Zeitgeist The Movie helps the New World Order

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by dingleberry77

 

In my experience, calling yourself "spiritual" is an attempt for a religious person to make themselves seem / feel superior to other religious people. More "enlightened" and above the fray. Clued in to "deeper truths" or whatever... When there's absolutely no practical difference between the two.

[edit on 22-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

Actually when one is spiritual, they merely mean that they are seekers. Those who adhere to a religion are seekers too, but instead of searching for themselves, they let an institution tell them what to believe. That's the difference.

And about the first portion of Zeitgeist, it is actually on the whole largely correct in its claims.


Oh and I don't see why you all are hating on religions. Just because the modern western religions leave much to be desired does not mean all religions are "stupid" or whatever you want to call it. Buddhism, Hinduism, and actually all religions hide within their doctrines secret truths. For example, the trinity, which is replete in almost all religions, refers to the fabric of existence, which is three-fold: Void -> Spirit -> Matter. In essence, it means before anything manifests physically out of nothing, the spirit, or it's nonphysical nature comes first. An analogy for this is before you perform the action of picking up a book, you first form the concept of picking up the book within your mind (the nonphysical). The Spirit is akin to energy. Buddhism is basically Hinduism stripped down for export, and they both follow this same concept and the goal is to return one's self to the Void (Brahma) and this must be done by first returning to the spirit stage, which is usually sought after through meditation. The Christian trinity is based upon the same concept, but is skewed, because it really is a crappy religion that is basically the Gnostic beliefs redesigned and therefore losing much of its original esoteric meaning. Other ancient "cults" that hid deep esoteric knowledge include the Dionysian and Bacchic cults (which were pretty much same, just Roman and Greek versions), and their symbolism is still used today. Such as Wolverine, the ultimate Dionysian character. He can be a wise guardian/father figure, as he is to Rogue and Jubilee and such, but at the same time he can unleash uncontrollable fury. In fact his name can even be rearranged as "wine lover". Anyway, I'm rambling but I was just kind of offended by this hating on religions.

[edit on 22-2-2008 by italkyoulisten]

reply to post by italkyoulisten



I would say it's 50/50 on that one. Some are just smug jerks who just want to sound trendy. And the other half think there is more to the life then we can see or understand, but don't know exactly what "it" is.

reply to post by DarkMile77


actually the spiritual do know what "it" is. "It" is the force that makes everything work. "It" is consciousness. "It" is self. "It" is gravity. "It" is light energy. "It" is something that we both know and don't know. We can grasp "it" and know that "it" is there, but we do not understand "it", because "it" can only be grasped through logic and reasoning and not science. And "it" is what the spiritual seek to understand.

I personally think Zeitgeist is great, ok SOME facts are not 100% but are the religious books 100% fact?? no... it serves a purpose and it works for me

All I see is people who follow a book (bible) that is not 100% fact telling people not to listen to a movie that is not 100% fact, thats hypocritical in the mildest terms. And thats why large religious groups are a bad idea, if I let you follow something don't tell me what to follow, I would prefer to make up my own mind on where I come from and not follow another persons take on it. In my opinion Zeitgeist is as reliable as the Bible in terms of FACTS.


[edit on 22-2-2008 by II HAL II]

reply to post by italkyoulisten


Thats just your answer. And your answer in niter wrong, nor right. The reason I only gave two examples is because personally for me it would to hard to try and describe all the variation on what being a "spiritual" person is when the very definition depends on the individual.

I personally have strayed from the religion of my birth, but I still believe there is more to humanity than this flesh, but what that is I do not know.

I would also like to apologize for straying from the original post.

Reply to orginal OP.

I've thought same about the whole new age thing, but they're just toughts and suspiciouses.. Nevertheless it is good that you started this thread, let the discussion flow in all directions.

So I agree you with some degree, it might be so. For example, it would certainly be useful for powers that be to create a common world religion. So taking all the heroes of various religions, put them together and print a sticker top of it saying all those were manifestations of one same supernatural being - lets call it universal christ.

But then again, it could just be that it is not so. It can be that it has always been like this, that there was some specific model of superior being or even an idea, that was projected upon these characters, Jesus, Buddha, Osiris, Krishna and so forth. The reality is, if you study the texts of those ancient religions, you will find so much common in their teachings, for example what misters Buddha, Jesus and Krishna have said. Their teachings all have this common nominator. So unless NWO planned this centuries - no, thousands of years ago, I find it hard to believe. But that doesn't count out the possibility that powers that be are abusing this realization!

Since Zeitgeist - the spirit of time - was so poorly made (in a cinematic way - meaning the effects etc were somewhat crappy), I think it wasn't made by powers that be, or they would've made it more impressive.. Or maybe not

Anyway, while I disagree, OP starred and flagged.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
In my experience, calling yourself "spiritual" is an attempt for a religious person to make themselves seem / feel superior to other religious people. More "enlightened" and above the fray. Clued in to "deeper truths" or whatever... When there's absolutely no practical difference between the two.

While I couldn't agree more with your excellent contributions to this thread, I feel compelled to challenge this point. The practical difference between religion and spirituality boils down to a single word - dogma. Being 'spiritual' means you can pick up any book and draw from it if it speaks to you. It means you can live your life according to principles decided entirely by yourself. In short, it's a path of self-discovery. Religion on the other hand requires that you follow laws, traditions, conventions and morals created by an organisation. Thus religion leads to indoctrination and control whereas an undefined spirituality leads only to control of your own life. You are your own Priest, Pastor and Teacher.

Regarding the topic at hand...

To the OP: You claim that Zeitgeist is a fictional piece of disinformation. How do I know that this thread isn't a piece of disinformation itself? Of course, I have no real grounds to think this other than what my personal beliefs lead me to think.

So you see my point?
This whole subject boils down to bias and opinion. I can't 100% back up every claim made by Zeitgeist anymore than you can back up your suspicions of the NWO being anti-Christian. As a Christian, your viewpoint is predictable. Likewise, as a Pagan (for argument's sake - my belief is difficult to pin down to one label), my viewpoint regarding the assertions Zeitgeist makes are fairly predictable.

Having said that, let me add that I already knew that Christianity borrowed (or rather, stole) hugely from Paganism long before I saw Zeitgeist. Ever heard of Christmas (the tree, Santa Klaus)? Easter? Halloween (I believe the Church has even tried to put a Christian spin on this now)? Whether or not Zeitgeist is 100% accurate, its point is still very valid.

Originally posted by II HAL II
All I see is people who follow a book (bible) that is not 100% fact telling people not to listen to a movie that is not 100% fact, thats hypocritical in the mildest terms.

That's a good point. There are some who interpret religious scripts as literal, but there are also some who only interpret the Bible and attempt to study the lessons within it.

The information (sometimes veiled) in any 'religious' scripture urges people to seek Godhead, and not this head, that head, this object, that object, but to see the object behind everything.

While not every gesture towards 'God' is taken seriously by some people, personal realization is something that no organized religion or hypocritical reputation can equate with...

These ideas are not suggested or mentioned in movies like Zeitgeist. The philosophy is lost

[edit on 22-2-2008 by NewWorldOver]

Originally posted by Cythraul
Ever heard of Christmas (the tree, Santa Klaus)? Easter? Halloween (I believe the Church has even tried to put a Christian spin on this now)? Whether or not Zeitgeist is 100% accurate, its point is still very valid.

None of those pagan holidays have anything to do with the Bible or Christs teachings.... or am I wrong?

None of the pagan holidays, none of the hypocrisies, none of the wrong-doings by the church etc. have anything whatsoever to do with Christs teachings, etc. The same can be said for any other religion.

The Buddhist analogy of the dog works again and again. People are like dogs, the finger points to an object, and they look at the finger. You cannot convince them that there is an actual object to be found in the direction the finger is pointing.

They will analyze the finger until they starve to death, neglecting the wheel of cheese to which you are pointing behind them.

This is the phenomena that the modern material world and 'religion' has found itself in.

None of it has anything to do with the actual knowledge or lessons imparted by said religions. Not the holidays, not the dressings, not the deified paintings and sculptures, not the grand churches, not the wars... but we keep talking about the finger. The disbeliever mocks the finger, and the believer hugs the finger and clings to it for dear life. Meanwhile the wheel of cheese sits in the corner and rots

We have to stop bringing up things like Pagan holidays and all the other nonsense that is done by the VATICAN and blaming it on Christianity. Holidays are just a finger. And a misleading one at that.

Zeitgeist is just another finger... if you believe it's pointing at the truth, you'll have already moved to the wheel of cheese. Nevertheless it is possible that many people have already seen the wheel and were not tripped up by the finger... these are the people who have a hard time explaining things to the finger-lookers etc.

[edit on 22-2-2008 by NewWorldOver]

reply to post by NewWorldOver


Thanks.... you seem to agree and disagree so I'm not sure how to reply but all I can say is.... People who take the Bible for its word OR people who take the Bible as a mans story to take lessons from.... either way... people base their entire lives on things that have very few facts... yet when watching a movie with a lot of facts not all 100% but still... why should it be condemned by the same person who does this everyday of their lives.

I'm no Christian basher so don't get me wrong, I believe in my own version of religion and where I came from it just seems odd to have websites dedicated to bashing Zeitgeist from people who are even more guilty of what they accuse others.







[edit on 22-2-2008 by II HAL II]

Originally posted by NewWorldOver
None of those pagan holidays have anything to do with the Bible or Christs teachings.... or am I wrong?

The dates and much of the symbolism of Christmas and Easter are absolutely Pagan in origin. I'm sure I don't need to go into detail but Easter is named after the Heathen goddess Eostre and the egg is an ancient symbol of fertility and birth, synomynous with Spring. Christmas is the Winter Solstice, the tree and Santa Klaus are both pre-Christian in origin..

Originally posted by NewWorldOver
None of the pagan holidays, none of the hypocricies, none of the wrong-doings by the church etc. have anything whatsoever to do with Christs teachings, etc. The same can be said for any other religion.

True, and a good point. However, we both know that Christianity - as a religion - encompasses so much more than just the teachings of Jesus. If Christianity was concerned strictly with the teachings of Jesus and nothing more, with no perversions or alterations, I wouldn't have a single bone to pick with it. Unfortunately, from what I gather, any Christian who even attends a Church is acting contrary to Christ's teachings. And most people would only consider a person who attends Church a true Christian. It's all very tainted and muddled.

I'm not here to engage in another argument about whether Christianity is good or bad. I'm trying, for once, to address the topic.

I feel you may be right to a point.. The New world Order is not some tight group where everyone agrees...

There is a power struggle going on within the top ranks..
Researched David Miscavige... I belive he is just one member of the illuminati.. And he is pushing for power... And the one with the power, is fighting aginst him...

Who ever got this movie out.. Is clearly trying to win the minds..
Its complex... Please study more about this as I have.. And it might become clear..
These elites. fight with eachother.. They all want the power... But only one may have it.. Its ruthless.. Dangerous..

And I feel a bit ummm.. Out of my league even bringing this up..
But its something to ponder.. Or give a little thought if anything..

seeing how the zeitgeist is really more of a collage of other movies, you are now debunking a volume of work, instead of one movie.

For example, it seems most people get all worked up over the first part of the film, about Christianity. Fact is, zeitgeist isn't making any new claims. All of that material is from other sources, some from books written over 50 years ago.

You seem to be implying that Loose Change, Freedom to Fascism, Money Masters, and many other works are also part of the NWO scheme. While it wouldn't shock me (since not much does anymore) I just can't see the motive behind it. Sort of like the tobacco companies running anti-smoking campaigns? But they are required to do that...

here's a pretty good site that attempts to break down all the claims from the movie:

zeitgeistcritic.com...

I strongly disagree with The Walking Fox's assertion that religion and spirituality are one in the same. I predict the definition of religion will expand. It will (or at least should) mean ANYTHING that's believed without absolute proof. Therefore most atheists today are actually religious. What they/you both have in common is fear of the end of the National Security state - religion's fascist best friend - and the revelation of the nonhuman intelligence(s) (PLURAL). It's unavoidably inherently anti-monotheistic. I wouldn't say all religions are responsible for the world's miseries, but definitely the Abrahamic and Satanic (or close enough) ones are.

Originally posted by Lightworth
I strongly disagree with The Walking Fox's assertion that religion and spirituality are one in the same. I predict the definition of religion will expand. It will (or at least should) mean ANYTHING that's believed without absolute proof. Therefore most atheists today are actually religious. What they/you both have in common is fear of the end of the National Security state - religion's fascist best friend - and the revelation of the nonhuman intelligence(s) (PLURAL). It's unavoidably inherently anti-monotheistic. I wouldn't say all religions are responsible for the world's miseries, but definitely the Abrahamic and Satanic (or close enough) ones are.

I'm afraid you've been misinformed.
I'm a christian. Read my Stargates are Real thread here on ATS.
Or my UFO thread.
Read my input on the subject of moon anomalies.
Read Dake (bible scholar) who wrote a book on the subject of angelic races inhabiting the entire solar system, and he wrote back in the 50s.
Read Guy Malone from Alien Resistance, a guy who was abducted by ETs repeatedly from the time he was a child.
Read the countless examples of people who not only believe there's life on other planets but ETs to boot, who just also happen to be christians.

The stereotypes have GOT TO STOP.

The OP is right.
the result can and/or will be more unpleasant for the survivors than those who lose their lives in such a scenario.
you will lose friends and loved ones that you never anticipated losing, in such a scenario. people who you genuinely liked and cared about, will be gone on the very weakest of pretenses - that being, the belief that you can force others to believe as you do. you can't. it has never worked and it never will.

I have had major problems with this movie since the day I saw it and not from a religious perspective but strictly from the factual errors in the ancient history parts of the movie, which is what it starts with. When you start a documentary (I guess it can called a documentary) with nothing but historical hearsay and errors that’s a major problem. No one can show any ancient texts that make these extraordinary claims. These claims were made up in our own lifetimes and people ran with them without doing any fact checking or researching.

The success of Zeitgeist the movie comes from one human aspect - tell someone what he or she want to believe and he or she will believe it without question. Example: If you tell someone who does not like Christianity that the God HORUS was Born of a virgin on December 25th and his birth was accompanied by a star in the east, etc. and this story all occurred before the story of Jesus then that person is almost guaranteed to believe the entire claim without challenging any part of it.

So many people made fools of themselves touting this movie has fact and now they have to back pedal as it all falls apart. I do not believe there is any grand conspiracy behind the movie itself though. It is just general amateur laziness that we see in all forms these days that did not allow for better research. But lets face it, whoever, made the movie probably got all of their information off of websites and because that information fit their own personal way of thinking they did not bother going to any great lengths to research the history behind the claims.


[edit on 22-2-2008 by zerotime]

NewWorldOver,

correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't you pagan?
your defense of other people's beliefs is admirable.
and i feel a much more christian approach to the topic
than might be seen on similar subjects unrelated to
christianity.

as far as this facade of "huge amounts of christians"
in the world -- i think that's a falsely manufactured
rumor and not the reality of the situation.

i recall
as a new christian over 30 years ago, being treated
horribly just because i was no longer a partier. i quit
going to bars. i started dressing like i had some respect for
my body, and tried to be a better person than i was
before, which ultimately was an insult to people who
were not trying to better themselves in similar ways.
i wasn't criticizing their choices, merely changing my
choices. i didn't tell them to cut their hair, or change
their clothes or even stop drinking. i simply quit doing
that type of thing myself.

but because there are some who teach on that subject
only, it is viewed as the mindset of all christians. all i can
say is, you're a free will agent. you do what you think is
best, and so will i. if i don't have free will, neither does
anyone else.

Originally posted by zerotime

So many people made fools of themselves touting this movie has fact and now they have to back pedal as it all falls apart. I do not believe there is any grand conspiracy behind the movie itself though. It is just general amateur laziness that we see in all forms these days that did not allow for better research. But lets face it, whoever, made the movie probably got all of their information off of websites and because that information fit their own personal way of thinking they did not bother going to any great lengths to research the history behind the claims.


[edit on 22-2-2008 by zerotime]

Ok lets see YOUR research to bunk it then... seriously I'm interested, espesially if you dont use websites for your information you must be very dedicated to this subject.