How is Killing for your God justified

Why does the Judaic God (Trinity) and the Islamic God Allah (tawhid) need their followers to kill for them?

If someone kills in the name of their God how can it be known that their God actually told them to do so?

Cybrseer

well, technically people only die when it is their time, and god already knows that ahead of time. So there's no justification needed, unless you believe someone can murder another contrary to what god's plan is.

How is Killing for your God justified

It's not.

Men wrote the Bible .. wrote all the 'holy' books.

The Religion Industry works hand in glove with State.

The Religion Industry programmes you in this or that version of 'religion'.

'Give me the child and I'll give you the man'.

In childhood, you're programmed to 'become one' with a bit of cloth with a pattern on it (national flag) ... to become one with a piece of music (national anthem) and to become one with a specific belief system ('your' religion).

They get you early. They programme you, just like tuning in a radio station or tv channel.

Your mind is wide open .. you trust those in 'authority'. You are the 'blank slate'.

Once they've programmed you, they 'own' you .. own your loyalties to flag, anthem, religion.

At any time in your future, your programming can be reactivated via sight of that flag, a playing of that anthem, an 'attack' or criticism of 'your' religion.

Watch people's reaction when 'their' flag is flown and 'their' anthem is played. 6'5" football players begin weeping or embarassedly swiping away tears.

Ramp up their 'patriotism' by telling people 'their' flag and 'their' anthem and 'their' nation and 'their' religion is under threat or attack ... and they'll dash to the fore in eagerness to fight and lay down their lives to save that bit of cloth, piece of music or their 'brand' of religion.

Cannon fodder.

State and the Religion Industry tell these programmed sheep that they are 'heroes' and 'patriots' and 'doing God's Work / Will ' and 'fighting for what they believe'.

Amazingly .. few people actually question 'what' they believe in ... just 'how' and 'when' they came to believe in it.

Because we rarely realise, as children, that we're being programmed.

Once we're programmed of course, we obey the call to 'defend our beliefs' like robots.

Been going on for so long. And in addition to being 'programmed', the programming is very often reinforced by our parents and grandparents who received identical programming .. and often died as result. We are assured they were 'heroes' and are left in no doubt that should State and the Religion Industry want us to die to make them richer and more powerful .. then we should become 'heroes' too.

Rather than actually think about it ... or admit they've been programmed and are really no more than robots .. people become irate if you question any of it, and call you a traitor, etc. etc.

'How is killing for your God justified'.

Again .. it's not.

The day you see with your own eyes God sitting down and writing a book of instructions with his own hand ... then you'll have something you CAN believe. If you happen to respect that God, of course.

But to date, all we have are 'holy books' written by men who claim it is 'the word of God'. Well of course they claim that. They want to use you.

Just because an alleged 'holy book ' is two or ten thousand years old doesn't make it any more valid than something written ten minutes ago.

Most 'holy books' are actually political tracts written by those who claim God told them to write this or do that. Spin. Spin has been around as long as mankind.

Gee, it's not difficult to see through these 'holy books', is it? Doesnt'require a Rhodes scholar. Page 45, the books claims that God demands we do not kill. Page 62, the books claiming God told this or that tribe to slay everyong in a certain town.

Guess they had short attention spans thousands of years ago, just like now.

You'll also notice that it's the 'robots', the programmed ones, the sheepies, who do all the dying in these wars. Not the national leaders. Not the heads of the Religion Industry either. Nope .. once they've programmed the baby sheep, the leaders and Religion Industry sit back and play both sides against the middle whilst growing richer and more powerful.

When was the last time you saw the Pope duking it out with the alleged 'enemies of God' ?

When was the last time you saw a President or Prime Minister physically leading the charge ?

Never ? Never ? Lol, you're right. Never.

So next time they wave a bit of patterned cloth at you, or play a sorrowful rendition of a national anthem, or scream at you that Evil Doers are threatening your nation, your life, your god ... take yourself in hand and remind yourself that the tears behind your eyelids are simply your programming in action .. are trying to turn you into a murdering and suicidal robot-sheep. Then walk away and get on with your life. There will be other wars. You won't have missed anything you couldn't live without. In fact, you and your life will be far better for the fact you were strong enough to resist the foul programming and mind-control to which you were subjected, without your knowledge or permission, in early childhood.

You believe God wants to to rape, pillage, burn, shoot, maim or murder ?

You don't believe that.

If you do, you're fighting for the wrong god.

Originally posted by Dock6
God wants to to rape, pillage, burn, shoot, maim or murder ?

I don't think god has wants in the same way as humans. For instance, what's the ultimate difference between drowning in a flood, or drowning via the hands of a murderer? Neither of the deaths should catch god off-guard.

[edit on 17-2-2008 by scientist]

genesis 9:6 G-D says:whoso sheddeth man's blood ,by man shall his blood be shed:for in the image of G-D made He man.

exodus 17:8 the amalek's attack israel----moses was talking with G-D on a daily basis so would assume that He told moses to have joshua fight using swords against amalek the next day.

after moses call by G-D and then the miracles of the 10 plagues ,the miracle of the sea being parted to let israel thru and then return to destroy the army of egypt (the greatest power on earth at that time),the miracle of bitter water made drinkable at marah ,the miracle of manna,the miracle of G-D using moses to bring water out of the rock at horeb/massah/meribah--------then amalek attacks.

surely by this point israel must have realized moses wasn't lying to them in telling them from G-D's mouth to counter-attack amalek with the edge of the sword?

on the other hand for someone to presume to murder another human on their own volition---G-D says the murderer is to be put to death(exodus 21:12)

killing the enemy to win a war and murder are two different subjects.

Whoa. My God does not need me to kill anyone for Him. In fact, He says whoever sheds another person's blood will have to give an account for their actions. My God is not impotent nor does He need me to go around slaughtering people in His name. And if I'm deluded enough to believe such a thing, then it will be my knees that are wobbling on judgment day for doing such a thing. Jesus commanded us to do just the opposite: turn the other cheek and love our enemies as ourself.

reply to post by cybrseer


Murder for any reason is not justified, no matter what kind of religious spin someone can put on it.

The Israelis and Palestinians are shooting it out right now. Neither is right. Neither is behaving 'Godly.'

To think that one side is right and the other is wrong is ignorant and preposterous.

In war, there are no right and wrong sides. Only losers.



Dock6,

Great post. I have nothing more to add.




yahn goodey,

God does not tell people to kill others. Simply biased and untrue.

If God is "Love" there would be no reason for man to kill one another for "him" (I don't view God as male/female, but that's another story).

A God that wants people to kill one another is not a Holy Divinity, but a DEVIL.

[edit on 2/17/2008 by biggie smalls]

i am sure most of us have a bible and yours would say the same as mine----read the scriptures i quoted-----and--- the G-D of the old covenant is the same G-D Being as the One that became the human Messiah(john 1:1-11) and the same One that will slaughter the army of 200 million(revelation9:16 & zechariah 14:12 & authorizes His angel to slaughter more of His enemies of (revelation 14:18-20)a lake of blood 200 miles long and as deep as up to a horse bridle.

just as revelation 16:6-7 says:these have poured the blood out of the saints and prophets-----yes O Lord G-D , The Almighty ,true and righteous are your judgments.

if this is the way Messiah knows best how to deal with those that make themselves G-D's enemies i'm not going to argue with My Maker or try to get in the way.

I don't follow the bible. In my opinion, it was written by men. Many men in fact.

The bible has been edited countless times to forward a particular agenda.

Thank you for your scriptures, but I don't believe in them, so your argument doesn't really work for me.

Bible=Man

God=Not man

Thou Shalt Not Kill
Exodus 20:13 - Deuteronomy 5:17
The exact Hebrew wording of this biblical phrase is lo tirtzack which accurately translates as "any kind of killing whatsoever."
'Thou shalt not kill any living thing,' for life is given to all by God, and that which God has given, let not man taketh it away. ~Jesus, Gospel of the Holy Twelve, (earliest known recorded words of Jesus)

"Thou shalt not kill." ~Exodus 20:13 Authorized version of King James

"You shall not murder." ~New International Version

The Creator has no need of humans to kill for him. Some humans merely need
a reasoning to justify their sickening desires. A being that could create everything from nothing hardly needs a human to kill for Him. It is like us expecting a flea to go kill the neighbor, rediculous.

The Jews are Gods chosen people in the Bible and that's what most all of the religious killing is about. They have been conquered repeatedly throughout history by the Egyptians, Babylonians, Romans etc. They were driven off their homeland over and over, it's really what the whole Old Testament is about.

After the Romans dispersed them in aprox 70 AD they spread throughout Europe. Adolf Hitler tried to wipe them out. Yet still they became a Nation again in 1967. They must have divine favor.

God's "chosen" people?

Isn't that a bit presumptuous to claim yourself as chosen by God?

NO group of people, racial, religious, social, or otherwise is chosen.

We think we're all special in God's eyes, but truth be told, we're all EQUAL.

Israel became a nation in 1948 due to Western intervention. God did not intervene and they certainly don't have divine favor.

reply to post by AshleyD


Ashley, question. Dunno if you've answered it before. But.. if Christians dismiss the Old Testament... Why keep it in the book? Couldn't you just chop it down to the geneologies and a few prophecies or something, and leave out the whole "We worship genocide" aspect? It's a little odd that on one hand Christians base their beliefs and outlook on life on the bible... and then claim the first half "doesn't count" if it ever becomes inconvenient.

reply to post by Bigwhammy




No. European and American nations want Jesus to return so he can kill off all the Jews and give the Christians eternal bliss. TO do this EVERY JEW IN THE WORLD needs to live in Israel. So these nations - Britain and the US in particular - pressed for creation of Israel in 1948 (get your facts straight) to hasten hte second coming.

Divine favor my ass.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


I think clearly the Jews wanted the land for themselves. And sorry 1948 is wrong the 6 day war was 1967.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


The state of Israel was created in 48. Whether or not the Six Day war happened in 67 is irrelevant.

The Israelis were already living there for 20 odd years before that time.

reply to whitewash:

the 2 witnesses of revelation 11---G-D's servants that contend with the beast and false prophet at jerusalem for 3 1/2 years.

they kill anyone that wants to harm them( verse 5 and if anyone wants to harm them ,fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies;so if anyone wants to harm them,he must be killed in this way.)

yet after they are murdered and left for 3 1/2 days as dead corpses for G-D's enemies to rejoice over,they are resurrected back to life again and rise to meet the Lord in the air.(revelation 11:12).

you are wrong-- killing and murder can be 2 different things. killing enemies of G-D when authorized by the Same is not wrong otherwise the 2 witnesses would remain dead for 1000 years waiting to be judged(revelation 20:7/12)

reply to post by yahn goodey


Again with the bible quotes, geez...

Who decides the 'enemies of God?' Those who interpret the bible?

God did not write the bible. He/she/it is not a human being who takes notes on how we should behave/act.

We have our own moral compass or should anyway. I sure don't need a few thousand year old book to tell me murdering someone is a 'bad' thing.

"Um...You're an enemy of God and now I have permission to kill you."

That sounds like murder to me. No amount of religious propaganda can spin it otherwise.

There are occassions when killing another human being is justifiable. For example, if you kill another person to protect yourself and others and there is no other way under the circumstances to protect yourself or others other than to kill the person, the killing is justified.

Unfortunately organized religions expand and distort the circumstances under which killing is justified. They seem to equate killing to protect the peculiar interests of the religion will killing to protect innocent people from an imminent harm. Religions also seem to overlook the fact that violence is not the only solution to to their perceived problems. For example, if a religion feels threatened by "secular" culture that promotes "immorality," it does not necessarily need to use violence to stave off the "secular" culture. The religion can stave off the "secular" culture by producing its own "acceptable" movies, television shows, and music to rival those of the "secular" culture. It can speak out against "secular" culture and convince people not to buy into it.

This tactic has had some success in America where Christian groups have created and marketed their own music. "Christian" music groups like POD and Jars of Clay have had a gread deal of success.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


If you have the means to kill a person, then you have the means to stop them without killing them. I find it impossibly hard to justify killing... It's easy enough to sympathize with the impulse, but justification is a different thing.