How is Killing for your God justified

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Bigwhammy

 

No. But the present state of Israel is. See, you're the reason there's such a damn big problem over there.

Oh I am the reason?

A definite contributor, yes. If you beleive that people are "God's chosen" by virtue of being Jewish, and thus have divine right to whatever hte hell they want, well, I can't see how that's a single bit different than declaring that white people have inherent god-given rights over black people because of Noah's curse upon Ham. The end result is the same. "God's favored people" always seem to enjoy exploiting, oppressing, and killing off whoever around htem is "unchosen".

Sorry but the preceding 5000 years of surviving genocidal warfare kind of weigh a little heavier on what you are saying about the present day. WWII wasn't that long ago and 1948 as you so aptly pointed out was a direct result. The Allies could have just as easily lost that war and Hitler was certainly determined to exterminate them. Guess what we won the war. That could not be a "manipulation" by Christians. That my dearest WalkingFox is Divine Providence.

Divine Providence would have prevented five thousand years of genocide - from all sides. Don't you think?

Oh. Right. Favored people. Maybe I'll convert so you'll justify my every wrong as being one of God's Chosen...

reply to post by biggie smalls


You said you don't know what I was talking about so let me clarify exactly what I'm saying.I gave you a reason to believe the Bible was truly inspired outside of linear time.All the divisible by seven stuff is found in the Genealogy(family tree) described in a few versus of the bible(I suggest you all go back and reread my post).Try making up your own family tree (genealogy)that fits all those requirements listed.There are thousands of anomalies like this found in the bible.I think people see religion and its corruption and jump to conclusions on the bible because they never truly search it out for themselves to find these types of anomalies against a gazillion billion odds of "by chance".I will get back on topic just hear me out for the record so I'm clear on where I stand. I hate religion but live in a world view that we are trapped by fallen angels in linear time and it pissed off the creator enough to manifest himself as a person to open a doorway to the eternal realm for us.And I personally have found the judeo-christian God to be Jesus Christ and he is exactly who he says he is.Just so I'm clear on my worldview.

And back on original topic.
I would like to add the all the killing in the bible was about Genetics as others have stated. There is so much depth to the bible but from what I have experience one can not see certain concepts without having believed upon Jesus and receiving his Spirit inside yours


[edit on 18-2-2008 by firegoggles]

reply to post by firegoggles


So killing for genetic reasons is a good thing? A justifiable "need"?

If so, then why do we not have statues to those goose steppers from Germany?

reply to post by Dock6



In four years, this will be my first & only one liner - Damn fine post.

I don't care if you laugh. But when the Jews were taking over the promised land, God told the Jews to kill every man woman and child - . The caanites, gibbortes, phillistines etc. It was because those people were not human. Literally not human . In Genesis 6 Fallen Angels fathered genetic mutant children - the Nephilim - many of them were giants, like Goliath that David slew. This is the reason for the flood - Gen 6 says Noah was spared because he was perfect in his generations (DNA) - but it happened again after the flood. These Nephilim and Fallen Angels are where most of the worlds mythology and pagan Gods come from. The Book of Enoch has a lot more detail than the Bible cannon, but there's plenty in the Bible to justify this belief. So if a race of human eating giants were around, I'd kill them, no problem. This only applies to very Old Testament, through the book of Joshua or so. I am totally serious

I also believe it is happening again today. That's why I am interested in the UFO phenomenon.

reply to post by kyred

Having not read the other posts, I'd just like to say that the Judaic God is not a trinity. That's a Christian concept. Meanwhile, I'll hold other comments until I read further.

You are absolutely correct. I sincerely apologize for this error. It appears I hastily left out a few words I had intended to include.

The post should have read as follows:

Why does the Judaic God (Monotheistic) or the Christian God (Trinity) and the Islamic God Allah (tawhid) need their followers to kill for them?

Cybrseer

reply to post by Dock6


A SUPERB post Dock6. Shame it's not required reading at every school in every country

I hope some moderator lavishes you with a round of applause and a few extra points. Thoroughly deserved

From: Cybrseer
To: All


I sincerely apologize for this error. It appears I hastily left out a few words I had intended to include.

The post should have read as follows:

Why does the Judaic God (Monotheistic) or the Christian God (Trinity) and the Islamic God Allah (tawhid) need their followers to kill for them?

Cybrseer

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
I don't care if you laugh. But when the Jews were taking over the promised land, God told the Jews to kill every man woman and child - . The caanites, gibbortes, phillistines etc. It was because those people were not human. Literally not human . In Genesis 6 Fallen Angels fathered genetic mutant children - the Nephilim - many of them were giants, like Goliath that David slew. This is the reason for the flood - Gen 6 says Noah was spared because he was perfect in his generations (DNA) - but it happened again after the flood. These Nephilim and Fallen Angels are where most of the worlds mythology and pagan Gods come from. The Book of Enoch has a lot more detail than the Bible cannon, but there's plenty in the Bible to justify this belief. So if a race of human eating giants were around, I'd kill them, no problem. This only applies to very Old Testament, through the book of Joshua or so. I am totally serious

I also believe it is happening again today. That's why I am interested in the UFO phenomenon.

Ah, so god wants the jews to commit genocide on god's behalf because of tainted non-human genes... interesting.

God has the power to solve the problem anytime, anywhere (as has shown before) would rather have his/her/it's choosen people do this... is it a test of loyalty, to give the choosen people experience in killing god's enemies or is it something else?

God's will? I wonder if there will be a repeat of this in our modern times...

[edit on 18-2-2008 by ixiy]

reply to post by Dock6

Well written Dock6.

But no programming here, I grew up agnostic - studied science - played in Rock bands - used to argue against religion.

Became a Christian at age 37 - against my programming. The God of the Bible is real. No one programed me - God found me in spite of myself.

reply to post by ixiy


Wild stuff -- I know.

Well he took care of it with the flood the first time. But that took out everything else, so I guess conventional warfare made sense.

It was exactly that a test of their loyalty! When they sent spies into the promised land they saw Giants and the Jews were afraid to fight. That is the reason they had to wander in the desert for 40 years. Because they wouldn't fight them. The spies they sent into the promised land said they felt like grasshioppers when they saw the Nephilim - who were like 12 feet tall - and ate human flesh. (book of numbers) They were chicken so they wandered 40 years until that generation of the Jews all died. Then Joshua led them in and they fought them and won.

Jesus said near the end of days it would be "As in the days of Noah" i.e. the Nephilim. I think the modern version is ongoing. Alien abductions have the reproductive element -- they're doing it again -- making hybrids like Gen 6 -- I don't think we've seen them yet. But somethings going on with DNA in the abduction phenom. First they'll claim to be ETs here to help us - then set themselves up as Gods-

Just my take on it.





[edit on 2/18/2008 by Bigwhammy]

[edit on 2/18/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Killing for your god is justified, because those religions that are prepared to kill followers of other religions will become much more common than those which preach pacifism.

This is a kind of natural selction for religions. A religion becomes popular by removing its competitor religions either by:

a. Converting their followers.

b. Killing their followers.

Hence the largest religions will invariably be able to justify violence and killing non-believers as part of their doctrine. The Old Testament exists in its current form because it was written by the most militarily successful people of the time, that they attributed the slaughter they wreaked to the support of their god enabled them to continue to carve a bloody swathe across the land without guilt.

reply to post by biggie smalls


where do you get the impression from that i condemn others by my quoting scripture ? as far as judging goes scripture does say that G-D is judging the living saints right now and determining their reward for when Messiah comes.

yes some that aren't saints will be judged later.

and i take it that you also think that i am a war monger? no such thing----i agree with king david when he says:too long has my soul had its dwelling with those who hate peace.i am for peace ,but when i speak ,they are for war.(psalm 120:6-7)

the new testament says there is war because:james 4:1-2 from where come wars and fightings among you? come they not because of your lusts that war in your members?you lust ,and have not :you kill, and desire to have,and cannot obtain;so you fight and war,yet you have not because you ask not and when you ask you don't receive because you ask for what is not lawful that you may consume it upon your lusts.

such is the case in the middle east with muslims extremists coveting after G-D's land that He has given to israel to dwell in--------- no one else.

reply to post by WhiteWash


to the best of my recollection there are 29 different hebrew words that mean to kill.

murder is ratsach usually and harag occasionally.the penalty for murder ratsach is supposed to be by the scriptures death muwth.

the word used most often for killing in a war is nakah

and the 2 most common words for killing an animal are shachat and tabach.

there is nothing wrong with killing a clean animal to eat it------the teaching of some churches that eating meat is wrong is called a doctrine of demons by paul (i timothy 4:1-4)

To back up my story a bit - this is who the Jews were killing to take the promised land.

Numbers 13:32-33

And they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, "The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size. We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."

so when "man" was give free will, this was only a illusion, and god is making us kill each other. well, that's news to me. "man" is evil, no mather what religion one follows. (just me rambling incoherently)

no one had anything more to say about this, just ignore my previous post and continue discussing.

reply to post by darkspace

so when "man" was give free will, this was only a illusion,

I think volumns could be written about 'free will' in the context of religion and still the debate would rage on.

That might be a good title for a new thread 'Free Will'.

and god is making us kill each other. well, that's news to me.

I am not certain that "God is making us kill each other", but I am sure that mankind is making us kill each other.

"man" is evil, no mather what religion one follows. (just me rambling incoherently)

I would suggest that well intentioned men have strived to construct a system by which we can prosper and expand, but unfortunately evil men
have hijacked most of what we call religion.

9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

9If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.