Contrails, understanding why they arent chemtrails

See, this is the thing...I have posted again - and again...but people still dont watch and observe.

It does not matter if its chem trails or contrails.
Let me repeat this one basic statement.

It does not matter if its chem trails or contrails.
Im not sure if we are clear on this...but thats fine, Im sure another post will pop up about chem vs con.

That really isnt the point. Who really cares what the material is made up of?
I will tell you why.

You should be more impressed with the fact that REGARDLESS of what it is - the clouds in your sky are not natrual formations but made from airplanes.

This is the fact that most people over look as they debate if its chem trails or not.

"Oh its not chemicals in the air, just natural stuff from the airplanes...to doodly doo...back to my normal work."

What? No shock or amazement that every cloud was made up from an airplane?
See we have A.D.D. I suppose. Someone says "hey look over there" and we look and ignore the bigger pic.

Hey, it amazed me at first...
I sat and watched from my office window as a clear sky grew into clouds.
Yes, the long streaks moved and shifted...some seemed to dissipate, while others lingered, etc.

Not one cloud had formed of itself or came in naturally.

Now I saw this on more than one occasion in Atlanta...and funny it - for those saying that the international airport is there, I was just watching it here in the middle of no where Hungary (and I mean middle of no where the 'city'/village Im at) yesterday.

Its no longer a matter of wondering, its quite proven well enough.
For myself.

But here the debate is "What is in it" and thats it.

We all miss the significant fact that the clouds are man made, and then do something more obvious...affect the weather. Yeap, those clouds, no matter if they are chems or not ended up having snow. Amazing life this is.

yes we all know about cloud seeding...no conspiracy here - its on the net, and you can see the advertisers showing you the smoke coming from the back.

For those who want to argue cloud seeding isnt making clouds...fine - I still watch and see what I see.

So lets get past this and be in awe that our weather (if we watch for at least a moment) is man made created.

Then read the article on Wired about the Navys weather modification program. (go google it, just posted the other day) - People talk of 911 being an inside job, well I say New Orleans was an inside job, hows that for some of your rockers.

"Oh no, a crazy person thinking people can make hurricanes" This is funny, because anything in life if possible, those that cant dream dont get very far and are the sheep controlled. But no worries, they like it, if they didnt they would wake up.

So in a sense, we are doing dis service trying to wake people...they dont want to be wakened. Remember the movie the Matrix where Morpheus tells Neo that the minds still hooked in are dangerous as they are a part of the system...well Im not calling the sheep dangerous, but...

...in the words of Thomas Merton, "Society is like a ship, and according to the desert fathers, we all need to swim for our own lives" (...as not to get pulled down by those around us who are panicking.)

So my post are merely my own reflections not trying to convince anyone of anything...its merely bread crumbs for those who are traveling the same path to say "some else has been here to".

There is nothing I can say that you dont already know.

Peace, and enjoy the sky...no one says that man made clouds cant be fun to watch.
Hey, no a side note...remember the old paintings with airplanes (Ufos) shooting out clouds behind them. Makes you wonder how long the clouds have been primarily made this way. Maybe airplanes are older than we think.

Ah yes, far out speculation for you folks that think that we are the pinnacle of civilization and that things are exactly how your neuro chemicals translate them to be.

Its a fun life when your mind loosens up and isnt so rigid. Who cares if your right or wrong, the freedom to speculate is what its all about... and know your right despite society wanting you to believe in what it believes in ...

Funny, like science...we have 9 planets, well heck how many do we have? lol
Pluto is a planet, Pluto isnt...oh, on the BBC they just posted we may have 1000 planets on the edge of our solar system alone. Here is news.bbc.co.uk...] Link as Im sure people wont want to bother googling...and for sure there cant be 1000s in our solar system...the head sheep master didnt print it in our text books. (and what do you expect them to teach you in school? Not much, thats for sure...)

"Our old view, that the Solar System had nine planets will be supplanted by a view that there are hundreds if not thousands of planets in our Solar System," he told BBC News. - bbc check link above

so this goes with clouds made by planes...you wanna see some I watched where I live? And yes, I watched as all formed behind the streaks you see...sorry, no time lapse...go sit for yourself and watch. Its good, it will help break you from the A.D.D., "gotta do, do do" mentality forced upon us.

The old saying, "be still and no I am God" from the Bible comes to mind...the point is to be still and know...to open your mind and feel what just 'is' - something you cant do when all you are about is 'doing'.

Oh the pic from nowhere Hungary

Again, dont tell me that its not chem trails...I dont give a flys whahoolee (whatever that is) what its made of people...but if your not suprised to wake up and see that your sky is made up of man made clouds which then weather comes out of (like rain and snow) then I dont know what to say to you.

Peace

dAlen

p.s. the Navy project and China for those who are just so dang lazy to google but will dismiss my earlier comment above that such link exist.

[edit on 20-2-2008 by dAlen]

reply to post by dAlen


Absolutely love your post


I hope it doesnt get removed for being to big. Definently going to star this one

*sigh*

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
People always laugh when they are ignorant to facts.

You cannot see through that much atmosphere. When you are looking straight up at an object that is flying at 28,000 feet it is 28,000 feet away. You are not understanding at all how this works. That same aircraft at 28,000 feet to be seen at the horizon would have to be about 250 miles away. This is a mathematical fact. The human eye can only see through about 100 miles of atmosphere, this is why you do not see any stars on the horizon line also. It is all about the angle you are looking through the atmosphere.

1. We're not talking about aircraft. We're talking about the resulting contrails (which are highly visible). Clouds also form at that height, so by your logic we can't see clouds on the horizon. Not true at all.

2. What are you talking about seeing through 100 miles of atmosphere? When you see contrails whether far or near, you are no where near looking through 100 miles of atmosphere. I don't even know where you got that from. You're not even looking past the troposphere.

If you are in the United States and in the east, take a road trip one day to the west. As you approach the Rocky Mountains, low and behold, you see mountains in the far distance (well over 250 miles away) on the horizon and these mountains are much lower than 28,000 feet. By your logic we shouldn't be seeing those mountains.

This is a mathematical fact.

Mathematical fact? On what planet?
Your "math" is extremely flawed and I would like to see what equations you used to come up with what you wrote.

hahahaha hold on a second, is this thread trying to say chemtrails are really contrails and that chemtrails don't exist? LOL WOW . I live near a major airport and planes are constantly landing and taking off and I know what contrails are, they last at max 5 minutes. Then I look up towards the sun and I see multiple planes up high criss crossing spraying lines that last for hours and spread out into a fog. I see it daily. Denial is not just a river in Egypt
case closed.

Originally posted by CanadianVandal
. I live near a major airport and planes are constantly landing and taking off and I know what contrails are, they last at max 5 minutes. Then I look up towards the sun and I see multiple planes up high criss crossing spraying lines that last for hours and spread out into a fog.

Thats because planes that are just taking off aren't at the same height as the other planes. The temperature up there is below -60 degrees celsius, which is a hell of a lot cooler than where the planes are taking off from.

The environement can not sustain ice formed through sublimation (which is the transformation of liquid water to ice) until it reaches a low pressure, with low temperature and adequate humidity.

The "fog" you see is called cirrostratus....one of the major high cloud groups which is formed by the spreading of cirrus clouds

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

1. We're not talking about aircraft. We're talking about the resulting contrails (which are highly visible). Clouds also form at that height, so by your logic we can't see clouds on the horizon. Not true at all.

2. What are you talking about seeing through 100 miles of atmosphere? When you see contrails whether far or near, you are no where near looking through 100 miles of atmosphere. I don't even know where you got that from. You're not even looking past the troposphere.

Clouds that form at 28,000 feet you will not see at the horizon. Of course you can see clouds at the horizon. The clouds you see at the horizon are at a much lower altitude. Using the T.O.S equation this means they are much closer to you because of the lower altitude. You can stomp your feet and try and make me seem foolish but it will not change the math that I have provided a Government link so you can calculate it yourself.

Here is a link for that math. L.O.S. This is a radar line of sight equation. Now go look up unaided human site distance through the atmosphere, on the clearest day it is 100 miles.

My Grandchildren and the neighborhood kids can tell the difference from a contrail and a chemtrail.

Not that I am putting you down in anyway OP because I respect your imput here at ATS but...........

IMO you need to observe and if you don't see it then IMO you are denying Ignorance.

Today is a chemtrail day here in PA and the lines have already turned into white skies so tomorrow I will expect rain this is how I tell the weather here........

Chemtrails are a deflection. A way to diminish personal responsibility of the fact that contrails affect the weather and blame it on the government or the military or whoever else.

Start taking personal responsibility and stop blaming others.

Well here is a collection of many pictures taken by myself. Now to all the pro contrail people. So I have witnessed the same day same times for severral periods of time and the regular commercial flight thing doesn't add up. Go get a copy of the program called flight explorer. It will show semi real time results about commercial aircraft overhead. Guess what doesn't show up on those.

another observation about these so called "regular" flights leaving contrails. How come on the same day at the same time week to week you don't see the same flights, the same patterns. People are so unobservant. They are not regular domestic flights. Observe for yourself!


well I will be back with the pictures I had them hosted on bayimg.com, but they seem to be not there any more. no bother I will upload them somewhere tonight and show them to all.

Originally posted by BoiseWatcher
How come on the same day at the same time week to week you don't see the same flights, the same patterns. People are so unobservant. They are not regular domestic flights. Observe for yourself!

Does it rain every day? Is it sunny every day? Cloudy?

Weather patterns are not the same every day.

Originally posted by BoiseWatcher
another observation about these so called "regular" flights leaving contrails. How come on the same day at the same time week to week you don't see the same flights, the same patterns. People are so unobservant. They are not regular domestic flights. Observe for yourself!

Because you only see the flights when atmospheric conditions are ripe for contrails to form

I see aircraft on the same flight paths at the same times every day - some days they leave contrails, some days they don't. Some days the contrails are persistent, some days they are short lived.

All depends on conditions

(And remember even a jumbo jet can be difficult to see 5 miles above your head in a bright sky if it's not producing a contrail)

[edit on 20-2-2008 by Essan]

reply to post by Essan


Erm... the other possibility is that after 9/11 in its aftermath the chemtrail spraying programme was suspended as the various parties involved did not want to expose their project/projects to further scrutiny by the general public.

The study of Global Dimming is a related subject of significance.

Here ya go OZ, a patent filed in 1990 claiming that the spraying of aluminum oxide

could help to offset greenhouse gas emissions. Obviously this is a lie and the spraying

of aluminum in our atmosphere would actually increase global warming by superheating

the atmosphere. So maybe that's not just water vapor coming out after all.

Hope you enjoy,

Greydawn

whoops, here is the link
patft.uspto.gov.../50031 86&RS=PN/5003186

Oh and by the way Oz I love how you use Encyclopedia Britanicca as a source, wow

how creative.

reply to post by greydawn


Thank you for the reference link to the patent.

I recall there was also some legislation in the USA along these lines sponsored by the Texan Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison. As I remember there was quite the international gasp over that legislation proposed by the able Senator from Texas (who I suspect could be John McCain's running mate -- or perhaps Elizabeth Dole from South Carolina).

Originally posted by CanadianVandal
hahahaha

hold on a second, is this thread trying to say chemtrails are really contrails and that chemtrails don't exist? LOL WOW . I live near a major airport and planes are constantly landing and taking off and I know what contrails are, they last at max 5 minutes. Then I look up towards the sun and I see multiple planes up high criss crossing spraying lines that last for hours and spread out into a fog. I see it daily. Denial is not just a river in Egypt

case closed.

Read through this thread. And do some real research into this. As stated many times already, the atmospheric conditions determine how long a contrail lasts. There is no set time for a contrail to last. The conditions also control the size and movement of contrails.
Also, what makes you think chemicals would last longer? Especially at that height and at that temperature? And again, why would they spray chemicals that high knowing good and well it would never reach the ground?

Observe:

My Grandchildren and the neighborhood kids can tell the difference from a contrail and a chemtrail.

It's a shame you guys are indoctrinating your kids with what amounts to fear mongering crap that is based on absolutely NOTHING as such a young age. Hopefully when they're older they'll research this themselves.

...and people wonder why American kids are so behind the rest of the world....

Today is a chemtrail day here in PA and the lines have already turned into white skies so tomorrow I will expect rain this is how I tell the weather here........

You're right, today is a CONtrail day in the east. A cold front just came through yesterday. To bad a clipper is coming through so you probably won't see any.


LGM:

Clouds that form at 28,000 feet you will not see at the horizon.

Sorry but you just lost all credibility here. I'm sorry but you really don't know what you're talking about.......
We can see clouds at ANY height on the horizon.

These are cirrus clouds. These clouds are as high as clouds can form:

As you can see, seeing them at the horizon is NO problem at all.

You don't get it. We are NOT looking through the atmosphere, at least not any other layers than the troposphere, when we see clouds. Meaning, when you are looking at clouds, contrails, or whatever you are not looking much more than 10 miles up. Clouds and contrails don't form in the thermosphere buddy
Your equations have nothing to do with what we humans see from ground level.


I do agree that these contrails do affect weather. They turn normally clear days into partly cloudy ones.
And as we seen after 9/11 when there were no planes in the sky, that can affect temperature a bit. We got a little cooler during that time period. This would also confirm that contrails are water vapor as water vapor is by far the chief greenhouse gas. We wouldn't have seen any difference had it been some other chemical that had been removed.

I was never a proponent of the whole chemtrail argument until last week. Last week I have seen some stuff go on in the skies above Omaha that just dumfound me still. All I can say since no one has posted it yet is...


www.orbwar.com...

It was just a passing fancy that allowed me to stumble upon this little nook of the net. I was totally intrigued with his theories of how the WTC events REALLY went. Especially giving more credence to the no planes tv fakery argument, if anything in my opinion.

All that aside, I read the whole site top top bottom, because I HAVE seen NUMEROUS orbs over Omaha in the last 3 months. More and more so, to the point I go onto my buddie's balcony an we joke about it day after day.

Unfortunately, I don't own a camera that has not been sabotaged any more, so I don't go running around acting like a loon trying to inform a town that obviously is brainwashed and doesn't care.

But his research, theories, what ever you want to call it, IMHO is spot on. And that is coming from a Huge chemtrail skeptic. But who am I anyways.
I just wanted that site to be reviewed for the topic's sake, and let the nay sayer's start up more of the same hooplah, where as this guy goes out day in and day out and does something.... vigilantly WATCHES.


ps., I can't for the life of me remember where I heard it, but some European country came clean on chem trails yesterday if I'm not mistaken, but I CAN NOT remember anything else, I will research that.

Something I never understood about this conspiracy theory is why would the spraying be done at day time? Everyone would see the contrails and start wondering what the heck those weird clouds are...if these things had to be done in "secret", night spraying would be the way.

Anyway, I've seen some extremely doubtful and outlandish claims in Rense.com about this hypothesis...but to me, it just doesn't make sense...besides...do you know the logistics you would need for massive spraying?

Just doesn't add up...

Have a good one...

With all due respect, you are qualified to tell me what a cloud is, but being a met does not qualify you to tell me what a military organization is/might be doing.

Please read this link:
csat.au.af.mil...

and this one:
stinet.dtic.mil...

and this one:
handle.dtic.mil...

Is this proof that they are spraying the sky? No. Does your explanation prove that they are not? No.

Now, let me ask a question. After reading the first document, do you think the military has an interest in this subject? Let's see a raise of hands from all those who think they do. Then, a raise of hands saying they don't.

Does anyone see a comparison between this and the use of UFO sightings to hide top secret military craft? It does make one wonder.

Just some food for thought.