Ronald Weinland (nothing yet...)

Originally posted by daggyz
3 1/2 years will be crammed into 12 months. The fact that today RW asked his people to pray for destruction means that no destruction has happened yet ( two years into a time of destruction) and still they can't see how wrong he is. No one, I mean no one is that stupid surely?

He said to pray for MORE destruction. Plenty has already been taking place. Now look.....

reply to post by spaznotz


Baited ! So if this was as a result of the prayers of Ron Weinland followers and no one else, then it proves they don't really know God. Gods word, not just the written word, but the spirit within all kingdom believers allows prayer for the physical harm of others how?

Baited and exposed !!!!

It's looks like your linked to the darker side of the spirit wortld, not in proof of an answered prayer, but in the hearts of those that would believe they could pray this way and that God would answer it because they think he answers prayers for the harm of others.

Baited and exposed !!! I'm surpirsed Doctorex didn't say what you did but maybe he's seen the light?

I'll give you a chance to prove it scripturally but I won't hold my breath.

I just listed all the names of NZ's elders of RW's cult in a media forum to say that these people and those that follow them prayed for this to happen..... thye prayed for destruction and they think the earthquake was an answer to their prayers. Lets see how they are recieved now becuase if they deny they prayed for it they disobeyed Ron, if they agree they prayed for it then they aren't Christians according to the word of God.

Should be fun to watch. Media alerted for later.

Well Spaznotz, no answer to that aye?

Finally realised the stupidity of your treatize on what you think Christ's command to us is? Finally seen how not only inhuman your agreeacnce on praying for desturction ois but alos unbiblical? Finally seen that all that is to happen is already written but one can prophesy if they are accurate in God but not call destruction upon? (and Ron couldn't even prophesy this as one it's too specific and two, he had to ask for his 'flock' to pray for destruction (loosly , anything... God give us something...I can't declare it on my own... )

So will you answer and fall deeper into your deception or will you fade away like Doctorex?

The choice is yours

What is there to answer? You are saying that is wrong to place peoples fate in the hands of God, yet think it's fine to take it into your own hands to place people in danger, then lecture on the spirit of God's word? The only thing you are exposing is yourself and your blind hatred. I would seriously ponder the legal significance of what you are doing. If those people get harmed because of your actions, you might be in some serious legal trouble, let alone spiritually. If that earthquake was indeed's God's will, your beef is with God, not Ron Weinland.

Will you still believe Ronald Weinland is a true prophet after Christ does not return at the appointed day?

Will you still believe he and his wife are the Two Witnesses, even if they are not martyred 3 1/2 days before the end of the 1260days?

Just because someone claims to be one of the Two Witnesses, does not make it so.

Christ himself, did not tell others (which would have been vanity) that he was the Christ (of course he was). He agreed when others said he was, but basically his response was to look at the fruits.

Ronald has claimed this title, but there are zero fruits.

Claiming an event is fulfilled prophecy AFTER the fact, does not a prophet make.

Was it vanity for Paul to claim he was an Apostle? Was it vanity for the prophets of old to claim they were prophets,coming with word from the mouth of the Lord? No, it wasn't. Will you still claim Ron to be a false prophet as the events he has prophesied continue to take place in the lead up to the return of Christ?

I don't know why Daggz is so upset that destruction would be the will of God in the end times, and call unity with the will of God to be "unchristian". The very reason for the destruction to be allowed is to humble mankind to repentence, it is FOR THEIR GOOD! The dead will be resurrected, or is he forgetting that? Is it wrong to pray for the events prophesied to take place that usher in the return of Christ, for people to be humbled to repentence? Was it wrong for the people of old to pray for events that caused many deaths that turned people back to the Lord, when God answered those prayers? Will it be wrong for the two witnesses to call down plaugues on mankind in the lead-up to the return of Christ, when it is God himself who gave them this power? No, it is simply showing unity with God. If that is not God's will at this time, then God's will be done. That is the difference between prayer (placing things in God's hands) and taking it upon yourself to place people in harms way.


It is becoming more clear now why people will cheer and share gifts when the two witnesses are killed.

Originally posted by spaznotz
Was it vanity for Paul to claim he was an Apostle? Was it vanity for the prophets of old to claim they were prophets,coming with word from the mouth of the Lord? No, it wasn't. Will you still claim Ron to be a false prophet as the events he has prophesied continue to take place in the lead up to the return of Christ?

edit on 22-2-2011 by spaznotz because: (no reason given)

You seem to forget Paul saying "i speak as a fool", when he discussed such matters.

Paul demonstrated he was an apostle by the stripes on his back for preaching the gospel, not by saying he was one.

You seem to misunderstand what a prophet is. I urge you to examine Moses. And how he prophesied.
A prophet foretells things of the future, not make vague general predictions.
Moses specified time, place, people, plague....he batted 10 out of 10 plagues.

Ronald doesn't even come close.

Regarding whether it is God's will that plagues be cast....you need to re-read the Revelation passage, the decision is up to the prophets ("as often as they will [the plagues can be cast]").

So this decision is up to Ronald + Wife, but so far, he's not been up to the job.

(I realize he's putting the onus on the membership now, asking for their prayers, this way he can disallow himself of any lack of fulfillment by blaming the members)

ps. you evaded my simple question

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2

You seem to forget Paul saying "i speak as a fool", when he discussed such matters.

Paul demonstrated he was an apostle by the stripes on his back for preaching the gospel, not by saying he was one.

Really?

1Corinthians 1:1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

1Corinthians 9:1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

1Corinthians 9:2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.

2Corinthians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,

1Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Savior, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

2Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

1Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,


I didn't evade any question, it's quite obvious if christ does not return then he is a false prophet, but things he has prophesied have already taken place.


If God sthem the power to cast plagues, obviously it is His will, don't you think?

You do realize there are a host of other prophecies that have yet to be fulfilled?

A (another one) false prophet that calls down fire from heaven.
A beast leader that heads a revived Roman Empire (ie European Union).
An enforced mark.
Martyrdom of saints.
And a host of other ones.

I realize that Ronald Weinland wants to compress all this into the very last day......

reply to post by spaznotz


Set out scriptures like a full on religious person. Jesus is not interested in religion, he lambasted the religious. Don't you undertsand that demons could quote scripture better and twist it better than you and if they can, they can influence others to do the same. The heart of a person reveals more and your heart was exposed yesterday for all to see. You need to give up here.

Why do you fool yourself?

reply to post by spaznotz



You just don't get it. Yes, the quake is Gods will obviously becuase the earth is convusing as it will. But you just said yesterday that RW aksed for peopel to pray for destruction and you agreed with that.

You are not a Christain my friend you are certainly religious and now very dangerous and you can';t see that which makes you more dangerous.

Guys, forget being misled by any RW supporter of anything until this question is answered. Don't raise anything about what RW has stated that hasn't come true until this question is answered.

"Where does God endorse his people to pray for MORE destruction to come upon the earth"

I want to see his followers show scripture references but far far fra more importantluy I want them to show where Gods heart is in this and why he would cause a followers heart to pray for the physical (and therefore spiritual)deaths of people while there is yet time to save them. This heart attitude of RW and his follwers shows more of their heart and attitude and future than anything else that has ever been said.

Come on Spaznotz and Doctorex and others. Prove yourselves as true sons of God, brothers of Christ and 'lights in this world' by answering - "Where does God allow,endorse or encourage his people to pray for MORE destruction to come upon the earth as RW has asked and you believe is right"

There are some very thought-provoking points being raised on both sides here. Can I just say, however, that it is my humble opinion that we are living in the "beginning of birthpangs" or "beginning of sorrows" as Christ prophesied (Matthew 24:8). Hence, "all these things" (v. 6) including religious deception, terrorism and warfare, crop failures and food shortages, disease epidemics and earthquakes (vv. 5-8) will undoubtedly intensify leading up to the Second Coming of Christ.

Also, there are some psalms of King David that are known as imprecatory psalms

Theopedia "Imprecatory Psalms"

So I am of the belief that Christians are allowed to seek and request God for His correction upon others not unlike we ask for His correction in our own lives. This in no way sanctions personal vengeance (Romans 12:19-21), but actually places the matter before God to judge as David affirmed concerning his grievance with King Saul (1 Samuel 24:12; 26:9-11a).

And surely there will be more heavy correction from God in the years to come upon the Anglo-American nations, and indeed upon all nations (notably through the ministry of His Two Witnesses when they are revealed), in view of His divine call for national repentance and reformation (Revelation 9:20-21).

Lets get this in perspective. This post is about Ron Weinland who is suppossed to be the end time Elijah and a prophet here to bring in the 144000 who will be in heaven (brief description).

He is now asking his followers to PRAY for increasaed destruction.

What that means, non COG/PKG believers is that they are praying for your home to be destroyed, your friends and family to die, your cities to be burned up, blown down, flooded or flattened. They, on RW's instruction, are PRAYING for massive damage to infastructure, massive loss of live and despair and agony to be delivered to the people of the earth.

While we know that this will occur anyway, it's in the Bible and the earth certaining is groaning and convusing awaiting the revealing of the sosn of God, these people are being asked to PRAY that this occurs on an increased scale.

Come of RW supporters. Come on Spaznotz, Doctorex and others. Justify this praying for death and destruction both scripturally and spiritually. Explain how a child of Gods heart (while knowing it will happen anyway) would actaully pray, willing it to happen so you can gloat oyur leader is right!

Explain to the families of Christchurch (especially you Spaznotz) and you elders of the NZ church, that you actually PRAYED for this to happen and it did and you are glad or at least right in doing so.

Go on explain it please !

Originally posted by daggyz
reply to post by spaznotz

 

Set out scriptures like a full on religious person. Jesus is not interested in religion, he lambasted the religious. Don't you undertsand that demons could quote scripture better and twist it better than you and if they can, they can influence others to do the same.

Sigh....you are impossible Daggyz. You ask for scripture to back up beliefs yet condemn someone when they quote scripture????? You do know Christ himself and the Apostles also quoted scripture?

The heart of a person reveals more and your heart was exposed yesterday for all to see. You need to give up here.

It was you who showed your heart by openly stating that you plastered people's names on the internet, directly placing them in harms way. Unlike those who place matters in God's hands, praying for events to humble people to repentence, you take matters into your own hands out of hate. Now I see you're going around and bad mouthing me in the thread on the earthquake, stating things I never even said. In your lies, you claim I stated that the earthquake was soley and only the reason of the prayers called for by Ron Weinland, when I did no such thing. I never even stated that the earthquake was the result of these prayers, I simply pointed out that RW had asked for prayers and that a couple of days later we had a major earthquake. I don't know God's will, but if major disasters that Ron specified as the 7 thunders do continue to take place directly after praying for an escalation in them, I think that shows God's will, don't you? You then lie and say that the prayers were for destruction so that Ron would be proven right, when that was not the case at all. They were prayers for an increase in the thunders to humble people into repentence, but hey, why let the truth get in the way of a good lie, hey Daggyz. It is yourself you are exposing.

You are not a Christain my friend you are certainly religious and now very dangerous and you can';t see that which makes you more dangerous.

Who is more dangerous, one who places matters in God's hands, or takes them into his own?

Guys, forget being misled by any RW supporter of anything until this question is answered. Don't raise anything about what RW has stated that hasn't come true until this question is answered.

"Where does God endorse his people to pray for MORE destruction to come upon the earth"

I want to see his followers show scripture references but far far fra more importantluy I want them to show where Gods heart is in this and why he would cause a followers heart to pray for the physical (and therefore spiritual)deaths of people while there is yet time to save them. This heart attitude of RW and his follwers shows more of their heart and attitude and future than anything else that has ever been said.

There is scriptural backing to asking for corrective measures to be installed on people. For instance, read up on the story of Elijah....you know, the one who God promised he would send another of in the end time with the same spirit and power?

You seem to think that someones physical death negates God's opportunity to save them. You obviously do not understand God's plan of salvation, which includes the resurrection. As I and another here have already pointed out, God sends two witnesses in the end who have power to bring corrective plagues on people to humble them to repentence (even though most will refuse), even bringing the 7 last plagues on the earth. You somehow are in disagreement with that, and think that God would not do such a thing out of Love, to humble people so they will eventually listen, either in this life or after their resurrection. You need to read your Bible more.

Come on Spaznotz and Doctorex and others. Prove yourselves as true sons of God, brothers of Christ and 'lights in this world' by answering - "Where does God allow,endorse or encourage his people to pray for MORE destruction to come upon the earth as RW has asked and you believe is right"

God endorses such prayers by answering those prayers, just as he did Elijahs. If he doesn't, then you have nothing to worry about....do you?

Lets get this in perspective. This post is about Ron Weinland who is suppossed to be the end time Elijah and a prophet here to bring in the 144000 who will be in heaven (brief description).

That statement proves you don't even have a clue what Ron teaches.

He is now asking his followers to PRAY for increasaed destruction.

What that means, non COG/PKG believers is that they are praying for your home to be destroyed, your friends and family to die, your cities to be burned up, blown down, flooded or flattened. They, on RW's instruction, are PRAYING for massive damage to infastructure, massive loss of live and despair and agony to be delivered to the people of the earth.

They are for corrective destruction. You do know that God says that over 2/3 of the planet will die during then end times before the return of Christ, don't you? Are you in disagreement with God?

While we know that this will occur anyway, it's in the Bible and the earth certaining is groaning and convusing awaiting the revealing of the sosn of God, these people are being asked to PRAY that this occurs on an increased scale.

Stop lying. They are NOT praying for it to happen more than is God's will, or more than God states in the Bible. They are simply praying for it to begin NOW so that MORE can be humbled NOW, and in turn LIVE! You in turn want great destruction for over three and a half years, when Ron says the greater part listed in the Bible of that destruction will be condensed, in turn giving LESS suffering, not more. You think it is God's will to prolong that suffering, yet think it evil to pray to have it more condensed. You are a very confused individual.

Come of RW supporters. Come on Spaznotz, Doctorex and others. Justify this praying for death and destruction both scripturally and spiritually. Explain how a child of Gods heart (while knowing it will happen anyway) would actaully pray, willing it to happen so you can gloat oyur leader is right!

That is your problem, you think this is all about Ron, when it's about God. You even admit that a true believer knows this will happen (because it is in the Bible). Nothing takes place against God's will. By praying such prayers, you are simply stating to God your unity with God's will, that this world need to be humbled to listen to Him. Somehow to you, stating your unity with the wil of God is wrong, heartless, and uncaring. It is you who does not understand the spririt of the word of God.

Explain to the families of Christchurch (especially you Spaznotz) and you elders of the NZ church, that you actually PRAYED for this to happen and it did and you are glad or at least right in doing so.

Go on explain it please

Yes, it is sad that this is the only way to get people to actually listen to God, and that involves suffering. It is God himself who pints this out through scripture (which you have a problem with). If that suffering does actually make people listen to God, humbles them to repentence, then that suffering is a good thing, wouldn't you say? Or would you prefer to God to simply snuff everybody out in one swipe of his hand and be done with it? Satan himself has always portrayed God's ways as unloving, uncaring, unfair, just as you are doing. You cannot see, yet, that God's ways, even when he causes death, are actually acts of LOVE, because that correction, when resurrected, can lead to salvation.

Anyway, this conversation is pointless. Take care Daggyz.

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2
You do realize there are a host of other prophecies that have yet to be fulfilled?

A (another one) false prophet that calls down fire from heaven.
A beast leader that heads a revived Roman Empire (ie European Union).
An enforced mark.
Martyrdom of saints.
And a host of other ones.

I realize that Ronald Weinland wants to compress all this into the very last day......

Ron has NOT said those events will take place on the last day. He has stated thos events are fulfilled in the lead up to the last day, the majority in the the five month window mentioned in Revelation 9:10.

I can see why others have given up on this thread. It really is pointless.

At the same time can I just add although God allows all this death, destruction and devastation upon his peoples it is for a higher, spiritual, divine purpose that at present we may have difficulty in understanding.

We are limited by our human nature and imagination, seeing only pieces of a puzzle, or as Paul described it as looking “through a glass, darkly” (1 Corinthians 13:12). But, the Big Picture is always before God who “is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent” (Numbers 23:19) nor is he the Devil who “savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men” (Matthew 16:23). Hence, as Job 37:5 says, “Great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend” and Isaiah 55:9, “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.”

We must remember that God’s plan is one of salvation as was exemplified throughout Jesus Christ’s ministry, who when a Samaritan village refused him entry and his disciples asked permission to “command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them” he rebuked them saying, “Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them” (Luke 9:51-56).

Spaznotx, you say this thread is pointless. You haven;t been in it from the beginning and your continuing it now..... get the point? Porbbaly not!

You analyse things like a truley relgious person defending your weird arguements by sectioning previous statements one by one. All religious people do this. Jesus hated religious defense as I'm sure you will agree.
I cannot see where you have answered my question, carefully sudestepping with analysis liek all good religious people.

Thebfcat is RW asked his people and you to pray for increased. Destruction. Did you do that? Did you pray for increased estruction to fall on the earth. If you say yes all well and good we know what twisted spirituality RW has, if you say no, why are you disobyeying your leaders?

Just answer the question. Did you pray for increased destruction and take credit for Christchuch on the asumption God heard you?

From Ronald (the insane lying false prophet) Weinland's website...

He's asking his members to pray for judgment to come NOW.

Will God answer Ronald Weinland?

No.

Will his followers still remain Ronald Weinland's followers?

Yes.