Serb Tanks moving into position on Kosovo border

reply to post by maloy



Brings a damn tear to my eye...now that is more like it.

reply to post by maloy


I have to say, this is quite an impressive and I feel accurate post.

Serbia's most effective means of countering Kosovo's independence would be to use the same tactics and retake the country through the same means as it was lost.

Originally posted by Unit541
So lets see, could a SHTF situation in Kosovo serve as a perceived "distraction" enough to prompt Iran and Syria to take action against Israel?

Because the whole world is watching Kosovo, and we cannot possibly pay attention to more then one event simultaneously right? I bet you can sneak in a couple of nuclear strikes against Tehran and Damascus right now and no one will notice.

Seriously how do Iran/Syria/Israel relate to this? I am not even asking why Iran and Syria would be forming an alliance, or how and why they would attack Israel.

Originally posted by Unit541
Would this not serve as "justification" for immediate "retaliation" by Israel

It would certainly serve as a justification for all the absurd theories tied together by thin strings.

Kosovo idependence equals Israel's retaliatory alternatives how exactly?

Originally posted by Unit541
Russia has made it clear, US military involvement in Kosovo will be met by severe consequences.

Anytime some politicians says "severe consequences" someone somewhere will surely use it as a reason to draft another fantasy involving Alliens, Jews, evil Muslims, and World War denominations.

Originally posted by Unit541
and you might just end up with "justification" for the world war (or pension plan, depending on your perspective).

Pension plans is more like it.

I want to see 401(K) get introduced in Russia and Serbia. It really is a better alternative to defined benefit pension plans - because it gives corporations that much of an edge over international competitors and forces people to plan for their own future. Tax subsidies is what keeps the capitalist world spinning after all - tax subsidies could solve all the problems in the world.

[edit on 22-2-2008 by maloy]

Originally posted by US Monitor
Serbia's most effective means of countering Kosovo's independence would be to use the same tactics and retake the country through the same means as it was lost.

As I pointed out however, Serbian guerillas in Kosovo would get overwhelmed. If a Serbian insurgency occurs, NATO will no doubt reinforce the borders - and that would not be too difficult given the small size of the region in question. Without Serbia's help, Serbian elements in Kosovo would be choked off. And then there is no predicting how the new Kosovo army would react. They could use it as an excuse to butcher the Serbs in Kosovo, while US and EU turn the other way. It happened in 2000-2005, and could happen again.

Border control is the whole issue with insurgencies. That is how Chechens were able to continue fighting with Russia for years, and how Al-Quida is channeling arms and fighters throughout Middle East, and how Hamas and hezbolah are continuosly being resupplied by outside entities. NATO clearly understood this, and that is why their focus from the onstart of independence in Kosovo was to secure the borders. If they can lock down the borders, they pretty much leave the Kosovo Serbs powerless.

[edit on 22-2-2008 by maloy]

reply to post by Xtrozero


The genius in what George W. Bush has done is that he does not need to declare himself "Dictator" because he already is dictator through NSPD-51 and other Executive Orders. He presents himself as an utter idiot but it is a good cover for plausible deniability if the gradual coup d'etat that began in the 20th century should suddenly go bung.

He has given himself a far more 'homey' name than 'Dictator' by calling himself "the Decider" which whilst sounding both grandiose and ridiculous simultaneously it does aptly describe the situation where the Congress and Courts cave to him and his demands time after time.

There is just enough veneer of the former Republic to lull most US citizens into thinking that the Constitution is still in force. The Decider has made it clear that the Constitution is nothing more to him than an *expletive deleted* piece of paper.

A battle in the Balkans because of his recognition of an indepented Albanian Kosova may in the end be regarded as a Machiavellian stroke of genius if it can so pre-occupy the Russians that he can successfully launch his war against Iran with limited Russian engagement.

World War III began with the strikes on 11 September 2001. No matter who tells the history in the future, 9/11 will be the equivalent of the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand with this declaration recognising Kosova as another echo of the same so as to propel the world into more and more warfare.

Originally posted by maloy

Because the whole world is watching Kosovo, and we cannot possibly pay attention to more then one event simultaneously right? I bet you can sneak in a couple of nuclear strikes against Tehran and Damascus right now and no one will notice.

Seriously how do Iran/Syria/Israel relate to this? I am not even asking why Iran and Syria would be forming an alliance, or how and why they would attack Israel.

I always enjoy your posts and analyses, but I think on this one you are taking too short-sighted a view. If one posits that George W. Bush is a total idiot along with his E.U. counterparts, then Kosovo/Kosova could be seen a stumbling and fumbling toward conflict. But I do not believe this is the case. At various times US Presidents like other leaders about the globe have entered into attacks, battles, and wars for purposes quite contrary to that sold to the general public.

Were there to be another all out war in the Balkans it would provide a certain amount of "cover" for other actions to be taken by many parties.

Most of us simply encounter these events as they unfold in seemingly linear fashion. We are not privileged with the long-term planning of the groups who are the dreamers of war and the architects of mayhem. We see one step, but their plans are six or seven steps down the road.

It is certain that Syria is looking for a window to attack Israel, but they are far more patient than I would have imagined. Should the USA become involved through NATO in an expanded war in the Balkans, together with its occupation forces in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the Bush/Cheney government's desire to invade Iran, it is not to difficult to see how events in the Balkans could relate to events in Israel, Syria, and the P.A.

[edit on 22/2/08 by Pellevoisin]

reply to post by Pellevoisin



I think you took it man!!! KO Maloy sorry bud he is right!

The goal is to make us "not free" and quick a series of catastrophic conflicts could convince many that whatever atrociac measures bush emplements to keep us safe are infact legiet

I just want my #ing country back free and clear who is with me on that


[edit on 22-2-2008 by Chicagofreedomfighter]

Maloy your scenarios are very accurate.

The lock down of the borders will convince the Serb minority to integrate in the new State.
Realistically the final resolution to the conflicts in the Balkans is that they all become part of the EU. That way as time will go on the borders will not matter much anymore.
My understanding is that speed up of the process was in fact promised to the Serbs in exchange to Kosovo's independence, so I really think at one point they will put things in balance and realize the first serves them more.

What I think will follow is a stronger economical Serbia which will positively affect the rest of the Balkans ... until as I said everyone becomes part of the EU.

The scenarios are useless and speculative.

The facts are not.

The FACT is that if you say you want peace and stability, you DON'T encourage something that will bring violence and instability.

It's common practice to think George Bush's IQ ranks somewhere around dog # and is about as high as the number of Constitutional freedoms we still have left. This makes it quite easy to assume that the support of Kosovo was simply a bad policy decision.

I can promise you, though - they aren't that stupid.

YOU DON'T SUPPORT PEACE AND STABILITY WHILE SUPPORTING AN ACT THAT WILL INCREASE VIOLENCE AND INSTABILITY!

Sitting here on ATS, we can figure that out. Surely they can and have, and it was done for a reason.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


Dude ...
Do you have any clue of what u're talking about , and the (historical) reasons affecting US decisions on the matter.
This has nothing to do with Bush or with any particular detail for that matter.
It was president Wilson who opposed the breakup in pieces of ethnic Albania in the first place. It has been part of the US policy since God knows when, helping the Albanian factor in the region. The reasons we can discuss elsewhere. It was President Clinton the one that started all this. Do you have anything against his IQ as well ?
And that is the exact reason any US president is cheered in Albania way more than he would every dream of being cheered in the US.
I do understand your worries about internal and external US policies but believe me if you ever want to be proud of external US policies I ensure you can be proud of them in the Balkans.

for any of you bible people out there, in revelations it says in the end days there will be rumors of wars

it doesnt state actual wars, so im wondering if all this is just fear mongering and bullying to get people in line somehow for a bigger picture or something to happen

i honestly dont think anything will come of this yet but dominoes are being placed and getting ready to knock down and watch em all fall

escalating everyday, enjoy your lives while you can people

Originally posted by Rogers
Do you have anything against his IQ as well ?

Do you know why I said "they're not that stupid"?

It seems you don't. It seems you're confused as to what I am saying. If you are confused, perhaps you shouldn't confront what I'm saying until you fully understand it.

In the simplest possible terms, I'm saying he isn't that stupid.

Originally posted by Rogers
but believe me if you ever want to be proud of external US policies I ensure you can be proud of them in the Balkans.

I ensure you I can't.

Lack of research and temptation to be a flag waving ignorant American are the only reasons why any one would ever be proud of any foreign policy of the United States.

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
If one posits that George W. Bush is a total idiot along with his E.U. counterparts, then Kosovo/Kosova could be seen a stumbling and fumbling toward conflict.

I don't know about Bush's mental capacity, but he is not directly responsible for what we see happening here. Sure he may be at the helm, but his authority is far from absolute. He does not make every single decision for the US. Remember - it was Clinton who start the NATO campaign against Serbia. And most of all - it is the US foreign policy and the many interest groups that control it, that are responsible for much of what we see today.

And I do view the events in Kosovo as a problem - just not a World War spark type of problem. The issue is that it will inspire countless other separatists around the world.

And as I said - it really doesn't look like anything major will come from Kosovo, besides the forementioned precedent. Look at what is happening - Serbian government is sitting still and trying to control its own population, and Russia is resorting to rallying the UN against the recognition but already stated that it will not intervene militarily. All sides are for the most part standing down. Before Kosovo declared independence I actually predicted more unrest resulting from it than what we see now. In a matter of weeks you will see Kosovo disappear from the news.

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
Were there to be another all out war in the Balkans it would provide a certain amount of "cover" for other actions to be taken by many parties.

The problem is that no party to the Kosovo affair wants war, except maybe for Serbian radicals - but they have been defeated in the election. So no war = no "cover". And even if there was a war - how would that cover other actions? And what actions are you talking about? Iran and Syria are virtually paralyzed with US deciphering their every move - they won't dare do anything stupid at this point. Israel has enough problems to deal with at home, and the last thing it needs is to attack Iran or Syria. And the US is all tied up - and it has elections to worry about.

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
Most of us simply encounter these events as they unfold in seemingly linear fashion. We are not privileged with the long-term planning of the groups who are the dreamers of war and the architects of mayhem. We see one step, but their plans are six or seven steps down the road.

Perhaps, but again - how do you see Kosovo leading to anything? It is not affiliated in any way with any Middle Eastern countries or conflicts in question. And we have already seen Russia stand down.

I myself tie together the War on Terror and many events that take place with NATO/US involvement around Russia. But Kosovo is really another issue. Sure it fits into the grand scheme of things as far as the US foreign policy goes, but it will take more than this engineer another war in the Middle East - which might not even be what US is trying to do at all.

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
It is certain that Syria is looking for a window to attack Israel, but they are far more patient than I would have imagined.

Syria has some unfinished business to settle, specifically the Golan Heights. But it risks a great deal if it attacks Israel - and given the precedent wars with Israel I would say Syria would not be quick to make another dumb mistake. As it stands now, it will not win a war against Israel, if only because the US would gladly intervene on Israel's behalf.

See - todays politics are far too complex to just start a war. There are too many consideration and consequences. Bush pulled off the invasion of Iraq - kudos to him. But US has nowhere to go at this point. Going ahead with Kosovo's independence will not help the US elsewhere, but it sure can hurt it and its allies.

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
Should the USA become involved through NATO in an expanded war in the Balkans

If a war does occur, it will not be any larger that the NATO operation in 1999. Serbia will not be able to stand against NATO. And Russia's non-military-interference stance does not look like it will change. Perhaps there is a reason why Russia is standing down - and perhaps that reason has to do with what US wants to start out of the Balkans. But speculation on that at this point is unfounded.

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
together with its occupation forces in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the Bush/Cheney government's desire to invade Iran, it is not to difficult to see how events in the Balkans could relate to events in Israel, Syria, and the P.A.

Yeah I get it - US and Company are keeping themselves busy. Maybe they have some grand plans for us all, but any mention of war with Iran and Syria is stretching it. I personally think that the US is currently more interested in the Caspian Sea region - Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, and Turkmenistan. That is where all the "unclaimed" resources are.

But regardless, there is just too little to connect Kosovo with the rest of US games. It is unclear why the US is so interest in having an independent Kosovo, but I think it has more to do with taking a stab at Russia.

Ah, what Kosovo Police said is sensationalistic if they indeed said that. Serbian tanks are mostly in Southern Serbia in Preshevo valley near administrative line with Kosovo and this well knows fact.

Originally posted by realmatrix
Can someone explain why the USA should be concerned with Kosovo and the Albanian problem? Perhaps our time would be better spent worrying bout the Palestinians, or bringing peace to darfur!

Because NATO did undeclared war against Yugoslavia 1999 led by USA, so now USA and their allies has to justify it by supporting UDI of Kosovo.

Originally posted by maloy
I would not trust that story as being 100% accurate at this point. The reports of Serbian tanks are unsubstantiated - and the only given source is Kosovo border police. Why aren't European news agencies reporting on this - isn't NATO controling those borders right now and thus they should be aware of what is going on?

That is mainly correct. KFOR and Military of Serbia have cooperation so both know major movements of force.

Originally posted by maloy
So far the Serbian military has not done anything - and most border-crossings are by volunteers.

Are you talking about what happened in Thursday? Nah, that were former reservists from 1999 (veterans). They crossed administrative line with Kosovo at Merdare some 500 of them and both UNMIK and Kosovo police run away. And they weren’t even armed.

Originally posted by maloy
Getting back to reality, right now I think there is reason to be concerned with stability of Serbia's government.

Government is stable .

Originally posted by maloy
The radical factions are using these events as an excuse to rouse up the people - that is what lead to the violent protests yesterday. There is a possibility of an attempt by the Serbian radicals to carry out a coup, and replace Tadic.

Serbian Radical Party doesn’t want to rule. They like to be opposition with almost zero responsibility.

Originally posted by maloy
That would likely lead to US cutting off all relations with Serbia, and Serbia making a last-ditch appeal to Russia for military assistance, before attempting to retake parts of Kosovo with full force.

The closest relation with Russia has Prime Minister Vojislav Koštunica and his party Democratic Party of Serbia has agreement of partnership with Едина Россија.

Originally posted by maloy
As I pointed out however, Serbian guerillas in Kosovo would get overwhelmed. If a Serbian insurgency occurs, NATO will no doubt reinforce the borders - and that would not be too difficult given the small size of the region in question. Without Serbia's help, Serbian elements in Kosovo would be choked off. And then there is no predicting how the new Kosovo army would react. They could use it as an excuse to butcher the Serbs in Kosovo, while US and EU turn the other way. It happened in 2000-2005, and could happen again.

Albanians don’t have right on their own army by Ahtisari plan [as I know]. Only army in Kosovo is KFOR.

Originally posted by maloy
Border control is the whole issue with insurgencies. That is how Chechens were able to continue fighting with Russia for years, and how Al-Quida is channeling arms and fighters throughout Middle East, and how Hamas and hezbolah are continuosly being resupplied by outside entities. NATO clearly understood this, and that is why their focus from the onstart of independence in Kosovo was to secure the borders. If they can lock down the borders, they pretty much leave the Kosovo Serbs powerless.

We’ll see that . So far administrative line posts were broken twice: in Monday and Thursday.
And trust me, Serbia won't tolerate close of administrative line by KFOR and UNMIK.

Tank spotted, exclusive photo




Groundhog Day WWI here we come...got nukes?

Russia Threatens With War, Serbs Loot Javno.hr, Croatia




[edit on 23-2-2008 by Regenmacher]

don`t forget the russian carrier sitting in the med - very available for operations

reply to post by realmatrix


Our troops don't run from any fight kid. Bush is probably looking for a way out of Kosovo cause he knows the Serbs are right this time and he don't want to be protecting Islamic terrorist at all but some in NATO do.

reply to post by Pellevoisin


Syria is scared to death of Israel. They will make Hesbola attack when Israel moves on Gaza in a large scale witch is coming very soon.

Originally posted by pluckynoonez
Wait, Bush said Kosovo's independence would bring peace to the region. I am confused.

People keep waiting for the Anti-Christ yet he has been leadign the US for the last 7 years. He heralds Christianity in word but his actions are directly contrary to the teachings of Christ.

There have been many evil murderous leaders through history but none who ride Christianity while at the same time acting in direct opposition of Christs words.

World war III appears to be well underway. Bush has the US so strung out right now that we cannot possibly provide stability to the world.