-welfare attitudes.

Arrogance is a bad thing, my friend, and may eventually bring you to a situation that you point to in others with scorn.

Originally posted by theQuest
reply to post by jackinthebox

 

Most members of my family are hard working, responsible individuals who make a nice living for themselves and put back money for the future. Then, like everyone else here, there are relatives who don't work, or don't manage their money right, and are always broke, or are on Welfare or Gov assistance programs, etc. etc. Should I be responsible for them?

Yes. You should.
Part of the problem with Western Society is that very attitude. " I made it, and the fact that you didn't must mean you are lazy and irresponsible"

Whatever happened to being responsible for your neighbor and relations?

. I agree there should be help for these people, but there are millions who simply do not want to help themselves because they know the Gov will provide for them.

That is very far from the truth. The government will help them how, exactly? It is an urban myth that welfare recipients are collecting benefits whilst driving around a new SUV.

I live in one of the worst states of poverty in the US, I believe we are second only to Mississippi, and I can tell you from experience that most poor people are poor for a reason, and they have themselves to blame for it.

I have lived in three main places in my life. USA, Switzerland and UK. When in the USA I actually did live in the poorest state in the Union - the beauitful state of Mississippi. The poverty I saw there was the soul wrenching kind which afflicts generations of families. Who is to blame?

Western culture which values "home ownership" and "easy credit". Huge debt by the time you're 25 because you have had ingrained in you that you MUST go to college to be successfull, going to college often means mountains of debt, especially in the US.

Why is there so little compassion in the world today?

Originally posted by AWingAndASigh
reply to post by theQuest

 

If LA is so great at housing the homeless, then why are all those people displaced by Katrina sleeping under bridges, in parks, and just about anywhere they can squat? A lot of them are homeowners who lost everything. The insurance companies (when they had insurance) ripped them off to avoid paying.

I think you gloss over a lot of problems to espouse your anti-welfare attitudes.

Arrogance is a bad thing, my friend, and may eventually bring you to a situation that you point to in others with scorn.

Please, come down here and show me where people who have asked for help are sleeping under bridges and are homeless. From what the mainstream media will have you to believe, the state of Louisiana is just loaded with homeless people, "squatting under bridges and in parks" like you say. Well, how come we in Louisiana don't see these people? The ones we see are the usuals who wont leave the drugs and alcohol alone long enough to get the hel being offered. Yes, there were thousands of displaced individuals after Katrina, and it did take some time to get them all housing. People are now buying FEMA trailers cheap all through the state, do you know why? Because the majority of the displaced residents have been found new places to live.
Arrogance may be a bad thing, but Ignorance is even worse, and that is what you are spouting, because you know nothing of the situation in Louisiana except what is being fed to you by mainstream media.

Originally posted by Merigold

Originally posted by theQuest
reply to post by jackinthebox

 

Then, like everyone else here, there are relatives who don't work, or don't manage their money right, and are always broke, or are on Welfare or Gov assistance programs, etc. etc. Should I be responsible for them?

Yes. You should.
Part of the problem with Western Society is that very attitude. " I made it, and the fact that you didn't must mean you are lazy and irresponsible"

Whatever happened to being responsible for your neighbor and relations?


Why should I be responsible for those who refuse to help themselves?

. I agree there should be help for these people, but there are millions who simply do not want to help themselves because they know the Gov will provide for them.

That is very far from the truth. The government will help them how, exactly? It is an urban myth that welfare recipients are collecting benefits whilst driving around a new SUV.

The Gov helps them by giving them a free check and healthcare. And if you believe these people aren't driving Cadillacs, come to my area, and I will open your eyes for you.

I live in one of the worst states of poverty in the US, I believe we are second only to Mississippi, and I can tell you from experience that most poor people are poor for a reason, and they have themselves to blame for it.

I have lived in three main places in my life. USA, Switzerland and UK. When in the USA I actually did live in the poorest state in the Union - the beauitful state of Mississippi. The poverty I saw there was the soul wrenching kind which afflicts generations of families. Who is to blame?

Western culture which values "home ownership" and "easy credit". Huge debt by the time you're 25 because you have had ingrained in you that you MUST go to college to be successfull, going to college often means mountains of debt, especially in the US.

Why is there so little compassion in the world today?

Because people are tired of working to support those who refuse to.

[edit on 4-3-2008 by theQuest]

[edit on 4-3-2008 by theQuest]