Serb Tanks moving into position on Kosovo border

reason for westeren community to have kosovo in there arms is that on te border of kosovoand albanie rich oil and gasfields are found...
you see its all about oil agan!...only this time the russians will also have claims on the recourses there...

name me 1 country where nato and the western world is not militairy involved if that place have no oil of gas fields..........

This definitely has the potential for War. IfSerbia attacksKosovo, You can bet Albania will get into the scrape on the side of Kosovo. This whole area has been unstable not just over the past 20 years. Previously, there were two wars, one in 1912, and the other in 1913, between several of the countries in the Balkan. Additionally, WWI started in the Balkans when Serbian nationalists assassinated Archduke Francis Ferdinand. Before that, the Ottoman Empire expanded into the Balkans. And before that, the Crusades headed to the Middle East through the Balkans. And the Roman Empire fought many campaign in this area. And, yet again, before that, the Greeks and the Turks fought several wars. So for nearly 3000 or so, there have been many wars and much bloodshed in this region. And if fighting breaks out now, there is no telling where it will lead to.

You meant Greeks and Persians. There is also the Illyrians and Greek wars. If Atlantis in sometime in the future is proven facts, instead of myth. Then you can add the Atlantian and Greek war. But right now it is only a myth.

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please read ABOUT ATS: Warnings for excessive quoting, and how to quote

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[edit on 23/2/08 by masqua]

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
The genius in what George W. Bush has done is that he does not need to declare himself "Dictator" because he already is dictator through NSPD-51 and other Executive Orders. He presents himself as an utter idiot but it is a good cover for plausible deniability if the gradual coup d'etat that began in the 20th century should suddenly go bung.

So what happens when he quietly leaves office?

If anyone failed here it is the Iraqi people who failed both themselves and the American people. Bush removed an incredibility evil dictator and family that represented a small minority of the population. The Iraqis had a great opportunity to become something better if they would only would together and let their form of democracy work. But as we have seen these last five plus years they haven’t and in that alone we have Bush’s big failure in not seeing that coming (that has cost the republican party dearly), and is the one big reason we should have never removed Saddam in the first place.

McCain will most likely be the next president as the Democrats pick Obama as their front runner, and he implodes like the democrats just seem to do. McCain is a very different man than Bush, so much so that they have always been on totally different sides of most arguments. I predict much of what you all see as infringement on our rights will dissolve away under McClain as he goes about reversing just about everything Bush has done. In many areas this will be good and in many areas this will be bad, but change is coming very soon. I just hope all the Bush haters/conspiracy believers what something to write about once he is out of office.

reply to post by realmatrix


Independent Kosova ( Kosovo)! Finally..Thank You USA..!

This is logigal step toward completing united and democratic Europe.
Yougoslavia is dead finally.
This would have occurred years ago if not for poisonous nationalism of Serbia and encouragement by Putin's Russia......
The democratic world knows the truth: after NATO - USA lead stoped brutal campagne of ethnic cleansing by Serbian Army...after over 300 000 dead, 40 000 raped women, over 35 000 kids up to 18 killed...ALL by Serbian Army and other barbarian forces...this is LONG OVERDUE....
Thank You USA, THank YOu the wesern civilization finally....
As for Albanians : Albanians are true westerners and the only true friends to USA in the Balkans.....describing Albanians as muslims and easterners it is well known...serbian propaganda...
As for Serbians: woke up and smell the reality, in this time and age I would be ashamed to be a serbian seeing all those barbaric acts against West...It is time for serbia's modernizers to step up and lead Serbia in the bright normal futur...for the sake of the Serbian People first ...I have faith that will happen soon and they will accept the reallity....Kosovo was never Serbian land.... it was ruled under serbia as colony....and it is over...so you my friends get over it...United Kingdom was claming American land for theirs until USA Declared Independance...it is free now as you may know....We love you USA, you saved our lives...and you saved my life literally so I owe my life to You...
We love west and USA and they know..
As for Serbian propaganda: it is over my neighbors....one Day we will be together in United Europe as free and equal friends...I hope you understand this we have....
Respect to USA and Progressive and peacefull world.....
Bili

[edit on 23-2-2008 by BiliUSA]

reply to post by Pellevoisin



There are a few elements that will influence all this with the US’s hard lesson in Iraq. That lesson is people will not change when given the opportunity if that change is based on 1000(s) year old hatreds. The EU/UN (world?) hates America right now, and so maybe the EU/UN should handle this issue over there without the US involvement in anyway.

Israel will not be attacked anytime soon. No matter what happens in Europe etc there is no change to the massive American military right there next to Syria and Iran. Airstrikes alone would devastate either county in a week and there is zero build up time needed since we have it all there already.

reply to post by Rogers


Don't you know that all the world's troubles were started by Bush? Also anything bad in the world is because of Bush has either caused it or because he ignores it.

It is just a misconception that all of this started long ago and in many cases long before America was America.

reply to post by BiliUSA



Wow, finally a perspective from the actual place and not all this arm chair involvement that most of you have with views warped by whatever slant of the situation you care to follow.

I see this reaction in Iraq all the time too, but it is never told outside the country for that would be bad press to think that non-extremist Muslims fear the day when America leaves their country.

So one Muslim shoots at me a 10,000 thank me...I can live with that...

By the way Bili your welcome

Originally posted by BiliUSA
This is logigal step toward completing united and democratic Europe.
Yougoslavia is dead finally.

Until the Albanians start trouble in Macedonia again. Then you will need to separate from Macedonia to be a united and democratic Europe. There are many many people in Europe who are still not satisfied, and won't be satisfied until they have independence. Your logic says that they too should all get independence.

Question - How many countries do you think can fit into Europe?
Answer - Hell of a lot more than there are now.

I propose going after Spain next. A separation of Basque and Catalonia will surely be a logical step toward completing united and democratic Europe.

Originally posted by BiliUSA
This would have occurred years ago if not for poisonous nationalism of Serbia and encouragement by Putin's Russia......

As opposed to poisonous nationalism of Albanians, ecouraged by Albania and Turkey? At times I think that all the warring factions in the Balkans deserve each other.

Originally posted by BiliUSA
The democratic world knows the truth

Because democratic world accepts what the government tells them is the truth? The truth in the "democratic world" is as veiled as it is in non-democratic states - only difference is that that many people in "democracies" think they know the truth, while people in totalitarian states know it's all propaganda.

Originally posted by BiliUSA
after NATO - USA lead stoped brutal campagne of ethnic cleansing by Serbian Army...after over 300 000 dead, 40 000 raped women, over 35 000 kids up to 18 killed

Common why not just say Serbs killed 5,000,000 people. Coming up with numbers not substantiated by concrete facts proves very little. The "fact" that we seem to have for this conflict have such a large range, that a consensus on who killed how many of who cannot be reached.

How many Serbs died for every Alabanian? Every side did the killing and the raping. There is no black and white, there are just fields of gray.

Originally posted by BiliUSA
Thank You USA, THank YOu the wesern civilization finally....

See what your relations with the US are like in 10 years, and then thank the US. In 10 years you might just as well be burning Americans flags and chanting anti-American slogans.

Originally posted by BiliUSA
As for Albanians : Albanians are true westerners and the only true friends to USA in the Balkans

Meanwhile the Croatians and Slovenians are crying in the corner - why, why is the US no longer their friend? Sentiments in the Balkans change about as often as US soldiers reload their rifle magazines. Albanians have enough problems in their own country to worry about Kosovo. They could not straighten out corruption and organized crime for decades.

And even now US hardly cares about Albanians - it never really did. US does not need Albanians; US needs a crumbled Serbia so it is easier for EU to absorb it. Albanians mistakenly see the actions of US as being humanitarian - but remember that every single country pursues its own goals above everything else.

Originally posted by BiliUSA
.....describing Albanians as muslims and easterners it is well known...serbian propaganda...

They may not be Easterners, but are Albanians not Muslims? Did Kosovo rebels not receive help and assitance from Al-Quida and Muslim terrorist factions?

Originally posted by BiliUSA
As for Serbians: woke up and smell the reality, in this time and age I would be ashamed to be a serbian seeing all those barbaric acts against West....

Reality is that life is not fair. Kosovo will learn this reality when its economy collapses and the country plunges into another conflict when Serbs try to separate. Depending on NATO's mood that day, it may help Albanians, or it may forget about them and move onto new and exciting opportunities.

As far as Serbs being barbaric, I can say the say about Albanians. But I won't, because such degradation will only lead to a pissing contest. It'll suffice to say that no one is perfect, and everyone has a barbarian deep inside him. Psychology studies have proven this time and again.

Originally posted by BiliUSA
It is time for serbia's modernizers to step up and lead Serbia in the bright normal futur...

It was time for Albanians in Kosovo to step up and forget everything and lead the region to a bright future back in early 1990's. But no - KLA and other factions instead resorted to guerilla warefare and terrorist attacks against civilians. It is easy to tell your enemy to forget and fogive after you punch him in the nose. But that is not how politics work. New Kosovo government will figure this out in no time.

Originally posted by BiliUSA
Kosovo was never Serbian land....

A few hundred years amount to never these days....

Originally posted by BiliUSA
United Kingdom was claming American land for theirs until USA Declared Independance

And both screwed the Native Americans, forgeting whose land it really is.

Originally posted by BiliUSA
it is free now as you may know....We love you USA, you saved our lives...and you saved my life literally so I owe my life to You...

Too bad they destroyed hundreds of lives in their bombing campaign against Serbia. Even managed to sneak a strike against the Chinese embassy.

Originally posted by BiliUSA
We love west and USA and they know..

Meanwhile 95% of Americans are more concerned about what they are going to eat for lunch, and only half knows where Albania and Kosovo is and what is going on there.

Originally posted by BiliUSA
As for Serbian propaganda: it is over my neighbors..

Damn right - it is time for Albanian propaganda. Again - there is no black and white.

Originally posted by BiliUSA
one Day we will be together in United Europe as free and equal friends...

And there will be no countries, no religions, no possessions, nothing to kill or die for.

Sounds like a Lennon song. Too bad realism prevails in 10 out of 10 instances.

This definitely an interesting development... Starred and flagged OP...

And Maloy... you seem very insightful, on this topic, I look forward to hearing more from you on this.... I will definitely be watching this story develop!!!!

The World is in serious times of stress, and to take situations like these lightly is... well... post-hallucinatory

[edit on 23-2-2008 by StoneGarden]

The "beef" between the two countries comes from a conflict from 1389- these people are too ignorant to realize that they have nothing to do with what happened in 1389. Its bad blood because of their ancestors. Their acting like barbaric animals. Kosovo is its own country now- good for them. The last thing we need is a lack of independence around the world. They want freedom and the serbs are just pissed off because they feel its their land. Who cares. If they attack Kosovo its only a matter of time before US and Russia conflict with each other. I would be ashamed to be a serbian if I was one. How can you respect a country like that?

And they burn U.S. flags like its our fault...

Have fun living in the middle ages Serbia

www.cnn.com...

people, you should know better. this is world war IV. get with the program!

reply to post by Chicagofreedomfighter


I just hope Europe, russia and US don´t react to an eventual invasion, I prefer 1 million kosovars killed than 100 million killed in europe russia and america...

Please not another world war beginning in that region for stupid reasons...

Just what Europe needs, a Muslim nation. 300 Christian churches burned to the ground in the past few years. Anybody see that on CNN? I didn't think so. Wonderful group of people we freed. I hope we butt out and the Euro's fight their own battles. Let them destroy each other, our national interests aren't at risk.

Start WW III? Lol, you're out of your minds, this will not start World War 3, all it will do is bring us back by about 10 years in that region. It's Bosnia all over again. It would be the biggest mistake ever made on behalf of the Serbs. We still have forces on the ground over there, and they are equipped to take on this exact situation.

For all intents and purposes we are already in a Third World War, it is simply the beginning stages, but nonetheless terrorists hold strength in multiple nations we will have to square off with eventually. Serbia makes no difference in the greater scheme of things, as they are relatively easy to deal with. Europe is NATO stomping grounds, so Serbia will be dealt with if they choose the wrong course of action.

In my humble opinion most American observers are missing some fundamental points here. The Balkans is truly close to the centre of Europe. It is not far from London, Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, Rome, or Athens when compared to American domestic distances. It is not some abstract place. It is an area familiar to millions of tourists, and many people in neighbouring countries have families there. It is thus extremely emotive, especially with the meeting of polarised cultures and religions, and all the history to boot.

What I am getting at is that trying to analyse things from a logical, military or political point of view as most do here is pretty much useless. Because there are so many interwoven threads and so many interested parties and because the areas are geographically so small and densly populated (compared to places like the US), the so called 'Butterfly Effect' is very prone to cause mischief.

Some of the worst wars and conflicts in history can trace their roots to seemingly trivial episodes... but also sometimes seemingly terminal situations can be worked out due to the oddities of human nature. Don't forget that basically what we have in the area is thousands of troops, from dozens of nations, and armed individuals with personal, religious, commercial, nationalistic, political, and international pressures on them... and they have their fingers on the triggers.

I just think that trying to guess what will happen here is like playing the lottery. It may ultimately boil down to someone drinking too much and feeling cocky!

reply to post by maloy


Beautifully said. Nothing to add to that really.

Originally posted by Christian Voice
I am truly confused. Kosovo is supposed to be roughly 90% Islamic. Serbia primarily Christian-Orthodox. We are supposedly at war against Islamic extremists right now. Why do we as a nation continue to aid these Islamic nations gain freedom. I'm not trying to turn this into a religious debate at all, but please when are we gonna finally but out? These Middle Eastern nations have fought each other for centuries. I say leave em alone, bring our men and women home and take care of our own problems right now. We are on the verge of depression, crime is at an all time high, and our weather patterns have greatly shifted and our country is hurting. We can't afford to continue aiding everyone else.

Whatever US intervention was orchestrated in the Balkans these last 2 decades, now appears to be an effort of creating a friendly Islamic "buffer" in that peninsula. The logic behind this move is Turkey. It is a strategic aid of US and also has a large portion of an islamic population.
Turkey itself STILL is not up to gear to be fully connected socially to Europe and the Balkan peninsula (which serve as the soft underbelly of Europe)
Turkey made some strategic allies (Albania) in the Balkans also, they are not all Islamics but they follow Turkey's decisions around to a great degree. They also have a greater plan to nearby territories across their borders. Partly inside Serbia, partly inside Greece. They seem to be happy with a future Kosovo independence since it serves their long term goals for a "greater state".
Turkey has also a greater plan in thinking of the Balkans as well. Several resources lay around its Europian borders (also in their eastern borders), for example in the Aegean sea and cross inside Greek territorial waters. By applying pressure through a partly satellite state as Albania might be, can gain enough leverage to press a future Greek goverment to partly dismiss its claims for oil in the Aegean eastern basin.
Turkey now serves a a large buffer state between US policy and Middle East Islamic populations. Turkey currently serves US interests and it can be aided to claim strategic and natural resources in the Balkans (Turkeys western and southwestern borders and also in its easter northeastern borders inside Iraq occupied by Kurds who frequently rebel against any Turkish intervention. Kurds are also allies with US). It is a win win situation for Turkey.
Although Turkey has a mind of its own. recently signed a large deal to buy Russian armaments probably in order to pressure US to cut a better deal to them, or speed up plans for aiding in acquiring natural resources outside its territory.
US gains benefits from this intervention because whoever controls Balkans has a good chance of controlling portions of the Europian policy in the future but also controls a contested hot zone against West, namely Italy and the Vatican, Germany, France, primarily Great Britain, the Russian Federation and the Middle East. Pretty much everybody and his dog!
Currently Serbia is a strong buffer for Russian interests that wont give up easily their claims, if ever.

Everybody has greater plans, in the Balkans thats why it is always a mess.

[edit on 23-2-2008 by spacebot]

[edit on 23-2-2008 by spacebot]

Who,says that Russia and Serbia have to do anything overt? I can see them going covert just have some Spetsnaz and Serbian spec ops units into Kosovo and go from there.

reply to post by mike dangerously


There are now large US bases in Kosovo. They would probably have better luck in going covert in Texas!
Take note that it is expected that a large deal of the illegal trade of anything that can be traded always flourishes in contested zones that everybody has a claim in.

[edit on 23-2-2008 by spacebot]