Contrails, understanding why they arent chemtrails

Lets just say some of us don't have as much faith in the knowledge and ability of the US military as you do What they want and what is possible are not always the same things.

In any case, the 'controlling the weather' paper refers to cloud seeding.

But if the US military think they can control the weather by instigating small increases in atmosphere temperature over a period of many years, well, I guess that proves my point. The US military don't know weather .....

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Ok, so this is how a CONTRAIL forms

Ingredients
Hot and humid jet engine exhaust
Low pressure
Low temperature
Water vapour already present in the atmosphere

Shock horror.....low pressure, low temperature and water vapour are all found at the height that airplanes fly at

Method
1. Warm and moist jet exhaust, which comprises of carbon dioxide and water is pushed into the super cooled atmopshere

2. The water in the exhaust increases the local content of water in the atmopshere causing the environment to become supersaturated

3. The water vapour in the exhaust condenses into water droplets (as it warms) and attaches itself to the already present water in the atmosphere (which at this altitude, exists as ice)

4. The more water in the atmosphere, the bigger the ice crystals the bigger the contrail and the more chance of the contrails spreading out to form cirrostratus. Cirrostratus is a high level cloud formed from cool air meeting warm rising air creating instability. It is a good indicator of rain or snow as it is formed in unstable conditions. This is why many of you experience bad weather after your "chemtrail" appears. Its not weather modification....its just a picture of the NATURAL change in the environment

Any questions

Any challenges

I welcome replies

Good starting point OP!

I have seen these white stripes in the air for a long time and if they are suddenly hanging there for a longer time it escaped my attention.

The fact that there are governments experimenting with spraying clouds (which they should not)) with silverdioxide and other stuff I will not consider here.

But chemtrails have yet to be proven to exist. So, how do we do that.
This will be tricky. EVEN if there are amateurs and scientists capturing all kinds of stuff on little capturing devices. Stuff you can't see with you bare eye.
The call them Bariumdioxide, polymerfibers, nanogeldrops (with unknown content) and more.
Here a link with cute photo's. These photo's intrigue me, what am i seeing here?

Photo's "chemtrail content"

The point is off course, that the dilligent investigator (mttt2008) of the microscopic content says he caught this stuff after chemtrail spraying.
If he says so, I believe him. I heard a labtechnician and plane engineer say the same.
BUT... as I often say in causal discussions, when a car drives by and I suddenly notice crap on the road this doesn't mean that cars are full of crap.
You have to link the plane to the the content. And there must be some logic behind it. For instance, I live nearby an airport and sometimes I step out of my door and take a good gulp of kerosine to start my day. A misty night provides this condition. Aha, that must be dumped from the plane, before or after burning it as fuel, I conclude. Logic helps here, because planes around here use kerosine as fuel. Sorry when I am boring you!

There are two mayors questions that have to be answered.

1. Where does the stuff (bariumwhatever/polymerthreads/eerie nanogeldrops) come from when it does NOT come from the planes?

2. If you are killing off people or blocking alien radar as a secret body of governmental/industrial organizations wouldn't you do it in a invisible way?
Instead of using stripes in the air that hang there forever for everybody to see? This is not a rhetorical question. Seriously, let's come up with better secret ways of chemicalizing whole hurds of people. (This is a theoretical exercize!!)
The point is for chemtrails you need extra exhaust pipes on planes, secret loads of chemicals on roads an air, silent personel etc.

Originally posted by dAlen
See, this is the thing...I have posted again - and again...but people still dont watch and observe.

It does not matter if its chem trails or contrails.
Let me repeat this one basic statement.

It does not matter if its chem trails or contrails.
Im not sure if we are clear on this...but thats fine, Im sure another post will pop up about chem vs con.
................

Fine post, starred! I agree completely. I share you moment watching the sky. Last week on a job a watched outside and a crystal blue sky was crisscrossed with white lines. What would van Gogh have thought, wittnessing this. A co-worker, standing next to me said: it sure is busy up there. Yep, i said, and thought of all the posts on the net about chemtrails. This sure looked like the "grid" they were talking about. Lines in perfect angles creating a net covering the whole sky as far a I could see.
I felt like the paranoid kid in the movies. The next day is was the same. Articles on websites. Socalled scientists gathering evidence. And guess...

The next day we had a crystal clear blue sky the whole day ...and the next ...it seemed unnatural. Do the conditions differ that much? One day full of stripes and the next not.

My comment is. Of course it is all unnatural and of influence, but it is important to know if people are consciously poluting and harming people with a secret goal in mind. So whatever we call these trails we have to analyse what floats in the air and where it comes from. It is our duty to our children.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Sorry but you just lost all credibility here. I'm sorry but you really don't know what you're talking about.......
We can see clouds at ANY height on the horizon.

These are cirrus clouds. These clouds are as high as clouds can form:

As you can see, seeing them at the horizon is NO problem at all.

You don't get it....

No my friend it is you that does not get it. For one thing what altitude are your cirrus clouds? They form from 5-15 kilometers. You can see something 5 kilometers high at the horizon line. I am done trying to explain this to you.

They spray here in Phoenix all the time when the humidity is less than 10%. I guess your saying all that humid air hangs out at the higher altitudes. I thought cooler air holds less moisture than warm air.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
No my friend it is you that does not get it. For one thing what altitude are your cirrus clouds? They form from 5-15 kilometers. You can see something 5 kilometers high at the horizon line. I am done trying to explain this to you.

Good, because I refuse to argue with someone wishes to remain completely ignorant. There is no point.

For the rest of you who want to learn Cirrus clouds form at 23,000 feet and ABOVE (staying in the troposphere). Because of their make up, they can NOT form below that. The typical height is 26,000 feet.

I have no clue where LGM got that 5-15 km from but, it couldn't be more wrong.



Weoppose:

They spray here in Phoenix all the time when the humidity is less than 10%. I guess your saying all that humid air hangs out at the higher altitudes. I thought cooler air holds less moisture than warm air.

The air at which planes fly is well below zero. As the hot exhaust comes from the plane, that hot air that is being released sometimes condenses in that supercooled air.


Also, because the air is supercooled it means that if they really were spraying something, that chemical likely would have no chance of surviving even if it could reach the ground from that level (which it can't).

Folks, I flew commercial jetliners for nearly 22 years. A contrail is a contrail...it is produced by the action of the airplane disturbing the atmosphere and causing the condensation to appear.

The conditions are not always ripe for the production of the water vapor trails, depends on moisture content, upper-level wind speeds and direction, etc.

15 years ago, across the North Atlantic, we would...sometimes...see the contrails, but not always. Back then, before GPS, we relied on the INS...pretty accurate, but not to a few hundred feet laterally like GPS. Anyway, in daylight, it was good to see that we were all on the same NAT Track, within a mile or two either side of centerline (60 NM separate each Track).

You saw that someone above or below had some turbulence at his altitude, since the trails would disappear and re-appear like morse code...sheaqr effects in the altitude layer they were in. And besides....this is over the ocean!! Are they spraying to fish too?

Sometimes you will see only about 50 feet of vapor trailing the airplane you are either following, or is passing by in the opposite direction...ssometimes the trails last for a long time, and depending, again, on upper air currents, may begin to resemble cirrus.

Now, back to what I have yet to see someone explain....how are these 'chemicals' introduced? Are they in the Jet-A fuel? Do they survive the combustion temperatures within the engines to ultimately exit in the exhaust? How are these chemicals put into jet fuel with out changing its specific density? What a I mean is, Jet-A weighs, average, 6.7 pounds/gallon. Our fuel quantity sensors in the tanks are calibrated to read the density, and temp, of the fuel and adjust the displayed fuel quantity accordingly. So, either there is a vat conspiracy by every airplane manufacturer and engineer to change these settings to adjust for the addition of 'chemicals'...or maybe it's just water vapor....and thousands of airplane flights everyday, over continental USA and Europe.

But, back to these chems...they can survive about over 1000 degrees F??

And come out of the exhausts intact?

I invite some responses...

Heck, folks...I had a 'nother thought. Any film buffs out there? I've seen a really cheap Grade-B Western (spaghetti Western?) or two from the 1960s that managed to let a few contrails slip by the editors into the film.

The piston airplanes, prior to the advent of jets, did not make contrails, as a general rule. Jets, of course, at higher altitudes and hotter temps from the engines began to show up by their contrail, not always noticed in a quick pan of the camera...'course, sometimes you see telephone poles too!! Eh!!

Here's another idea, if you want...go out and try to find some old Jeppeson aeronautical charts, get the US-1 and US-2 High charts (your next airline flight, ask the pilots...the Jeppeson manuals are revised every two weeks, they will likely have some revisions in their bags, waiting to be put in to their manuals...old charts are trashed. (Of course, the revisions are only done in between flights...).

Point is, spread out these Charts and look at how Airways criss-cross the United States. Find where you live, and visualize how commercial jets will tend to fly the Airways, realize that the Airways converge at the VORs, and they can diverge from the Intersections (every Intersection is depicted by a triangle, and has a five-letter name), but also keep in mind that airliners are also allowed to go 'Direct', on request, so they can fly 'off-airway' between two points, depending on traffic and permission from ATC...

At first glance, the charts will seem full of info, but you'll be able to figure them out with a little study.

Have fun!!

Forgot to mention, the VORs show up as a hexagon, with three of the sides in BOLD...and VORs are three-digits. For more fun, airports are four digits, and in the USA always start with the letter 'K'... AND, there is a wealth of info on some of the other 'panels' on the charts....

[edit on 21-2-2008 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by greydawn
Oh and by the way Oz I love how you use Encyclopedia Britanicca as a source, wow

how creative.

What?

That wasn't me, that was Green Eyed Leo

Most of my information is from what I learned when I was training

Check again

Originally posted by spinladen
I was never a proponent of the whole chemtrail argument until last week. Last week I have seen some stuff go on in the skies above Omaha that just dumfound me still. All I can say since no one has posted it yet is...


www.orbwar.com...

It was just a passing fancy that allowed me to stumble upon this little nook of the net.

This website is a load of rubbish. That picture on it, at the top is irisation. Happens when sunlight is refracted by high level cirrus clouds and mid level altocumulus clouds. Almost same principle as rainbows.....next you will be saying rainbows are chemical spraying

Unfortunately, I don't own a camera that has not been sabotaged any more, so I don't go running around acting like a loon trying to inform a town that obviously is brainwashed and doesn't care.

And why is your camera sabotaged? Is it the brainwashed towns people

Originally posted by spinladen
ps., I can't for the life of me remember where I heard it, but some European country came clean on chem trails yesterday if I'm not mistaken, but I CAN NOT remember anything else, I will research that.

That article was from a biased website that twisted a real news article about radar interference. We have seen it before. It was apparently Germany

The original was about chaff deployed by jets to scatter radar signals and the effect of chaff on the environment. It had nothing to do with chemtrails until some crazy people rewrote it on their website

Originally posted by WEOPPOSEDECEPTION
They spray here in Phoenix all the time when the humidity is less than 10%. I guess your saying all that humid air hangs out at the higher altitudes. I thought cooler air holds less moisture than warm air.

You are right about that. But for contrail development you dont need heaps of water. The exhaust from airplanes contains plenty of water vapour, that encourages supersaturation when it is expelled from the engines.

Ground humidity has nothing to do with upper air humidity. Everything is different up there than it is down here. See if you can get your hands on a weather balloon trace. That will show everything. I may be able to get one of ours if you want, but will have to check first

look at that # they spray over my town (in those photos above) they always do it but it has never been that bad. you could taste it in the air, it taste a bit like metal and left your mouth feeling powdery. one trail spread across a sky that had no clouds.

Originally posted by onesockon
look at that # they spray over my town (in those photos above) they always do it but it has never been that bad. you could taste it in the air, it taste a bit like metal and left your mouth feeling powdery. one trail spread across a sky that had no clouds.

Oh, and the jetstream doesnt exist right?

200mph winds dont move small particles of ice right?

Sorry but it sounds like your talking crap

reply to post by OzWeatherman


i dont understand how i could be talking crap, i was out in my backyard taking photos of it

Originally posted by onesockon
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

i dont understand how i could be talking crap, i was out in my backyard taking photos of it

Yeah taking photos of a contrail, spreading to cirrus clouds

I was refering to you saying you had become ill feeling after you saw the trails. Anything sprayed at that height would be caught in the jetstream where there are winds in excess of 200mph. Anything caught up in them is going to hit the ground hundreds or even thousands of miles away before it reaches the ground directly below it

reply to post by OzWeatherman


i didnt say i got sick i just said you could taste it, my friend and my brother was here at the time aswel, we could taste it in the air, there were no clouds at the time either, the trail just started spreading across the town and when it spread you could notice it getting lower, not so low that it was around you like fog. trust me im not talking #e im just saying what was happening when i was out there taking photos of it

Originally posted by onesockon
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

i didnt say i got sick i just said you could taste it, my friend and my brother was here at the time aswel, we could taste it in the air, there were no clouds at the time either, the trail just started spreading across the town and when it spread you could notice it getting lower, not so low that it was around you like fog. trust me im not talking #e im just saying what was happening when i was out there taking photos of it

Well, perhaps there was some regular ol' polution in the air.

Are you even open to the possibility that what you took pictures of is just a normal contrail and whatever smoke (you said there was smoke on your other thread) and after taste is a result of something else. After all, you have some people here trying to tell you what you are seeing.

the smoke came so far down you could taste it

There clearly isnt any smoke in your pictures. I see a very clear sky, minus the cirrus clouds. Do you have any pictures of the smoke that was really far down around you?

[edit on 21-2-2008 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by onesockon
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

i didnt say i got sick i just said you could taste it, my friend and my brother was here at the time aswel, we could taste it in the air, there were no clouds at the time either, the trail just started spreading across the town and when it spread you could notice it getting lower, not so low that it was around you like fog. trust me im not talking #e im just saying what was happening when i was out there taking photos of it

Ok, I wont say youre lying any more....I apologise

The reason you probably thought it was coming lower is because it was actually spreading out or dispersing. The introduction of the trail into the air causes that air to become supersaturated, which increases the amount of water vapour in the air. That air forms ice crystals at such a height, as it is extremely cold, forming a contrail. Due to the high altitude jetstream, the trails spread out collecting water as they move and supersaturating more air and forming cloud, providing that there is enough moisture already present in the air. Thats the reason why some contrails do not last, and others do. At the time you took the pictures, there was a cold front in the area, meaning the conditions for the contrail to form and spread were ideal

Thats how I see it