What if I have found a way to immortality?

It is always now, and you are the now. Everything else is just an appearance, including the mind.

To those that say it is impossible. Is it?
www.newscientist.com...

The key gene that keeps embryonic stem cells in a state of youthful immortality has been discovered.

The gene found in mouse ESCs and some human equivalents appears to be the "master gene", co-ordinating other genes to allow stem cells to multiply limitlessly while still retaining their ability to differentiate. It has been christened Nanog after the land in Celtic myth called Tir nan Og, whose inhabitants remain forever young.

Originally posted by v01i0
Yep, I know you find it hard to believe, but suppose it is true. I assure you, I have real moral issues about sharing this knowledge. Therefore I want to consult ATS about what should one do?

I mean, there's lot of money available to one with knowledge like this, but I don't value person by his wealth - but a poor person can be just as immoral as rich and fat (and ill), when received with a gift of immortality.

Should I form some school, or tradition or some religious movement around this knowledge? No, because it wouldn't be moral to rise some people above the others. This is real problem for me as well, I cannot use the knowledge because I would elevate myself, and therefore I would just be very lonely in my immortality.

Should I tell it to everyone then? No way, currently there are way many people inhabiting the earth, and if they cease to die what a catastrophy we would have at our door? Mankind just seems not to be ready for such gift. Then you wonder why you aren't immortal? Maybe I just have to die with the knowledge I have

I don't believe you should share your knowledge. Some of the responses in this thread ought to be good illustrations of why you should be reticent if you truly have such a gift. Few people would really appreciate it, anyway. Others would seek to discredit you or steal what you have.

Immortality?

Maybe...

Scientists have already cloned animals, it's just a matter of time until
humans are cloned also. When they are, we could all look forward to
the possibility of 'starting' our own personal clone at say, age 40.

By age 65, our clone will be 25. By then, brain-transplant surgery could
be commonplace, thus transferring one's brain into the clone, and BAM!
We get to start over at age 25, while retaining all life's knowledge, and
experience, and memories, without the physical limitations of an aging
body!

At age 40 (again), start your own personal clone (again), and on and on...

"I feel like I've been here before!"

in case you all did not understand he stated that the post was just one to test his fellow man. Some of you are being aggressive over nothing. Perhaps it is the mere wish of being able to live for a long long time.

I do however like 2 things... In the bible mankind used to live 800 years long. Scientists say if they unlock this newly discovered gene in mice that deals with age or whatever... they can expand human life til around the age of 800.... does anyone see a link? God took away mans close-to-immortality due to mans unworthiness. Now if he introduced something to the world... perhaps we can figure out what it was and take it out... I thought this was interesting anyways.

reply to post by rjmelter

I gave a link a few posts up. That article is a few years old though. Here are some more:

news.nationalgeographic.com...
www.bio.davidson.edu...
www.world-science.net...

Experiments have produced one of the longest recorded life-span extensions in any organism and opened doors for anti-aging research in humans, researchers say.

Scientists have known for several years that an extra copy of a gene called SIR2 can promote longevity in yeast, worms and fruit flies.

But now, scientists at the University of Southern California say removing the gene gives even better results: it makes fruit flies live up to six times longer than normal.

Originally posted by h3akalee
reply to post by trust-no1

 

My good man.

There is more than one way to live forever shall i share my secret with you ?

Ok i will.

Firstly find a plastic airtight container then find a pen and paper then place your life story on the paper then laminate it.

Then bury the container in your back garden if your lucky someone will dig it up in a few thousand year's.

And hey presto happy birthday.

Take care.

Regards
Lee

[edit on 20-2-2008 by h3akalee]

Haha.
Well I say, now my life is complete.
But for the record...I am not a man.

reply to post by trust-no1


Good points. Human body indeed is fragile one. Many bacteria are able to kill humans, slight physical damages in vulnerable areas could kill a man(or some other sex in your case) instanty, lack of oxygen and so forth. That gives us nice bridge to cloning, which few posters has already considered (I will only quote the latest ones here now, there have been few mentions before on this thread, all the credit for those as well):

Originally posted by ThreeNF
I think immortality will be achievable through science one day, by providing the ability to clone the old body and create a new one [...]

Originally posted by FRIGHTENER
By age 65, our clone will be 25. By then, brain-transplant surgery could
be commonplace, thus transferring one's brain into the clone, and BAM!
We get to start over at age 25 [...]

While I absolutely accept this possibility of science being able to clone humans (they have done it already - although they won't confess it as it is forbidden by many laws!), the results of scientific life extension will be terrible in my opinion. Even if they would fit in category with immortality, all the meddling; the transferring of brains, memories and so forth can cause symptoms unexpected, for example lunacy and maddness. Why do I think so? Because those whose life has been artificially expanded, are not quite prepared to live that long. Their minds/souls cannot comprehend it, it is too much information for their capacity and they shall collapse - just my opinion again

Originally posted by TheComte

news.nationalgeographic.com...
www.bio.davidson.edu...
www.world-science.net...

Thanks for the links TheComte, I'm sure they'll be very informative those who are interested in this issue.

reply to post by WEOPPOSEDECEPTION


I tend to agree with this poster, even (s?)he doesn't say much, it is solid rock!

But what I think, those who are kind of an artificial immortality, shouldn't get it - just DunJin and few others above has put it. Why? They doesn't have the responsibility for immortality. But I'm basically talking about natural immortality, hidden in deep inside the mystery of human being - there's lot of talk about immortal masters (for example some indian yogi's are said to live easily 500+ years). But since they have not come out with their secret, I have reason to suspect that they started to think just the way I do

Originally posted by rjmelter
In the bible mankind used to live 800 years long. Scientists say if they unlock this newly discovered gene in mice that deals with age or whatever... they can expand human life til around the age of 800.... does anyone see a link? God took away mans close-to-immortality due to mans unworthiness. Now if he introduced something to the world... perhaps we can figure out what it was and take it out... I thought this was interesting anyways.

Originally posted by h3akalee
Firstly find a plastic airtight container then find a pen and paper then place your life story on the paper then laminate it.

yeah, or jump and drown into a swamp - there's always good possibility there too

From the first few post I read I will say that the obvious is that immortality is indeed possible. And many in the scientific world are seeking it... link This would include M. Kaku, theoretical physicist.

Now these guys will tell you what I will say...its not that they want to live forever, necessarily - but they want control over 2 areas...

1) How they die (i.e. without suffering, etc)
2) When they die...a choice about when they leave.

i would go a step further and say...

3) the ability to choose how one 'incarnates' again if they want as well as keeping the previous lifetimes knowledge with them. (Now this wont float well with the strict line evangelicals...but that is neither here nor there.)

Immortality is possible.

Now as for the O.P.s comment that seemed to imply overpopulation.
Take out google earth and search the globe and realize that we are concentrated in cities...There is way more space than you can imagine...and if we would get our ecology, psychology, etc. straightened out - food would not be an issue either.

But again, immortality is for those that really want it...fact is people dont want to be immortal as much as they dont want to wake up from the dream their in.

After all they paid the money for this simulation, as it were, and they are going to get every dimes worth. For some that means suffering (as the Buddhist would put it) and for others, the reward is learning that you no longer need to suffer.

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by rjmelter
in case you all did not understand he stated that the post was just one to test his fellow man. Some of you are being aggressive over nothing. Perhaps it is the mere wish of being able to live for a long long time.

I do however like 2 things... In the bible mankind used to live 800 years long. Scientists say if they unlock this newly discovered gene in mice that deals with age or whatever... they can expand human life til around the age of 800.... does anyone see a link? God took away mans close-to-immortality due to mans unworthiness. Now if he introduced something to the world... perhaps we can figure out what it was and take it out... I thought this was interesting anyways.

There is a possible link there Read Rael's book, which was written in the early 70s, about why Adam, Eve, etc., lived 10 times longer than humans do today. The book also explains why the people after the flood did not.

The message given by the Elohim to Rael is far too important not to be told. All I ask is that you read it, and make up your own mind

i personally think it would be wrong, not because it is immoral, but because our species must continue to evolve and adapt,t hat is why we die in the first place (or is it?) and immortality would be a way of proclaiming that we are the perfect form of human that can come about. Btw i have no problem if you want to give me the secret, there is a lot to do while i am alive and i fear my life will not be long enough to attain it. lol

reply to post by v01i0



Cloning, hmm...
Well yes, i do of course know cloning has been done, and by far it is the closest known way to immortality. But my knowledge is still vague on the cloning idea. Though i can see that yes, you basically 'live' forever if you are continuilly cloned, (which i see massive damage being done to your inner and outer molocules if you are concistent with your cloning thus rendering your clones usuelss in the far future...but that is purely my theory) but doesn't continually living forevr basically mean your brain, your mind and your memories live forever as well? Cloning, doesn't that kind of take the uniqueness of yourself out of the whole living forever process, to me it is kind of making a robot of yourself. Your feautres and human-like emotions yes.sure..that is there, but what about the thing that makes you you? Your soul, spirit and everything about your whole uniqueness...

I am merely voicing my opinion on the cloning subject..though i would like to know more about it so the above questions could be answerd though i also do hope that my point gets across clearly.

reply to post by trust-no1


Very Interesting... I read some of it, while psychologically speaking it sounds very primative, but very advanced still yet. It is hard to determine if this guy is just trying to persuade others to clone or experiment by creating a story to make you believe him or what... Im not sure but sometimes human sacrifice is neccessary... but sometimes someone comes up with an idea that sounds good but is bad and wrong. So hmmmm. I wish these human like creatures would come to me. I could write a better book then that guy... all hes doing is persuading. I believe I would add facts and dates that way people can check them and check them back against time. Then I beleive I would make a movie about it and others for free... Truth is Knowledge that is unclouded... and sometimes i think people will always cloud the truth if money or the "SELF" is involved.... self being the person satisfaction of yourself. ... Ill continue reading this RAEL thing... A lot of it is what has crossed my mind... however who knows, I just think that if a being were to have talked to him it woul dhave talked more sophisticated and described how things work, and not repeat what I could have looked up on GOOGLE. Which is an awesome site I might add

v01i0

But what I think, those who are kind of an artificial immortality, shouldn't get it - just DunJin and few others above has put it. Why? They doesn't have the responsibility for immortality. But I'm basically talking about natural immortality, hidden in deep inside the mystery of human being - there's lot of talk about immortal masters (for example some indian yogi's are said to live easily 500+ years). But since they have not come out with their secret, I have reason to suspect that they started to think just the way I do

It's a lot to consider, isn't it? Many of us dream of discovering something special to set us apart--but also to share with mankind. If those yogis do have that kind of knowledge, I'm not surprised they ain't sharing.

Unfortunately, what I think about is this: Being special has its limitations. Human beings fear the unknown and will seek to destroy it or make it into something we can use for our own purposes. While I'll make no comment about my belief in your theory, I'll reiterate: If you could do this, I'd be very careful about whom you choose to share your gifts with.

It may sound terrible of me, but I'm fearful of what mankind is willing to do to get control of nature. Whoever had the power to grant immortality should not expect fanfare, riches nor love. Instead, I think they should expect resentment, misunderstanding, jealousy and have reason to fear for their lives (in the case of non-immortals).

Don't believe it? Look at history. People who are different have lived in cages, been enslaved or housed in laboratories. Many UFO researchers and cryto-scientists seek to find "specimens" for the betterment--and understanding--of mankind. In short, it's how we do.

Good thread.

[edit on 22-2-2008 by DunJinn]

reply to post by dAlen

Thanks for you input man! However I have to disagree with you in two points: First of course is the overpopulation issue. While you are being correct that currently we live in "concentration camps" (hehe, sorry for that, couldn't resist), and rest of globe is uninhabited, think for a moment that we would not die. How long would that empty space be suffient for mankind. Not for long, unless there would be great birth control. And I think same goes with food. Once people stop dying, both food and space would quickly grow insuffient.

My another point of disagreement is that I don't think that immortality belongs to those who seek it. I won't explain that further because I think it has been already suffiently explained elsewhere in this same thread.

On your other points, I generally agree.

reply to post by ThreeNF

Have to read it sometimes. Sounds like interesting read in any case. There are so many books to read

reply to post by tankthinker

Maybe maybe. It indeed maybe that we are meant to die - it has been suggested earlier in this thread that death is just but a next step. But my belief is that while it is so, there is great extend of choice when to die for those who are worth it (even in spiritual (in transcension) or profane (in wealth) way).

reply to post by trust-no1

If soul is nothing more than connections and impulses in brains, then there would be no problem with cloning. But if it something else, like energy or matter that we are not aware of... Then cloners are in trouble

reply to post by DunJinn

Indeed. So many ways to abuse the possible immortality that I hardly believe it will not be available to masses, whether cloning or natural (by which I mean the immortality of body and soul through the reprocessing of stemcell operation in and by being itself). They say that path is very narrow in the end, one stray step, and doomed you are. One impure thought, you're not worthy. In cloning there is no such restriction; in theory everyone is cloneable if the technology is not too expensive, but as it cannot - for obvious reasons - handed to masses, who will judge who is worthy of life extension and who is not? As I said in my first post, poor and rich alike can be as corrupted.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Fine thoughts again everyone. This time I didn't see much flamers either, which is always positive. Although they don't bother me, they tend to distract the conversation.

I gonna be away for a weekend so this gonna prolly be my last post for couple of days unless I find some miraculous way to type in, or that I find a computer w/ net connection somewhere

Have a good time,

[edit on 22-2-2008 by v01i0]

Originally posted by v01i0
reply to post by dAlen

 

How long would that empty space be suffient for mankind. Not for long, unless there would be great birth control. And I think same goes with food. Once people stop dying, both food and space would quickly grow insuffient.

1) Technology and knowledge increases, with that comes further space exploration and living on other planets/moons, etc. (Underground, aboveground, etc)
Basically the universe (or is that multiverse) becomes your oyster!

2) I hear what your saying about it not belonging to those who seek...from one aspect that could be a frightening concept. Yet from another, I still hold to the view...but to each their own.

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by rjmelter
reply to post by trust-no1

 

Very Interesting... I read some of it, while psychologically speaking it sounds very primative, but very advanced still yet. It is hard to determine if this guy is just trying to persuade others to clone or experiment by creating a story to make you believe him or what... Im not sure but sometimes human sacrifice is neccessary... but sometimes someone comes up with an idea that sounds good but is bad and wrong. So hmmmm. I wish these human like creatures would come to me. I could write a better book then that guy... all hes doing is persuading. I believe I would add facts and dates that way people can check them and check them back against time. Then I beleive I would make a movie about it and others for free... Truth is Knowledge that is unclouded... and sometimes i think people will always cloud the truth if money or the "SELF" is involved.... self being the person satisfaction of yourself. ... Ill continue reading this RAEL thing... A lot of it is what has crossed my mind... however who knows, I just think that if a being were to have talked to him it woul dhave talked more sophisticated and described how things work, and not repeat what I could have looked up on GOOGLE. Which is an awesome site I might add

If you can write a better book, than by all means write it! Keep in mind that Rael wrote that book in the early 70s, a time when today's technology would be considered science fiction. Rael didn't have Google when he wrote that

lol...

Yes... I do not know what to think... how about that? I will leave it at the possibilities are endless and it could have been possible... But when will mankind ever be considered...suitable enough for the truth of these things?

Originally posted by rjmelter
reply to post by trust-no1

 

Very Interesting... I read some of it, while psychologically speaking it sounds very primative, but very advanced still yet. It is hard to determine if this guy is just trying to persuade others to clone or experiment by creating a story to make you believe him or what... Im not sure but sometimes human sacrifice is neccessary... but sometimes someone comes up with an idea that sounds good but is bad and wrong. So hmmmm. I wish these human like creatures would come to me. I could write a better book then that guy... all hes doing is persuading. I believe I would add facts and dates that way people can check them and check them back against time. Then I beleive I would make a movie about it and others for free... Truth is Knowledge that is unclouded... and sometimes i think people will always cloud the truth if money or the "SELF" is involved.... self being the person satisfaction of yourself. ... Ill continue reading this RAEL thing... A lot of it is what has crossed my mind... however who knows, I just think that if a being were to have talked to him it woul dhave talked more sophisticated and described how things work, and not repeat what I could have looked up on GOOGLE. Which is an awesome site I might add

Unfortunately I do not know what this 'Rael' thing is about, but of course i am extremely tired at the moment and it could be right under my nose and i could miss it.
This book you speak of, is it on cloning? This book you talked about, you say it is purely persuasion, not a good book in your idea, same with mine. Persuasive books aren't much use as it is based morally on opinion rather than facts and notes.
And yes, Google is rather awesome site.

Originally posted by v01i0
reply to post by trust-no1

 

If soul is nothing more than connections and impulses in brains, then there would be no problem with cloning. But if it something else, like energy or matter that we are not aware of... Then cloners are in trouble

Soul, i believe is what makes a person unique, it's what continues after life, and i believe that mere cloning cannot continue what our former bodies did for our souls, which is house it in our 'temples'. No matter your beliefs, our soul does somethng in the afterlife, whatever that may be, and i don't think that cloning can capture your 'life' after you personally have passed away. Therefore rendering your clone only a spit image of you in robotic form with feelings, emotions and sensuality.
I am totally open to any proof or such that could prove me wrong or anything else to help me understand the statement that possibly immortality could happen through the cloning of humans.

Originally posted by rjmelter
lol...

Yes... I do not know what to think... how about that? I will leave it at the possibilities are endless and it could have been possible... But when will mankind ever be considered...suitable enough for the truth of these things?

When will mankind be worthy of the truth? When we create peace